Air New Zealand Air Points - Is Airpoints the most "hostile" airlines loyalty program?

Ok hostile may be too strong a word but I feel it really is one of the most flyer-unfriendly programs for frequent or casual flyers.

I got my membership pack today courtesy of NZ's "Slice It" campaign. So I was hooked by their membership waiver - I've flown NZ many times and I was pretty impressed by the opposite of generosity (what's the word for it?) of Airpoints, so I've been putting my miles to UA and BD and have benefited from them tremendously, mostly in NZ J!

So I thought ok now I could join Airpoints for free, I might earn some non-flying points here and there and keep me more motivated to buy NZ tickets over the likes of EK and QF.

Surprise! I just found there was a $30 "account maintenance" fee, waived if you have a Global Plus credit card or fly NZ once a year. I know I know that it's easy to fly NZ once a year, but I don't want to when I HAVE to, to keep that fee away. The idea of account maintenance fee is plain absurd - unlike credit cards which annual fees give me travel insurance and cashback (I love National Bank's Gold Thoroughbred - even better than NB's Platinum I say), what a fudge do I get from Airpoints? The elite benefits are really earned and widely available from competitors at much lower cost. I understand that airlines cancel the miles/points/account after a period of inactivity, but charging people to be actively loyal to it? People who do pay $30 (or the kindly reduced rate of $20) are being screwed forwards, backwards and downwards.

I also signed my uncle up for the Slice it campaign. He's flown NZ domestically like twice in the last 10 years, and when he does travel there're many alternatives like EK, QF to Australia, and CX, SQ... to Asia. Casual flyers won't take NZ because they want to keep their frequent flyer account, and value-driven/cheapskate frequent flyers like me won't put miles in NZ if the program is so poor. For example the grand total of Airpoints retail partner is......

ONE! :D

And the Airpoints Retail Oscar goes to.....

DFS Galleria!!:rolleyes:

I can't think of any other airlines loyalty program in the WORLD that charges an enrolment fee, a bloody yearly account fee, and having an "exclusive" partner in retail. I mean there are some really bad programs out there (Eva Airways of Taiwan for instance), but NZ is in the league of its own.

I would like to have some comments from FTers on the purpose/effectiveness/direction of Airpoints - does Air NZ want to make $$ out of Airpoints? If so they should have way more partners and be creative with the availability of points - dining, shopping, etc. I think it won't deflate the points because the redemption requirement (on NZ metal at least) is constantly changing, and NZ won't bulk sell points like UA to Chase or DL to Amex, which devalues their miles.

This brings one off-topic: I think NZ consumers are used to be fleeced by the corporates here that they think fleecing is the norm - for example Westpac and ASB charge their credit card users to enrol in their reward programs. What a fudge - I have to pay to be rewarded for MY business?

I realise NZ is small and there is a lack of competition. But the lack of RESISTANCE to the status quo is what really hurts NZ consumers. Look at grocery shopping - 90%+ of kiwis go to either Foodstuffs or Progresive. If there were even 10% more to shop at local vege, fruit shops, butchers, etc that would keep the Big Two more honest. Same with credit cards, if more kiwis realise that compared to Aussies we are paying more to get less, and stop using them or look out for the best deal more often, then banks will better their offers.

I am going to return my uncle's and my Airpoints membership packs to the same Slice It P O Box - I just couldn't see myself using the program, given its severely limited earning options, and buck for buck, much better returns from other programs, even QF included.

As a dissappointed soon-to-be ex-Airpoints member, and an indirect shareholder of Air NZ (whose biggest shareholder is NZ Govt), I am going to write to Anita Hawthorne, Manager of Airpoints, to express my opinions on the state of the program - it could do a lot better to get a win-win for the company and consumers.

Cheers

milehighclubnz

I think the annual fee is a good idea. Someone who can't even fly one paid flight a year is not a loyal member, and costs the scheme money.

Perhaps sacriligeous to say this on FT, but loyalty is a two-way street.


Disclaimer - I'm not a NZ apologist. I do agree the program is mean. However I do like the idea of no fly annual fee.

I just found there was a $30 "account maintenance" fee, waived if you ... fly NZ once a year... I understand that airlines cancel the miles/points/account after a period of inactivity, but charging people to be actively loyal to it?
I'm somewhat interested in your definition of "actively".

Look at grocery shopping - 90%+ of kiwis go to either Foodstuffs or Progresive. If there were even 10% more to shop at local vege, fruit shops, butchers, etc ...
:rolleyes: Please don't confuse 'Aucklanders' with 'Kiwis'.

I would like to have some comments from FTers on the purpose/effectiveness/direction of Airpoints
I feel it really is one of the most flyer-unfriendly programs for frequent or casual flyers
Well, you've got that part right. I don't think Air NZ make too many apologies for aiming their FF programme at high value FFers, and that frequent Y travellers and casual flyers are simply not their target audience. Is that mean? Probably. Does the consumer have alternatives? Absolutely ...

Good thread though. About time we had some fighting talk here ^

DFS Galleria!!:rolleyes:

I can't think of any other airlines loyalty program in the WORLD that charges an enrolment fee, a bloody yearly account fee, and having an "exclusive" partner in retail. I mean there are some really bad programs out there (Eva Airways of Taiwan for instance), but NZ is in the league of its own.


I realise NZ is small and there is a lack of competition. But the lack of RESISTANCE to the status quo is what really hurts NZ consumers. Look at grocery shopping - 90%+ of kiwis go to either Foodstuffs or Progresive. If there were even 10% more to shop at local vege, fruit shops, butchers, etc that would keep the Big Two more honest...


The Qantas scheme has always charged an enrolment fee, though there is a free membership promotion for NZ residents at present.

DFS is a pretty good partner for an airline - I tend not to carry my NZ airpoints card except when travelling with NZ, so its nice that its always available when going through the DFS checkout. No points earning on tobacco anymore though. Contrast with BAA worldpoints where you have to remember the card, and then convert worldpoints to BD or BA miles...

Also, which other retail chains would Air NZ sign up with? Like you say, 90%+ shop with Progressive or Foodstuffs, and they already have their own loyalty programmes - Foodtown card and Fly Buys. Smith & Caughey? Kirkcaldies? Neither of them appear to want to track customer spend terribly... and none of them are particularly travel-related.

I think the annual fee is a good idea. Someone who can't even fly one paid flight a year is not a loyal member, and costs the scheme money.

Perhaps sacriligeous to say this on FT, but loyalty is a two-way street.


Disclaimer - I'm not a NZ apologist. I do agree the program is mean. However I do like the idea of no fly annual fee.

I say 99% of the population are loyal and nice AFTER they receive the loyalty/nice gestures from the other party, especially in a commercial setting. Airpoints is not Krisflyer PPS, which targets a VIP crowd. Airpoints is a general loyalty program that tries to maintain existing customer base and enlarges the company revenue and encroach competitors market share (as evident in the Slice It campaign). How does it get more people interested, and therefore generate more revenue, by saying "$50 to join us please, and you pay $20 if you DON'T fly us".

I mean customers can contribute revenue apart from flying, because for many fliers, NZ's program/pricing/product aren't the best option and why would I choose NZ if I could get better deals elsewhere unless I am stuck outside the main trunk routes? NZ could capitalise on its local advantages to generate revenue other carriers can't or won't, more on this later. Also I do fly NZ, I just don't want to put my miles with them.

On a sidenote, I've found better carriers in the Star Alliance (excluding minor or unfamiliar ones like TAP Portugal and South African) usually have worse loyalty programs do they not? SQ, NZ and maybe TG sprint to mind, where their services and products are way better than their FF, while AC, UA and US have better FF than their products. I don't think it has to be one way or another.

Credit/account expiry is a free and effective control to weed out non revenue generating customers and keep the admin costs in control. Trying to make $20 out of it is greedy, pissing people off and a pity tactic.


I'm somewhat interested in your definition of "actively".

I don't think Air NZ make too many apologies for aiming their FF programme at high value FFers, and that frequent Y travellers and casual flyers are simply not their target audience. Is that mean? Probably. Does the consumer have alternatives? Absolutely

NZ needn't make apologies for aiming at high value FFers, but it doesn't need to punish low value FFers (such as myself) or casual flyers either. High value FFers who are loyal to NZ for patriotic/corporate/whatever reason will stay with NZ anyway, and for that matter they don't have to join Airpoints to be high value to them, if you meant by business premier-paying pax. I know that if I were high value I still wouldn't join Airpoints with the current offerings because others like BD, OZ and even LH and QF get me more goodies than NZ does.

I can be active in participating Airpoints without flying IF such opportunities count. I can put my hotel stays in Airpoints for example, but they don't count to waive the $30 annual fee, whereas with many other airlines they do, and they charge nothing to begin with. I WANT to convert my Fly Buys points to Airpoints, I HAVE to have a Global Plus card. No chance given the current benefits offered by BNZ or Amex in NZ, and the simple straightforward alternative by National's Thoroughbred. 1% return on spending is the benchmark and not many NZ cards give you that, and Thoroughbred is truly 1% cash, unless you spend NZ$50000+ a year on it which the cashback is capped. By the way I don't work for ANZ/National, I just use the best value credit card out there and it happens to be Gold Thoroughbred.

Why do Fly Buys and Global Plus have to go hand in hand to earn Airpoints $? Does BNZ have a stake in Fly Buys (and loan/finance arrangement with Air NZ)?

I also disagree that consumer have alternatives - NZ enjoys monopoly in provincial markets and I attribute that to small population and non-existent rail network. Compared to Asia, Europe and North America, non-flying activities are non-existent. I blame this on the NZ public less experienced/educated about choices/competition available elsewhere and Air NZ content to have its FF just being a FF, not a potentially much more profitable marketing and revenue generating machine that it could be. More on this later.


The Qantas scheme has always charged an enrolment fee, though there is a free membership promotion for NZ residents at present.

DFS is a pretty good partner for an airline - I tend not to carry my NZ airpoints card except when travelling with NZ, so its nice that its always available when going through the DFS checkout. No points earning on tobacco anymore though. Contrast with BAA worldpoints where you have to remember the card, and then convert worldpoints to BD or BA miles...

Also, which other retail chains would Air NZ sign up with? Like you say, 90%+ shop with Progressive or Foodstuffs, and they already have their own loyalty programmes - Foodtown card and Fly Buys. Smith & Caughey? Kirkcaldies? Neither of them appear to want to track customer spend terribly... and none of them are particularly travel-related.

QF is also a co-defendant with NZ on ripping off new FFers, make no mistake. These two (and CX's Marco Polo Club, which is separate from Asia Miles though) are the only programs I am aware off that charge customers to be interested to frequently fly with them.

Had NZ had its sights higher Fly Buys wouldn't have existed - Airpoints could have been like AA's AAdvantage or UA's Mileage Plus, a wide array of retail and other partners. Even now NZ still has ample opportunities to generate more revenue, work with NZ businesses and us NZ consumers can benefit. Dining for example, restaurants and even joints like Burger King (which used to be in Fly Buys) would probably have higher turnover if they offered incentives like Airpoint Dollars, and they and Air NZ could offset liabilities by offering meal vouchers/discounts.

A loyalty program doesn't have to be travel-related. You just have a foundation/cornerstone/marquee company that launches and supports the currency, then expand from there. I think AC's Aeroplan, CX's Asia Miles and even LH's Miles & More are good examples of this.

Speaking of tracking spends, I think most NZ businesses just aren't fired up to beat their competition - I mean in the US you have Barnes & Nobles vs Borders vs Amazon, KMart vs Target, T Mobile vs AT&T, Adidas vs Nike....
each of those participates in multiple airline loyalty programs (although most of them are done online). My point is that they don't settle for status quo, they want to beat their competitors and gain marketshare/revenue as much as they can, even though in many cases they probably don't need to or have marginal impacts. I know NZ is small but that's not an excuse, especially for companies which rely more on discretionary spending and not in cosy duopoly like Vodafone-Telecom and Foodstuff-Progressive

I think Air NZ, and many other businesses, chronically think small and discover/adapt to competitive/innovative practices too little too late. Had NZ had better business model/financial arrangements or even started Freedom Air/LCC early in Australia, Ansett would have stilled stayed and there wouldn't be Virgin Blue and its sisters, not as big as they are today anyway.

The fact that QF, NZ and NZ banks that charge customers to be loyal and have the ABILITY to earn rewards for so long astonishes me. Sheep are being fleeced for so long that they now are happy to queue up and ready to get naked.

Why doesn't NZ fly to South America? I hear that Lan Chile, and even Qantas do a brisk trade on Santiago and Buenos Aires routes. And after them we just have the lousy Aerolineas Argentinas - I think passengers on both sides of the South Pacific deserve better and will pay to have a Star airline to run this route.

NZ can really can the Beijing route and move the aircraft to fly to Argentina/Brazil where they can even get transit traffic from Star partners from Europe.

NZ could be a great transit point bridging Asia and South America, but the lack of routes and the introduction of transit visa killed it.

NZ needn't make apologies for aiming at high value FFers, but it doesn't need to punish low value FFers (such as myself) or casual flyers either.

You could write to Airpoints as I have done but I imagine that you would only get an answer like "we can't change the program to the satisfaction of all members." And now they have one more reason they can use which is the ability to earn Status Points even on grabaseat fares. You can't really argue that this is for high value flyers, can you?

Unlike most other carriers, NZ sees loyalty programs as liabilities rather than assets. Even though you can purchase any seat available on sale, you are burning Airpoints at a much faster rate, ie decreasing their liabilty quicker. Most people can't be bothered to go into this depth and think Airpoints ia brilliant. That's why Airpoints is still receiving some most innovative program awarded by some magazine. Mathmatically, members are not better off. I believe Airpoints rules are written by accounting firms like PwC which makes sure NZ is always the winner.

I can live with the annual fee but I can't stand the fees charged to book a Star Alliance awards. There is no option to book this online and why the hell can't they put this in the redemption rates. $100 per booking is a rip off. Is there many programs out there that charge you fee for a reward? Rewards are meant to be free.

1% return on spending is the benchmark and not many NZ cards give you that, and Thoroughbred is truly 1% cash, unless you spend NZ$50000+ a year on it which the cashback is capped.

GlobalPlus Gold Amex gives you the best value so far. 1 Airpoints Dollar per $66.67 spent. I believe BNZ was the co-founder of FlyBuys.

You could write to Airpoints as I have done but I imagine that you would only get an answer like "we can't change the program to the satisfaction of all members." And now they have one more reason they can use which is the ability to earn Status Points even on grabaseat fares. You can't really argue that this is for high value flyers, can you?

Unlike most other carriers, NZ sees loyalty programs as liabilities rather than assets. Even though you can purchase any seat available on sale, you are burning Airpoints at a much faster rate, ie decreasing their liabilty quicker. Most people can't be bothered to go into this depth and think Airpoints ia brilliant. That's why Airpoints is still receiving some most innovative program awarded by some magazine. Mathmatically, members are not better off. I believe Airpoints rules are written by accounting firms like PwC which makes sure NZ is always the winner.

I can live with the annual fee but I can't stand the fees charged to book a Star Alliance awards. There is no option to book this online and why the hell can't they put this in the redemption rates. $100 per booking is a rip off. Is there many programs out there that charge you fee for a reward? Rewards are meant to be free.



GlobalPlus Gold Amex gives you the best value so far. 1 Airpoints Dollar per $66.67 spent. I believe BNZ was the co-founder of FlyBuys.

I am going to write to Angela Hawthrone, the Manager of Airpoints when I return my membership pack (pretty temped to "Slice It" :D but that would be rude) with a copy to Rob Fyfe (yeah I know it's a long shot that he'll read it, but doesn't hurt trying)

Earning Status Points (or EQM in US lingo) on the cheapest fares is nothing to brag about. I say the existing "high value" flyers fly NZ not for the value of the Airpoints program, but for its quality services and other reasons. They pay for the tickets but they aren't necessarily Airpoints members - what Air NZ should do is to generate more revenue from those flyers by offering more opportunities and working with non-travel partners (eg retail, dining, etc), to get the $ flyers would have otherwise spent with a competitor. For example one pays for his travel on Air NZ, but credit his miles to bmi (therefore bmi gets to earn the potential revenue such as redemption fees, sale of miles, shopping portal rebates from sellers, etc), and worse uses ANZ Qantas card for his purchases, instead of BNZ Global Plus because he thinks Airpoints is crab. :)

What magazines gave Airpoints awards for innovation? Cosmo or TV Guide? :)

Yowza $100 booking fee for Star Alliance awards? Is that for urgent ticketing (less than a week prior to departure or so)? Foreign airlines do charge a booking fee, but usually for urgent ticketing and changes.

Global Plus Gold Amex is only good if you are a user of Airpoints - I don't think Airpoints Dollars are worth as much as cash. If Airpoints were even like QF's program then I would have ranked it higher or on par with National's Gold Thoroughbred, but at the moment it's not worth it.

Speaking of FF programs and airlines, I wasn't a big fan of United Airlines before I knew more about and joined Mileage Plus. A good loyalty program does change purchase behaviour - before my Mileage Plus days I was with Thai - I flew NZ, TG, SQ and LH the most and I knew TG's program was better than the other two. UA never came across my mind until I learned the art of Frequent Flyer Programs. So I flew more and more with UA instead of SQ and LH on Asia-US and US-Europe, even though UA's soft and hard products were, and still are, inferior to SQ and LH.

I think UA's treated me fairly well, with 100% bonus miles on UA metal, domestic upgrades and award tickets on NZ, TG, NH business class tickets.
I've given UA a good portion of my flight budget to fly Australia-US, Asia-US and US-Europe, often on the expense of NZ and SQ's. I am not a "high value" flyer by any means, but I do believe some extra business is better than no business at all.

Cheers

Interesting diatribe.

But were you aware that at the 2009 Loyalty Awards Air New Zealand won the award for the airline industry's most innovative frequent flier programme and that "Air New Zealand was chosen by the 250 delegates at the event as the most outstanding loyalty programme."

The Loyalty Awards are organised by Airline Business and Global Flight and recognise the airline industry's best frequent flier programmes.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/airline-business/2009/02/air-new-zealand-grabs-the-spot.html

Just goes to show, different strokes for different folks!!!

I'm very happy with Airpoints.

I hit Gold Elite each year by flying typically one trip in BP to the USA,one in BP to the UK and one in BC to Tahiti, and so do my wife and kids.

And this allows us two long-haul upgrades each year,which we apply to a full Economy fare to HNL for a family holiday.

The program is designed to reward high-value passengers like us and to drive away people like the OP who aren't loyal passengers and who want rewards even though they deliver no custom to the airline. Fine by me.

I quite like the NZ airpoints program. For me a couple of decent long-haul trips in Business a year keeps me at gold status (great for lounge access etc for frequent short-haul and domestic flights in economy). Yes, the earning rate isn't great but I can 'spend' them on whichever flights I like (usually grab-a-seat) which is a lot more convenient than most airpoints programmes.

As others have mentioned I also don't have an issue with an annual fee if you don't fly on NZ. If you don't fly they still have the cost structure associated with the membership but aren't making revenue unless you've paid to sit in one of their seats :)

Slightly OT but seen as it was mentioned twice - I'm not sure that NZ/OZ banks are all that into ripping people off. Yes they charge fees for things that aren't charged in other countries but they also don't charge for many things that people pay for overseas (eg home loan applications). I think also if you compare the cash rates in both countries to the rates they charge for residential mortgage rates the margin is much smaller than some other countries. In the US for example (FFR 0.25% and average mortgage rate of just under 5%) compared with NZ's OCR of 3% and floating mortgages around 6.5%.

Love the thread though, gets you thinking about what NZ could do better!

Interesting diatribe.

But were you aware that at the 2009 Loyalty Awards Air New Zealand won the award for the airline industry's most innovative frequent flier programme and that "Air New Zealand was chosen by the 250 delegates at the event as the most outstanding loyalty programme."

The Loyalty Awards are organised by Airline Business and Global Flight and recognise the airline industry's best frequent flier programmes.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/airline-business/2009/02/air-new-zealand-grabs-the-spot.html

Just goes to show, different strokes for different folks!!!

Air NZ was awarded for their use of technologies, not for the overall program excellence.

"Air New Zealand's Airpoints loyalty programme combines the creative use of mobile and web technology to radically enhance its customer experience,"

and Global Flight, one of the judges and co-sponsors of this feel-good awards, works more on operational issues and for the management, not on the big picture/strategic focus and for other stakeholders:

"Privately owned and acting independently of any suppliers, the company can fully focus on delivering value at the critical management level of loyalty issues rather than upselling other products or services."

In fact of all the judges, perhaps apart from the guy from Air France/KLM, weren't really that representative of the airline industry. And how did they get someone from Mexicana (nothing against it, but it wasn't a major player on a global scale)?

I am happy that Air NZ/Airpoints are using technologies to help the flyers and the company, but speaking of the value overall Airpoints program, this is really style than substance. If you poll 250 FTers here I doubt it will win the most innovative or anything at all. Look at the FT survey on Airpoints I see a lot Cs and Ds - even our legendary Kiwi Flyer didn't have a high opinion of Airpoints. Again the airline is great, but the airline's FF program isn't.



I'm very happy with Airpoints.

I hit Gold Elite each year by flying typically one trip in BP to the USA,one in BP to the UK and one in BC to Tahiti, and so do my wife and kids.

And this allows us two long-haul upgrades each year,which we apply to a full Economy fare to HNL for a family holiday.

The program is designed to reward high-value passengers like us and to drive away people like the OP who aren't loyal passengers and who want rewards even though they deliver no custom to the airline. Fine by me.

DCF, if you are happy with Airpoints, great, enjoy it. But you could be even happier if you put your miles with bmi, Air Canada or even Lufthansa instead of Air NZ - you didn't even need to buy an economy fare to get an upgrade; bmi's miles would get you business class tickets, and one roundtrip from NZ to UK in J would get you Star Alliance gold with Air Canada - with both you fly NZ, the only difference is that you put miles with Diamond Club or Aeroplan instead of Airpoints.

Supporting local/national airline doesn't mean you have to support its frequent flyer program.

And you misunderstood my points -

"The program is designed to reward high-value passengers like us and to drive away people like the OP who aren't loyal passengers and who want rewards even though they deliver no custom to the airline"

Quite opposite - I say the current Airpoint program drives away more high-value passengers than it retains/attracts. And your "us" vs "them" mentality is not what I had in mind nor what the program is about. It's about "We", the airline customers, the New Zealand public who are stakeholders of the company.

I deliver custom to NZ by flying them instead of QF/DJ/EK and I can deliver more if Airpoints provide more earning opportunities (just look at Virgin Blue Velocity's retail partners vs NZ's. One could earn DJ points with purchase of iTunes!), I just choose not to put my miles with Airpoints. I earn my rewards like everyone else, and I started this thread not because I thought I didn't get enough rewards from NZ - I thought there weren't enough opportunities and too many restrictions to EARN rewards, and that puts NZ to a competitive disadvantage compared to DJ and QF for example.

Again it doesn't have to be high value flyers vs not high value flyers - a good program can cater to, and generate revenue from both market segments. The elite benefits will always be there and one has to earn them; somehow I feel you want to keep the pie small to your benefits but don't really care how the company does over the long run with its loyalty management strategies.

You are fortunate to be able to fly long haul business class, and can transfer awards, have no annual fees..etc. But most of the flying public is not, and Air NZ is not an exclusive airline by any means, The fact that it is majority-owned by the NZ government is more of a reason that its loyalty and other policies should be more inclusive, at least to flyers based in NZ. Being more inclusive does not mean being less profitable, in fact I think it's the opposite. I am not a socialist (quite far from it), I am just looking at things from CSR, competition,financial and consumer perspectives instead of purely administrative/operational viewpoint.

Air NZ has a lot of good stuff going for it, and I like it for its products and services. I just think that Airpoints could do much better - both Air NZ and consumers can gain.

Cheers

My flying depends on the project I am on, one year it could be all to Asia, the next to the US.

Going from MEL to KL or BKK, is hard on Air NZ, so for a year, I don't fly on Air NZ. I send all of my business class points to Air NZ, but have to pay $30, because I haven't flown on one Air NZ flight?

I am the high value client they want, whenever I go home for christmas, the family of 4 fly business class. I fly 200,000Kms a year in business. Yet what's the point of sending non Air NZ flights to airpoints if for one year, they want to charge me $30. So I send my points to Lufthansa or SQ, and the year I do fly across the pacific a lot, I fly on United instead of Air NZ, as I get 25% extra LH miles on UA.

My wife & children are enrolled in Asiana's scheme, as if we want to go to Thailand in business for a holiday, that year they won't fly on Air NZ so would all be up for a $30 charge. If we could all be in Air NZ, I would work harder at flying Air NZ, to use my points for upgrades for family members.

I make Gold Elite every 2nd or 3rd year, if something that just happened (family related) hadn't of just happened, I would consider letting Air NZ airpoints fade away and just send my points to LH or SQ, but I will be doing weekend trips to NZ every couple of months for this year, so will keep it awhile longer.

Overall - I think the Airpoints scheme sucks, and would much prefer Ansett's Golden Wings. Damnit - lost 250,000 points when they went bang. Somethings you never forget.

Another satisfied customer

I started off on BMI's Diamond Club, but i went back to Air NZ as you accrue status points too and i've found with my trans-tasman flying its usually the cheap fares. I'll reach Silver faster on Air NZ and with myairnz and the epass its kind of better for choosing seats etc with KC.

Is Airpoints the most "hostile" airlines loyalty program?

In one word - YES.

I am one of their high value clients, and I think there program is bl**dy awful.

so you don't even have to stump up cash....and can use to book any NZ flights you like. think it's a great scheme but you are paying up for the flexibility - I keep my BMI DC for the value (and credit card earnings) and the wife/kids on NZ for the flexibility (and fly SQ long haul, NZ short haul)... it works! If NZ showed more long haul availability on 12 month notice then would love to fly more NZ , but for now SQ will do, even if have to now go via Europe when flying UK-NZ (whole family in J class annually)

Airpoints sucks....haven't bothered with it for a while now, as my UA is much better on earn/burn....

As for the awards that the program gets, I worked in the past for a large business magazine in Europe....throw enough advertising money around them, and you get an award....funny that....

The result is that I actively avoid AirNZ and sometimes go to great lengths to do so because their loyalty program sucks and I get far better bonuses, etc...on OW carriers through AA...

All we can do is spread the word to everyone who is not on the boards in the hope that enough people defect to other *A programs or drop their business from AirNZ entirely...it is the only way that AirNZ will get the message.

While the debate is good, I think that it is rather pointless....AirNZ is not going to change the program, as it works in their favour and they almost have a monopoly on many routes...further, if they were inclined to improve the program, there have been many threads complaining about it here and on other sites for the past couple of years....


(in the interests of full disclosure, I have a couple of friends who work for AirNZ in the customer services and loyalty area....and they simply don't get it and never will...)

Airpoints sucks....haven't bothered with it for a while now, as my UA is much better on earn/burn....

As for the awards that the program gets, I worked in the past for a large business magazine in Europe....throw enough advertising money around them, and you get an award....funny that....

The result is that I actively avoid AirNZ and sometimes go to great lengths to do so because their loyalty program sucks and I get far better bonuses, etc...on OW carriers through AA...

All we can do is spread the word to everyone who is not on the boards in the hope that enough people defect to other *A programs or drop their business from AirNZ entirely...it is the only way that AirNZ will get the message.

While the debate is good, I think that it is rather pointless....AirNZ is not going to change the program, as it works in their favour and they almost have a monopoly on many routes...further, if they were inclined to improve the program, there have been many threads complaining about it here and on other sites for the past couple of years....


(in the interests of full disclosure, I have a couple of friends who work for AirNZ in the customer services and loyalty area....and they simply don't get it and never will...)

I say Airpoints is working AGAINST Air NZ - its current exclusive, petty penny charging setup puts a lot of people off. The IDEA that people should pay to be in the program EVERY year is absurd. Payment in Airpoint Dollars or real NZ$ doesn't matter - Air NZ could simply set the validity of Airpoint Dollars to expire after a finite period or period of inactivity.

Defecting to other carriers or Star programs won't make Airpoints better - I say people who are educated enough already in other programs like UA, BD, OZ, etc. Air NZ is missing a lot of potentially easy and sustainable revenue such as retail, credit cards, dining, etc. It's kind of a vicious cycle - because the program is bad, so there aren't many partners and members joining, and there aren't more opportunities for redemption.

Stuff like magazine subscription, restaurant vouchers will entice companies to become Airpoint partners and consumers more inclined to use Airpoints/fly Air NZ. It's a win-win. Unfortunately people at Air NZ, well at Airpoints at least, have no incentives to expand the program because they aren't getting , er, rewarded properly I suspect.

It will take people at the Board level to understand how valuable a good loyalty program can be, not just a "frequent flyer" program but a revenue-generating department.

Payment in Airpoint Dollars or real NZ$ doesn't matter - Air NZ could simply set the validity of Airpoint Dollars to expire after a finite period or period of inactivity.
They already do expire for non-Elite members, after 3 years.
It will take people at the Board level to understand how valuable a good loyalty program can be, not just a "frequent flyer" program but a revenue-generating department.
I suspect you are correct, but for the "customers NZ wants", Airpoints is functional. I understand there are quite a few Kiwi Flyer-esque customers earning 3000+ Airbucks a year (and much, much more) by flying. Those guys tend to like NZ's program for whatever reason.

I find most, erm, cost-conscious NZ people, either aren't interested in FFPs or they use QF. If they do use NZ, it's because they're likely to redeem for grabaseat or discount Y domestic or Tasman awards.

The IDEA that people should pay to be in the program EVERY year is absurd. Payment in Airpoint Dollars or real NZ$ doesn't matter - Air NZ could simply set the validity of Airpoint Dollars to expire after a finite period or period of inactivity.


Absurd?! There is no charge to BE IN the programme, there is a charge if you are inactive. By being inactive those customers are not generating any income for the airline, and have clearly lost interest: not sure what the big problem with that is. I believe airpoints dollars do expire if you do not maintain status.


...and there aren't more opportunities for redemption.


Seats on any Air NZ flights for the member or family, upgrades on Air NZ flights, seats on 21 other good airlines via Star Alliance, Koru membership, car rentals: I'm not sure where your stated lack of redemption opportunities is.



Stuff like magazine subscription, restaurant vouchers will entice companies to become Airpoint partners and consumers more inclined to use Airpoints/fly Air NZ. It's a win-win.
It will take people at the Board level to understand how valuable a good loyalty program can be, not just a "frequent flyer" program but a revenue-generating department.


We can all purchase magazine subscriptions or get unrestricted restaurant vouchers (from an ATM..) far cheaper than via any type of loyalty programme... completely pointless and poor value.

I'll repeat my point from a few posts back - Air NZ Airpoints is a travel loyalty programme: they should and do focus on their core business of earning and burning on travel related spend. Leave the large, costly, messy end of the market to Nectar, Fly Buys, Tesco, and the like. What benefit would the airline gain from knowing which brand of rice we buy at the supermarket, or whether we renew household insurance in March or September?

I expect Airpoints is already a good revenue generator for the airline -- primarily because a far greater number of *A members from other airlines redeem on NZ flights than NZ members on *A flights (partly as a result of the uncompetitive burning levels of course) thus they will receive a cash payout from the other airlines for the value of those seats.

Stuff like magazine subscription, restaurant vouchers will entice companies to become Airpoint partners and consumers more inclined to use Airpoints/fly Air NZ.My bolding.

Bollocks, basically.

Most people don't know a FFP from pi. And many who do know FFPs still fly Air NZ precisely because they appreciate the service level, or schedule, or price - a point you noted about yourself.

So, yes - of course AirPoints is far from the best FFP out there, but it's not the AirPoints programme that drives most NZ customers' flying behaviour.

Still a good thread though. Is "Devil's Advocacy" one of the magazines you subscribe to with the partner miles you earn elsewhere?

I quit Airpoints about 3 years ago and had very little in it....it is not worth bothering with when there are better *A FFP opportunities out there and SQ to fly when I need to take a *A carrier....their FFP lost them 99.9% of my business...even for redemption...

Seats on any Air NZ flights for the member or family, upgrades on Air NZ flights, seats on 21 other good airlines via Star Alliance, Koru membership, car rentals: I'm not sure where your stated lack of redemption opportunities is.

I am not sure if you are aware of the $100 cash you have to pay when you book a Star Alliance award ticket. Taking into account the already expensive redemption rates, yes, I would say the program lacks redemption opportunities.

Anyway, the following 2 links have expanded the earning opportunities a little bit. Once again, Airpoints has done a terrible job in letting people know where to collect points from and the correct earning rate. No mention on their website.

Stays at Choice Hotels worldwide now accrue Airpoints.

http://www.choicehotels.com/ires/en-US/html/AirlineMiles?sid=u8Vn.O0nhSg05M.11

Snap Printing has joined Airpoints and become the 2nd retail partner.

http://www.snapprinting.co.nz/NR/exeres/EE2D09A7-22E8-4261-9B58-E4A54B8EB7BD.htm

Oooooooh.....Snap Printing....now that IS a game changer...:rolleyes:

I am not sure if you are aware of the $100 cash you have to pay when you book a Star Alliance award ticket. Taking into account the already expensive redemption rates, yes, I would say the program lacks redemption opportunities.


Sure - I'm aware of (and mentioned in my post) that airpoints provides very poor value for *A redemptions -- however there is no lack of opportunities just a lot of poorly priced opportunities. Award pricing didn't seem to be the OP's main concern.

The brilliant thing about Star Alliance is that we can chooses from many FFP to join based on our preferences. I use the NZ one for the comp and other upgrades, for taking a guest into regional koru lounges and sometimes for grabaseat domestic flights. I know airpoints provides poor value though so put the bulk of my *A flying to a programme that provides better value for redemptions. (and also has very few retail partners..)

I quit Airpoints about 3 years ago and had very little in it....it is not worth bothering with when there are better *A FFP opportunities out there and SQ to fly when I need to take a *A carrier....their FFP lost them 99.9% of my business...even for redemption...
This thread started off as a bit of a rant about annual fees, dragged in the lack of retail partners as representative of New Zealand society at large, and made some other interesting observations around AirPoints not being effective for casual flyers or cash-conscious frequent flyers in captive markets.

In the meantime you've alluded to the benefits to you of programmes offered by UA, OW/AA, and SQ, which just makes me think about exceptions to every rule. i.e. If you're a regular premium cabin passenger between NZ and Europe, with a high degreee of discretion about who you fly with and on what routes, then AirPoints may well be missing the mark with you.

So be it I guess.

1. Currently there's no joining fee, but historically there has been a $50 fee - QF and NZ were the only FFPs in the world that CHARGE local (AU/NZ) customers to be loyal to them, as far as I know.

2. An inactive fee won't get Air NZ more business - one could simply ignore it, cancel the membership and use another FFP with Star partners, or quit flying Air NZ. It's not like accounts payable where companies lose money on unpaid debt; any business is good business in this economy.

Many other airlines in the world require just ANY activity to keep the account and/or credit. Air NZ makes money by selling Airpoints (and people redeeming it) to retail and other partners, it's not like people get their points for doing nothing.

3. My observation of "lack" of redemption opportunities is in relative, eg compared to other FFPs. Even Virgin Blue and Qantas have more opportunities.

stewardo, you miss the points of loyalty programs - it's about customer retention and revenue generation. The loyalty programs are extremely valuable if it's well run - in the US these programs are worth more than the airlines themselves! Aeroplan of Air Canada is a publicly listed company, separate from Air Canada and I believe Qantas is doing the same with its FFP.

Revenue generation is more important than ever in this economy we are in. Focusing on your core products is great, but when no one is buying even though your product and your price are good, you've got to find other sources of revenue.

Airlines don't and shouldn't know what you mentioned - what products consumers buy or what insurance you choose - airlines make money of FFPs by printing currency (miles/points) and selling them to partners and ultimately consumers, and as a marketing portal (especially so in large markets like the US) to recruit and retain buyers. Airline's record of your frequency, spend, destination of flying, among other information, are very valuable for companies and marketing agencies. Airlines themselves don't do the market search work - they just supply the data to anyone who's interested to pay for it.

There's no "large, costly and messy" end of the market - it either works or it doesn't. FFPs are a proven revenue generators, and in some markets, a necessary competitive tool, eg Southwest's Rapid Returns.

Airpoints may already be working well for Air NZ, but I say it can work much better - your example of other FFPs give Air NZ money for the award tickets is exactly that. If Airpoints's earn/burn rate and the overall program are on par with say AC or UA, NZ/AU-based flyers will be using Airpoints and flying NZ instead of other partner programs.

NZ makes better margin on award travel if it internalizes the costs and customer base - I say NZ is potentially underselling their award seats to their partners vs potential revenue absorption from the would be AP members.

For example UA charges 100K miles for an Asia-Aus/NZ C ticket. The norm of the value is US$0.01/mile, so I essentially "pay" US$1000 to UA, and I say UA probably gets the ticket from NZ for less than 1c/mile. In competing routes such as LAX-LHR, UA doesn't even allow redemptions on NZ C because it can absorb the revenue/liability itself.

I understand you want to keep things simple and so on. My point is that Airpoints can be a even bigger revenue generator for NZ, nothing against NZ or AP supporters who are enjoying the benefits.


kiwibigdave, oops how did you find out I subscribed to Devil's Advocacy with my CO miles? Not a bad mag at all, bi-monthly issues tell you all the devilish stuff you need to know;)

I disagree with you:

1. Loyalty program does alter purchase behaviours - not so in NZ-monopoly domestic routes, but for international ex-AKL and domestic trunk routes, I say FFP does impact on purchase decisions, along with price, service and schedule.

2. Lack of retail partners has nothing to do with NZ society. QF and DJ have more partners than NZ (heck anyone can have more than NZ when NZ's got 1!), in New Zealand. Also NZ shouldn't think itself just a NZ company - its flights may be NZ-focused but its marketing and revenue activities don't have to be all-NZ centric. NZ can sign up heaps of Aussie partners and to enlarge its revenue and flyer base in Australia. I guess NZ is being very cautious after Ansett...

If you're a regular premium cabin passenger between NZ and Europe, with a high degreee of discretion about who you fly with and on what routes, then AirPoints may well be missing the mark with you.

3. I think you are one of the FTers who would like to see Airpoints to be "exclusive" and "Us vs Them". Airpoints isn't a high-end nightclub one wants to splash the cash and hang out with only the beautiful people and thinks all the rest can bugger off to other places.

Air NZ doesn't belong to a private entity, is owned by NZ Govt/public, and should be increasing overall revenue, not only revenue from "premium" passengers. Revenue from prem passengers is piece, not the whole of a pie.
There's no conflict of interests by making the program more inclusive. QF does it, DJ does it, most decent and profitable FFP do.

If you are really "premium", you will be flying your own jet, have partial ownership of a jet, or buy hours to fly on a private jet. In those cases they won't care FFPs, airlines, recession or a lot else in the world.

On a purely financial basis, you and other premium/regular NZ-Europe Business Premier passengers are much better off if you put miles in other Star programs. Why bother with upgrades when you can get a whole J ticket a lot faster/cheaper with AC/BD/UA and alike. With Star Gold you can take a guest in most lounges anyway.

You still pay to NZ, have your bum on NZ, the only difference is where the miles go to, and NZ can make even more $$ if Airpoints lift their game so flyers switch back from Star partners to AP, and you won't suffer loss in benefits because ones like me who grab NZ J seats from AC/BD/UA miles are already doing it anyway - doesn't make redemption/upgrade any harder.

if I am correct, I say most of the CURRENT NZ Airpoints "supporters" are from regional NZ, where competition is less if not non existent, or extremely patriotic. Is it a fair comment?

I hope nothing but the best for Air NZ and every FTer here, whether you agree/disagree with me. I just think that Airpoints can do much better, both Air NZ and flyers, premium or not, can benefit from an enlarged/more inclusive program.

Cheers to all

I've got to say milehighclubnz, your post count might not be too high right now - around 185 as I write this - but your wordcount in this thread alone probably breaks all kinds of records!

Anyway, you write to stewardo "you miss the points of loyalty programs - it's about customer retention and revenue generation".

Whataloadofoldcobblers. Customer retention and revenue generation are issues requiring some lead action - maybe schmoozing or discounting. Loyalty programmes - especially FFPs - are lag measures. The customer pays for their reward long before they get to see it.

In the specific case of FFPs, loyalty programmes are about rewarding those customers who provide regular valuable business. As a customer you could be regular and valuable e.g. the truly frequent corporate J pax. Or you could be irregular and valuable e.g. the once-a-year retired leisure J pax (and maybe AKLDUBFlyer because of flying patterns?). Or you could be regular and provide no real value e.g. the student grabaseater. And finally you could be irregular and provide little value e.g. you by the sound of it.

For the first, the AirPoints programme might not be the best FFP out there, but what the customer doesn't know probably won't hurt them. For the second, NZ probably has a captive audience for the retired leisure pax but probably misses a trick with respect to the knowledgable flyer with a discretionary spend. And for the the last two NZ could probably care less.

I'm very happy with Airpoints.

I hit Gold Elite each year by flying typically one trip in BP to the USA,one in BP to the UK and one in BC to Tahiti, and so do my wife and kids.

And this allows us two long-haul upgrades each year,which we apply to a full Economy fare to HNL for a family holiday.

The program is designed to reward high-value passengers like us and to drive away people like the OP who aren't loyal passengers and who want rewards even though they deliver no custom to the airline. Fine by me.

Is that you koruman, the flying profile and kids who are gold elite members is the tipoff. I don't believe the above statement, you are constantly critising NZ and it's airpoints program, I particule I remember you were especially outraged when they cancelled childrens fares in BP.

If you aren't koruman I apologise.

I think it really depends on your flying pattern and what you want out of it.

Although I agree with many of the arguments about lack of earning partners, being a US citizen who flies between the USA and NZ fairly regularly, I have noticed a couple things.

I still find AP an easier program to get UG's from Y to J and have had a good success rate, thanks to ExpertFlyer's website. This has saved me thousands of dollars. With UA MP, this was not really possible. I tend to prefer to use my miles/APD for upgrades, rather than outright buy award tix.

There are so many earning partners here in the USA, that I wonder if it dilutes the intrinsic value of miles? Or perhaps maybe I just suffering marketing fatigue from every airline, company, retail store having their own special programs, frequent cards, etc!

That being said, I do find UA much easier for my USA-Asia travel options, and I don't frequent Europe, so my needs are vastly different from others I presume.

I'm with Randy... there is no ONE answer.. it is way too subjective...

I also use my A$ for upgrades... exclusively... and (even without EF's assistance :D) I have an excellent success rate...

I mainly travel SYD-LAX.. and given the other options that have traditionally been available (QF/UA) I found NZ more comfortable and a better experience all round (YMMV!!!) even before getting some status and building up a goodly store of A$....

They "got" me initially with their Y product...;)

For long haul flights, that can be credited to *A FFP, I would never put them to NZ Airpoints.
For domestic flights, which is the bulk of my *A flying at the moment, I would credit them to NZ as the actual miles are just so low that you can get a better redemption rate with NZ.
I too believe that Airpoints is jst not working for NZ, they can bring in extra revenue but they just do not have the right earning partners.

I felt the same. In the last three or four month there are a few people I know, who have already gave up their NZ's airpoints and swapped to some other airlines' program. For me, I fly NZ a lot both internally and externally.However, all my points go to Aeroplan, now I'm a AC Elite but I have never been on AC at all. All my ASB credit card points I use them for shopping, which works really well for me (otherwise I have to pay $10 to convert them to NZ's Airpoint dollars). At end of the day, airlines are businesses,they are here to make money rather than give people free upgrades and free plane tickets but different airlines do things differently.

This isn't strictly on-topic but relates to NZ pricing and I raised it in a thread some time ago. I got my comp Gold Elite card from "slice it" and have QF WP status through to June 2010. So, having 3 business class flights to HKG coming up, I thought I might as well give NZ a go and had a look at prices on NZ, QF and CX. The flights are at various times over the coming 3 months and I have a bit of flexibility as to dates. NZ prices are at least NZ$600 more than QF and $1,000 more than CX. On some dates they are $3,000 more than CX. With those differentials they're certainly not going to attract my business and I won't have to worry about how to accrue or spend Airpoints.

Again not strictly on-topic but does anyone know what the economics of points are from the various airlines 'point' (no-pun intended) of view.

I use SQ Krisflyer as my * alliance programme. When I fly on NZ and accrue points to SQ does NZ pay SQ for reflected loyalty/causing SQ a liability? If so does anyone know how much? If not, how does it work?

I use SQ Krisflyer as my * alliance programme. When I fly on NZ and accrue points to SQ does NZ pay SQ for reflected loyalty/causing SQ a liability? If so does anyone know how much? If not, how does it work?

Yes, and the calculation and amount is a commercial secret between airlines.

Dear Kiwi Flyer,

Thanks for the info.

I suspect NZ might make money from other airlines overall. * alliance members in US using miles to fly across the Pacific, whilst I suspect most NZ Card holders would use Airpoints to redeem on NZ.

This is an interesting thread.

I'm just about to submit my QF WP status (good until end of Feb next year) to get a comp to NZ AP GE through the SliceIt promotion. Personally, I was only attracted because of *A GLD status attached to GE (plus there appear to be a couple of other side benefits), and if the status came "for free" then why not. I highly doubt BD are about to give me a comp, given the M+M transitional climate, even if they do have the most lax administrative checks systems in the world.

But would I ever credit to Airpoints to earn Airpoints? Probably not in my life.

Whilst I have no experience as to what would be the most optimal *A program to use for my patterns of flying (which unfortunately consists mainly of a lot of domestic AU flying, some TT and limited NZ domestic and long-haul), I've had a quick squizz at the AP system and I think it is too difficult to get reasonable redemptions on AP unless you fly premium (or flexible). Despite QF withdrawing Jetconnect off the NZ domestic network, at least before Red e-Deals garner 1000 points, whereas a similarly priced NZ Smart Saver garners nothing (except status). Of course, blowing 8000 QFF points for a domestic flight in NZ is a crime in itself, but 8000 points is still better than 0 AP dollars. (I've probably shot myself in the foot there with the cost benefit analysis, but anyway.....)

Of course, let's do some analysis. I would mostly only fly on Smart Savers (otherwise I'd rather fly a different carrier) on Trans-Tasman - let alone NZ domestic - none of those earn AP let alone any credits of sorts on any other *A FFP, so they're essentially moot. Since I live in AU, maintaining NZ status is pretty difficult unless I visited the seventh state pretty often, or flew long haul on *A. If I lived in NZ I'd find it stupidly difficult to maintain QF status unless I visited the "west island" regularly and did status runs there (or visited the other big island to the east and did KUPP/YUPP runs). NZ probably makes a more logical choice then for NZ residents, but as seen there are other *A programs that seem to fit the bill better (no pun intended). As it stands, my elite status is with QF and the oneworld alliance, and maintaining that with my current flying record is pretty difficult enough as it is without needing to balance off another FFP.

It would also be nice if NZ had a First equivalent lounge, e.g. for GEs only, similar to the QF F Lounge :p (The access credentials would be similar to LH F lounges, where only F pax and HONs are allowed, but since NZ has no F, it would only be for GEs). That might sway me to give more traffic. :p:p:D

EDIT: And wouldn't you know it - I've repeated half the stuff that's in the main NZ AP forum sticky. :rolleyes: :o

GE and HON are hardly comparable status levels.

HON is much harder to get for a start, particularly if you 'live' in NZ.

As a dissappointed soon-to-be ex-Airpoints member, and an indirect shareholder of Air NZ (whose biggest shareholder is NZ Govt), I am going to write to Anita Hawthorne, Manager of Airpoints, to express my opinions on the state of the program - it could do a lot better to get a win-win for the company and consumers.
milehighclubnz

So are you a former Airpoints member yet - or are you still looking for as many loopholes as humanly possible?
And what did this Anita Hawthorne have to say for it all?
What you seem to be forgetting is that it is not $20 or $30 coming out of your pocket, it's a fee that's deducted from your account for failing to agree to it's terms in the first place, and rightfully so.
It seems that had you realised there was an annual account fee prior to joining, you wouldn't have gone to all the trouble in the first place.
Is it the fact that you've joined, received your pack, then discovered this terrifying annual account fee, leaving you feeling somewhat bamboozled?

It's all pretty simple - fly and earn or invest your time and efforts elsewhere.
In saying all this, your letters clogging up the inbox of Anita and poor ol' Robbie may not be in vain.....like they say - the squeaky wheel always get's the oil.