Budget Travel - OT: checkin charges (Flybe & Liarair content)

Tried to do a search on this incase it was written elsewhere.

Mrs Globalste flew LGW-NCL-LGW last week on FlyBe, she was charged to checkin online (i think it was to select her seat), which i kind of knew about but it all adds up to the cost of something that was included before. Flybe just seem to be a total sham of an airline and its terrible that they have a monopoly on certain routes and can charge all of these extras.

Yesterday i read in the freebie rag that Liarair are to charge £5 for online checkin, and £20 for checkin at the airport in a bid to bring forward their Online Checkin only policy! I was disgusted at all these extra charges they keep throwing in, in a bid to get around legislation to include taxes and fuel charges etc. What i did wonder though, was even if you do OLCI, if you have baggage then someone still has to tag it and assign it to your person anyway - so are they assuming most people take hand luggage?

Tried to do a search on this incase it was written elsewhere.

The appropriate elsewhere being the Budget Travel board (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/budget-travel-597/?daysprune=10). We'll move this over there in due course.

Yesterday i read in the freebie rag that Liarair are to charge £5 for online checkin, and £20 for checkin at the airport in a bid to bring forward their Online Checkin only policy! I was disgusted at all these extra charges they keep throwing in, in a bid to get around legislation to include taxes and fuel charges etc. What i did wonder though, was even if you do OLCI, if you have baggage then someone still has to tag it and assign it to your person anyway - so are they assuming most people take hand luggage?globalste I know you don't like ryanair but the above is simply incorrect...

Here are the facts.

The £5 charge for olci are for those with baggage.
Those with one piece of hand luggage pay no extra.

The £20 for checkin at the airport is a typical charge to disuade people from using airport check in.

Tbh anyone that uses ryanair and who wants to pay the £15 extra instead of the £5 olci if they have baggage can send the extra £10 to me...

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr=09&month=mar&story=gen-en-100309


There was a discussion on this on the last word on today fm here in Ireland yesterday evening and many many callers were ringing in saying ryanair were still the cheapest option for many if thats the type of service you want and clearly it is for millions-otherwise they wouldnt be as successfull as they are.

Clearly I have no time for arbitrary pointless ryanair bashing :)

oops, didnt know that forum existed. Cheers Shuttleboard.

Clearly I have no time for arbitrary pointless ryanair bashing :)

Oh I can't get enough of it! More, more more please! :D

Me too :D

The more bashing of that hateful, despicable airline the better ^

I never understood why OLCI is not an automatic process which is completed at the point of booking, it does not actually achieve anything at T-15days or T-2hours that cannot be achieved at the point of booking ?!?

OLCI should be automatic at point of booking for free with Cabin Luggage only
OLCI should be automatic at point of booking for £X with Hold Luggage only

I never understood why OLCI is not an automatic process which is completed at the point of booking, it does not actually achieve anything at T-15days or T-2hours that cannot be achieved at the point of booking ?!?


I think that one reason is that people don't always know how much luggage they will be taking for example. I might book a flight fully intending to only take hand luggage, but then for some reason need to bring hold baggage.

There's also the traveller who books a flexible ticket but then decides to change or not use it.

Me too :D

The more bashing of that hateful, despicable airline the better ^I didn't know an airline had feelings :D


As for dispicable-why does it have so many customers so? Because it's cheap like a 1 star hostel.

I don't believe an airline should be called dispicable because on a £5 fare it doesn't do a turn down service or have reclining seats..

Now that said I don't fly with them,I just wouldn't unless necessary.
Last time I flew them [the 3rd in my life] it was from lgw-dub and I felt trapped.
Horses for courses.I prefer BA,premium classes,lounges and the availability of airmiles.
Thats me,thats probably you.
My take on this like anything in life is,if it's not hurting me and it's popular [which ryanair is],I don't go out of my way to go bash it.

I have to agree. And even with the 5 pound check-in charge, it still saves a lot of people money, enabling some folks to fly who might not otherwise have been able to do so.

-A

I think that one reason is that people don't always know how much luggage they will be taking for example. I might book a flight fully intending to only take hand luggage, but then for some reason need to bring hold baggage.

There's also the traveller who books a flexible ticket but then decides to change or not use it.

OLCI should still be automatic at point of purchase following your luggage decision -- if later you wish to amend the luggage then you can go in and amend it

OLCI should still be automatic at point of purchase -- if you have a flexible ticket and later you wish to amend then you can go in and amend it

SURLELY the defualt at the point of bboking should be auto OLCI - a small % may need to amend luggage / flight but for the majority the luggage and flight are fixed and by virtue that they booked it they will want to be on it, hence need to OLCI, hence make it automatic

OLCI basically tells the airline that you are planning to make the flight ; but surely they can gather that fact by virtue that you have bought a ticket for it ?!?!?!?!?!?

Hang-on, charging for something that many passengers will do without (airport check-in, checked baggage, even maybe credit card fees) is one thing, but now you have to pay to check-in online. £5!

Surely Ryanair should be charging for the aircraft steps, safety demo, baggage sizers....?

Here are the facts.

The £5 charge for olci are for those with baggage.
Those with one piece of hand luggage pay no extra.

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr=09&month=mar&story=gen-en-100309


As I read it, these are not the facts. From October, you pay the £5 to OLCI whether you have hand baggage or not.

However ... I think this breaks the OFT rules on clear pricing - ie any unavoidable charges must be shown as part of the base fare in advertising or online. That is why they offer free payment with an Electron card - they know no-one has one, but it lets them get around adding the £4 fee to the base fare in their ads and online because you COULD avoid it if you tried hard enough. FR may need to re-think this one.

PS. The only positive thing is the 15 day OLCI window. This means I can check-in the parents-in-law and post them their boarding cards to Germany ....!

As I read it, these are not the facts. From October, you pay the £5 to OLCI whether you have hand baggage or not.

However ... I think this breaks the OFT rules on clear pricing - ie any unavoidable charges must be shown as part of the base fare in advertising or online. That is why they offer free payment with an Electron card - they know no-one has one, but it lets them get around adding the £4 fee to the base fare in their ads and online because you COULD avoid it if you tried hard enough. FR may need to re-think this one.

PS. The only positive thing is the 15 day OLCI window. This means I can check-in the parents-in-law and post them their boarding cards to Germany ....!

raffles - are you saying that you travel BA Club, and you have the inlaws travel ryanair?! Whats the secret? ;)

As I read it, these are not the facts. From October, you pay the £5 to OLCI whether you have hand baggage or not.Not on promotional fares.
Now who in their right mind would choose to fly on ryanair on anything other than their promotional fares.
Those are the fares[the sometimes 1p ones and the £5 ones] you see advertised on their site every day afaik.

That is why they offer free payment with an Electron card - they know no-one has one, but it lets them get around adding the £4 fee to the base fare in their ads and online because you COULD avoid it if you tried hard enough. FR may need to re-think this one.Maybe they should carry banner ads for this (http://bargainsireland.wordpress.com/2008/11/21/avoid-the-credit-card-charge-when-booking-with-ryanair/) on their site :p

PS. The only positive thing is the 15 day OLCI window. This means I can check-in the parents-in-law and post them their boarding cards to Germany ....!Well ... and don't laugh.. the ryanair rep that was on today fm yesterday said most people go for a week or less so with the 2 week window,they can print both bp's before they leave.

What about those on say a 3 week holiday he was asked..."oh those people would usually be staying in swanky hotels so if they ask their concierge,I'm sure they would be delighted to print out the bp's" ;) :p

In my view the OFT should implement the 'typical APR' approach to airline pricing. This would mean periodically sampling the profile of purchases to work out the average charges over and above the actual flight cost. That would then flush out the fact that probably on 1% of Ryanair customer actually pay with an Electorn card!

Then the OFT would be able to force Ryanair to quote true prices that the typical customer would really pay.

[QUOTE=globalste;11402038]Tried to do a search on this incase it was written elsewhere.

Mrs Globalste flew LGW-NCL-LGW last week on FlyBe, she was charged to checkin online (i think it was to select her seat), which i kind of knew about but it all adds up to the cost of something that was included before. Flybe just seem to be a total sham of an airline and its terrible that they have a monopoly on certain routes and can charge all of these extras.QUOTE]

Not sure about that ??? -- I normally travel GLA-MAN on FlyBe Economy Plus, which is so ludicrously expensive that they can't justify any additional charges, but travelled this route yesterday on regular "Y" ticket --- checked in online and got seating allocation and boarding pass, no extra cost. Checked in from hotel for return sector, got seat, printed BP, again no extra cost. Both flights pushed back on-time, flew to schedule, and I genuinely have no complaints (for once !!) ^

Not on promotional fares.


That is NOT what it says. Between May and October, it says you don't pay the £5 on promo fares. From October, it implies that everyone will pay it.

raffles - are you saying that you travel BA Club, and you have the inlaws travel ryanair?! Whats the secret? ;)

I actually try to avoid Club if possible ;). Should get through EK, LH, SQ and LX F this year with 2 EK J and 2 BA J long-haul legs. And to think I thought having a child would kill off all my leisure flying!

However ... parents-in-law live 10 minutes from a Ryanair 'airport' and I'm happy to fly them to get there, given that going via Hamburg costs at least 2.5x as much (even with all the charges) and leaves us with a 1hr+ train ride.

I didn't know an airline had feelings :D

As for dispicable-why does it have so many customers so?

............My take on this like anything in life is,if it's not hurting me and it's popular [which ryanair is],I don't go out of my way to go bash it.

I just don’t like their way of doing business, their attitude to passengers & particularly despise MOL :td:

I think him to be an obnoxious turd :mad:

I hate the way he rams it down our throats that his way is the best way & that all airlines should follow Ryanair’s lead.

I detest all their extra charges, while maintaining the pretence that they are offering passengers the lowest fare. Whereas in my experience from pricing them, they are not far off the fare you would pay with EI for example, when you add up everything. In some cases they are more expensive.

While I admit that millions fly them & love to do so. I think them to be a hateful, despicable set up of an airline & would rather flog myself with a leather whip embedded with nails, than set foot one on of their planes.

But of course YMMV ;)

Personall,y I do not understand why BA et al do not do some advertising on this fact to point out that Ryanair et al are not as cheap as they make out. It would need to be a "typical" flight but could be something along the lines of:
Route X->Y Rtn Out ww/yy/zz Return xx/yy/zz
BA Lo-co
Base Fare £80 £40
Taxes + Fuel £60 £40
Wheelchair Levy £6
Baggage 20kg Included £25 (15kg)
Excess not needed £30
Check-in Included £10
Priority board Not needed £20
Drink Included £4
Food Included £5

Total £140 £180

I am sure there will be examples when Ryanair et al are chepaer and the smae for BA, but I am sure on a representative sample for times when people want to fly there will be a lot of similarity. In my recent comparisons for school holidays BA over 2 legs was a similar price to some Lo-co's direct.

NGBTS.

Your example is a little unfair. Here is a realistic example from my parents in law from Hamburg (25-30 March round trip) as priced on 27th Feb:

Base fare (return): 2 x Euro 20 = Euro 40
Taxes: None as promo fares
1 bag and compulsory desk check (pax 1) = Euro 30
Desk check-in for pax 2 with no bag = Euro 10
Payment by Mastercard = Euro 20
Total cost: Euro 100 for 2

They neither need nor want priority boarding or excess baggage and probably won't eat or drink anything on board either as long as they bring their sudoko books!

This is still shockingly cheaper than the BA flights on the same day, which (taking the cheapest option) comes out at Euro 390 for 2.

Ryanair also has a brand new fleet and 12 emergency exit row seats per plane - you're not flying on a leaking rust-bucket a la BA's 767's.

... the fare you would pay with EI ...Would this be the same EI who wants to charge us for baggage, seat numbers, credit card payment (not for us with a Visa Electron card) and no doubt 'food' and drink when we fly LGW-ZRH? Hadn't you heard? EI is a LCC in Europe.
Route X->Y Rtn Out ww/yy/zz Return xx/yy/zz
BA Lo-co
Base Fare £80 £40
Taxes + Fuel £60 £40
Wheelchair Levy £6
Baggage 20kg Included £25 (15kg)
Excess not needed £30
Check-in Included £10
Priority board Not needed £20
Drink Included £4
Food Included £5

Total £140 £180
I always say 'horses for courses' and YMMV. While the formatting makes it difficult to compare, how about this comparison for a hand baggage only promo flight based on your example:

BA LiarAir
Base Fare £80 £0.02
Taxes + Fuel £60 £0
Wheelchair Levy £0
Baggage 20kg Included not needed,(10kg hand baggage)
Excess not needed £0, not needed
Check-in Included £10
Priority board Not needednot needed
Drink Included not needed
Food not needed not needed

Total £140 £10.02

Makes a difference. :p You can prove anything with figures. ;)

(I didn't include BA's credit card fee as I would pay Liarair's charges by Visa Electron.)

I have to agree - if you also weigh up the cost of getting the Stansted Express (£28.80) from Liverpool Street Vs £8 rtn for the tube the costs are so close.

I would always pay an extra £20-£30 to not travel on Ryanair. I have managed to get one of my friends off Ryanair and onto BMI for the LHR-BHD route....if only it was served by BA (they don't even fly to BFS). Also managed to get another friend off Ryanair for the LON-GLA route.....I should be commission.

Oh well, long live the frills airline....

^

I have to agree - if you also weigh up the cost of getting the Stansted Express (£28.80) from Liverpool Street Vs £8 rtn for the tube the costs are so close.Fine for you getting to LHR, but perhaps not for others. LHR for me is less convenient than STN (and LCY and LTN for that matter). As I said just now, 'horses for courses' and YMMV.

Personally, I would never use the Stansted so-called Express, and Liverpool Street is NOT the centre of London. But if you're comparing, you should do so with the HEX and GEX rather than the Underground.

I have managed to get one of my friends off Ryanair and onto BMI for the LHR-BHD routeIt would really upset some around here if LiarAir served LHR-BHD. :D

Would this be the same EI who wants to charge us for baggage, seat numbers, credit card payment (not for us with a Visa Electron card) and no doubt 'food' and drink when we fly LGW-ZRH? Hadn't you heard? EI is a LCC in Europe............

That'd be the one ^

I've found that they still work out very favourably when priced against FR.

FR's checked baggage allowance of 15Kg is paltry compared to EI's 20Kg

The seat selection charge is optional, but at least you can select your seat. Which is not an opton on FR :td:

Also, to my mind at least the overall travelling experience is much nicer with EI, than FR's cattle truck set-up. Even if EI is only a shadow of it's former self :(