Travel Technology - Adventures in Customer Service, Part 2: Sling Media

Long Rant Warning

I replaced my original Slingbox with a Slingbox Pro HD this past October. At around the same time Sling released new SlingPlayer software that includes a Program Guide. Everything worked fine until January or so, when my Program Guide no longer functioned. A Google search, as well as a search of the Slingbox user forums revealed that, though not everyone was effected, there were others experiencing the same problem. I'd been too busy to deal with it, but had some time this weekend, so I called Sling's customer service number. Here's the conversation:

Sling: Hello, Sling Customer Service.

Me: Hi, I bought a Slingbox Pro HD in October and around January the Program Guide in the Slingplayer software stopped working.

Sling: I'd be happy to help you, sir. May I have the email address you used to register the Slingobox?

Me: Sure. It's [myemailaddress@mydomain.com].

Sling: Okay, is this Mr. PTravel?

Me: That's me.

Sling: Well, Mr. PTravel the Slingbox is warrantied for 1 year, but we only provide technical support for free for 90 days. If you'd like to extend your warranty to three years for $49.95, I can help you, or else you can pay $29.95 for one single incident.

Me: I have a one-year warranty but you won't provide technical support?

Sling: That's right. It's our policy, and clearly stated on our website at www.slingmedia.com.

Me: I didn't buy my Slingbox from you. I bought it from J&R. On the J&R site, it just said 1 year warranty -- it didn't say anything about only 90 days of technical support.

Sling: Well, it's on our website.

Me: So you've said. However, I didn't read your website. Look, I'm a lawyer and licensed in California -- that's where Sling is, right?

Sling: Yes sir, I believe you're right.

Me: Okay, well California law doesn't let you change the terms of a warranty by putting it somewhere that a consumer can't see it.

Sling: Well, it is on our website.

Me: Yes, you've said so. It wasn't on the website of your authorized dealer, and it wasn't on the box. What was on both was, "1 year warranty."

Sling: Well, that's our policy -- your Slingbox is warrantied for 1 year.

Me: The SlingPlayer software is part of my Slingbox system.

Sling: Yes, that's right.

Me: Well, it doesn't work.

Sling: Unfortunately, I can't help you unless you either pay the incident fee or extend your warranty.

Me: May I speak to a supervisor please? You've been very nice (he was), but this is ridiculous.

Sling: Certainly. Please hold.

[After a few minutes, a supervisor gets on. I have the same conversation verbatim. I finally give up and say:}

Me: Okay, fine. I'll pay the $50 and deal with the legality of this later.

Supervisor: I'll connect you back to our Customer Service Specialist.

[More time on hold]

Sling: Hello again, Mr. PTravel. I understand that you want to purchase the extended warranty?

Me: Yes.

[Another few minutes as I give credit card information and the transaction is confirmed.]

Sling: Okay, now what seems to be the problem?

Me: Well, as I told you, the Program Guide stopped working. Everything else works fine.

Sling: Are you connected to the internet?

Me: Well, yes. I told you, everything else works fine -- it wouldn't if there wasn't an internet connection.

Sling: Are you running anti-virus software or a firewall?

Me: Yes, but I tried disabling everything and the program guide still doesn't work.

Sling: Please hold while I consult a supervisor.

[More minutes of my life slip away]

Sling: Sorry for the delay, Mr. PTravel. My supervisor recommends that you re-install the software.

Me: I already did that -- I deleted it, scrubbed the registry and then re-installed it. It still doesn't work.

Sling: Well, that's what my supervisor said you should do.

Me: And I did that. And the problem still remains.

Sling: Will you let me connect to your computer?

Me: Sure, go ahead.

[Another 10 minutes spent while I access GoToMyPC or something similar that is set up for tech support. Mr. Sling goes through each menu item on the Sling Player and verifies that it is set correctly.]

Sling: Well, everything is set correctly.

Me: Yes.

Sling: Well, the problem is with your computer.

Me: Yes, that's what I said when I called. The Sling Player software isn't working correctly on my computer.

Sling: Well, there's nothing wrong with the software, so it must be your computer. We can't do anything.

Me: Get your supervisor, please.

[On hold, watching my hair turn gray and fall out]

Supervisor: Yes?

Me: Look, I called in and told you that the Slingplayer Software wasn't working on my computer. You told me you wouldn't help me unless I paid 50 bucks. I paid the 50 bucks. Now your rep is telling me that the problem is that the Slingplayer software isn't working on my computer. And you can't help me. This is a joke, right?

Supervisor: No, sir. The problem is that the Slingplayer software won't work on your computer.

Me: I know! I told you that. And you told me I have to pay $50. And I paid it. And now you're telling me what I told you. You took $50 for that?

Supervisor: Well, the representative told me you refused to let him re-install the software.

Me: I didn't refuse. I told him I had done it already. And scrubbed the registry.

Supervisor: So you refused.

Me: No, I didn't. You want to re-install it again? Go for it! Feel free!

Supervisor: Well, there's no point if you already did it.

Me: I'm glad you agree.

Supervisor: May I connect to your PC?

Me: By all means -- connect! Connect!

[More time spent on GoToMyPC, the Supervisor looks at every menu setting in the Sling Player software.]

Supervisor: Well, everything looks right.

Me: Yes.

Supervisor: You say that it worked until January?

Me: That's right.

Supervisor: Well it must be your computer.

Me: Yes, it must be my computer.

Supervisor: Well, there you go. We can't fix your computer.

Me: There's nothing wrong with my computer. Your software is clearly conflicting with something else.

Supervisor: Yes, that's right. We can't be responsible for third-party software.

Me: The problem is YOUR software. I don't know what it's doing. You're supposed to know what it's doing. If you give me a hint, I'll try to figure it out myself. However, I have no idea -- that's why I called you.

Supervisor: Well, this problem is unique to you.

Me: As a matter of fact, it's not. Check your own forums -- other people are having the same problem. Do a Google search -- you'll see that it is not unique.

Supervisor: Well, there's nothing we can do.

Me: Are you kidding? You took $50 from me for this?

Supervisor: I'm sorry, but the problem isn't our software -- everything is set correctly, so it should work.

Me: But it doesn't.

Supervisor: Yes.

Me: Okay. I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to call American Express and dispute the $50 charge. Then I'm going to call the office of the California State Attorney General and report this as fraud. Then I'm going to decide whether I want to simply sue you in small claims court for the cost of the Slingbox, or file a class-action law suit. I mentioned I was a lawyer, right? The class-action suit sounds kind of appealing to me. So that's what I'm going to do. Good bye.

Supervisor: Well, wait. Here's what I'll do -- I'll write up the incident and I'll send it to Third Tier Support. They're our engineers who actually understand the software. If you'll give me your contact information, they'll call you as soon as they've resolved the problem. Is that okay?

Me: Yes, that's fine.

[Information exchanged, call ended]

This country is going to hell in a hand basket.

I feel your pain. Slingmedia has always been a PITA to deal with.

Warranty is not the same as free technical support. And as a lawyer you should know that you actually only deserve what is written in the contract, not what you think you should get just because you can claim to be a lawyer and yell at a CSR who is doing their job.

Beyond that, you got crappy technical support. Congrats.

This is really quite sad, they make a great product, but are clearly not capable of supporting it :(

Normally I'm no fan of the "I'm an attorney" line, but I have to say, in your case you handled it quite well :)

Warranty is not the same as free technical support. And as a lawyer you should know that you actually only deserve what is written in the contract, not what you think you should get just because you can claim to be a lawyer and yell at a CSR who is doing their job.

Beyond that, you got crappy technical support. Congrats.

So maybe he should have returned the whole unit as a warranty repair? After all, it wasn't working properly...

Warranty is not the same as free technical support. And as a lawyer you should know that you actually only deserve what is written in the contract, not what you think you should get just because you can claim to be a lawyer and yell at a CSR who is doing their job.First, I didn't yell at anyone. Second, the Slingbox consists of two separate components -- one is the hardware that attaches to the video source, and the other is the software that runs on the computer. Sling tried to claim that the warranty attaches to the hardware, only, though there is no such exclusion in the warranty statement I saw on J&R.

Do you really think you are in a position to lecture me on the law?

So maybe he should have returned the whole unit as a warranty repair? After all, it wasn't working properly...At one point, I actually discussed that with the supervisor. I told him that the Slingbox was supplied with software and, though the hardware appears to work, the software doesn't. He said I could do that if I thought the hardware was broken, but it doesn't sound like it is. I agreed.

Sorry to say but that post of made me laugh out loud. PTravel you have my sympathies, hope it is resolved soon.

I assume you are going to do a chargeback. That seems like a no brainier and a easy way to put this behind you. I imagine you didn't hand them cash over the phone. They did not fulfill their end of the transaction and have little merit to ride on.

Wirelessly posted (iPhone 3G: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

Warranty is not the same as free technical support. And as a lawyer you should know that you actually only deserve what is written in the contract, not what you think you should get just because you can claim to be a lawyer and yell at a CSR who is doing their job.First, I didn't yell at anyone. Second, the Slingbox consists of two separate components -- one is the hardware that attaches to the video source, and the other is the software that runs on the computer. Sling tried to claim that the warranty attaches to the hardware, only, though there is no such exclusion in the warranty statement I saw on J&R.

Do you really think you are in a position to lecture me on the law?

About the same position a helpdesk supervisor is in when threatened with a lawsuit they have little control over?

Me: So you've said. However, I didn't read your website. Look, I'm a lawyer and licensed in California -- that's where Sling is, right?

Sling: Yes sir, I believe you're right.

Me: Okay, well California law doesn't let you change the terms of a warranty by putting it somewhere that a consumer can't see it.
About the same position a helpdesk supervisor is in when threatened with a lawsuit they have little control over?
Agreed - regardless of your credentials, or qualifications, or expert knowledge of the subject, you handled the situation the wrong way. Based on the policies that most helpdesks have I'm surprised your insightful comment didn't result in a brief "you'll have to take this up with our lawyers then" followed by a click as they hung up on you. I know for a fact that this is what would happen with most Global 2000 companies.

I also believe, unless it's changed recently, that the IVR that answers the phone at SlingMedia tells you about this software support policy in advance of an agent speaking with you, so you were informed about it before you spoke with them? Or has this changed?

In my n=1 experience I've had good results with Slingmedia. My Slingbox Classic stopped working last year and I thought it was the actual unit that had failed but it turns out it was just the AC adapter and they were willing to send me a new one by just having me provide the SN of the failed one.

Thus far I've had no issues with the actual player software thankfully.

Any chances the Slingmedia forums have come up with a solution to the problem? I've found that for this type of problem where only some of the installed base is affected a forum is usually much more helpful than "tech support" which goes through a pre-programmed script and which if unsuccessful ends with "no clue, sorry, not our problem".

Wirelessly posted (iPhone 3G: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)



About the same position a helpdesk supervisor is in when threatened with a lawsuit they have little control over?And yet, after I told him what I was going to do, he pushed the matter to tier 3, didn't he?

Agreed - regardless of your credentials, or qualifications, or expert knowledge of the subject, you handled the situation the wrong way. Based on the policies that most helpdesks have I'm surprised your insightful comment didn't result in a brief "you'll have to take this up with our lawyers then" followed by a click as they hung up on you. I know for a fact that this is what would happen with most Global 2000 companies. Except that you and the previous poster are wrong, as it took the threat to get the incident moved up the chain.

I also believe, unless it's changed recently, that the IVR that answers the phone at SlingMedia tells you about this software support policy in advance of an agent speaking with you, so you were informed about it before you spoke with them? Or has this changed?At this point, I don't recall -- I pay only as much attention to the IVR as is necessary to get to tech support.

In my n=1 experience I've had good results with Slingmedia. My Slingbox Classic stopped working last year and I thought it was the actual unit that had failed but it turns out it was just the AC adapter and they were willing to send me a new one by just having me provide the SN of the failed one.I agree -- they used to be good and, in fact, cited Sling as an example of good technical support in an earlier thread. Not any more, however.

Thus far I've had no issues with the actual player software thankfully.

Any chances the Slingmedia forums have come up with a solution to the problem? I've found that for this type of problem where only some of the installed base is affected a forum is usually much more helpful than "tech support" which goes through a pre-programmed script and which if unsuccessful ends with "no clue, sorry, not our problem".I'd searched the forum, which is how I knew that others were having the same problem. No suggestions from Sling or anyone else.

not what you think you should get just because you can claim to be a lawyer and yell at a CSR who is doing their job.


hahaha. maybe somebody should report your post, sbm.

-David

Sling tried to claim that the warranty attaches to the hardware, only, though there is no such exclusion in the warranty statement I saw on J&R.

Curious--what does it say in/on/around the box? Or when you actually installed the software. Here is what the click-thru says when one installs it:

5. Support.

If you encounter any problems using the Software, please contact www.slingmedia.com for support information. During the applicable warranty period, Sling Media will use reasonable efforts to respond to any problems you may encounter using the Software.

7. Statutory Rights and Limited Warranty in Relation to the Software.

For a 90-day period following the date of your purchase or download of the Software Sling Media warrants that the Software will be of satisfactory quality and fit for its normal purpose and that the Software will be suitable for use in a general, non commercial environment and in a manner consistent with the functionality and specifications set out in the Software description.

If the Software is provided to you on physical media, Sling Media warrants that the media on which the Software is provided will be substantially free from defects in material and workmanship for a 90-day period after the date of your purchase of the Software.

Sling Media shall replace any defective media returned to Sling Media within a 90-day period after the date of your purchase of the Software and with reasonable skill and care. Also, Sling Media warrants that for a 90-day period following the date of your purchase or download of the Software that the Software will substantially perform in accordance with the documentation.

During the limited warranty period set forth above, Sling Media shall, at its option, correct or replace the non-conforming Software free of charge or refund your purchase price for the Software. The aforementioned repair, replacement or refund options shall be your sole and exclusive remedy with regards to the warranty set forth in this section.

Sling Media does not warrant that the Software will meet your specific requirements, that the Software will operate in the combinations that you may select for use, that the operation of the Software will be error-free or uninterrupted, or that all Software errors will be corrected.

A lot of thing language is boilerplate and has been upheld in various jurisdictions, particularly the final paragraph.

I'm not a lawyer. My company makes (and has been sued) over software and has relied (successfully) upon very similar language to defend itself against claims resulting from customer platform configurations.

Do you really think you are in a position to lecture me on the law?

Do you regularly practice contract law that specifically surrounds either warranty claims, software EULAs, or both? Because if not, that question is akin to having a Sushi chef asking if his knowledge of southern italian cuisine is beyond a layman's question.... And if you do, do you think that Sling has slouches advising them or that they've not thought of something like this?

I think the situation sucks, personally (because I think that vendors with proprietary software ought to be good enough to make it work). But the real question is this: having parted (perhaps temporarily) with $50 and pulled the "I'll sue" card, have they actually fixed it for you yet?

Would it be worth installing the software on a different computer to truly isolate the problem to your original PC?

I had speed problems (70% drop) after updating to a new version of firmware. By rolling back to an earlier version I could use the newer player with older firmware to achieve all the results I sought. Might this be a solution?

Mike

And yet, after I told him what I was going to do, he pushed the matter to tier 3, didn't he?
I would have done anything possible to stop talking to you at that point, too.
Sling tried to claim that the warranty attaches to the hardware, only, though there is no such exclusion in the warranty statement I saw on J&R.Why would the J&R website ever be considered authoritative for the specific warranty details of a product they sell? This is the crux of your claim that you deserve warranty service, despite the specific details in the EULA that you agreed to. I suppose you could claim that J&R has to take it back as they misrepresented the warranty, but even that is a pretty big stretch.

And as for me being in a position to "lecture" you, in this case, yes, though I certainly wasn't. You posted your issue here, most likely because you wanted comments back. I'm guessing that you expected the get comments about how bad the service was, but you've left yourself open to having faults identified in your approach to the situation. Sorry if you're not happy that I chose to identify those. I apologize for using the term "yell" without any basis for that. I should have said "insisted on your point of view being fact in spite of evidence to the contrary."

Tech support in general sucks. Most people with half a brain and google can figure out that the help scripts the level 1 / 2 support is using are useless.

I recall calling TomTom and Garmin recently to ask for support on a few things, and level 1 / 2 support was useless. I ended up fixing the problems on my own. The problems I had were well known and posted on various sites, but the Garmin / TomTom help desk claims to have "never heard of the problem".

It's sad but sometimes the most clueless person on the line in help desk is the help desk.

Curious--what does it say in/on/around the box? Or when you actually installed the software. Here is what the click-thru says when one installs it:The box is in storage -- at this point, I don't recall the exact language. It would also be interesting to know what the click-through said on the software supplied on the original disk, but I'm too busy at the moment to dig it out and see.

A lot of thing language is boilerplate and has been upheld in various jurisdictions, particularly the final paragraph.California has an implied warranty of merchantability and an implied warranty of fitness for a specific purpose. Unless specifically disclaimed, these apply.

I'm not a lawyer. My company makes (and has been sued) over software and has relied (successfully) upon very similar language to defend itself against claims resulting from customer platform configurations.

Do you regularly practice contract law that specifically surrounds either warranty claims, software EULAs, or both? Because if not, that question is akin to having a Sushi chef asking if his knowledge of southern italian cuisine is beyond a layman's question.... Yes, I do. I've represented video game developers as a regular part of my practice, and I was outside general counsel for a major developer for more than a decade. I've written software EULAs and I've regularly counseled on warranty obligations.

Are you licensed to practice law anywhere?

And if you do, do you think that Sling has slouches advising them or that they've not thought of something like this?I'm sure their lawyers advised them, as I've advised my clients, that the enforceability of shrink-wrap licenses varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but generally requires, at minimum, an affirmative act of acceptance, a meaningful opportunity to accept or reject, and the ability to obtain a complete refund in the event of the latter. I've also included language at my clients' request that I advised was unenforceable because my clients believed it would tend to discourage consumers from pursuing an action.

However, you also miss the real point of the story, which was soliciting $50 from me after expressly stating that upon payment I would receive technical support and then failing to provide anything that could reasonably called technical support. That is breach of contract and, probably, fraud.

I think the situation sucks, personally (because I think that vendors with proprietary software ought to be good enough to make it work). But the real question is this: having parted (perhaps temporarily) with $50 and pulled the "I'll sue" card, have they actually fixed it for you yet?I haven't had a response yet, but I spoke with them on Saturday and it's only early Wednesday morning. I fully intend to follow up.

OK, if this had been me I would have done the following before calling tech. support. If each step doesn't fix the problem, move onto the next.

1. Uninstall/Reinstall software.
2. Reset SlingBox back to factory defaults.
3. Install SlingBox software on different machine.
4. If you have access, install software on Mac (or PC if you're already on a Mac).

If all the above do not work, then I think you safely say that the problem is not software related. In this case, get the SlingBox swapped out.

This would probably only take 30 minutes or so, which is less time than you spent on the phone!

Cheers,
Rick

One other thing... I recently installed the software on my new MacBook, and it said that I needed a firmware upgrade even though the PC software said it was up to date. Maybe worth a try.

Cheers,
Rick

I would have done anything possible to stop talking to you at that point, too.Much the same as I'm going to stop responding to you in this thread?

Why would the J&R website ever be considered authoritative for the specific warranty details of a product they sell? Because they are an authorized retailer of Sling and can bind Sling under the doctrine of ostensible agency. Why would a non-lawyer ever be considered an authoritative source for any kind of law?

This is the crux of your claim that you deserve warranty service, despite the specific details in the EULA that you agreed to.Wrong. First of all, I don't know the specific details in the EULA that I agreed to -- it is not the one that is current in the downloadable software, but the one that appeared within the software contained on the disk provided with hardware. Second, absent an express disclaimer, the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose pertain. Third, the EULA may or may not be enforceable, depending on the provisions it contained with respect to rejection and return.

Not surprisingly, you do not understand the ramifications of a threat to sue, even in small claims court. In California, corporations may not be represented by counsel -- the real party in interest must appear. This means that, for a small claims suit brought in Orange County, where I reside and where Sling can be found by virtue of their sales in this jurisdiction, Sling would have to either show through an officer or managing agent, or would be defaulted. With respect to a class-action, I need only a few actual plaintiffs to certify the class and, as a lawyer, my costs in preparing and filing the action would be negligible. A class-action, on the other hand, would be extremely expensive for Sling to defend and carries potential damages that far exceed the cost of the actual Slingbox. Finally, if I were to bring either action, it would include a cause of action for fraud predicated upon the $50 charge and, because it was intentional, includes the availability of punitive damages.

I suppose you could claim that J&R has to take it back as they misrepresented the warranty, but even that is a pretty big stretch.Incorrect. J&R would have to take it back for the shrink-wrap license exclusions to be enforceable by Sling (at least in California). J&R, however, would have liability only if it intentionally misrepresented the warranty terms, which I doubt it did.

And as for me being in a position to "lecture" you, in this case, yes, though I certainly wasn't.As I've said, no, you are not in any position to lecture me on the law -- you don't know it, don't know how it is applied in this context, and aren't aware of the ramifications of a suit if I were to go through with my threat.

You posted your issue here, most likely because you wanted comments back.I posted this story, along with the one about Microsoft's ICC, to illustrate the conclusion contained in the last sentence of the post: "This country is going to hell in a hand basket."

If I was soliciting legal opinions, I'd have posted in OMNI and titled the thread, "OMNI Legal Clinic: Can I sue Sling Media?" It didn't occur to me that, by posting a story about the lack of tech support from a company that makes a product specifically geared to travelers, I would wind up having to conduct an ad hoc seminar on shrink-wrap law, particularly in response to blunt and erroneous challenges by the moderator of this forum.

I'm guessing that you expected the get comments about how bad the service was, but you've left yourself open to having faults identified in your approach to the situation.You guessed right with respect to the former. Unfortunately, your identification of "faults" is mistaken. Criticize the tactic if you like, but your substantive analysis of the law is mistaken.

Sorry if you're not happy that I chose to identify those. I apologize for using the term "yell" without any basis for that. I should have said "insisted on your point of view being fact in spite of evidence to the contrary."I appreciate your apology for the term, "yell," as it was completely inaccurate and insulting. It does, however, reveal an obvious bias on your part (do you work in IT, by any chance?). As far as, "evidence to the contrary," you are simply mistaken.

OK, if this had been me I would have done the following before calling tech. support. If each step doesn't fix the problem, move onto the next.

1. Uninstall/Reinstall software.I did that.

2. Reset SlingBox back to factory defaults.No reason to do that. The Program Guide feature is independent of the Slingbox hardware.

3. Install SlingBox software on different machine.I did that -- it worked on an XP machine, but I don't have any other Vista machines to try it on.

4. If you have access, install software on Mac (or PC if you're already on a Mac).I don't. Why in the world would I do that?

If all the above do not work, then I think you safely say that the problem is not software related. In this case, get the SlingBox swapped out.I knew from before my call to Sling that the problem was software-related. The Program Guide uses data provided from Zap2It, not from the Slingbox hardware.

This would probably only take 30 minutes or so, which is less time than you spent on the phone!

Cheers,
RickSee above.

One other thing... I recently installed the software on my new MacBook, and it said that I needed a firmware upgrade even though the PC software said it was up to date. Maybe worth a try.

Cheers,
RickThe Sling software checks the firmware version of the Slingbox when it connects. The problem, here, is unrelated to the Slingbox hardware. The suggestion is appreciated, however.

Methinks this thread has served its purpose... Unless someone has a brilliant idea how to help the OP get his program guide working again, I'm going to close it. Drop me a PM if you feel I need to re-open it.

I have been asked to reopen this thread so someone can add possible solutions to the issue. Lets keep it civil please :)

Long Rant Warning

I replaced my original Slingbox with a Slingbox Pro HD this past October. At around the same time Sling released new SlingPlayer software that includes a Program Guide. Everything worked fine until January or so, when my Program Guide no longer functioned.

I am not going to get into any legal discussions.
Here are some questions and ideas for you to get the Guide back.

1) What you have to click on to see the guide is it the icon a heart or a pic of a TV?
2) If a TV does it say loading guide and then nothing shows?
3) Have you tried connecting to your box from another computer and did the guide work or not?
4) Did you try changing your zip code in the setup (to a nearby one) to see if that makes a difference?
5) Are you slinging via a proxy?
6) Have you tried this on you local LAN network where the box is connected and via WAN?

And... I wonder why support did (or did they) try to log into your Slingbox from their computer and see if it worked for them.

I am not going to get into any legal discussions.
Here are some questions and ideas for you to get the Guide back.

1) What you have to click on to see the guide is it the icon a heart or a pic of a TV?It's a little TV icon.

2) If a TV does it say loading guide and then nothing shows?One of three things happens when I click on it:

a. I get two error message windows that say, "Member not found." (This also happens when I open the player).
b. Nothing -- I click on it and nothing happens.
c. I get the error messages, then an all white window opens where the guide show be. It doesn't display any message at all -- just the white window.

3) Have you tried connecting to your box from another computer and did the guide work or not?I tried it from an XP netbook and it worked fine, i.e. there were no "Member not found" errors and the guide opened and worked as expected.

4) Did you try changing your zip code in the setup (to a nearby one) to see if that makes a difference?I didn't, but it worked on the XP netbook with the same zip code.

5) Are you slinging via a proxy?No. I've also tried connecting both via the Slingbox ID and through a direct connection using dyndns.org.

6) Have you tried this on you local LAN network where the box is connected and via WAN?Hmmm. I've accessed the box on the local lan, but not recently and I don't recall whether the guide came up or not. I'll try tonight.

And... I wonder why support did (or did they) try to log into your Slingbox from their computer and see if it worked for them.They did and it did.

Incidentally, I just received an email from third tier support indicating that they were working on the issue and asking if I have the latest version of Adobe Flash installed so, apparently, my service request is being addressed. I'm download Flash now and will try it.

I would try deleting your sling account on the computer that you are having this issue with. That MIGHT do it, when you re-enable the account.

Also, over the past six months or so, the SP2 builds have put different files in different locations, and that might have messed something up. When do you a delete and re-install, make sure you are getting ALL the files out before rebooting and re-installing the SP2 build.

(btw, I was able to access the EPG on PTravel's slingbox just fine - NICE BANDWIDTH there sparky!)

Incidentally, I just received an email from third tier support indicating that they were working on the issue and asking if I have the latest version of Adobe Flash installed so, apparently, my service request is being addressed. I'm download Flash now and will try it.

Now that is very interesting. I know you have been contacted via PM from other 'in the know' Sling users but let us know if the Flash upgrade works.

Now that is very interesting. I know you have been contacted via PM from other 'in the know' Sling users but let us know if the Flash upgrade works.Unfortunately, it did not. I also spent an hour or so thoroughly cleansing my computer of all things Sling. I did an uninstall, then hunted down every last directory and file that the Slingplayer had installed (and there were many, many of them -- I'm not sure what Sling's uninstall routine does, but it doesn't seem to physically uninstall much), and, finally, manually removed every Sling reference in the registry. I rebooted, searched the registry and the hard drive again, satisfied myself that there were no traces left and re-installed the Slingplayer.

The first thing it did was give me the "Member not found" errors, even before it had identified the Slingbox on my network and before it asked for my email address/user login for Sling. And, needless to say, the Program Guide still doesn't work.

Have you tried actually resetting that slingbox? Run through the entire setup again, including the EPG setup?

I know it is a pain.

Ptravel, it's unfortunate you seem to have wasted your time here. I'd personally send Sling's GC a letter on the appropriate stationery asking if he or she would like to do this the easy way.

This thread has unfortunately brought out the worst in a lot of people. Merely because you can strip down a mainframe or configure a server does not mean you know anything substantial about the legal implications of the situation covered in the first post.

Sadly, customer service in this country is going to hell in a handbasket and sometimes you can't even get that for which you are entitled unless and until you file a lawsuit.

Contract law is one of my areas of practice and I believe Ptravel to have a solid case, particularly in small claims court.

I am kinda stumped right now but have asked a couple of people in Sling Media for some help.
The weird thing is the 'Members not found' message I have never seen or heard of that one. It may sound weird but maybe at the end of the day you will actually help Sling debug something. ;)

Ptravel, it's unfortunate you seem to have wasted your time here. I'd personally send Sling's GC a letter on the appropriate stationery asking if he or she would like to do this the easy way.

This thread has unfortunately brought out the worst in a lot of people. Merely because you can strip down a mainframe or configure a server does not mean you know anything substantial about the legal implications of the situation covered in the first post.

Sadly, customer service in this country is going to hell in a handbasket and sometimes you can't even get that for which you are entitled unless and until you file a lawsuit.

Contract law is one of my areas of practice and I believe Ptravel to have a solid case, particularly in small claims court.

All legal arguments aside, it does seem like Sling have done all that one can reasonably expect- done the standard things, logged into the machine to see. PTravel is, fortunately, quite a bit above the standard user in terms of tech savvy, and even he can't get it to work on this machine, although it is fine on others. I'm not sure what Sling should be expected to do here (inasmuch as they certainly can't be held responsible for making sure that their software works on all machines with all possible software configurations and programs) short of authorizing a refund for the cost of the merchandise (and the $50 phone fee, of course).

Again, without bringing up legal merit at all, what could one expect to sue for in small claims court in such a case?

Cheers.

I am kinda stumped right now but have asked a couple of people in Sling Media for some help.
The weird thing is the 'Members not found' message I have never seen or heard of that one. It may sound weird but maybe at the end of the day you will actually help Sling debug something. ;)Maybe. ;)

I've found this:

http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=11916

There was also a reference I found somewhere on the Slingmedia forums.

I've also come across this, which is very interesting:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/172108

I've been assuming "Member not found" referred to either my registration with Sling or Sling's connection with Zap2It. Apparently, however, "Member not found" is a specific error message from C++. I don't know whether that is what is happening here, but it's certainly a possibility.

Maybe. ;)

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/172108

I've been assuming "Member not found" referred to either my registration with Sling or Sling's connection with Zap2It. Apparently, however, "Member not found" is a specific error message from C++. I don't know whether that is what is happening here, but it's certainly a possibility.

interesting. that might indicate a conflict with a shared library.

You want ldd to debug problems like that, which is a unix/linux thing. You might try something called dependencywalker? Not sure if it will give you the answer, but it should show you what the dependencies are for the executable, and you can compare that to what it tells you on the system where it's working?

-Daviud

I've been assuming "Member not found" referred to either my registration with Sling or Sling's connection with Zap2It. Apparently, however, "Member not found" is a specific error message from C++. I don't know whether that is what is happening here, but it's certainly a possibility.

From the description, I don't think this is it. The situation seems to be with the OLE (Object Linking and Embedding) using automation interfaces for Office products. Of course, the IDispatch interface is used beyond that, and it is possible that they have used a similar (COM) framework and you are running into a similar error). In this case, it would likely point to corrupted software as it is not finding the appropriate member...but you've re-installed, so that's less likely. The causes they list are coding application coding errors and this is also very unlikely as the Sling software seems to work, in general. Odd, to say the least.

Cheers.

You may be past that, but I've fixed bizzare WMP streaming media issues that seemed to have appeared out of nowhere by doing a simple System Restore to a date when everything worked.

A quick fix in lieu of hours of troubleshooting - I don't think anyone has suggested that. The trick is of course you have to have a good restore point to fall back on.

You may be past that, but I've fixed bizzare WMP streaming media issues that seemed to have appeared out of nowhere by doing a simple System Restore to a date when everything worked.

A quick fix in lieu of hours of troubleshooting - I don't think anyone has suggested that. The trick is of course you have to have a good restore point to fall back on.Even if I had a restore point set for back in January, I have done far too much to the computer to make this practical. This is like some "customer support" reps (not Sling, fortunately) who say, "Try re-installing the operating system and let us know what happens."

This is like some "customer support" reps (not Sling, fortunately) who say, "Try re-installing the operating system and let us know what happens."

It's not like that at all. First of all it takes 5 minutes and not hours of reinstalling the OS, drivers and software and restoring the data. Secondly you are reverting to a known good configuration, so there's no uncertainty as to "what happens"

But it seems you've waited too long so this option is not available anymore - good luck!

PTravel, I feel your pain. Somewhere in the software "enhancements" offered by Sling, my streaming LAN consistently freezes. No problem over the internet, btw. But I digress. My program guide works but believe me it's not worth 30 minutes of somersaults much less all you've been through. Use the guide on your cable/satellite provider and move on (assuming you get your $50 back). Also, I respect your knowledge based on your history of posts, but you have a Vista computer????

I'd look at trying the restore. If you are using vista, you can see exactly what you have installed over each date captured, so you can reinstall something if you need to. Just, pick a date when you know it worked.

We know it is a problem on that install only, since it works with other peoples computers and SP2.0 installs fine. Honestly, this is one I haven't seen in over a year of testing it.

It's not like that at all. First of all it takes 5 minutes and not hours of reinstalling the OS, drivers and software and restoring the data. Secondly you are reverting to a known good configuration, so there's no uncertainty as to "what happens"I think you missed my point -- doing a system restore doesn't fix the problem, it just puts the computer in a configuration before the problem occurred. I don't think of it as customer support, because it doesn't address the cause of the problem.

But it seems you've waited too long so this option is not available anymore - good luck!Thanks!

I'd look at trying the restore. If you are using vista, you can see exactly what you have installed over each date captured, so you can reinstall something if you need to. Just, pick a date when you know it worked.The problem started back in January. Even if I had a restore point that went back that far, and I don't, I'm not going to go through the process of having to restore everything I've done to the computer since then just to get the Sling software working.

We know it is a problem on that install only, since it works with other peoples computers and SP2.0 installs fine. Honestly, this is one I haven't seen in over a year of testing it.It may be a very rare condition, but it's not unique -- I provided a link to someone else who posted about it on the internet, and I saw it described by another person in the Sling forums.

I think you missed my point -- doing a system restore doesn't fix the problem, it just puts the computer in a configuration before the problem occurred. I don't think of it as customer support, because it doesn't address the cause of the problem.

Well, I guess that depends on how one defines "problem" If my Programming Guide worked last week and doesn't work anymore, I'd say reverting to a configuration that gets it working again solves my problem.

At the same time I freely concede that this fix doesn't address specifically whatever malfunction occurred in your system, but I think you must realize at your level that given the truly infinite complexity and variety of what could have happened (not the least due to the amount of tinkering with your system that you've mentioned) that a "proper" or "elegant" fix may be neither possible nor practical.

It's really too bad that you don't have a good restore point.

P.S. I had a situation with Microsoft where due to a glitch Access wasn't reading properly through ODBC from another database. They admitted that there was no "fix" that would make it work as it should, but offered an acceptable work-around and comped the incident on my license allowance - I considered this an acceptable solution.

Well, I guess that depends on how one defines "problem" If my Programming Guide worked last week and doesn't work anymore, I'd say reverting to a configuration that gets it working again solves my problem.I agree. However, we're not talking about restoring to a system configuration that is seven days old, but one that is more than two months old.

At the same time I freely concede that this fix doesn't address specifically whatever malfunction occurred in your system, but I think you must realize at your level that given the truly infinite complexity and variety of what could have happened (not the least due to the amount of tinkering with your system that you've mentioned) that a "proper" or "elegant" fix may be neither possible nor practical.Yes and no. These are general purpose computers, meaning they are intended to be used with a wide variety of software. I don't know anyone who buys a computer and just uses one program on it. Though computers and the software they run is very complex, there should be adequate traceability so that, when something is interfering, it is possible to determine what is happening. Actually, this gives me an idea. I think I'll take a look at the system logs and see if there's any indication in there of the problem.

It's really too bad that you don't have a good restore point.I agree. I wish I had had time to do something about this sooner as I've used system restore many times to resolve an otherwise mystifying error.

P.S. I had a situation with Microsoft where due to a glitch Access wasn't reading properly through ODBC from another database. They admitted that there was no "fix" that would make it work as it should, but offered an acceptable work-around and comped the incident on my license allowance - I considered this an acceptable solution.I would as well. Now that Sling is addressing this (I've received additional follow up emails), I'm satisfied with the response. Hopefully, we'll be able to resolve it.

Now this is weird.

All of a sudden, the Slingplayer software is working properly -- no more strange error messages and the program guide works as it should.

I'm mystified!