Mexico - Mexico:Failed State? Anyone in CUN recently?

Do we have any recent travelers to CUN? Have you seen any increased military/police presence?

Last summer I was walking around the Hotel zone, and saw a group of army troops in trucks and on foot. They had their rifles drawn while entering the property of one of the hotels.

Now, I've been going to cancun twice a year for about 16 years now and have never seen heavily armed troops in the hotel zone. I've seen the usual federales, but never army personnel.

At the time I didn't think much about it, but the violence in Mexico seems to be increasing. The govt there appears to be unable to suppress the cartels.

I go there with my mom to celebrate her birthday in June, so I'm wondering if I need to consider another summer destination.

Please discuss in the FT Mexico Forum.
Thanks..
Obscure2k
TravelBuzz Moderator

going to hell in a handbasket !!

Peso is now at 15.40 to the USD

Juarez has over 8000 troops who ROB the public in broad daylight and enter their houses at night to steal TV's, food anything of value.

Citizens do not trust the govt, army or police. Monthly DEATH tolls tops 200 in Juarez. NARCOS control everything. :td::td:

This is a revolution waiting to happen. Poor vs rich !!

USA will have to get involved pretty soon and I do not see how we stop mass immigration fro people seeking refuge.

I'm hoping that CUN is receiving extra protection since that's their crown jewel for tourism dollars. If they lose control of that, Mexico will fall into a death spiral (if it isn't in one already).

BTW, my mom lives in Las Cruces and flies in and out of ELP.

This is a revolution waiting to happen. Poor vs rich !!

Let's see, there was a revolution in 1810 and a revolution in 1910. Next year is...oh yeah, 2010. :eek:

http://www.voyage.gc.ca/countries_pays/report_rapport-eng.asp?id=184000

I was just in Cancun on the 16/17 and 24/25/26th of Feb, as well as in Merida for 3 days during Carnival, and then Akumal for 3 days.

We took our 5 and 8 year olds, and never felt unsafe, day or night, in the cities and beach areas - nor saw any extremely elevated number of police, seemed like the right amount of presence for holiday week and Carnival time. We weren't clubbing, perhaps there were more in those areas!

We did pay a well deserved fine of $40 USD to a very polite/pleasant police officer who stopped us in the CUN hotel zone doing perhaps 70 kph on a 40 kph zone, (we hadn't seen the signs and were very eager to get out of the hotel zone) It was either pay on the spot or surrender our driver's license and go to the station to fill paperwork/pay. Since we were headed off south to go to the awesome Selvatica zipline adventure near Puerto Morelos, we paid and thanked him and drove off sedately. (*Note - I had no issue with the fine, nor the police officer. We had been speeding, deserved the fine (would have cost much more in the US) and he was very professional)

I just arrived yesterday and it's my first time in the city, so jury may still be out. But so far, no evidence of a heavy military presence.
My flight over was nearly empty (maybe 25 people of a 747) so it seems like something may be up. Hotel (Le Meridien) also seems pretty quiet. Plenty of empty pool chairs. Maybe people are steering clear....or, it could just be the post-carnival pre-spring break slump.

:rolleyes: Please, if you think that Mexico is a failed state, you obviously haven't very many places...

And let's not forget the laws of supply and demand - the only reason the narcos exist is because of the insatiable hunger for drugs of Mexico's northern neighbor.

And let's not forget the laws of supply and demand - the only reason the narcos exist is because of the insatiable hunger for drugs of Mexico's northern neighbor.

You're right. Prohibition didn't work for alcohol, it just made criminals out of otherwise law-abiding people, and we as a country came to our senses about it. Now we just need to do the same with marijuana and coke and then stop pressing Mexico to enforce our drug laws. And we might even lose the honor of having the highest per capita incarceration rate in the world.

Was there last month with kids and saw no unusual military or police presence. Several taxi drivers told me that tourism is off considerably since last year. In my opinion, a great time to go - the devaluation of the peso makes it a little cheaper, and the people were incredibly friendly and are looking to make a dollar.

I was in Cancun in November and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary or different from any of the other times I've been in Cancun. I'll be there again in a few weeks and then in Cabo the following month. My 11 year old daughter will be accompanying me to Cancun. I would not take her if I thought it was any less safe than in previous years. Since it will just be my daughter and me (females), we will remain at the hotel in the evenings. In addition, I always exercise the same precautions as I do in any city by always being aware of surroundings, not flashing currency, not venturing into remote areas, etc.

To OP: Unless there is a sudden significant change in violence in the Cancun area, I don't see any reason you shouldn't go in June.

-----

The violence in several cities, including border cities, has increased significantly due to feuding drug lords/gangs. In the college, my friends and I would often go across the border from San Diego into Rosarito Beach (short drive from Tijuana). This is a route I would not drive today as this area is now inundated w/violence.

We were in Puerto Vallarta last month, and everything was fine. I never even saw a policeman, although we were in the southern part of the area (Barcelo la Jolla de Mismolya).

Some friends were at the same resort last week, and saw one pickup truck of masked soldiers going to the Mismolya beach, but heard nothing else of it.

Personally, I would not hesitate to go back to PV at this time.


DD

It's not really dangerous for foreigners, unless you plan to get involved with any narcos during your stay...

Particularly Cancun, I'd be surprised if anything happens. Most visits involve no trouble. Evidence from the UK's Foreign and Commonwealth Office:

"315,568 British nationals visited Mexico in 2008 (Source: Instituto Nacional de Migracion). The main types of incident for which British nationals required consular assistance in Mexico in 2008 were for: replacing lost or stolen passports (147 cases); arrests or detentions, for a variety of offences (21 cases); hospitalisations (25 cases); and deaths, mainly from natural causes (19 cases)."

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and-living-overseas/travel-advice-by-country/north-central-america/mexico

going to hell in a handbasket !!

Peso is now at 15.40 to the USD

Juarez has over 8000 troops who ROB the public in broad daylight and enter their houses at night to steal TV's, food anything of value.

Citizens do not trust the govt, army or police. Monthly DEATH tolls tops 200 in Juarez. NARCOS control everything. :td::td:

This is a revolution waiting to happen. Poor vs rich !!

USA will have to get involved pretty soon and I do not see how we stop mass immigration fro people seeking refuge.

You see too much television :td:

going to hell in a handbasket !!

Peso is now at 15.40 to the USD

Juarez has over 8000 troops who ROB the public in broad daylight and enter their houses at night to steal TV's, food anything of value.

Citizens do not trust the govt, army or police. Monthly DEATH tolls tops 200 in Juarez. NARCOS control everything. :td::td:

This is a revolution waiting to happen. Poor vs rich !!

USA will have to get involved pretty soon and I do not see how we stop mass immigration fro people seeking refuge.

Good for you. Stay away. More space and cheaper prices if gringos like you don't come. Go to Hawaii or Puerto Rico instead. Enjoy.

Good for you. Stay away. More space and cheaper prices if gringos like you don't come. Go to Hawaii or Puerto Rico instead. Enjoy.

This gringo plans to "stay away".

here is more ammo for you to stay away. I'll take my chances.

http://mexicovacationawareness.com/

Would appreciate more reports from recent travelers. Family making a trip next week and want to pacify some nervous one with facts. The TV and papers are rife with sufficient scary news.

Everything is safe. Bad things happen everywhere.


I have been all over Mexico over the last year. The only changes are a few road stops by the military in the Yucatan and in the border states. They are fine. Always feel safe.


Remember, if you are not involved in the drug trade, you are not a target. Enjoy your vacation.

My husband and I are headed to Cancun Marriott in a couple of weeks. I am considering changing my vacation because of what has been going on in the news. Does anyone have a personal experience to share or hear about anything?

Remember, if you are not involved in the drug trade, you are not a target.
Are those supposed to be comforting words?

uneasy traveler, I and my husband and kids had a great experience in Cancun, Merida, Akumal and the Yucatan in general in February. My post is on page 1 of this thread, as well as another thread in this forum subject Merida. PM me if you wish more detail.

Speaking to posts like the previous one from PropWasher, I do agree in general that "if you are not involved in the drug trade, you are not a target." In other words, if you are not doing anything illegal like buying/selling/using drugs, and you take general security precautions (as we all do when traveling in a city/region/country that we are unfamilier with) I think that you will have a safe, relaxing vacation in Mexico's Yucatan peninsula.

I posted earlier, but I'll follow up w/a few more comments. For anyone concerned about traveling to Cancun, research the statistics on attacks on tourists in Cancun. Then compare them to attacks on tourists in any major city in the US. You'll find Cancun, Cabo etc are not high risk destinations.

Random violent attacks on tourists can happen anywhere. Many of the tourists targeted are out late at night, in remote areas, or exhibit signs of being under the influence. Using simple common sense can significantly reduce the likeliness of becoming a victim. This applies to all cities not just Cancun.

However, IMO, if someone has a bad gut feeling, then don't go. I can't imagine it would be much fun if one sat in their room the entire time out of fear of being victimized.

:)

Are those supposed to be comforting words?
Of all places, I just came back from a wonderful weekend in Mexico City where I shopped to my heart's content thanks to the great exchange rate and enjoyed the excellent food and many excellent sights. Cancun should be no different.

PropWasher. If you are so concerned about the happenings in Mexico, as other posters have suggested, by all means go elsewhere, as it seems there is not much any of us can tell you to comfort you or change your mind.

When you are in Mexico, please remember you are not in the Canada, or Switzerland or Japan, however, remember it isn't Somalia or Afghanistan either. Things work differently sometimes because it IS different, that is why people venture out of their countries. Simply be aware of your surroundings, don't do anything blatantly illegal and you'll have a great time.

Just spent a week in Guadalajara with my 15 year old son. Never felt uncomfortable @ anytime. Blend in - try to communicate in Espanol - do your homework ahead of time.

My "Chivas FC" cap was an instant conversation starter.

A gringo that could "habla FUTBOL" was a real novelty for the locals.

Just tell them your brother is David Beckham!!

The State Department advisory tells U.S. citizens how best to remain safe. From the State Dept website updated on Mexico issues:

"While millions of U.S. citizens safely visit Mexico each year (including thousands who cross the land border every day for study, tourism or business), violence in the country has increased recently. It is imperative that travelers understand the risks of travel to Mexico, how best to avoid dangerous situations, and whom to contact if one becomes a crime victim. Common-sense precautions such as visiting only legitimate business and tourist areas during daylight hours, and avoiding areas where prostitution and drug dealing might occur, can help ensure that travel to Mexico is safe and enjoyable."

I have tickets to spend next weekend in Cancun and vicinity and am going. News reports and what I hear here gives the assurance that this is OK. There are risks everywhere and this place does not seem to be any more risky than going to any other 'troubled' spot.

For perspective, a group of us went to India in Dec 2008 (soon after the terrorist attack in Mumbai over Thanksgiving). By taking the usual tourist precautions, we had a wonderful time on our tour of the country.

Mexico is safe. If you are not in the narco-trafficking business, you are not a target. And no, Mexico is not a "failed" state. Just consider the current violence as a Lean Six Sigma process to better serve **YOU**, the US, in bringing **YOU**, the world's biggest drug addict, the narcotics that **YOU** demand. When these wars are over, the supply process will be streamlined and **YOU** will get much better service ;)

All kidding aside, I've been riding my motorcycle down into Mexico from Houston, solo. I find it very safe. In fact I find it safer than the US.

Here's a few of my ride reports, pictures included:

I Do The Three Sisters and Flee to Mexico (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=435982) Mexico is in the second half of this report. The Three Sisters are actually roads, not women.

A Few Days into Mexico (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412593)

I have never had a problem with police or customs/immigration authorities in Mexico. On the contrary, they have been very helpful in a variety of situations.

Well I am headed over to have a long, beachy weekend and practice my Spanish within the next month or two, so if any locals or frequent visitors have suggestions on the following please feel free to post or PM me:

1) Will stay at the Marriott Courtyard which has a free shuttle from the airport and to the beach(es). Best beaches for not being solicited, annoyed? Safe to be sola?

2) Cool beverages & snacks at reasonable prices nearby?

3) Any chairs/chaises available for rental?

4) Rental of kitesurfing or windsurfing rigs? Kitesurfing lessons?

5) Horseback riding?

6) Reasonable dining recommendations for me, sola?

Thank you and very best regards! -w

Here's a good blog post about what the risks are really like (http://travel.booklocker.com/2009/03/06/the-real-travel-story-mexico/) outside of the border towns.

And Budget Travel has some 250 comments about this subject now (http://current.newsweek.com/budgettravel/2009/03/mexico_the_elusive_truth_about.html), including lots on Cancun being perfectly fine.

....snippagio....We did pay a well deserved fine of $40 USD to a very polite/pleasant police officer who stopped us in the CUN hotel zone doing perhaps 70 kph on a 40 kph zone, (we hadn't seen the signs and were very eager to get out of the hotel zone) It was either pay on the spot or surrender our driver's license and go to the station to fill paperwork/pay. ...sn...we paid and thanked him and drove off sedately. (*Note - I had no issue with the fine, nor the police officer. We had been speeding, deserved the fine (would have cost much more in the US) and he was very professional)

Depends upon his actual profession....I am amused at evidence that the Mexico of the Old Days continues to exist and now and again proves itself to the tourist/traveler.

Fine? Fine? We don' need no steenkin' bodges!

That was "mordida". The odds that that "Fine" will ever cross a traffic court's ledger are between slim and none, although a portion may accrue to a senior policeperson. That's been a part of the system in Mexico for many decades, as apparent to John Ford when he made "TotSM" as it is today, no matter the obliviousness of the poster.

In continuation of the thread.....

Mexico is not as bad off as the US media would have you believe. On the other hand, life in some of the border cities, especially Juarez and Nuevo Laredo is an edgy proposition. The new presence of the Army in great numbers in these cities does and will help (hopefully), but the potential for abuses, theft and looting by soldiers has much to do with military pay and the level of sophistication of most conscripts - low.

As for Cancun and the principal tourist destinations, because the narco cartels and their allies, witting and unwitting, willing and unwilling, throughout Mexico have a vested interest in tourists coming and spending money, the cartels (as the Mafia so often did in the US) work to keep the lid on in those cities, actually often punishing or murdering) petty criminals who trespass upon cartel activities. Then there's the "landlord issue"....The big narcos (like capitalists everywhere) have to invest their profits, and a nice high rise ora few rental condo units in Cancun may be funded by the glittering snowflakes exported al Norte.

In the Yucatan at the end of December, we did see a modestly increased military presence and what looked to be stepped up check point activity.

...That was "mordida". The odds that that "Fine" will ever cross a traffic court's ledger are between slim and none...

Nope. Not "mordida" at all. The person was speeding. The normal procedure is to remove the plates from the offending vehicle. The perpetrator can then go the police station to pay the fine and retrieve the plates. It's like this in most Latin America countries.

Now, sometimes Gringos who are inconvenienced by this procedure often offer to pay a fine right on the spot simply because they do not want to go through the normal procedure that everyone else in Mexico goes through of having to go to the police station. Of course in the Gringo's arrogant mind he was being extorted, but in fact it is the Gringo who is offering the bribe. The policeman who caught him speeding is not asking.

So let's say you are caught speeding in Alabama by Officer Dueling Banjos on your drive from L.A. to Miami. Are you going to stick around to contest the ticket, or are you just going to mail in or offer to pay the fine on the spot?

The whole concept of "mordida" is laughable when it comes to traffic cops stopping visiting Gringos who are speeding. When "mordida" does happen, it happens at a much higher level and usually does not involve tourists.

....snippagio....The whole concept of "mordida" is laughable when it comes to traffic cops stopping visiting Gringos who are speeding. When "mordida" does happen, it happens at a much higher level and usually does not involve tourists.

....and just what odds are you willing to quote that the "fine" did not remain in the traffic policeman's pocket and actually became a part of official receipts and was deposited into the local government's coffers?

I've no problem with the transaction and the chain of events. On the other hand, I wouldn't have much more confidence in handling $40.00 to a rural LEO in Alabama. In fact, on experience, personal and of others, I'd rate many towns in LA as about equally equipped with fiscal integrity as some Mexican jurisdictions with which I'm familiar.

....and just what odds are you willing to quote that the "fine" did not remain in the traffic policeman's pocket and actually became a part of official receipts and was deposited into the local government's coffers?
Actually there is a good probability that the money did make it back to the station. I have seen it arrive. Just how much talking and interaction have you done with police officials in Mexico? I sense from your response you are cynical on this issue.

I've no problem with the transaction and the chain of events. On the other hand, I wouldn't have much more confidence in handling $40.00 to a rural LEO in Alabama. In fact, on experience, personal and of others, I'd rate many towns in LA as about equally equipped with fiscal integrity as some Mexican jurisdictions with which I'm familiar.
In South Carolina one has the option to pay on the spot if one is a transient (unless they have changed the rule). However, your sentiment about the LEO in Alabama brings out a good point. Fix one's own country before criticizing the countries of others, especially when one is there as a guest and has no real knowledge of whether a "mordida" is being demanded or not.

Actually there is a good probability that the money did make it back to the station. I have seen it arrive. Just how much talking and interaction have you done with police officials in Mexico? I sense from your response you are cynical on this issue.

In South Carolina one has the option to pay on the spot if one is a transient (unless they have changed the rule). However, your sentiment about the LEO in Alabama brings out a good point. Fix one's own country before criticizing the countries of others, especially when one is there as a guest and has no real knowledge of whether a "mordida" is being demanded or not.


My cynicism is based on many years of visiting/traveling in Mexico and a fair amount of exposure to Mexican government and law enforcement agencies and personnel. Long ago, I lived for most of a grand Summer in Cordoba, VC, with family friends. Even in semi-retirement, I have a half dozen clients in the Valley and am there several times a year. My immediate family "vacations" in Mexico frequently, in 2008 no more than cruise port calls in Yucatan, but in 2006, two weeks in Patzcuaro and Morelia.

As for Alabama and Louisiana, undoubtedly they have contributed to my cynicism (and low expectations for fines paid on the spot in Mexico - or in parts of the US). Back in my banking days, the "confiscation" of a vehicle in LA basically required the payment of a bribe to a local sheriff to recover a vehicle on which the bank I worked for had a lien. I'm sure (or mostly so) that the money went for semi-official purposes, but it was still extortionate). In Alabama, only a personal relationship with a government official led to the revelation that a rural deputy had taken the funds from a "pay and go on your way" ticket issued to a niece, a UofA student, for his own use.

Don't get me wrong. I would not begrudge the Mexican policeman keeping the ticket money. Lord knows, the pay scale for most police was for decades - and may still be - predicated on personal revenue-enhancement, and you're right, senior officials being paid larger amounts qualifies as mordida. A serious problem facing the use of Mexican Army personnel in Juarez, etc., will be the pay scales of conscript sioldiers and their exposure to the goods, services and temptations of the big city.

I guess that attitudinally I recognize that the uniformed, badged, gun-toting guy outside the restaurant to whom we hand a dollar or two too "watch" our parked cars really isn't taking a bribe, and that the cops in Yucatan and other locales do carry the cash to the front desk of the station (and where it goes from there may be subject to question), but ever since, 1958 or so, "buying" a friend out of the barbed wire enclosure set up behind the Villa Acuna jail for George Washington's Birthday and the flood of Texans celebrating same, my cynicism has grown. After all, it was the policeman who took Sunday breakfast with us (and the ladies of the staff) in the courtyard of the Blue Parrot nightclub and brothel who suggested that a cash contribution would speed the release of a driver who had done no more than navigate a traffic circle at too high a speed, causing his Renault Dauphin's to fall on its side, easily righted by the passengers.

But then, I once bought a camel's hair sportcoat from a guy in NYC, standing in front of a Midtown men's store, heavily discounted for cash up front. Was it legit? Quien sabe?

Still, I think the perception of the "mordida" seeking cop is way overblown. Like you I have been to Mexico many times, both for business and pleasure. In all these years I have not run into any "mordida" experiences. This includes working with large operations such as Pemex. In fact Pemex helped on an audit with a subcontractor who was involved in some unethical business practices.

With the police, or customs and immigration officials, I have never had an incident. In fact the opposite. They have gone out of their way to assist me on a variety of issues. However, it could just be me. Perhaps its all in the way one carries oneself.

Lately I have been riding my motorcycle across the Texas border down deep into the country visiting a host of small towns. Never a Gringo seen. One practice I have found is to either stop at the police station or the main church and find out the best places for lodging and eats. These guys (cops or priests) know everything in these small towns. Very friendly. In one town the local police recommended a nice restaurant for dinner. Later that evening he was in the restaurant with the mayor and the local priest. They invited me over to their table for dinner. Long conversations into the night. Makes traveling like this worthwhile ^

relax and enjoy
will be at the IC in couple of weeks myself

I was there earlier this month. Again, nothing out of the ordinary from any of the other times I've been there over the past few years. :)

To digress from the lively discussion on the cops,

Just came back from a lovely trip to Cancun. Flights in and out were almost on time and immigration was easy - even comical.

Weather was great and the hotel in the strip was convenient, clean and cool.

Crime was invisible and the guided tours to the ancient sites were smooth. The tour guides were good to average and language was not an issue.

Overall - a great time. Thanks to everyone for their tips/suggestions.

Just came back from Cancun last week. I could tell no difference from previous trips. I felt safe at all times.