Hilton HHonors - Paying for a Stay: Hilton HHonors Points versus Money or Cash

I have a stay at the Doubletree Bellevue,Seattle at the weekend. I can now get the 3 nts for $56 per night. I have already requested the SS5 ( 65,000) should i just pay cash and redeposit the cert(no charge for Golds?)
Thanks.

Most people feel a point is about a penny. So this is $650.00 worth of points.

My math says pay the money.

Also-

do a search here -

there are two Doubletrees down the block from each other in Bellevue WA. One is really nice and one is like a motel 6 (awful)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Wudy15:
I have a stay at the Doubletree Bellevue,Seattle at the weekend. I can now get the 3 nts for $56 per night. I have already requested the SS5 ( 65,000) should i just pay cash and redeposit the cert(no charge for Golds?)
Thanks.</font>There is never a charge to have a certificate redeposited, irregardless of the tier.

At $56 a night, definite pay the room rate. You can get much better properties for 65K in points. Use you Amex and double up on your double dips if you have already had a stay since June 1st.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">There is never a charge to have a certificate redeposited, irregardless of the tier.</font>

I beg to differ:

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Redeposited Certificates must be accompanied by a US$25 payment for processing (Gold and Diamond VIP Members are exempt from US$25 processing charge).</font>

What would you do when you have choice of paying $225 or using 30k HH points for one night? At what dollar amount do you think it is smarter to use HH points?

Well, if you don't count elite bonuses, you would have to spend $3000 to earn 30,000 points. So, using that comparison, $225 is cheaper.

But if you're Diamond, you only need to spend $1500 to earn 30,000. Then, it'd be $1500 cheaper to use the points.

There's so many metrics people use to measure points. I prefer to value points by what they can get me.

Example: 80,000 airline points for a business class roundtrip is a value of $5000-$6000. But 3 domestic trans-con coach tickets is 75,000 points and only worth $600-$900 at best. You can begin to see how it becomes mind numbing to choose whether or not to cash in points or spend the $$$ and earn more points.

[This message has been edited by PHL (edited 03-06-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PHL:
Well, if you don't count elite bonuses, you would have to spend $300 to earn 30,000 points. So, using that comparison, $225 is cheaper.
</font>

Not to be too critical, but you're off by a factor of 1000 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif $300 earns 3000 base points, not 30,000.

Personally, $225 is a lot of money to me for 1 hotel night so I would spend the points unless I were saving up for a certain award.

I would use the points. I am using 100K to stay 6 nights with a GLON award and with the current rates could get the hotel for $103 US. I'd rather have the $600 in my pocket. When it is that close - especially since award stays count toward status if that is important to you. You might save your points and not be able to use them.

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Ms.DtG

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FlyByMike:
Not to be too critical, but you're off by a factor of 1000 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif $300 earns 3000 base points, not 30,000.

Personally, $225 is a lot of money to me for 1 hotel night so I would spend the points unless I were saving up for a certain award.</font>

I also don't want to be too critical, but the difference between 3000 and 30,000 is a factor of 10, not 1000.

doh! I'll just stay away from the math problems.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FlyByMike:
Not to be too critical, but you're off by a factor of 1000 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif $300 earns 3000 base points, not 30,000.
</font>

Doh! I don't know where my head was on that one. Yeah - 30K is a drop in the bucket compared to $225. I've corrected my original post.

Thank you all very much.

Howdy! One (1) night stay upcoming at the HGI in Addison, IL. Nice little property that is a Category 1. Question: Would you pay for the night at a quoted rate of $47.00 or would you use 6,000 points [PC101]?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by afrugal1:
Howdy! One (1) night stay upcoming at the HGI in Addison, IL. Nice little property that is a Category 1. Question: Would you pay for the night at a quoted rate of $47.00 or would you use 6,000 points [PC101]?</font>
How many points do you have? Is 6K a lot of points to you? Are you saving points for soemthing? If I had lots of points, I would use them. Although at this point I would assume that if you had lots of points you would have burnt them already.

Pay, prolly... but only if I needed the stay to qualify for gold next year.

How many other places are you gonna get a HGI stay for forty-seven smackers?

Redeemed both an ALON and GLON on 05-30-03. Still have a good slug of points left. Not concerned about qualifying stays. Doing a one (1) night stay to catch the NASCAR Busch race at Chicagoland. This is definitely a low rate, but I am still interested in the views of other FTers regarding the value of 6,000 points vs. a $47.00 rate.

Even at $.01 per point it is better to just pay. Hilton sells 6000 points for $75.00.
Pretty easy choice for me anyway.

$47 for HGI is a pretty good rate. Later on when you are 5999 points short of somewhere nice, you will definitely remember this. Also, if you are collecting FF miles, along with any bonus points you may get, you should pay. Have fun.

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[This message has been edited by volrichard (edited 06-14-2003).]

Thanks for the input. I booked the non-refundable rate which netted out to $51.70.

Help! Help! I redeemed 65000 points for a weekend stay at the Hilton Caribe in PR for 10/8 & 9. Now I'm seeing people on Bidding for Travel getting the same hotel for $65 per night. Should I be happy with the points, which would be 80.000 points if I hadn't gotten under the 6/1 raise in points required?

Jaybee: if you so chose, you could redeposit your award cert, cancel your room, and make your Priceline booking. (Do that in reverse order - just to be safe!) I'd factor in the nice treatment and possible upgrade I might or might not get as a HH Silver, consider the least-desirable property Priceline might assign me for $65, and make my decision.

Barring something unusual about the Hilton or the other Priceline hotels in that zone, I'd use Priceline 9 out of 10 times. If I were Diamond or Gold, I might factor in more value for the award stay, but I'd still have a hard time pulling the trigger on 65000 points for a ~$150 stay.

afrugal1: On your one-nighter for $51, you can't really go wrong. Sounds like you got a great rate for the hotel, and a .85c return on a small number of HH points is very good as well. IMHO, you got a better-than-Priceline deal: to get a $51 total charge, you'd have to bid high 30's, and you probably would have gotten less quality than that HGI, and you wouldn't earn points.

Well, seeing as you already booked a non-refundable rate, it looks like you have made a decision. For what it's worth, even though $47 is a great rate for an HGI, I would have used the 6000 points. I value HHonors points at $.0055 so 6000 points would be $33. Since award stays now count towards re-qualifying for status, it is no longer necessary to have paid stays.

There is no way I would even consider using points to pay for a $47/night stay!

I cannot remember the last time I paid anything around that price range for any brand of Hilton hotel.

Particularly for a newer property (and I am making the assumption that if this is a HGI it is not a 20-year old dump).

Glad to hear you saved the points.

Since CO still transfers to HH at 1:2 (1 CO = 2 HH), 6,000 HH points is equivalent to 3,000 CO miles.

3,000 miles for $47 is roughly 1.5 cents per mile (about the same as what afrugal1's CO mileage runs sometimes net). So, for you this is a break even, thus worth using cash, IMO, unless you're in HH burning mode (or cash preservation mode, for that matter). But if that were the case, you probably wouldn't have asked the question. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by channa (edited 06-16-2003).]

Thanks again to everyone for all of the great input. The best part: My need for the room is based on the fact that I am off to see a NASCAR Busch race at Chicagoland Speedway!

When should I do an award stay (using points) versus using dollars?

I'm looking at Hampton Anchorage (level 4 hotel) for $125 AAA rate. A level 4 is 30k points, so doing the math, it comes out to .00416. Is this a good deal? I'm thinking that it is (given that you have to pay $12.50 for only 1000 points.)

Thoughts anyone?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by qadie:
When should I do an award stay (using points) versus using dollars?

I'm looking at Hampton Anchorage (level 4 hotel) for $125 AAA rate. A level 4 is 30k points, so doing the math, it comes out to .00416. Is this a good deal? I'm thinking that it is (given that you have to pay $12.50 for only 1000 points.)

Thoughts anyone?</font>

Welcome to Flyer Talk.

I am not great in math, and I don't have a bunch of Hilton Points. So I would pay the $125 and keep the points (for more expensive Hiltons). And I would receive some points for the stay.

If you have plenty of Hilton points, spend them.

BTW, level 4 for a Hampton sounds high.

[This message has been edited by USAFAN (edited 07-18-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by qadie:
When should I do an award stay (using points) versus using dollars?


Thoughts anyone?</font>

You should use points for a stay when you don't want to pay, can't afford to pay or feel that the points are a good value.

Everyone values their points differently. If you are happy with spending your points then spend them and don't worry what others do. Some will use them on a $70 stay and some won't use them unless the room cost more than $150-200.

The purchase price of points is not a very good way to judge value, IMHO. I can see the Hampton Inn in that location being a Level 4 because Anchorage isn't a cheap place to stay. If you book online with your Visa card and pay for your stay that way this summer, you will get double points (2,500 per night, in this case). Advantage of taking a free stay at a Hampton: you're only giving up 100 FF miles, vs. 500 at a Hilton.

I tend to be a person who is looking for point-stretcher awards and I'm willing to wait it out for a time when that fits my plans. At the same time, I wouldn't call a plan to use points at that level a bad one, either. You're getting a reasonable value and it will put your points to work by making your trip more affordable. Painlessly getting an extra $125 into (or out of) your trip budget isn't an unattractive option, so you should go for it if it suits you. Have a great trip!

Two items missing from your analysis:

What are the taxes? That $125 room could be $140 or more depending on taxes.

The real cost in points is not just the 30K but also the points you would have earned had you paid. If you are Diamond and collecting points instead of miles and book on your Hilton visa you could earn 33 points per dollar or over 4,000 points.

As others said, it is an individual decision for all of us to make; just trying to help with the analysis.

marc

Good points.

I am gold. So I would be missing out on some points.

Good point about the taxes! $140 probably.

This trip is part of an expensive (for me) Alaskan cruise (all the tours are $$$!) so every $140 means 1/2 of a flightseeing trip.

I've been going back and forth over this for like 5 days. My husband made the executive decision and said to do the points so that's what I will do.

Oh, by the way, to add to my dilemma, there's a new HGI in Anchorage, also level 4 for $135. It says it has free high speed internet. So then which do I choose? Well, I called the Hampton on a guess, and sure enough, they have a complimentary business center with free high speed internet too. So I'm going with Hampton b/c of the free breakfast and giving up having the internet in the room.

Thanks for the posts! I love this board!!!!!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by qadie:
So I'm going with Hampton b/c of the free breakfast</font>

This does not make any sense - you are Gold and would receive much better breakfast, free at the HGI...

We haven't always gotten a free breakfast at HGI. Maybe I should call...

Okay, I just called and they DO provide complentary breakfast for gold!!! And they have a business center with a *printer* 24 hrs. Thanks EUGENE!!!!

That gives us an even better value for our points!

I love this board!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by qadie:
We haven't always gotten a free breakfast at HGI. Maybe I should call...</font>

Free breakfast (among other things) is a stated benefit of being a Gold. Print out HH Terms and Conditions (http://www.hilton.com/en/hhonors/terms.jhtml) and have it with you just in case you encounter problems at check-in.

I think of it as one of those justice scales.

I put all the points on one side, and all my dollars on the other. If I have dollars then I'll pay for the room if it's reasonable and collect more points. If I don't have dollars, or it's a very expensive room, then I'll use points.

Doesn't matter what I paid for the points, it's all about how much of each I have.

Last year we were going away for the 4th of July, and the place we wanted to stay was over $300 per night. Now to me, that was a perfect time to use some of the mountain of points I've been collecting. This year, same place, was under $200 a night. To me that's a bit more reasonable, so crack out the visa card and double them all up.

Thanks for the link Eugene. Just printed out the Gold page. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

News update. Poetic Justice... both Hampton Inn and HGI are sold out for free nights. I should have jumped on this last week! Ugh!

(But the HHonors guy told me about a deal in Vancouver. I'll start another post for that one.)

qadie,
I suggest calling the hotels directly to see if they will accept points for an award stay. In my own experience, HHonors has said no rooms are available for points, and a quick call to the hotel yielded a room for points (although sometimes they also say there is no availability).

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by qadie:
News update. Poetic Justice... both Hampton Inn and HGI are sold out for free nights. I should have jumped on this last week! Ugh!

(But the HHonors guy told me about a deal in Vancouver. I'll start another post for that one.)</font>

I do find an ANC Hampton at $125 very high, but I believe it is to rack in on the Cruise ship stopovers and to get all the cash from corporate headquarters of airline crews. 30,000 HHpoints is also too high for a "Hampton"!

Ditto with Boston Logan Hilton at a level 5. Nice hotel, but way too pricey with typical Boston arrogance rip-off for an airport stayover branch. That also should be a level 2.

I stayed at the Anchorage HGI a couple weeks ago. It has a business center with two or three PCs w/free internet access (please share nicely), and a free printer.

As a gold member I got vouchers for a free breakfast. They upgraded me to a room w/ whirlpool.

A nice property only a year old. Not much within walking distance, but if you have a car you're in the center of it all within minutes.

As noted by others, everyone values their points differently. There are many who will only use HHonors points if they are getting $.01 each for them. I happen to value my HHonors points at $.0055 cents each. In your particular case, I would value 30K points at $165, therefore I would pay for your Anchorage stay at either the Hampton Inn or HGI as the cost (including taxes) is less than $165.

I would first determine your maximum "comfort" level of spending. If you have no problem spending $125 a night on a hotel, then use your points at a hotel that would cost you $200 or $250 a night. Of course these more expensive hotels are often hard to get awards at if you're not diamond.

I would also put some sort of minimum value on the points to make sure you get a decent return on them ala MileKing's post.

From my experience, one thing I would like to point out about the HGI bkfst4free is that it is usually a continental bkfst.

Even as a Gold w the bkfst coupons, HGI often tries to hit me up for $4.95 or so to visit the HOT ITEM bkfst4free-NOT! bar.

Well irregardless of breakfast, the one thing I always remind myself of is that I can pay for anything with cash. I can't go to the grocery store and pay with Hilton points - can't pay the rent with Hilton points, etc.

That being said, with airlines and hotel "points" I generally like to have enought that in an emergency I could avoid last minute fares or extremely high rack rates. But I only do that for the programs that I'm an "elite" member in and can use my points at the last minute. Other than that use them. Yes inflation affects cash, but your points can be cancelled any time and can face extreme inflation or face new usability requirements at any time - use them and enjoy them when you do - its great that Hilton rewards their best customers in this manner and all you have to do is enjoy them - everything in life isn't a financial analysis.

Thanks MileKing. I thought that a level 4 Hampton was asking a bit much (30k). I'll consider your valuation .0055 as a litmus test for future point usages.

I have booked a Hilton award. It seems the award can be gotten for USD 1,860 rather than paying 250,000 points. My intuition is that I could get better value by paying and using the points for a GLONP. Is it correct?

My opinion is that I'd rather have $1860 in my pocket than 250,000 points.

Ditto!

I value HHonors points at $0.0055/point. Therefore, I would use the 250K points for an award.

Not as precise as MileKing, I value it at 0.005 cent per point, so I will use points as well.

Okay, so I have a 6-night stay in Tokyo which is valued at US$1,800. I used 130,000 HHonors points to get the GLONP award [I had a 20K Gold VIP certificate which rebated me the difference between the old 150K rate, and netted me out at 130K]. This is about a penny and a half a point. So was it a good or bad decision to use points? I figure it was a good one.

Obviously a great trade and to see it more clearly, just drop a zero off the points traded and the dollar figure. Would you trade 13,000 points to save $180? Every time, right? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I am going to Hawaii for business so heading out early with the family. I will be staying at the HHV on Oahu, can get rooms for $190 a night, so $660 with taxes, or should I use the 120,000 points?

Michael

How many nights are you planning on staying?

I am going to Hawaii for business so heading out early with the family. I will be staying at the HHV on Oahu, can get rooms for $190 a night, so $660 with taxes, or should I use the 120,000 points?

Michael

If you have 120k points to burn, then I would say fine. However, for me, IMHO, I save my points for places out of the country that cost, say, 300 - 400 euros per night. For example, I've used my points for Ireland/London, next year in Rome....so I don't think I would use them in the states, not even for $190 a night. Just my rule of thumb.

Enjoy HHV.

Dawn

My $.02 ... I'd pay and save the 120,000!

I agreed with the other posters, $0.0055 per point is just not worth it. For example, 175K points will get you 6 nights at the Rome Cavalieri Hilton, almost tripling your redemption value.

International airline seat map (http://www.seatexpert.com)

MY VOTE:
It would be a borderline case if you were staying 6 nights: 175K ALON vs. $1320 cash = .75 cents a point. But I agree with the others that .55 cents is too low a yield.

MY VOTE:
It would be a borderline case if you were staying 6 nights: 175K ALON vs. $1320 cash = .75 cents a point. But I agree with the others that .55 cents is too low a yield.

I agree with Brendan.

Not only is the yield too low, by paying you would also earn points...

$.0055 is the hurdle rate I use for determining if I should go with points or pay cash for the stay so I don't consider that yield too low. Most of the time my yield is much higher and the decision is clear cut. Of course, as a Diamond member I earn a lot of points. I can't see paying $125/night + tax at a Hampton Inn somewhere if I can redeem 20K points for a free night. It's great to be able to use points for $300/night hotels, but those stays are few and far between. In your situation, I would probably pay for the stay, particularly if I knew I was saving for another trip to a more expensive destination.

I can't see paying $125/night + tax at a Hampton Inn somewhere if I can redeem 20K points for a free night.
Even that now seems like a poor value to me. :) A couple months ago in Norway I redeemed 30k points for a 3-night Scandic stay that would cost me over $400. Ie, about $135/night (including tax) vs 10k points/night. No contest!

Scandic has a loophole because of their poor integration into HHonors, whereby the have a flat 10k/night redemption at any Scandic, no matter what the price, to make up for the poor flat earning rate at the chain. Makes it far and away the best night-at-a-time redemption deal in the HHonors program (if you earn HHonors points OTHER than at Scandic!), but obviously only works if you're visiting the handful of northern European countries where Scandics are located.

I have friends who used points for stays of a week in some cases at HI's in Florida following the storms last month.

Thats one painfull way to use points.

When I go overseas, I can always find a very good hotel for a very low price on Priceline - the problem is then when to use the points.
On my last 3 trips to Paris, we have stayed at the (priceline) 4 star LeMeriden for $100 per night. On all 3 occasions, we were with friends who didn't have points and didn't want to spend the big money to stay at a Hilton while we stayed for free.
We just booked a 6 night stay and are using points as we are traveling on our own, even though we can still stay for $100 where we have stayed before. I have 705,000 in bank and want to burn some points instead of spending the $$ on this trip.
Unless your set on staying at a specific property, it's not always a choice of points or $$$ when you can often find a comparable property using a bidding site.

I am going to Hawaii for business so heading out early with the family. I will be staying at the HHV on Oahu, can get rooms for $190 a night, so $660 with taxes, or should I use the 120,000 points?

Michael

It totally depends on your other potential near-term uses for HH points and your pattern of earning/redeeming points in general. If you have an upcoming trip to Europe (see others' posts about Rome, Scandia, etc.) then you can get a bigger bang for your buck. You may not choose to value a bed in Rome at 300+ euros, but in any case you'd realistically value it high enough to make that redemption very worthwhile.

But if you have no international vacation plans, a half-cent a point at the HHV might not be a bad redemption. I did a 6-night ALON there for 100k when I could've otherwise gotten a resort-quality room in the Waikiki area for about $100/nt. Roughly 7/10ths of a cent per point for a pretty nice property...I thought it was worth it.

We've enjoyed the 10k stay at Scandic in Brussel and Brugge... they seem to be growing southward! ;) A true bargain!

Another we use from time to time is the Hilton NRT (Narita International Apt. near Tokyo,) another 10k stay.

Even that now seems like a poor value to me. :) A couple months ago in Norway I redeemed 30k points for a 3-night Scandic stay that would cost me over $400. Ie, about $135/night (including tax) vs 10k points/night. No contest!

Scandic has a loophole because of their poor integration into HHonors, whereby the have a flat 10k/night redemption at any Scandic, no matter what the price, to make up for the poor flat earning rate at the chain. Makes it far and away the best night-at-a-time redemption deal in the HHonors program (if you earn HHonors points OTHER than at Scandic!), but obviously only works if you're visiting the handful of northern European countries where Scandics are located.

Howdy. I am pretty new at Hilton HHonors and am wondering whether when you cash in points, do you get a comparable room as when you pay cash, or do they stick you in a closet?

I am a HHilton Gold level member. I have family visiting Chicago July 28-31 (Fri/Sat/Sun). They'd like to stay at either the Palmer House or the Hilton Chicago (720 S. Michigan).

The Palmer House is about $191 a night plus tax, the Hilton about $151. They'd run 35000 Hilton HHonors points per night per room as I recall.

If paying cash, I'd register the rooms in my name and pay with the HHilton Amex, so it would yield a bunch of points.

Which would you do? Will they in reality (not Hilton spin) get the same room regardless of method of payment? Any chance of upgrade either way? It looks like a relatively slow summer weekend in Chicago, which is why we picked it.

Would it make any difference if I go down in person and schmooze the HHilton Honors manager?

Thanks very much for any tips.

I'd like to suggest doing a search on this subject.

whether "paying" for or "using points" you should be given the same room type you book.

Spending quite a bit of time in Chicago, I personally would pay for the room and based on what dates you go, Chicago weekends can be as low at $90. So keep checking.

You'll get a standard room with the 35,000 pts and you will get whatever type of room you pay for...the two can be remarkably different. For example the Drake has some really tiny rooms, but usuallly VIPs get upgraded. Most Hiltons will upgrade an award for those with VIP.

I suggest you booked the room thru either method and then call the manager a day before to see what the upgrade availability is like.

On a side note, 35,000 seems an awful lot of points to use for a $150-190/night room charge. I think most people value HH points around $0.01/pt

There's alot of threads floating around on how people value their HH pts. You might want to check those out as well.

I'd like to suggest doing a search on this subject.

whether "paying" for or "using points" you should be given the same room type you book.

Spending quite a bit of time in Chicago, I personally would pay for the room and based on what dates you go, Chicago weekends can be as low at $90. So keep checking.

Thanks for your response. I'd like to suggest you carefully reread my OP before knee-jerking a response.

I referred to a specific July 2006 weekend, not a generic winter Chicago weekend where somebody might have the theoretical possibility of a $90 rate. I watch Chicago hotel rates pretty closely, and there aren't many $90 rooms these days, or for the next few months. Baseball and Tut, among other things.

I know about Hotwire/Priceline and all the other hotels in Chicago. My group wants to stay at one of these 2 Hilton hotels, which currently have the rates I quote, or did a couple days ago.

I should have referred to the infamous "closet rooms" at the PH. That's what I am worried about.

Also, I have no hope of reaching Diamond this year, should that make a difference.

You'll get a standard room with the 35,000 pts and you will get whatever type of room you pay for...the two can be remarkably different. For example the Drake has some really tiny rooms, but usuallly VIPs get upgraded. Most Hiltons will upgrade an award for those with VIP.

I suggest you booked the room thru either method and then call the manager a day before to see what the upgrade availability is like.

On a side note, 35,000 seems an awful lot of points to use for a $150-190/night room charge. I think most people value HH points around $0.01/pt

There's alot of threads floating around on how people value their HH pts. You might want to check those out as well.

Thanks very much for your tips. I am aware of the different values people put on HH points. Mostly worried about them getting stuck in a bad room oneway or another.

Yes, I would suggest that you talk with the manager to see what the likelihood of being upgraded with an award room at either hotel. Summer gets crazy in Chicago so availability of upgraded rooms might be thin...calling ahead of time and talking to the manager might help sway your decision.

Is there a reason why your group has chosen only those two properties? The Hilton and PH are two very different properties in two very different locations. There are plenty of other Hilton hotels in the area as well...but I figure from your last post that you've already taken a look at these other properties.

I personally like the HGI and HS.

Yes, I would suggest that you talk with the manager to see what the likelihood of being upgraded with an award room at either hotel. Summer gets crazy in Chicago so availability of upgraded rooms might be thin...calling ahead of time and talking to the manager might help sway your decision.

Is there a reason why your group has chosen only those two properties? The Hilton and PH are two very different properties in two very different locations. There are plenty of other Hilton hotels in the area as well...but I figure from your last post that you've already taken a look at these other properties.

I personally like the HGI and HS.

They like the southern location relatively near Millennum Park, the Art Institute, the Field/Aquarium/Planetarium, to which they want to walk comfortably if the weather is nice. Also near the Electric Line of the Metra, which runs to my 'burb, and not far from the theaters. Partially I suppose it's habit, places they know.

They care little about points/miles.

I may see how the HGI and HS are these days; haven't been in for a while.

ES seems to be suffering from delusions of grandeur. $279 plus tax? Manager's reception with the cheapest liquor on the face of the earth is overrated. Breakfast is OK, I guess.

Thanks.

Thanks for your response. I'd like to suggest you carefully reread my OP before knee-jerking a response.

I referred to a specific July 2006 weekend, not a generic winter Chicago weekend where somebody might have the theoretical possibility of a $90 rate. I watch Chicago hotel rates pretty closely, and there aren't many $90 rooms these days, or for the next few months. Baseball and Tut, among other things.

I know about Hotwire/Priceline and all the other hotels in Chicago. My group wants to stay at one of these 2 Hilton hotels, which currently have the rates I quote, or did a couple days ago.

I should have referred to the infamous "closet rooms" at the PH. That's what I am worried about.

Also, I have no hope of reaching Diamond this year, should that make a difference.

First of all i dont "knee jerk" i was giving you information as requested. So bring it down a notch! :mad:

Also, I cannot personally speak on a "closet room" however, what one person thinks is a "closet" another person might think is average.

If you are currently diamond (or gold at the time of your stay) you should be assigned a decent room, using points in chicago might not be wise. On occasion both properties have specials, and as you note you've been watching rates, they fluctuate, so you might find a cheaper rate closer to your stay, I know I often have.

Not sure if you tried pricing the night-by-night or for the entire length of your stay. Sometimes, checking and booking each night seperately gives you cheaper rates.

You really need to look at the rates for your specific time frame. I decided to use reward points for a June stay at DT in Chicago because the rates were @ $300 and up for my dates. Picked the DT purely for location, have stayed at the downtown ES before. It was pricey but that was during xmas vacation. Hated my room location there, corner room was very cold and drafty. Aksed to be moved but hotel was "full". Thought rooms needed updating but location was great for kids as it is right by ESPN, RFC, HRC etc...

Basic question is: Is target redemption rate for Hilton points > U$0.01/point?

I have a reservation using 24K for 2 nts (Point Stretcher) at an European location.
Current Hilton.com rates are prepaid rate is U$173, flexible is U$235.

I have been able to find cancellable rates at a site that I've been successfully invoking Best Rate Guarantees on :D Rate showing at this site is U$ 174.

Assuming I book 1 nt under my name and 1 nt under my partner's (we both have Hilton accounts with points in a 55:45 split), we could be staying there for US$124 (knock off $50) per night tax included.

That's exactly U$0.01/pt value. So use points or pay? The airline miles and Hilton stay credits always come in handy (we usually have to do mattress runs).

My minimum threshold on award vs. paid is about two-thirds of a cent per point. At 1 cent, I'd definitely use the points.

The only things you give up are the points you'd earn on the room rate and the miles. You'll still get your stay credit on the award.

Mike

i was just wondering at what threshold will people decide between pts or pay out of pocket. i'm looking at an upcoming stay with a rate of $159 or 40k pts as its a cat 6. what are your thoughts?

Pay.

At $159 vs. 40K, you're getting about 0.4 cents/point, which is not much. I like to get at least 1 cent/point, more is better.

That is always a hard call, many people like to get 1 cent per point. However everyone has their own priorities. I sometimes pay higher rate if I need the points to requalify for my status.

Personally i like to save my points for the longer VIP rewards such as GLON or AXON. But there are also only a few places I want to stay for an extended time.... So sometime you burn more points to get a single night award.

I look at my wallet and look at my statement. If I have more money then points, I'll pay with cash. If I have more points then money, or the rate is too high, I'll use points.

It all depends, I paid for a stay last Saturday with cash, staying again in a few days with points.

i was just wondering at what threshold will people decide between pts or pay out of pocket. i'm looking at an upcoming stay with a rate of $159 or 40k pts as its a cat 6. what are your thoughts?

The best bang for points in the Hilton system are Scandic rewards until the end of October 10K HH points per night and GLON awards.

This summer I redeemed couple of nights in Cyprus when Hilton had points stretchers available and the going rate $$$'s was high compared to points.

I would never redeem 40K points for $159 night stay.

I'm rather attached to my points and don't like to burn them to fast. I usually look for the point-stretcher dates to use points. The only exeptions I make is when I want to go for a sudden break and my wallet doesn't really allow it.
The hotel has to have a lounge of course to get the best deal for your points :D

I am certainly one who goes for at least$.01 per point.The 6 night awards are the way for me.I was aiming for the Cavalieri next october but have just looked at the new Hilton in Venice.835 euro per night for a king room.A point value of $.035,that seems to be the way to go.

I look at my wallet and look at my statement. If I have more money then points, I'll pay with cash. If I have more points then money, or the rate is too high, I'll use points.

It all depends, I paid for a stay last Saturday with cash, staying again in a few days with points.

That's funny. I just did the same. We are strapped for cash till EOY because of bonus move into next CY. So, just used points for PBI-FLL Do in Dec.

My old rule was 1 US cent per point, but with the 2 devaluations since May 2003, I now say .8 cent. Most of my big scores nowadays are with Marriott, Hyatt, & Starwood.

The best bang for points in the Hilton system are Scandic rewards until the end of October 10K HH points per night and GLON awards.

What do you mean by that? Are the rates going up?

Yes Feldschloesschen, the number of points required for a Scandic room night increases dramatically ( from 10K to 20--30K) on October 1, not the end of Oct. as misstated by Holtju2.

The categories of many Scandics changed October 1 (it's still September 30 in the USA at this minute, and I just telephoned my last bookings for 10,000 points per night Scandics, including the Scandics Copenhagen, Anglais (Stockholm,) Bryporten (Oslo,) Bergen City and Continental (Helsinki) for summer of 2007. ^ The initial difficulty was that the Scandic computers are in Europe, of course, and they have already changed to reflect the new rates, but since it mentioned nothing about that in the 2007 Terms in Conditions...

I will seriously miss the many Scandics that have jumped to Category 3 and 4 at 10,000 points per night (€313.83 was the per-night price of the soon-to-be Cat 4 Copenhagen for the nights I booked.) :( :( :(

What do you mean by that? Are the rates going up?

holtju, if you are in LAX you can possibly still beat the clock; if you are in HEL, well, the clock beat you. ;) September 30 is the last day all Scandics can be redeemed at Cat 1 award values, for as far out as Sept 30 2007.

The best bang for points in the Hilton system are Scandic rewards until the end of October 10K HH points per night and GLON awards.

This summer I redeemed couple of nights in Cyprus when Hilton had points stretchers available and the going rate $$$'s was high compared to points.

I would never redeem 40K points for $159 night stay.

I agree with previous posters, go for the $.01 per Point system or better when paying with points. I booked a stay at the W - TS (SPG) around a year ago for 12k points when the room was more than 600 a night. obviously SPG points and HHonors points aren't really comparable, but I still think I got the better deal in terms of points used.... Maybe you disagree, but for 159 I would spring for the cash payment. :)

holtju, if you are in LAX you can possibly still beat the clock; if you are in HEL, well, the clock beat you. ;) September 30 is the last day all Scandics can be redeemed at Cat 1 award values, for as far out as Sept 30 2007.

Thanks! I had wrong info on my earlier post. I rather be in LAX than in HEL(L). ;)

I truly miss these Scandic awards. It was nice to redeem 10K points instead of sleeping on a friends couch in Helsinki. I would not consider burning 20K to 30K points for a night at Scandics, although some Scandics i.e. Continental in Helsinki are nice.

I look at my wallet and look at my statement. If I have more money then points, I'll pay with cash. If I have more points than money, or the rate is too high, I'll use points.

I'm pretty much in the same boat. All depends on the situation at the time.

The best bang for points in the Hilton system are Scandic rewards until the end of October 10K HH points per night and GLON awards.


That's so sad. I will really miss those many many 10K HH reward nights at the Scandic Simonkenta :( One of the best bang for your points. Too bad I didnt hear about this sooner, else I would have redeemed b4 1Oct

I'm a HHonors newbie (tons of Starwood), and have about 100000 points in a couple month - lots of amex/citi signup bonuses.

I'm going to a Doubletree and they are offering me a rate of about 270 with tax....this hotel goes for over 450 in prime season/summer. Or I can redeem 40000 points for the night.

My experience with Starwood is that the points devalue quite a bit (st. regis monarch beach went from 12k to 25k in one year, for example). Has Hilton been upping the reward requirements substantially?

Thanks.

In my opinion you are very close, .06. 125k for 4 nights (if you have an AX) or 175k for 6 are the best bargains. If your not sure you are going to stay at an expensive resort or redeem for London/Paris I would do it.

I've been getting $0.1/point for the past several years. That said, cash is king and a very liquid asset.

Rewards are really standardized based on the Hotel cetegory. An HGI which costs be 90 a night will cost 25k points per night or an HGI which costs me 200 a night can cost the same.

I would pay using 40k points as 270 seems a bit much to me and especially if I am not saving up for anything special to redeem in the near future.

for me > $250 is worth the points, but it depends and the hotel as well ... wouldn't use 40k or spend $270 for a dump.

for me > $250 is worth the points, but it depends and the hotel as well ... wouldn't use 40k or spend $270 for a dump.

I agree, $250 is my min for using 40K points.

There are many of these type posts.....personally I believe that unless you have a definate near future use of the same points, then money in the bank is much better than digital points on a computer screen.

I prefer using points for properties that would run $350 or above, or more, when possible (and at that see if I am on holiday and can possibly use an AXON or other elite award.) I believe 40k is a lot of points for a single night at any Doubletree. I also have to deduct the 2,700 Base and 4,550 bonus points (HH AMEX card points, HH AMEX booking bonus, My Way and Diamond bonus points,) as well that I would earn here, meaning I would save $270 (plus taxes, I am sure) but actually spend net 47,250 points for one night.


But the OP's travel may well differ from mine, and YMMV, of course, and it is a very individual decision.

I frequently stay at a hotel that is about that $$ per night and is the same number of points. The main reason is that if I had to spend real money i'd stay at a cheaper place, but when it's points I'll use my points and stay a convenient place.

I think Hilton points have little value to begin with and I think of them as less valuable than and airline mile and def. less valuable than a starpoint. I haven't put a $$ value on them myself though.

I've been getting $0.1/point for the past several years.Surely you mean 0.1 cents per point. Unless you mean you get 10 cents value, but then, 40,000 points would be a $4000 room, and I don't know of many of them.

Surely you mean 0.1 cents per point. Unless you mean you get 10 cents value, but then, 40,000 points would be a $4000 room, and I don't know of many of them.Surely he means $.01 or 1 cent, as 0.1 cents would be practically worthless, in which case the OP should definitely book using the points.

My threshold for using 40K points would be $200 incl. tax (so around $175 before tax). I value Hilton points at half a cent, though I try to do better. However, I come into a lot of points through credit card tie-ins, I can book government rates, and I don't stay overseas that much.

In regards to the OP's other question, Hilton points have hardly devalued at all in several years, though point stretchers are now almost unknown. Indeed HH points may have increased in value relative to hotel rates, which have gone up.

Manku, as you've seen from other posts here, one of the key metrics to consider is how many cents per point (cpp) you're saving. Everyone's entitled to their own measure. I'm not even sure what mine is, exactly, though I use 0.5cpp as a benchmark. I figure for anything under 0.5 it's generally better to pay cash, around 0.5 it's a tie, and well above 0.5 it's a bargain to use points.

Of course, there are factors to consider in addition to cpp. The posts above mention many of these. Are you saving up towards a large number of points required for a special redemption? How's your free cash flow? Are you carrying a huge number of points and looking to spend them soon?

Just looking at the first factor, I'd estimate that you'd get about 0.6cpp by spending points. I figure that as $270 out of pocket vs. 40,000 award points plus the upwards of 5,000 points you could earn if you paid cash -- $250 room charge plus 50% elite bonus plus credit card bonus plus MyWay bonus. (Always count the opportunity cost of points you fail to earn when you don't spend cash.) If you value HHonors points at 0.5cpp, this is a reasonable redemption.

Whichever your choice, enjoy your trip!

Well, I guess my rules are completely different than most. I like to use my points for maximum value, and I like to go to New York where hotel prices are insane. I usually burn my points on 6-night stays for either 150K or 175K. With the hotel prices in NYC, I usually get about .015 to .02+ dollars per point. Yes, that's 1.5 to 2 cents per point.

So, for me that means using 40K points for a hotel room that costs less than $600.00 is a waste.

Keep in mind, though, that I know I will use my points eventually for that value (at the current redemption cost at least, see below). I have a lot of points, and as an HGVC Elite member (HHonors Gold for life), I will always have many points. And I know this in advance.

However, if you are just joining HHonors because of some various promos and are going to take the points and run, then by all means I would advise you to dump them as soon as possible. Save the $270.

As for the second part of your question:
Has Hilton been upping the reward requirements substantially?
Actually, no, they haven't. They seem to have been fairly stable for a while. They did go through an "upgrade" process a couple years ago on a lot of properties, meaning of course that the categories assigned were upgraded and not the properties themselves, but they seemed to be mostly from the very lowest categories. Other than stealing a few high-end properties for the new "Waldorf=Astoria" branding that's about it.

Of course what that means I'm afraid is that we're probably in for a big redemption rate increase in the near future. All the more reason to take the $270!

this is a personal choice. staying in paris this weekend and its about 500 us dollar s a night, before tax. decided to use 120k pts for that.

I agree that everyone has there own metric, and therefore I would never say anyone's own HH point valuation is wrong. As others have noted, everyone has there own circumstances such as whether they anticipate staying in Europe or other high cost places in the future. One thing to keep in mind, though, when setting a benchmark or deciding on using points for an expensive HH property, is whether there is a perfectly suitable non-HH property available and significantly lower rates than whatever HH property is being considered. Then again, there is nothing wrong with going for a "splurge" on a reward stay, either.

Another factor to be considered is whether you habitually carry a credit card balance, paying some giant rate of interest. In that case, it might be wise to save the cash and put it against your debt.

$270 vs. 40K, I'd use the points. But YMMV.

As everyone has stated...totally up to you. For me, I have so many points and not nearly the opportunity to use them so I tend to burn them whenever I can rather than outlay my own cash. YMMV.

I recently blew 35k on a room that wouldve been $109 in an area with plenty of 50-60 dollar hotels around. Now if I needed the points for something else, I would've saved them.

I can't think of a Doubletree that is worth $270 a night except the Doubletree Suites Times Square.

Personally, I probably would agonize over it and then burn the points if I couldn't find a different property. I value the points at $0.0067+tax (although I often get .01-.015) so $265+tax for a Cat 6 night. (Actually, $800+tax for a 120k AXON stay) You're right on the borderline, and my redemption price already accounts for the points being given up.

At a balance of 300k, I start to worry about depreciation, and I'd probably go ahead and spend down without thinking about it. But I spend about 200k a year (usually an AXON and some random Cat 1 or 6 nights), so for me that is 18 months of burn.

My 0.02... I usually don't use points unless I am getting a good value, otherwise I use the $$$. I need at least $.01/point to burn the points although have gotten as high as $.025/point. I am a bit of a hoarder though... :o

I've only redeemed my points over the last few years for AXON and GLONP awards, I wouldn't dream of redeeming 40k for one night that I could pay $270 for. In fact, unless I really needed that stay for elite requalification, promotion purposes, or an event specifically at that hotel, I'd just be using Priceline anyway. Surprisingly to me, I'm in the minority though judging from this thread!

I would use the points. I get plenty from other stays and the AMEX.

Amazing that more people talk about the opporunity cost of the points, rather than that of the cash.

I've only redeemed my points over the last few years for AXON and GLONP awards, I wouldn't dream of redeeming 40k for one night that I could pay $270 for. In fact, unless I really needed that stay for elite requalification, promotion purposes, or an event specifically at that hotel, I'd just be using Priceline anyway. Surprisingly to me, I'm in the minority though judging from this thread!

Here! Here!

I agree with You. If I dont need the credit for some promo or to requalify for a Status level, Id rather either do PL or book and stay elsewhere.

Another question is does the OP have no choice but to stay at DT? is there any other hotel nearby that is less expensive?, any brand or a non-branded Hotel

However 40k for a night if the rate is high is no big deal. As an AXON its 31,250 per night so 40k is just 8k more.

also how long did it take the OP to get to the 55k mark, if forever then getting the other 70k for a AXON will take some doing, thats if the OP even has a Amex HH CC.

I was gonna be using my Chase Marriott free cert this coming weekend , but was able to do BRG an dthe room is now 75 Euro + tx, I hope I wont regret CXing the freebe. but with the room now costing appx $125 ai I feel I can get better usage of the cert

needless to say if the OP hardly earns HH pts or stays with HH, then blowing it on a $270 room just might make sense

Its really a case of YMMV as everyone not only has different values they put on their Pts but also everyone has different staying patterns. So its better to use it then watch the Pts be taken away for not having any activity in 1s acct

Ended up paying the $270 w/tax for an ocean front room. Figured I would use the 40K next summer for a weekend night at same hotel (upwards of $350/night).

Hotel was nice. Certainly not worth $400+, but grounds and location are excellent. Rooms are dated and dark - not too impressive.

Thanks for all the help.

I used to use my Hilton points for individual nights, but stopped about a year ago. I now just book the 6+ night GLON awards, which are a much better value. I just booked a 7 night stay at a Conrad for 155k, which I consider a much better value for the points. I doubt I would cash in Hilton points for less than a penny a point.

Have access to a low $250/night rate at the Hilton Barbados during the Xmas holidays. Was originally going to use 160K HH points but thinking that the points could be used more strategically elsewhere given the low rate.

Is there a $ threshold for deciding when points is the better way to go? What would you do?

Use a AXON ( if you have a HH Amex, or get one) and the cost drops to 125k points.. then it points all the way.;)

mike

Have access to a low $250/night rate

Don't forget taxes ratchet up that nightly rate

I have enough points for the Narita Hilton (category 2) but my office has a special rate of JPY 6000 / USD 67 per night.

I have to pay out of pocket but the ability to get a room for $67/night a waste of points?

I have enough points for the Narita Hilton (category 2) but my office has a special rate of JPY 6000 / USD 67 per night.

I have to pay out of pocket but the ability to get a room for $67/night a waste of points?

big time

unless you are sitting on hh as orphan points that you will never use

Save those points for an expensive rate when they're worth more.

Too bad the Hilton Tokyo - Narita is not participating in the double bonus points offer! But at $67, I'd spend the money and save the points, as others have said. (Earn low, spend high = earn Hilton Narita, spend AXON at Conrad Tokyo.)

I have enough points for the Narita Hilton (category 2) but my office has a special rate of JPY 6000 / USD 67 per night.

I have to pay out of pocket but the ability to get a room for $67/night a waste of points?

Too bad the Hilton Tokyo - Narita is not participating in the double bonus points offer! But at $67, I'd spend the money and save the points, as others have said. (Earn low, spend high = earn Hilton Narita, spend AXON at Conrad Tokyo.)

I was thinking the same too, basically Hilton NRT and the ANA crowne plaza NRT are almost the same rate, if Hilton NRT offer double points, I would have booked them instantly. I am a little tired of the rooms inside the Hilton, they need a major renovation up to the standard of US hiltons. I decide to put my business to ANA this time.

I almost never use points on Category 2 through Category 4 rooms. Once in a while in a rural location where the Hampton Inn is Cat 2 vs. $105+tax, if my balance is over 375k (3 AXONs), and I don't like priceline's categories. Never ever on Cat 3 or Cat 4.

On the other hand, I always use points at Cat 1 and the rare Opportunity properties.

I'd pay the money.

Don't you also earn points/stay credit? If I could always find a rate of $67, I'd have all my top-tier hotel statuses back.

Don't you also earn points/stay credit? If I could always find a rate of $67, I'd have all my top-tier hotel statuses back.

OP had mentioned it is a rate offer by its office, it may not be a publish rate, then no points/stay credit, although not completely sure about that.

There are many HI are offering rate below $100, often around $70. I do hotels run with HI to maintain my status, but also have to deal with HI infamous "fake eggs" for breakfest.

I'd pay the money.

Ditto, anything less than $75 I typically pay.

I have a similar situation - Hampton Inn - Cat 2.
Room rate is 154+tax.

I currently have a reservation but I'm thinking of booking on points - What do you think? - for USD67 I wouldn't use points, but for 154+tax I'm very tempted...

I have a similar situation - Hampton Inn - Cat 2.
Room rate is 154+tax.



My rule is usually use points if the rate is >$.01 per point, or in other words use a 10k reward if the rate is >$100, otherwise pay for it.

Ditto, anything less than $75 I typically pay.
Where do you find rates under $75? Very out of the way Hamptons? The closest I have paid in years is a great $76 rate at the STL Hilton. (The breakfast buffet alone was worth at least half that.)

Pay the $67!
Save the points for a vacation in a Cat 5 o 6!
Much better use of points!
Peace!

I have a similar situation - Hampton Inn - Cat 2.
Room rate is 154+tax.

I currently have a reservation but I'm thinking of booking on points - What do you think? - for USD67 I wouldn't use points, but for 154+tax I'm very tempted...

A Category 2 night would cost you 20K points. You can buy 20K points from Hilton for $200. Paying for the $154 + tax would come close to $170-$175, which is not that far off from $200. If you pay for it, you can get another 2250 points for staying there if you select Points + Points, plus more if you use a Hilton related credit card.

I would have paid for the night instead of using the points, unless you have so many points that you don't know what to do with. That 20K in points could be an extra night in a long Cat 4 stay when you use the GLON rewards.

OP had mentioned it is a rate offer by its office, it may not be a publish rate, then no points/stay credit, although not completely sure about that.

I always get points/stay credits at Hilton.

As a general rule, I only expend points on a GLON cat 5 or cat 6 property for stays of 6 nights or more. To me that is what get's the best value for HH points. But this method fits my lifestyle, it may not work for everyone.

Pay the rate as it probably includes tax too. :) Use your points on point stretchers, if you can find them.

Pay the rate as it probably includes tax too. :) Use your points on point stretchers, if you can find them.

Only been able to find PS once, seems like it was luck or a fluke.

gotta agree with everyone else. Pay the rate!! unless you have an emergency and can't afford it then having points always comes in handy.

I tried to search for this thread and was not able to find it...

At what point does one use points instead of cash?

What is the minimum room rate for it to be smart to use HHonors points?

Sorry, I'm slightly new to this and am still trying to figure out how to maximize.

Thanks so much!

Hi Socko33,

This has been debated many times. Some people have a mathematical formula they use. My personal practice is that if I feel financially comfortable paying the rate then I pay. This means that I may pay $150 for a one night stay instead of using points. Someone else may feel paying $150 is too much and use points.

It really is a personal decision. We travel overseas and tend to use points for international location that cost way over US$200 or more a night. It is not unusual to see rooms costing the equivalent of US$$400-500 a night once you factor in exchange rates etc. This way we can have a great vacation staying in a top notch hotel and still afford to have a good time.

As a basic starting point, many of us value a HHonors point at about $0.005 to $0.008 per point. To see what kind of value you are getting for your points when redeeming for a stay, you need to know how much the room would cost, and how many points are needed for the property in question. You should also factor in how many points you would earn on a paid stay. In addition, you should consider how much you would pay to stay at alternative non-HHonors properties at the location in question.

You can get $44 or $55 prepaid stays without breakfast at some Hilton resorts in developing countries in the offseason. Or Best Unrestricted Rates with breakfast at same resorts in offpeak for low $60s or $70s. I'm eyeing a couple such properties for the coming May.

I am planning a three night stay at a hilton costing ~$190 a night. It normally costs $100 a night, but it's busy during my planned stay. It only cost 75000 points (which reflects the class it is in). I am Gold. Should I use points? $600 is a lot of money for that hotel. But using 75,000 points on that hotel seems like a waste too.

I'd probably use 75k points, myself. I value HH points at a bit over 1/2 cent each.

Hello all,

This is my first post. I had a similar situation back in January as to use points or pay. Then the 1/2 price sale came up & I paid for the 1/2 price nights and used points for the full priced nights. In the end for 2 rooms per night for a 1/2 price paid Friday in June at Barcelona Diagonal Hilton ( both rooms with lounge access & breakfest ) & 2 rooms per night for a Thursday= the only points night & Friday/Saturday 1/2 price paid stay in July at the Rome Caverlieri ( both rooms include breakfest & one room with Imperial Lounge access & city view ) I used 120,000 points and paid $ 1873 in american money ( after the AMEX 2.7% conversion fee ). So it worked out to a little under $235 per room per night, plus 120,000 points. I think I did pretty good considering the Caverlieri is usually @ 400-500 euro's per night / per room.

Thanks