American Express Membership Rewards - Do you wish Amex would work out a deal with American Airlines???

One of my biggest disappointments with Amex is their lack of a relationship with American Airlines. American has one of the largest frequent flyer programs in the country. Amex is a leader in having a valuable customer base. Obviously there has been some type of business breakdown. But I wish they could work it out. I sadly accumulated a significant number of reward points on my Amex card before I figured out it was not a smart move. I had to switch to a Starwood Amex to get the AA miles. The conversion of Amex rewards to Starwood is too painful at 3:1. I rarely use my Amex gold card as a consequence. In this economy it is probably less likely for them to work out a deal. Am I the only one who wishes they could settle their differences? :confused:

You are aware AA offers an AMEX card?

I am aware of the American Airlines Amex. I do carry an AA Citibank MC for those merchants not accepting Amex. Given the 1.25 Starwood conversion to AA miles, what would be the advantage of carrying an AA Amex?

I am aware of the American Airlines Amex. I do carry an AA Citibank MC for those merchants not accepting Amex. Given the 1.25 Starwood conversion to AA miles, what would be the advantage of carrying an AA Amex?

If it's AA miles you're after and given the 1.25 Starwood conversion to AA miles, what would be the advantage of Amex having a relationship with AA?

The problem is that I used my Amex Gold for too long before converting to the Starwood Amex. I have accumulated 425,000 membership reward points. I would really like to convert these to AA miles but there is not an efficient way of doing this without significantly devaluating the points.

For those of us in Oz we would love it if Amex the ability to direct transfer to AA at a reasonable rate.

Via SPG is costly.

Living in Oz we cannot get the AA Amex.

I am also surprised that AMEX does not seem to be aware that their poor Membership Rewards options these days (at least with respect to airline conversion) is so bad that, literally, like the OP, I *avoid* using my AMEX CENT because I don't want the lousy MR points. Now that's a huge miss on the part of AMEX.

I am taking a cruise in a few months and could have converted MR points "to cash equivalent" and paid for it w/ MR points....conversion rate is so lousy I chose to pay the cash (more confirmation of AMEX's MR poor point conversion to non-airline awards).

Bottom line - I hold over 1MM MR points...make very little use of them, and avoid using my CENTURION AMEX card as well. What a mess.

Cards I do make active use of ? Sam's Club Discover (a GE product) which offers 2% true cashback w/ a cap at 1MM spend a year (nothing like it sportsfans, though few seem aware of it) and then the SPG AMEX serves as my backup "go to" card and affinity.

AMEX / Hilton's new SURPASS will be a major player each yr for my first $40K in spend to maintain HHONORS Diamond, then back to Discover for that incredible 2% cash rebate.

It is a specific hope of mine that starwood will model after Hiltons initiative of top elite status being earned by "X" spend on their affinity card (ie the primary reason I immediately migrated to SURPASS when it became available).

Well, this is somewhat well worn ground as it comes up often in some form or another.

Do I wish Amex and AA had a MR transfer relationship? Sure. I can't imagine too many folks on FT that are both AA fliers as well as Amex cardholders that wouldn't wish that to be true.

However, "if wishes were ponies..."

Regards

I am also surprised that AMEX does not seem to be aware that their poor Membership Rewards options these days (at least with respect to airline conversion) is so bad that, literally, like the OP, I *avoid* using my AMEX CENT because I don't want the lousy MR points. Really? :confused: I thought there were plenty of mileage transfer options, certainly enough that you have your choice of several airlines in both the Star and Skyteam alliances, so you can somehow redeem for free tickets on the majority of major airlines out there. OneWorld is an obvious hole, but I think that's always been the case.

now we can convert the MR points to BA miles in the UK, this might be a sign that AA will be on board as well? hopefully!

Tour best bet might be to use MX - they will hold award seats for you on AA (for up to 2 weeks if asked) while you effect a transfer (which usually takes up to 5 days).

The only downside is that if booking international business tickets - the domestic leg is booked in Y (if F they charge F for the entire itinerary).

I too had 400,000+ MR points that never got used. Living in NJ, either the CO flights were too cheap to redeem points or if they were long haul, you could not get standard rewards. Switched to Starwood AMEX but those MR points sat and sat.

Two years ago we went to Spain on Air France and used 400,000 of those points for AF First Class - kind of a "what the hell" moment! It was truly a once in a lifetime experience that we will never forget.

Since then the rules have changed and you have to be AF Elite to use the double rewards for Business or First.

So my advice is to keep looking for something outrageous and - what the hell!

now we can convert the MR points to BA miles in the UK, this might be a sign that AA will be on board as well? hopefully!

Very, very, very unlikely. BA and AA are more apart/different than together/same when it comes to their FF programs.

Thanks for all the useful suggestions. My major goal is to get the points transferred so they result in the maximal number of AA miles that count towards lifetime status. If I could do better than just converting the points to Starwood at 3:1, I'd be able to make lifetime gold this year.

I might be way off here, but... wouldn't Amex's close relationship with Delta pretty much mean AA stays out in the cold?

I might be way off here, but... wouldn't Amex's close relationship with Delta pretty much mean AA stays out in the cold?I do not think so. That doesn't preclude AX from having relationships with many other carriers.

The issue is more on the AA side and their relationship with Citi, similar to UA/Chase. I'd bet that there is an exclusivity clause in there somewhere.

I wish I could transfer MR to AA 1:1. I would become a lifetime AA elite overnight! (I regret that I didn't learn about SPG AMEX 5 years ago!)

The Admirals Club tie in was a step in the right direction, no?

I agree that the Admirals Club tie-in may a step in the right direction. Still that was a number of months ago. A lot of companies are cautious these days given the general state of the economy. It is certainly not a time for bold moves. Amex has truly suffered in this recession. I suspect they would be less likely to take on any increased cost to their program. If anything they have cut back on benefits.

One of the reasons I cancelled my AMEX rewards accounts

I cancelled my MR card after they dropped the "always double miles" categories for good. Even after it was technically dropped, they still offered promotions that gave double miles. Once those dried up, I waited for a bonus on transfers to Delta and then moved them all out.

conversion) is so bad that, literally, like the OP, I *avoid* using my AMEX CENT because I don't want the lousy MR points. Now that's a huge miss on the part of AMEX.

Bottom line - I hold over 1MM MR points...make very little use of them, and avoid using my CENTURION AMEX card as well. What a mess.
.

Why pay over 2000$ a year to keep the MR? you can pay 125$ with a Gold card and keep the points. You can always convert to FB, ANA, SQ, Alaska and use them up in 6-8 good tickets in F or C anywhere in the world.

Why pay over 2000$ a year to keep the MR? you can pay 125$ with a Gold card and keep the points. You can always convert to FB, ANA, SQ, Alaska and use them up in 6-8 good tickets in F or C anywhere in the world.


Glad you asked. Now we can wait for the ten paragraph reply.

Tour best bet might be to use MX - they will hold award seats for you on AA (for up to 2 weeks if asked) while you effect a transfer (which usually takes up to 5 days).

The only downside is that if booking international business tickets - the domestic leg is booked in Y (if F they charge F for the entire itinerary).

What is MX? Thanks

Why pay over 2000$ a year to keep the MR? you can pay 125$ with a Gold card and keep the points. You can always convert to FB, ANA, SQ, Alaska and use them up in 6-8 good tickets in F or C anywhere in the world.

He probably has it for the other card benefits.

It seems I am not the only one disappointed by inability to convert Amex rewards to AA miles. Hopefully Amex and AA monitor these forums. Maybe it will spark a dialogue. A long shot but you never know.

While I haven't worked with AA or AMEX, I have helped another carrier devise its frequent flyer credit card strategy. While participating in Membership Rewards would be great for us, as customers, there are a few good reasons why AA (and it's almost certainly AA, and not AMEX) wouldn't want to participate:

Interest on the points: Purchase something on a Citibank AA credit card, and AA gets what Citibank pays AA for each point now. Customers will take months, or even years, to redeem those points, while AA collects interest on that money. Membership Rewards customers, on the other hand, will often transfer points into an airline's program just before they're ready to redeem the points for an award, so AMEX is getting the benefit of accruing interest on the money they'll spend on points for the customer.

Breakage: Roughly 20% of airline miles are never redeemed (you can see the Aeroplan prospectus for more detail on that). Because AMEX customers tend to transfer points just before they're ready to redeem them for an award, there's much less breakage on the AA end. Instead, AMEX gets the benefit of breakage.

Encouraging loyalty to AA: If AA were to participate in MR, a number of customers would choose a Membership Rewards product over the Citibank product, giving those customers more choices in redemptions and airline loyalty. Now, a customer with a large number of points earned through credit card spend is likely to stick with AA. If those points were in Membership Rewards instead, the customer would have a much lower barrier to switching allegiances to another carrier.

If the Membership Rewards points were really incremental points sold, AA might bite the bullet and participate. Participating in the program would, however, likely shift spend from their co-branded Citibank affinity cards to the American Express Cards. I'm not quite sure why AA chooses to participate in the SPG program, but suspect it's related to the rate SPG pays AA for points being higher than what AMEX would pay and the volume of points transferred in being significantly less than if AA were to participate in Membership Rewards.

It seems I am not the only one disappointed by inability to convert Amex rewards to AA miles. Hopefully Amex and AA monitor these forums. Maybe it will spark a dialogue. A long shot but you never know.

I admire your optimism, but to be clear, IF AA ever did make this change I can assure you it won't be because of anything they read on FT. FTers (myself included) tend to overestimate our importance. I assure you both AA and Amex are aware of the situation, have been for quite some time and still haven't chosen to make the change.

If they were to do it, I assume that they would have to have a solid business case, one greater than enabling excited FTers to more quickly gain lifetime status on AA.

Regards

Participating in the program would, however, likely shift spend from their co-branded Chase affinity cards to the American Express Cards.

Your post continually refers to "Chase." For the record, and so as to not confuse people less familiar with the programs, I assume you actually meant to say Citibank, not Chase, yes?

Beyond that, you certainly make some compelling and interesting points. Most of what you say makes sense, particularlly the concern around the Citibank cards situation (which I suspect has become a very lucrative enterprise for AA).

However, the question that arises from following your argument is, don't all the things you have laid out apply just as equally to any of the other airlines that have chosen to participate in the program? Most airlines have co-branded Visa/MC cards, etc. So why would any other airline choose to participate based on the arguments you've made? Are you saying that the AA executives are just the smartest kids in the class?

Regards

What is MX? Thanks

Mexicana.

It seems I am not the only one disappointed by inability to convert Amex rewards to AA miles. Hopefully Amex and AA monitor these forums. Maybe it will spark a dialogue. A long shot but you never know.

I think that the key is most folks who want to collect AA miles know that AmEx isn't a viable option so they use the Citi cards that are available. Why buy into a program and then try to change it when a completely functional alternative exists?

I admire your optimism, but to be clear, IF AA ever did make this change I can assure you it won't be because of anything they read on FT. FTers (myself included) tend to overestimate our importance. I assure you both AA and Amex are aware of the situation, have been for quite some time and still haven't chosen to make the change.

If they were to do it, I assume that they would have to have a solid business case, one greater than enabling excited FTers to more quickly gain lifetime status on AA.

Regards

I am definitely a realist. There probably is someone at American Advantage who would at least casually monitors these boards. Frequent flyers are obviously a group of people important to the airlines. I agree that AA and Amex are aware of the situation. At some point there was a breakdown based on one parties expectations, business plan or strategy. I have to suspect that there are a reasonable number of people who reject Amex branded cards due to the lack of relationship with AA. On the other hand Amex still captures these people through the Starwood Amex or Citi AA Amex. It is all about branding, profit and strategic plan at the end of the day.

For those of us in Oz we would love it if Amex the ability to direct transfer to AA at a reasonable rate.

Via SPG is costly.

Living in Oz we cannot get the AA Amex.

Another OZ man here. I second you, except that I would prefer if Miles and More (Lufthansa) were direct partners...

Mexicana.

I believe the Mexicana / AA relationship just terminated, so this is no longer an option.

Your post continually refers to "Chase." For the record, and so as to not confuse people less familiar with the programs, I assume you actually meant to say Citibank, not Chase, yes?

Beyond that, you certainly make some compelling and interesting points. Most of what you say makes sense, particularlly the concern around the Citibank cards situation (which I suspect has become a very lucrative enterprise for AA).

However, the question that arises from following your argument is, don't all the things you have laid out apply just as equally to any of the other airlines that have chosen to participate in the program? Most airlines have co-branded Visa/MC cards, etc. So why would any other airline choose to participate based on the arguments you've made? Are you saying that the AA executives are just the smartest kids in the class?

Regards

Yes, I did mean Citibank. I've corrected my post. There are still advantages to participating. It is an opportunity to sell additional miles. The AMEX/airline relationship is also a quite complex one. AMEX is one of the largest, if not the largest, travel agents. AMEX also controls how much money they holdback until departure when a customer purchases a plane ticket using an AMEX card (card issuers hold back a certain percentage of the charge as insurance against the carrier going bankrupt and the issuer being forced to repay customers). Finally, AMEX MR buys a significant number of miles from participating airlines and has the ability to buy a massive number of miles in advance to help airlines struggling with cash flow issues. In December, for example, American Express paid Delta $1B up-front for the sale of miles and agreed to pay another $1B over the next two years.
(http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/delta-receive-2-billion-american/story.aspx?guid={9307605F-9B2E-495C-BCB4-349E6291BE93})

Yes, I did mean Citibank. I've corrected my post. There are still advantages to participating. It is an opportunity to sell additional miles. The AMEX/airline relationship is also a quite complex one. AMEX is one of the largest, if not the largest, travel agents. AMEX also controls how much money they holdback until departure when a customer purchases a plane ticket using an AMEX card (card issuers hold back a certain percentage of the charge as insurance against the carrier going bankrupt and the issuer being forced to repay customers). Finally, AMEX MR buys a significant number of miles from participating airlines and has the ability to buy a massive number of miles in advance to help airlines struggling with cash flow issues. In December, for example, American Express paid Delta $1B up-front for the sale of miles and agreed to pay another $1B over the next two years.
(http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/delta-receive-2-billion-american/story.aspx?guid={9307605F-9B2E-495C-BCB4-349E6291BE93})

It is clear there is a close relationship between banks, credit card companies and the airlines. See the following thread

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-aadvantage/939538-aa-early-talks-sell-block-award-miles-citibank.html

Given the mutually beneficial relationship between Citibank and AA Advantage, I suspect it negatively impacts their relationship with Amex. Certainly suggests the status quo between Amex and AA Advantage is likely to continue.

Why buy into a program and then try to change it when a completely functional alternative exists?

That is a very good point. The answer for me is that I prefer to use my Amex Gold card for virtually all aspects of the card except that I think MR is a poor program (for me). I want AA miles. If AMEX offered AA miles then I would always use the AMEX Gold Card because I think the card is better than the Citibank offerings. Others may not think of their AMEX product as highly as I do, so their opinion will differ.

Why buy into a program and then try to change it when a completely functional alternative exists?

I agree with cparekh: in my experience (in the UK) AMEX customer service is ten times better than Citibank's and the card benefits (rental car insurance, lounge access etc.) are much better too. I would use my AMEX plat all the time if it gave me AA miles.

One reason that they don't allow MR transfers is that there would be a gazillion Lifetime Executive Platinum members overnight. :D

If they didn't count every mile toward lifetime status by making an exclusion for MR transfers, it might be possible.

Until then I wait until Delta has a bonus and then make transfers.;)

Cheers

If 33% isn't good enough (and I agree it isn't), how about 60%?

100,000 American Express Membership Rewards (US) converts to
100,000 Continental OnePass (at a ratio of 1:1) converts to
100,000 Amtrak Guest Rewards (at a ratio of 1:1) converts to
300,000 Choice Hotels Choice Privileges (at a ratio of 5000:15000) converts to
60,000 American AAdvantage (at a ratio of 5:1)

This option comes from the best site I know for figuring out how to convert from one program to another: http://www.webflyer.com/programs/mileage_converter/

No...

Elite Status Is Not A Matter of Life and Death...It's Much More Important Than That!

Another OZ man here. I second you, except that I would prefer if Miles and More (Lufthansa) were direct partners...

Another 'aussie' here. Not so keen on the LH Miles, but any way of moving MR points to AA points would be great, that's not via the lousy SPG redemption rates.

On a side note, Qantas recently killed all but a few of their partners who allowed selective points moving. They now have a suite of 'direct earn' cards with points directly swept to QF each month. From what has been said in these posts, it makes sense. QF now get the ~20% breakage as well as the interest from the cash the banks pay for said points. The only ones (off the top of my head) that allow selective sweep to QF are Amex Platinum Charge (not the credit card which is what pisses me off as I have this), and Diners Corporate/Business cards. There may be a few others that are not affected, but they've pretty much culled it to High-Tiered Corporate charge cards only.

As a result, Amex have now lost all my spend. I'm not going to accumulate points (even at a good rate) which can't be redeemed for anything useful. Sure, the AU program has a selection of FF programs, but when 95% of your travel is Domestic, there's nothing to augment your earn from actual flying. My annual spend is not high enough to justify using a separate FF program just for 'free flights on a whim'. I guess AA/Amex AU don't think there's enough people in AU that would be interested in any kind of tie-up between them down under (and it's probably right, it's us that'd be the most interested, which is the minority of frequent flyers).

One reason that they don't allow MR transfers is that there would be a gazillion Lifetime Executive Platinum members overnight. :D

There is no such thing as LT Executive Platinum.

Regards

I might be way off here, but... wouldn't Amex's close relationship with Delta pretty much mean AA stays out in the cold?

New to the boards! But essentially yes -- because of Amex's relationship with Delta, its unlikely that an AA deal would happen.

For the person/people with a helluva lot of MR Points, have you tried booking your flights through the Amex Travel site? That way you'd still be able to use your points on any airline and not have to worry about conversion -- the engine they use is Travelocity's (I think.)

New to the boards! But essentially yes -- because of Amex's relationship with Delta, its unlikely that an AA deal would happen.

For the person/people with a helluva lot of MR Points, have you tried booking your flights through the Amex Travel site? That way you'd still be able to use your points on any airline and not have to worry about conversion -- the engine they use is Travelocity's (I think.)

Welcome to FT! (I think, post #1 today, join date of 2005:confused:)

Generally speaking, for many of the folks who are anxious about this issue, the acutal booking of flights on AA is a somewhat secondary concern. The primary concern of many folks is a desire to quickly ramp up their lifetime mileage counter on AA in pursuit of lifetime elite status (either Gold or Platinum).

Also, as a side note, the valuation of your MR points when using the "Pay with Points" option you are referring to isn't real great. But it certainly is an option.

Regards

Many of you mention SPG 1.25 conversion, but how long does it take for the miles to post from SPG to the airline? For example, say one wishes to book a flight on SPG airline - few airlines will hold reservations & I have been told SPG can take up to 5 days? AMEX MR post immediately so res & tkt can be done simultaneously.

I THINK you can convert AMEX to AA on www.points.com
no charge, no fee, no mess.

New to the boards! But essentially yes -- because of Amex's relationship with Delta, its unlikely that an AA deal would happen.On what do you base this statement? AmEx has relationships with many other airlines, in addition to DL. Why would the potential AA relationship be any different in that regard?

For the person/people with a helluva lot of MR Points, have you tried booking your flights through the Amex Travel site? That way you'd still be able to use your points on any airline and not have to worry about conversion -- the engine they use is Travelocity's (I think.)Because the value is horrible. A 250K ticket on CO as an elite (which one gets for being Centurion, or can earn by flying a little) offers last seat availability in the front cabin to anywhere in Europe from North America. The same ticket booked on the AmEx site would cost up to 1MM points (for a $10K ticket).

I THINK you can convert AMEX to AA on www.points.com
no charge, no fee, no mess.
I just asked their support chat:

Fatma: Hello. How may I assist you?
you: Hi.
you: I was wondering if you could tell me what the point swap rate you have is for converting AmEx Membership Rewards points to AA miles is
Fatma: Hi there
Fatma: I'm sorry at this time, Amex does not allow Swaps to AASo that doesn't seem to be an option.

On what do you base this statement? AmEx has relationships with many other airlines, in addition to DL. Why would the potential AA relationship be any different in that regard?


It's a balancing act between increased profits and branding. While AAdvantage is a money machine for AA, the firm still have to think of it as a loyalty program. The liquidity of MR points may not be a good thing for AA in this light. Additionally, the Amex partnership with Delta is pretty tight - DL is integrated with MR, the co-brand card, OPEN Savings, etc., in addition to marketing campaigns. As much as increased revenue would help AA, the company needs to protect its brand -- and thus association with Amex (MR) might not be strategically advantageous. Of course, it's likely there is some price at which AA would sell points to Amex, but this price point might be too high (even at 2:1 transfers).

Of course, Amex does have a relationship with AA, evidenced by Admirals Club access for Platinum and a corporate card (link (http://corp.americanexpress.com/gcs/cards/us/land/bx.aspx)). This was awhile ago though, from 2003 (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_km3606/is_200307/ai_n8615835/). Perhaps one day the two sides can come to an agreement.

It's a balancing act between increased profits and branding. While AAdvantage is a money machine for AA, the firm still have to think of it as a loyalty program. The liquidity of MR points may not be a good thing for AA in this light. Additionally, the Amex partnership with Delta is pretty tight - DL is integrated with MR, the co-brand card, OPEN Savings, etc., in addition to marketing campaigns. As much as increased revenue would help AA, the company needs to protect its brand -- and thus association with Amex (MR) might not be strategically advantageous. Of course, it's likely there is some price at which AA would sell points to Amex, but this price point might be too high (even at 2:1 transfers).
I don't disagree with anything above. But none of it has to do with AmEx's relationship with DL preventing AmEx from striking a deal with AA, which was the initial claim. That was the only piece I was disagreeing with.

If I were AA I wouldn't want to hop in bed with AmEx MR either.

I don't disagree with anything above. But none of it has to do with AmEx's relationship with DL preventing AmEx from striking a deal with AA, which was the initial claim. That was the only piece I was disagreeing with.

If I were AA I wouldn't want to hop in bed with AmEx MR either.

This is just speculation - but perhaps exclusivity agreements with Delta or other partners prevent Amex from adding AA? I'd imagine Delta has some sort of leverage in this regard. In fact, I believe the only US-based legacy carriers you can transfer points to are Skyteam members.

I for one, am glad that MR->AA is not available (and I do have a bunch of MR points). With more miles chasing a given number of award seats, trying to get awards on AA might be as difficult as it is now on DL. And then we'd have more people whining about dilution of benefits by the "fake" lifetime golds & plats.