Korean Air Skypass - Korean Air 77W info + Bangkok from 02JUN09 (as of 26FEB09)

NOTICE. AS PER 12MAY09 GDS timetable display, Korean Air has SHELVED the plan to operate 77W to BKK


As per 26FEB09 GDS timetable display, Korean Air has loaded First Boeing 777-300ER Route (http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/2009/02/korean-air-777-300er-makes-bangkok.html): Bangkok

777-300ER operation starts 02JUN09 on KE653/654

KE653/654
29MAR09 - 31MAY09 744 Daily
01JUN09 - 31AUG09 744 Day 1357 77W Day 246 (BKK departure following day)
01SEP09 - 24OCT09 77W Day x1 772 Day 1 (BKK departure following day)

Configuration (http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/2009/02/korean-air-new-777-300er-configuration.html) of the 77W is:


First Class 8 Seats
Rows 1 - 2
Layout 1 - 2 - 1 (A - DE - J)

Prestige Class 56 Seats
Rows 7 - 15 (No Row 13)
Layout 2 - 3 - 2 (AB - DEF - HJ)
Wings Section Row 10 - 12

Economy Class 227 Seats
Rows 28 - 53
Layout 3 - 3 - 3 (ABC - DEF - GHJ)
Wings Section Row 28 - 34
Exceptions
Row 41 ABC - GHJ
Row 52 AB - DEF - HJ
Row 53 AB - DEF - HJ

Nice, this new plane may be fitted with new generation lie-flats (KE recently said they will be upgrading their current generation F and C seats)?

Apparently they will have new F suites, and the lie-flat bed config in C that goes fully horizontal (like QF A380).

Very surprising. This route is rarely full in Business, and First Class often has no more than one or two pax, if any.

Maybe it's operated as acclimatisation/training flights which allows them to use just one aircraft for the roundtrip. I'm sure they will deploy them on the USA/Europe routes soon.

As per 26FEB09 GDS timetable display, Korean Air has loaded First Boeing 777-300ER Route (http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/2009/02/korean-air-777-300er-makes-bangkok.html): Bangkok

777-300ER operation starts 02JUN09 on KE653/654

KE653/654
29MAR09 - 31MAY09 744 Daily


I'm quite surprised that KE has upgauged from crappy old 773 to 744 on ICN-BKK. I am currently on the earlier flight on 3/30, so I will try to switch to the later (744) flight.
They are still only selling J/Y, so it looks like the F seats will either fly out empty or go to Morning Calm Super-Elites and/or Full-Fare pax.
Maybe bobbybrown knows if they will be using the OLD 744 or the medium-old one, or one with new F/J?
Anyone?
Thanks!

According to very brief article at traveltimes.co.kr, KE081/082, daytime ICN-JFK-ICN, might be switched to 77W, although not uploaded to any system yet. 77W to run 3/w for June~August, and daily from September. Since BKK is at day 246, JFK will be 357 or 135. And I guess one more 77W comes on Sep or late Aug. 3 77W is coming this year - let's see who's next.

By the way the 77W on BKK service is only selling J and Y

Korean Air is introducing Boeing 777-300ER service on the Seoul - New York JFK KE081/082 flight from 03JUN09, on Wed/Fri/Sun

By the way the 77W on BKK service is only selling J and Y

Don't be too sure about that: On most intra-Asia routes, KE only have J and Y for sale on most booking systems, but if you call KE, only KE can see (and sell) F. I asked about this for the 747-400 on ICN-BKK starting at the end of this month, in fact, and although F isn't for sale anywhere, you CAN buy it via KE.

Korean Air is introducing Boeing 777-300ER service on the Seoul - New York JFK KE081/082 flight from 03JUN09, on Wed/Fri/Sun

my family and i are booked for KE082 on July 10th which is a Friday. so looks like i'll be experiencing KE's new 77W

question: will they have the new looking y class seats on the 77W? i saw a pic of it somewhere in flickr (link:http://www.flickr.com/photos/merlintong/2869381764/in/photostream/) the monitors look bigger and the remote is below the screen instead of the armrest.

i read on a news blog that first class won't be for sale on this plane.

how many 77W's will KE have by July??

question: will they have the new looking y class seats on the 77W? i saw a pic of it somewhere in flickr (link:http://www.flickr.com/photos/merlintong/2869381764/in/photostream/) the monitors look bigger and the remote is below the screen instead of the armrest.

i haven't taken korean air in the longest so i wouldn't know. but im taking it this summer on july 12th, sunday. those seats look different from the one in the korean air website. are those new?? will they be on my flight? im also on KE082 that leaves in the afternoon.

my family and i are booked for KE082 on July 10th which is a Friday. so looks like i'll be experiencing KE's new 77W

question: will they have the new looking y class seats on the 77W? i saw a pic of it somewhere in flickr (link:http://www.flickr.com/photos/merlintong/2869381764/in/photostream/) the monitors look bigger and the remote is below the screen instead of the armrest.

i read on a news blog that first class won't be for sale on this plane.

how many 77W's will KE have by July??

KE probably have 1 77W by July. 2nd to arrive by August allowing daily BKK/JFK from Sep.

Anyone want to speculate what will happen after Oct 24?

I'm booked on KE654 in late November on a Sunday morning and it is showing the old aircraft.

KE probably have 1 77W by July. 2nd to arrive by August allowing daily BKK/JFK from Sep.

the 77W operating the bangkok route..is that the same exact plane that will be flying to JFK 3 times a week thats starting in June??

the 77W operating the bangkok route..is that the same exact plane that will be flying to JFK 3 times a week thats starting in June??

Looks like it is. Operating pattern is ICN - BKK - ICN - JFK - ICN. Otherwise operating 1 Daily long-haul would require 1.5 - 2 planes

Anyone want to speculate what will happen after Oct 24?

I'm booked on KE654 in late November on a Sunday morning and it is showing the old aircraft.

They haven't update the 2009/10 Winter schedule yet. They just finalized the summer schedule till last week

anyone know where the exit row seats are in economy for the new 77W???? my agent booked my flight n i got row 40. i looked at expedia but their seat maps are kind of hard to figure out

anyone know where the exit row seats are in economy for the new 77W???? my agent booked my flight n i got row 40. i looked at expedia but their seat maps are kind of hard to figure out



you can't get exit row seat in advance

thanks for the reply =) i checked expedia. all the exit rows are occupied

thanks for the reply =) i checked expedia. all the exit rows are occupied



Not occupied, but they are BLOCKED.

When I booked Korean, R/T from ATL - BKK, they were flying a B744 from ATL-ICN-ATL and a B777 from ICN-BKK-ICN. Since there were five of us it was difficult enough to get seats all together much less decent seats.

The B744 flight, March 4th, was primarily a cattlecar in Y class. 18+ hours. Very uncomfortable to say the least. I don't know if this plane had the new seating arrangement, with more legroom, but it did have AVOD in the seatbacks. If this aircraft did include the new seat pitch then Korean unfortunately has not done anything different for it's Y class customers.

The B777 flight was much better and gave decent legroom. Too bad they can't use the B777 on the ATL-ICN route.

Korean called recently to tell me that they had changed the aircraft, for the May 5th flight BKK-ICN, from the B777 to a B744. Of course the seat map is not the same. Already had good seating for the return flights and now had to accept alternate seating that is not as good. Have no idea why they changed aircraft. Can't believe they can fill up a B774 from Bangkok to Seoul. The B777 was only 70% full.

Another thing is that I have way over 100,000 FF miles with Delta and could not use them R/T from ATL-BKK no matter what partnering airlines were involved. Tried everything and could find nothing. Sure, if you want to fly Air France through Paris for 240,000 FF Miles then they may have something. Since Korean is one of their partnering airlines I would have figured that Skymiles seats would have been available.

I'm beginning to think that the FF miles programs are a total fraud with all airlines. Maybe the FAA or Consumer Protection Agency should look into these bogus practices.

When I booked Korean, R/T from ATL - BKK, they were flying a B744 from ATL-ICN-ATL and a B777 from ICN-BKK-ICN. Since there were five of us it was difficult enough to get seats all together much less decent seats.

The B744 flight, March 4th, was primarily a cattlecar in Y class. 18+ hours. Very uncomfortable to say the least. I don't know if this plane had the new seating arrangement, with more legroom, but it did have AVOD in the seatbacks. If this aircraft did include the new seat pitch then Korean unfortunately has not done anything different for it's Y class customers.

The B777 flight was much better and gave decent legroom. Too bad they can't use the B777 on the ATL-ICN route.

Well, after all, it's still an economy seat and for 18+ hours of flying, it is going to be rather painful and uncomfortable. If you are a tall person, I can understand your frustrations. :(


Korean called recently to tell me that they had changed the aircraft, for the May 5th flight BKK-ICN, from the B777 to a B744. Of course the seat map is not the same. Already had good seating for the return flights and now had to accept alternate seating that is not as good. Have no idea why they changed aircraft. Can't believe they can fill up a B774 from Bangkok to Seoul. The B777 was only 70% full.

Korea-BKK route is very popular route and most of the time, economy is full (due to honeymooners and leisure travelers). Your one or two time flights on this route with one particular carrier does not provide any solid evidence as to the route cannot be serviced by a larger plane. Clearly, of my 30+ flights on this route with TG, OZ, and KE (which in total, approximately 8 daily flights), economy class has had very good load factor. And my observations are throughout different months of the year (Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, Aug, Sep, Nov, Dec).

Another thing is that I have way over 100,000 FF miles with Delta and could not use them R/T from ATL-BKK no matter what partnering airlines were involved. Tried everything and could find nothing. Sure, if you want to fly Air France through Paris for 240,000 FF Miles then they may have something. Since Korean is one of their partnering airlines I would have figured that Skymiles seats would have been available.

I'm beginning to think that the FF miles programs are a total fraud with all airlines. Maybe the FAA or Consumer Protection Agency should look into these bogus practices.

Well, I welcome you to the FT and hopefully you will be able to gain some information and experience on how to utilize your miles. The key idea is to be flexible. And 100,000 miles, while to most people is a lot of mileage, to FTers it is really not that much. ;)

A tip on DL miles... The 30K mile intra-asia award in business class, I repeat, business class, is the GEM of DL mileage chart. KE, NW, and CZ (I think China Southern) can be used for this award and KE usually has very good award availability for this. I have already utilized 5 of such award, including the one I am taking on Wednesday PVG-ICN-(BKK)-PUS, all on KE, using 30K DL miles. So, do some lurking and asking around in the DL forum on how to use your DL miles and you won't be as frustrated as before. :) Good luck!

When I booked Korean, R/T from ATL - BKK, they were flying a B744 from ATL-ICN-ATL and a B777 from ICN-BKK-ICN. Since there were five of us it was difficult enough to get seats all together much less decent seats.

The B744 flight, March 4th, was primarily a cattlecar in Y class. 18+ hours. Very uncomfortable to say the least. I don't know if this plane had the new seating arrangement, with more legroom, but it did have AVOD in the seatbacks. If this aircraft did include the new seat pitch then Korean unfortunately has not done anything different for it's Y class customers.

The B777 flight was much better and gave decent legroom. Too bad they can't use the B777 on the ATL-ICN route.

Korean called recently to tell me that they had changed the aircraft, for the May 5th flight BKK-ICN, from the B777 to a B744. Of course the seat map is not the same. Already had good seating for the return flights and now had to accept alternate seating that is not as good. Have no idea why they changed aircraft. Can't believe they can fill up a B774 from Bangkok to Seoul. The B777 was only 70% full.

Another thing is that I have way over 100,000 FF miles with Delta and could not use them R/T from ATL-BKK no matter what partnering airlines were involved. Tried everything and could find nothing. Sure, if you want to fly Air France through Paris for 240,000 FF Miles then they may have something. Since Korean is one of their partnering airlines I would have figured that Skymiles seats would have been available.

I'm beginning to think that the FF miles programs are a total fraud with all airlines. Maybe the FAA or Consumer Protection Agency should look into these bogus practices.



As far as I know, there has been no seating reconfiguration at all for both 747s and 777s. All KE's widebodies have 34' pitch for Y, which is better than their American competitors; DL(NW) and UA which configure Y with 31' pitch.

Also, ATL-ICN does not last 18+ hours. Probably around 16 hours at most.

Well, after all, it's still an economy seat and for 18+ hours of flying, it is going to be rather painful and uncomfortable. If you are a tall person, I can understand your frustrations. :(



I am only 5' 9" and my wife is 5'. Still uncomfortable. Would hate to be over 6' tall and weigh more than 150 lbs. That would be unbearable.


Korea-BKK route is very popular route and most of the time, economy is full (due to honeymooners and leisure travelers). Your one or two time flights on this route with one particular carrier does not provide any solid evidence as to the route cannot be serviced by a larger plane. Clearly, of my 30+ flights on this route with TG, OZ, and KE (which in total, approximately 8 daily flights), economy class has had very good load factor. And my observations are throughout different months of the year (Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, Aug, Sep, Nov, Dec).



I was not trying to provide solid evidence for anything. Was simply stating an observation. I don't really care why Korean changed their aircraft. Would have been nice to know in advance so that the 5 seats I booked could have been reallocated based upon configuration differences between aircraft.



Well, I welcome you to the FT and hopefully you will be able to gain some information and experience on how to utilize your miles. The key idea is to be flexible. And 100,000 miles, while to most people is a lot of mileage, to FTers it is really not that much. ;)

A tip on DL miles... The 30K mile intra-asia award in business class, I repeat, business class, is the GEM of DL mileage chart. KE, NW, and CZ (I think China Southern) can be used for this award and KE usually has very good award availability for this. I have already utilized 5 of such award, including the one I am taking on Wednesday PVG-ICN-(BKK)-PUS, all on KE, using 30K DL miles. So, do some lurking and asking around in the DL forum on how to use your DL miles and you won't be as frustrated as before. :) Good luck!



Appreciate that you are a FF as am I. I am currently retired. However, my work took me all over the planet and I had managed to get all sorts of upgrades and perks while I was working. I have been a member of the Delta Skymiles program for maybe 30 years or so and during those times was treated very well by Delta and their partnering airlines. However, as of the last 3 or 4 years Delta IMO has become a bottom feeder along with some of it's partners. They have also become an airline that is fraudulent in its practices, especially with its Skymiles program. According to Delta's Skymiles program schedule you should be able to utilize 30,000, 60,000, or 90,000 Skymiles to fly R/T from anywhere in the US to Southeast Asia. This is an impossibility and Delta knows it. It's deceptive advertising and Delta should be forced to change their Skymiles program rules accordingly or be investigated and/or prosecuted by the Consumer Protection Agency. Since, through mergers and additions to it's Skymiles program, Delta has become the largest airline in the world, they now have control over so many other airlines procedures. Luckily I am old enough whereby I might not fly again. That suits me fine considering the disregard most airlines these days have for their customers.

Hello to all :) I'm a newbie here. I am also taking Korean Air this summer. It's my first time actually taking this airline. I've heard many great things about this airline regarding their service in economy class from some friends who take Korean Air. When I go back to my homeland (Philippines), I usually take Cathay Pacific or Asiana. But since my travel agent got me a low price for Korean Air, I couldn't resist. I booked flight KE082 for July 8th and the itinerary my agent provided me says the equipment is a 777-300ER (77W) from NYC-Seoul. Is this a new addition to the airline's fleet? What can I expect on this flight? Will there be AVOD in the Y Class seats? I hope the seat pitch is good!

As for the flight from Seoul to Cebu, it will be a A330-300. Do the economy class passengers have the luxury of having personal tv screens?

Well, after all, it's still an economy seat and for 18+ hours of flying, it is going to be rather painful and uncomfortable. If you are a tall person, I can understand your frustrations. :(




Korea-BKK route is very popular route and most of the time, economy is full (due to honeymooners and leisure travelers). Your one or two time flights on this route with one particular carrier does not provide any solid evidence as to the route cannot be serviced by a larger plane. Clearly, of my 30+ flights on this route with TG, OZ, and KE (which in total, approximately 8 daily flights), economy class has had very good load factor. And my observations are throughout different months of the year (Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, Aug, Sep, Nov, Dec).



Well, I welcome you to the FT and hopefully you will be able to gain some information and experience on how to utilize your miles. The key idea is to be flexible. And 100,000 miles, while to most people is a lot of mileage, to FTers it is really not that much. ;)

A tip on DL miles... The 30K mile intra-asia award in business class, I repeat, business class, is the GEM of DL mileage chart. KE, NW, and CZ (I think China Southern) can be used for this award and KE usually has very good award availability for this. I have already utilized 5 of such award, including the one I am taking on Wednesday PVG-ICN-(BKK)-PUS, all on KE, using 30K DL miles. So, do some lurking and asking around in the DL forum on how to use your DL miles and you won't be as frustrated as before. :) Good luck!

I guess that I would try to use 30K FFMs to upgrade. Or possibly most or all of my miles to upgrade for both legs if I were traveling alone. However, there are 5 of us traveling.

As far as I know, there has been no seating reconfiguration at all for both 747s and 777s. All KE's widebodies have 34' pitch for Y, which is better than their American competitors; DL(NW) and UA which configure Y with 31' pitch.

I agree that DL, NW, United, and some other American carriers configure their Y class so that your knees are pressed against your chest. Delightfull. However, the 34" pitch did not seem to make much of a difference. Afterall, we're talking about only 3 inches here. My beef is that airlines somehow feel that the 99% of its customers, traveling in Y class, should be relegated to a little more than 30 inches of room including the seat itself. Every airline should force it's senior staff and executives to fly Y class only no matter where they are flying. Things would definately change drastically about 2 days after that policy was implemented.

Also, ATL-ICN does not last 18+ hours. Probably around 16 hours at most.

Maybe it just felt like 18+ hours. 16 hours/18 hours. Who's counting?

Wow, KE seems to offer good deal indeed. There are many FTers taking KE from US to Philippine this summer. Your 77W will have AVOD with nice and roomy seat, but ICN-CEB won't have personal TV. Enjoy your trip!!

Hello to all :) I'm a newbie here. I am also taking Korean Air this summer. It's my first time actually taking this airline. I've heard many great things about this airline regarding their service in economy class from some friends who take Korean Air. When I go back to my homeland (Philippines), I usually take Cathay Pacific or Asiana. But since my travel agent got me a low price for Korean Air, I couldn't resist. I booked flight KE082 for July 8th and the itinerary my agent provided me says the equipment is a 777-300ER (77W) from NYC-Seoul. Is this a new addition to the airline's fleet? What can I expect on this flight? Will there be AVOD in the Y Class seats? I hope the seat pitch is good!

As for the flight from Seoul to Cebu, it will be a A330-300. Do the economy class passengers have the luxury of having personal tv screens?

Wow, KE seems to offer good deal indeed. There are many FTers taking KE from US to Philippine this summer. Your 77W will have AVOD with nice and roomy seat, but ICN-CEB won't have personal TV. Enjoy your trip!!

Thank you so much for the reply. I appreciate it! ;)

Yea, the deal Korean Air gave was something I could not turn down. I had to sacrifice my miles with Cathay :( but it's ok. I've been wanting to try out Korean Air since I have a lot of fellow Filipinos who take it and have great feedback about it.

I just wanted to make sure the new 777-300ER had AVOD in Economy Class for KE082. I assumed it would since it is a new aircraft, so it would make sense for it to have new type of seats as well. But I'm glad that you confirmed that there'll be AVOD on my flight! I see that this same exact plane will be flying to Bangkok as well? I really like the 777-300ER especially Cathay's. I love the sound of those loud engines when they start! Hehe

Thanks again! :D:-:

Korean Air put up a seating map of the 777-300ER (w/ Kosmo Suites) in their site
https://www.koreanair.com/etc/img/all/seatmap/777_300/b777300kosmo_eng.gif

What's the difference between the 'Kosmo Suites' to the 'Kosmo Sleeper'? There's nothing on the KE site regarding the 'Kosmo Suites'. Are the suites the new generation seats that they'll be launching soon to the public?

Thanks! Now I get to see where I'm sitting on the plane. :) Looks like the Lav is right behind me though so I might get limited recline.

The "Kosmo Suites" are most likely the new product for first class. Doesn't Korean Air get its first 77W next month? They probably posted the seat map early since its already showing for the JFK flights (KE081/082) on their schedule

Korean Air put up a seating map of the 777-300ER (w/ Kosmo Suites) in their site
https://www.koreanair.com/etc/img/all/seatmap/777_300/b777300kosmo_eng.gif

What's the difference between the 'Kosmo Suites' to the 'Kosmo Sleeper'? There's nothing on the KE site regarding the 'Kosmo Suites'. Are the suites the new generation seats that they'll be launching soon to the public?

Another thing is that I have way over 100,000 FF miles with Delta and could not use them R/T from ATL-BKK no matter what partnering airlines were involved. Tried everything and could find nothing. Sure, if you want to fly Air France through Paris for 240,000 FF Miles then they may have something. Since Korean is one of their partnering airlines I would have figured that Skymiles seats would have been available.

I'm beginning to think that the FF miles programs are a total fraud with all airlines. Maybe the FAA or Consumer Protection Agency should look into these bogus practices.

I think you're overstating your case a bit here. As a data point, I've been using DL SkyMiles to claim two or three First Class or Business Class award tickets on Singapore Airlines ATL-BKK every year since 2005. Have a look in the Delta forum and you'll find lots of info on how to use DL miles for award travel to Asia. I've had better luck with SQ than with KE, which unfortunately has award-travel blackout dates around the times I usually want to go. I've also flown KE ATL-ICN-BKK (and other routes) in Business and Economy and have had no complaints. I actually think KE is rather under-rated.

how many 77W's did KE order?

how many 77W's did KE order?

10.

3 is to be delivered this year

hmmm..i wonder if they're planning to convert the JFK midnight flight KE086 into a 77W too?

September is when KE082/081 will start operating with a 77W daily, correct?

I think you're overstating your case a bit here. As a data point, I've been using DL SkyMiles to claim two or three First Class or Business Class award tickets on Singapore Airlines ATL-BKK every year since 2005. Have a look in the Delta forum and you'll find lots of info on how to use DL miles for award travel to Asia. I've had better luck with SQ than with KE, which unfortunately has award-travel blackout dates around the times I usually want to go. I've also flown KE ATL-ICN-BKK (and other routes) in Business and Economy and have had no complaints. I actually think KE is rather under-rated.

Well, first thing is that you have to be a Delta Medallion member, either Silver, Gold, or Platinum to upgrade. I have regular Medallion member status as most of my miles were accumulated over a year ago and my Silver Medallion status expired.

Secondly, I had no idea that, as a premium Medallion member, you could upgrade on any other airline (including partnering airlines) except on Delta flights. This must be something that has changed recently.

Thirdly, you cannot utilize Skymiles to upgrade on any other airline except Delta. I confirmed that with Delta a few weeks ago. Also, if you want to use Skymiles to upgrade on Delta you have to have a full fare economy ticket which is about twice as expensive as a discount ticket.

It's nice to know that you have been able to utilize your Skymiles to get award tickets in Business or First Class, on partnering airlines and I assume also on Delta. Unfortunately, for the rest of the 99% traveling folks, this is not an option. 99% of traveling folks don't have corporations paying for full fare economy or even business and first class for them. That is probably the only reason that you and your fellow travelers can afford the outrageous costs associated with business or first class. Now, if I don't currently have enough Skymiles, according to Delta's rigged requirements that don't conform with their written policies, to obtain an economy class ticket US - Southeast Asia, then I sure as hell don't have enough Skymiles to obtain a business or First Class ticket, do I?

My beef is with Delta Airline's written policies that do not conform with what they actually practice. Can Delta show me 1 seat availability at any time, on their airline or any of their partnering airlines in economy class, wherein I can use 30K, 60K, or 90K worth of Skymiles R/T US - Southeast Asia? I actually sat at the computer 1 entire day and entered 100s of scenarios. I also called Delta's reservations department. Not 1 available seat for either 30K, 60K, or 90K on Delta or any of their partnering airlines. And, I tried booking up to a year in advance just for drill.

With regard to Korean Airlines. Again, my beef is not with KE's service, professionalism, on-time scheduling, the quality of its aircraft, etc. KE is as good or possibly somewhat better than most airlines in these catagories. Certainly they are lightyears better than just about any US carrier. My beef is not only Korean's but just about all carriers "cattlecar" seating in economy class. I don't care whether it's 31 inch seat pitch or 34 inch seat pitch. The absence of any type of comfort quality and the total disregard for their economy passengers would be shocking if it were not the norm in this industry.

If the airline industry were serious about service to their customers, which they are not as their priorities are all in the wrong place, they would get rid of both business and first class. Use the space to expand the economy class section and thereby give adequate comfort to all of its passengers. If it means charging a little bit more per ticket so be it. And, don't say that it can't be done for profit circumstances. I used to fly a lot in the Middle East. I flew Gulf Air, a major carrier, mostly in economy class. Their economy class was the most comfortable I have ever experienced. Plenty of legroom, wide soft seats, and a sense of space throughout the cabin. I was never uncomfortable flying from Bahrain to Europe. And, Gulf also had business and first class cabins.

I used to work in the airline industry for a major private carrier with over 75 aircraft. Never have I seen such a total lack of caring as I see these days. Most of the airlines would go out of business if it were not for government subsidies and they would deserve to. Let's clue the airlines in to the human condition that exists in 2009. Most of the world practices egalitarian principals, or at least makes an effort to. We no longer have royalty in most countries. Dukes, Earls, and Princes are out of style. Certainly the US has a history of rejecting class systems. Why then do these airlines continue to perpetuate a class system in their mode of transportation which does not serve any equitable purpose except to please the very few and make the rest uncomfortable and as a result pretty angry.

saw a picture of KE's new 77W on a different forum. the pic was taken at boeing's hq in WA. the logo on the engine is bigger than usual.

saw a picture of KE's new 77W on a different forum. the pic was taken at boeing's hq in WA. the logo on the engine is bigger than usual.

yup, moonm from flickr also took some pix of it as well. registration is HL7782

It looks like the 77W flights are showing up on NW for WP redemptions, given they are one of the few true flatbed options on Skyteam this will be a good option to check out. But why the 2x3x2 layout? If you're going to go fully flat, why not get rid of the middle seat too?
BTW, anyone with pictures of these new seats?

Well, first thing is that you have to be a Delta Medallion member, either Silver, Gold, or Platinum to upgrade. I have regular Medallion member status as most of my miles were accumulated over a year ago and my Silver Medallion status expired.

You have to be a Medallion to get complimentary domestic upgrades. You do not have to be a Medallion to use miles to upgrade on either domestic or international flights. I don't know what you mean by "regular Medallion," if your Silver status has expired. Medallion is the elite level, and you're either Silver, Gold, Platinum, or not a Medallion at all.

Secondly, I had no idea that, as a premium Medallion member, you could upgrade on any other airline (including partnering airlines) except on Delta flights. This must be something that has changed recently.

Thirdly, you cannot utilize Skymiles to upgrade on any other airline except Delta. I confirmed that with Delta a few weeks ago. Also, if you want to use Skymiles to upgrade on Delta you have to have a full fare economy ticket which is about twice as expensive as a discount ticket.

Again, confused as to the meaning of "premium Medallion." You can use SkyMiles to upgrade on certain partners, such as Singapore. I believe it's available on Air France too. No, you do not have to buy a full-fare economy ticket to upgrade. Domestic upgrades are available in Y, B, M, H, Q, or K fare classes. K is not altogether expensive on some routes. It might be double a deeply discounted sale fare in T class, true, but most K fares are not exactly crazy if you consider you're getting the upgrade confirmed. For international, you can upgrade from Y, B, or M fares on Delta. Y is full-fare economy. M is usually somewhere in the range of half of full-fare economy. Y USA-Europe might run around $4000, M usually around $2200. Depending on seasons, you can get so-called "discounted" fares for $1000 or even less, if you hunt around. More or less the same to Asia.

As for award seat availability using SkyMiles on Delta and its partners, including Korean Air, see this thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-skymiles/483860-award-ticket-success-post-here.html) with over 1000 posts regarding success finding award seats.

It's nice to know that you have been able to utilize your Skymiles to get award tickets in Business or First Class, on partnering airlines and I assume also on Delta. Unfortunately, for the rest of the 99% traveling folks, this is not an option. 99% of traveling folks don't have corporations paying for full fare economy or even business and first class for them. That is probably the only reason that you and your fellow travelers can afford the outrageous costs associated with business or first class. Now, if I don't currently have enough Skymiles, according to Delta's rigged requirements that don't conform with their written policies, to obtain an economy class ticket US - Southeast Asia, then I sure as hell don't have enough Skymiles to obtain a business or First Class ticket, do I?

I don't use my Skymiles for awards on Delta. Earn on Delta, burn on Singapore or Korean Air. With a few exceptions for business travel from time to time, I pay for my own tickets with my own cash. No corporation has ever paid for me to fly Business. I have paid my own way in Business and, on rare occasion, in First. You just have to be a careful shopper. Pre-merger Northwest used to run fare sales in discounted business class USA-Asia for under $3000. I hope Delta does the same. Thanks to FlyerTalk, I purchased an upcoming Business Class ticket through a travel agent and paid a little over half of what Northwest wanted for the same ticket at nwa.com. FlyerTalk has also pointed me toward a number of other good fares and good strategies for finding good fares.

If the airline industry were serious about service to their customers, which they are not as their priorities are all in the wrong place, they would get rid of both business and first class. Use the space to expand the economy class section and thereby give adequate comfort to all of its passengers. If it means charging a little bit more per ticket so be it. And, don't say that it can't be done for profit circumstances. I used to fly a lot in the Middle East. I flew Gulf Air, a major carrier, mostly in economy class. Their economy class was the most comfortable I have ever experienced. Plenty of legroom, wide soft seats, and a sense of space throughout the cabin. I was never uncomfortable flying from Bahrain to Europe. And, Gulf also had business and first class cabins.

I used to work in the airline industry for a major private carrier with over 75 aircraft. Never have I seen such a total lack of caring as I see these days. Most of the airlines would go out of business if it were not for government subsidies and they would deserve to. Let's clue the airlines in to the human condition that exists in 2009. Most of the world practices egalitarian principals, or at least makes an effort to. We no longer have royalty in most countries. Dukes, Earls, and Princes are out of style. Certainly the US has a history of rejecting class systems. Why then do these airlines continue to perpetuate a class system in their mode of transportation which does not serve any equitable purpose except to please the very few and make the rest uncomfortable and as a result pretty angry.

Airlines eliminating First and Business class altogether, particularly for long-haul international travel, just isn't going to happen. First might go, as it has on Delta and certain other carriers, but some premium class is going to be around for a long time. I won't get into the class warfare aspect of these comments.

Now, what all this has to do with Korean Air's new 77W ICN-BKK is beyond me.

Here are the new generation seats that Korean Air will be launching with the 77W

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/80/l_51f098c8f6034f468716234b2df2d2fd.jpg
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/70/l_0cc748a26ec0440b9cc2f235bf2eaa8e.jpg
(pictures courtesy of the korean air myspace)

the first class looks way different from the current one. but the new business class looks pretty much the same except wider and it can go 180 degree lie-flat

the first class looks way different from the current one. but the new business class looks pretty much the same except wider and it can go 180 degree lie-flat

Agreed. I wonder how much of a modification of the existing seats the new business seats will be. Can they keep the basic structure of the existing seats, spread them out a bit more, and adjust the reclining mechanism? Or do they have to rip 'em out entirely and put in brand new stuff? The existing seats are fairly new (some might tut-tut about being last-generation), so it'd be a shame to have to dispose of them.

Agreed. I wonder how much of a modification of the existing seats the new business seats will be. Can they keep the basic structure of the existing seats, spread them out a bit more, and adjust the reclining mechanism? Or do they have to rip 'em out entirely and put in brand new stuff? The existing seats are fairly new (some might tut-tut about being last-generation), so it'd be a shame to have to dispose of them.

i think they're putting the new generation seats on newer aircrafts and on older aircrafts that haven't been refitted yet like the A330's and the other 777's

looks like KE is increasing the "Korean Air" letters on their newer aircrafts. there's a thread in airliners.net about it and imo it looks good. it doesn't look so bad like some people are saying. i saw a pic of KE's new 77W as well and it looks like they've increased the logo size on the engines also. which i also think looks good

looks like KE is increasing the "Korean Air" letters on their newer aircrafts. there's a thread in airliners.net about it and imo it looks good. it doesn't look so bad like some people are saying. i saw a pic of KE's new 77W as well and it looks like they've increased the logo size on the engines also. which i also think looks good

Link to photos? I searched airliners.net and didn't spot any.

Link to photos? I searched airliners.net and didn't spot any.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7039/img0508m.jpg

and here's the config. map...

http://www.koreanair.com/etc/img/all/seatmap/777_300/b777300kosmo_eng.gif

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7039/img0508m.jpg

and here's the config. map...

http://www.koreanair.com/etc/img/all/seatmap/777_300/b777300kosmo_eng.gif

Good stuff. ^^ Thanks for the links.

here's another link: http://paineairport.com/kpae2001.htm

there are also more pix at flickr.com

just search "Korean Air HL7782"

anyone know when KE will be receiving that 77W (HL7782)? Sometime this month right?

anyone know when KE will be receiving that 77W (HL7782)? Sometime this month right?

most likely later this month since it starts service to BKK and JFK this June

In 2009/10 Winter season, KE 77W operation:

Seoul - Hong Kong
KE603/604, Day 357

http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/2009/05/korean-air-200910-winter-operation.html

Seoul - New York JFK
KE081/082, Daily
KE085/086, Day 357

http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/2009/05/korean-air-777-300er-operation-in.html

I am flying KE654 (BKK-ICN) on 26AUG and wondering if this will be operated with the new 77W. The seat map in Amadeus is still showing the old 773 config, so I thought I'd ask here...

I am flying KE654 (BKK-ICN) on 26AUG and wondering if this will be operated with the new 77W. The seat map in Amadeus is still showing the old 773 config, so I thought I'd ask here...

According to the skyteam timetable, KE654 will be operated by a 77W. But I doubled checked on Expedia, and its coming up as the old 773. Someone correct me if I'm wrong

Korean Air has decided not to fly 77W to BKK

Korean Air has decided not to fly 77W to BKK

Awww. So does that mean the 77W will go daily to JFK instead of 3x weekly from 3JUN09?

anyone know when KE will be receiving that 77W (HL7782)? Sometime this month right?

Just read on pugetsoundlogs.blogspot.com that KE's 777-300ER reg.HL7782 had its first flight out of Paine on May 4th. Delivery will be May 21st

Korean Air has decided not to fly 77W to BKK

That would explain why I am seeing the old seat map... :(

i wonder why they decided to drop it :(

Awww. So does that mean the 77W will go daily to JFK instead of 3x weekly from 3JUN09?

no. still 3 weekly JFK for now from 03JUN09 to 31AUG09.

I went on expedia and travelocity to see availability of seats on KE82 for July 10 and the business class seat map is coming up same as the first class section. I know there's more J class seats than F

New premium seats on the JFK-ICN flight (KE082/777-300ER)

http://www.koreanair.com/local/na/img/news/newseat_eng.jpg

Wow. Bigger screen and finally slim seat in Y! Seatmap says 33-34" pitch, so much bigger room will be offered!

The new Y looks like the Weber aircrafts seats SQ and EK currently use in their economy class. If I'm not mistaken I think the new Y and J are already fitted on current 777-200ER's

777-300ER will be operating service to Ho Chi Minh starting 02JUN09, on Day 246. (Day 1357 is 744)

From 01SEP09, 777-300ER service increase to 6 weekly (Day x1)

Anyone know when KE will be getting their 2nd 77W?

I wonder if this 77W will have the new Thales AVOD that Korean Air got for the second phase of refurbishing.

I'm booked for KE this July in Economy cause of the cheap fare my travel agent was able to get me. Anyone know how the load usually is during July for JFK-ICN?

just browsin' through facebook and came across a korean air page. here's an album featuring cabin pictures of the 777-300ER and new seats.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1562961&id=40926477823&ref=mf#/album.php?aid=68244&id=40926477823

I was expecting the new first class to be bigger

just browsin' through facebook and came across a korean air page. here's an album featuring cabin pictures of the 777-300ER and new seats.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1562961&id=40926477823&ref=mf#/album.php?aid=68244&id=40926477823

I was expecting the new first class to be bigger



It looks like the economy class tv screens are angled at the corner and not rounded like the other new ones on the 772er.

It looks like the economy class tv screens are angled at the corner and not rounded like the other new ones on the 772er.

the new seats on the 772ER are fitted with Panasonic eX2 IFE while the 777-300ER and newer planes will have the Thales system. i think the 777's and A330's that will be refitted will also have Thales.

77W's F/C class has different booking class. Old style F is F, cocoon style is P, and 77W's first class is R. For business class, it was C for both old and prestige+, but prestige 180-degree one is J. Those R/P and J requires more miles for reward travel than F and C, at least when using KE miles.

In the meantime, KE's upgraded 772ER routes are about to be released. What I found is that in December, daily IAD-ICN is still 772ER but has R and J. Seatmap looks similar with (almost) same number of first and business class seating, but economy has one less row, maybe because of "longer" business class. 3 772ER's are expected to be upgraded this year, so let's see which routes will see the fully flat C.

One interesting feature of new 772ER's seatmap is that there is a "single" seat on Y, 52A. Window seat, but also an aisle seat. Just wow.

Has anyone taken KE's first 77W yet? Hehe

does anyone get error messages when searching IFE info for flights operated by 77W (KE81/82)???

Anyone here ride on KE's 77W yet? How's the new seats and new IFE? Kind of curious since I'll be riding on it this July from JFK to the Philippines via ICN

There's a new trip report up on A.net that features the 77W. Plenty of pictures of the new Y product and some pictures as well of the new J and F products. Really looks great!

A.net "Korean Y Experience- Older A330 & Brand New B77W" (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/152421/)

I did a quick search last night and KE is offering the 77 on flights from YYZ to ICN for Sept and nice prices too! :)

I did a quick search last night and KE is offering the 77 on flights from YYZ to ICN for Sept and nice prices too! :)

YYZ is 772 as far as I'm aware....

Anyone know when KE will be getting their 2nd 77W?

Anybody know the answer to this question?

Secondly, what is the next TPAC route that will receive the 77W? Any chance it could be ICN-ATL or ICN-ORD?

Anybody know the answer to this question?

Secondly, what is the next TPAC route that will receive the 77W? Any chance it could be ICN-ATL or ICN-ORD?

2nd one is about to be delivered and will be used to JFK in addition to current one. Currently 3/w of KE081/082 is 77W, and from September daily 081/082 will be 77W. 3rd one will come on October, and 3/w of night flight to JFK will see 77W from late Oct. Not confirmed for later 77Ws for now.

ATL might be possible, but not ORD. Upper deck is frequently used as Y passengers for ORD-ICN route (J seat, Y service).

saw a picture of the 2nd 77W (HL7783)

KE changed some of their plan about 3rd 77W. It is supposed to go 3 weeklies night flight to JFK (085/086), but now it seems LAX (011/012) will see 77W from Oct 25th (26th from LAX) for Wed/Fri/Sun. JFK recently sufferred from high demand lower capacity problem as 77W carries 60-70 less passengers than 747. JFK night flight will be run by 747 as they do now.

It's suprising to hear that KE011/012 will get 77W from Oct. I thought KE017/018 usually gets more premium passengers than night flight(011/012).

Korean Air 777-300ER to LA from Oct

As per GDS timetable display on 25SEP09, Korean Air is to operate Boeing 777-300ER aircraft on Seoul - Los Angeles KE011/012 service 3 times a week from 25OCT09.

With the change, planned 777-300ER service on Seoul - New York JFK KE085/086 flight from 25OCT09, is shelved.

Planned Korean Air 777-300ER operation as of 25SEP09 for Winter 09/10 season, as follows:

Seoul - Ho Chi Minh Day x1
Seoul - Hong Kong KE603/604 Day 357
Seoul - Los Angeles KE011/012 Day 357 (Day 146 from LAX)
Seoul - New York JFK KE081/082 Daily

Planned Korean Air 777-300ER operation as of 25SEP09 for Winter 09/10 season, as follows:

Seoul - Ho Chi Minh Day x1
Seoul - Hong Kong KE603/604 Day 357
Seoul - Los Angeles KE011/012 Day 357 (Day 146 from LAX)
Seoul - New York JFK KE081/082 Daily

Don't forget two more flights coming online shortly after:

Seoul - Washington DC Dulles (IAD) KE93/94 Day 15
Seoul - Seattle KE19/20 Day 26

Don't forget two more flights coming online shortly after:

Seoul - Washington DC Dulles (IAD) KE93/94 Day 15
Seoul - Seattle KE19/20 Day 26

No, these are 772ER version 3, or 77S, as indicated in cargo.koreanair.com. This thread is about 773ER, or 77W.

No, these are 772ER version 3, or 77S, as indicated in cargo.koreanair.com. This thread is about 773ER, or 77W.

Sorry - you're correct. I was focused on the new seats (which the IAD/SEA routes have) and not the actual equipment.

Sorry - you're correct. I was focused on the new seats (which the IAD/SEA routes have) and not the actual equipment.

I understand. In fact, KE summarized newer-than-new config's schedule on its website very well, include PVG/PEK too.

Thanks to EXLEFTSEAT on this thread, FRA found to be new KE's 77W destination from Jul 2010:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/korean-air-skypass/1009367-icn-fra.html

It's too far away from now, so very likely KE changes plan by then. KE usually runs aircraft like ICN-FRA-ICN-LAX-ICN(017/018), but this LAX is still shown as 747. KE plans to receive 3 77W in 2010, so let's see where the one other aircraft will go.

KE 777-300ER to FRA:
01JUL10 - 31JUL10 Day x135
01AUG10 - Daily