JetBlue TrueBlue - Liking JetBlue but Want More Views

Here's the deal. I am a longtime former Exec Plat on AA. Most of my travel in the past has been international, AA made sense from Miami, and I loved the free upgrades domestically and the occasional internationals. But...

My new work requires a simpler travel schedule, most NYC, some DC and occasional West Coast. I recently flew JetBlue for the first time on three flights and liked it, a lot. There is a however coming.

I liked, no, loved the legroom and the seat. I didn't do the extra legroom since there were no aisle seats available but at 6'3, I found the regular legroom on the 320 and the Embraer just fine.

I loved that the plane was clean. This is huge complaint of mine with AA. Even in premium, the planes are filthy and I don't like it.

I liked the entertainment system and the buy on board etc. These are not that important but still, it's nice to have them.

Now the however. Two out of the three flights were delayed, over three hours going RDU-JFK and one and half hours EWR-FLL. I liked the credit but on both flights, the delay was posted at the very last minute, the ground agent never offered an explanation for the delays nor did the cabin crew acknowledge the delays. It was obvious from Flightstats that the incoming flights had all kinds of issues and I know NYC area airports are notorious.

But AA does a very good job of keeping delayed passengers informed and in these two cases B6 did not.

So I am wondering if this is a company wide issue. If so, I may not switch to B6 since it matters to me to be informed. It helps me plan probable schedule shifts.

Or did I hit two exceptions in a row?

As an AA EXP who flies B6 intermittently, I like them a lot. I think the lack of information in this case was an anomaly, or, to be more precise, I think you'll normally get as much info from B6 as you will from AA (which, as you know, is sometimes a lot, sometimes a little).

A few things to note/consider, some from personal experience, some garnered from this board:
- The 320s have better leg room than the 190s. Both are nice planes (I was located in AUS until recently and 190s was basically all B6 had there) but the 320s are better, IME.
- Check that B6 will go where you need to. You've probably already done this, but as you have likely noticed, B6 does not go everywhere. And they don't necessarily offer routing between two cities that they serve (or offer it as red-eye only).
- You will notice the biggest different between B6 and AA (especially as an AA Elite) during IRROPS. B6 has no reciprocal agreements with other airlines, so when flights are canceled for a day or two due to a big storm, it may be a day, two days, three days, before you can get on another flight. B6 will not transfer you over to Delta, United, Continental, etc. You just have to wait for an available seat on B6. (This is how I understand it. I have not personally had this experience, but I'm guessing this would be the biggest make/break for you).
- You get to avoid the constantly under-construction MIA AA terminal if you switch to B6 :)

But AA does a very good job of keeping delayed passengers informed and in these two cases B6 did not.

So I am wondering if this is a company wide issue. If so, I may not switch to B6 since it matters to me to be informed. It helps me plan probable schedule shifts.

Or did I hit two exceptions in a row?

I do not think that what you hit were exceptions. I think that the experience you had is more typical than not for what happens when flights are delayed.

Also, keep in mind that the TrueBlue program is many miles behind the AAdvantage program. Look at that closely before you make the leap.

All that being said, the in-flight experience on jetBlue is quite enjoyable. It may be sufficient to overlook the warts that come with the carrier.

now that you have me thinking back on it, B6 does a crappy job of delay announcement and updating. that being said, i guess they notified me in advance when they cancelled a flight and accomodated my seat requests....

but if tight schedules are your thing, then AA can route you all over the map to get you where you need to go, but B6 is not going to be much of a help.

if the mileage programs were similar I would choose B6 because of the seat and IFE, and I prefer JFK to LGA

I dunno, maybe B6 is a bit more hit and miss. AA is just.....its big old boring self. But these are the airlines I fly the most nowadays. I think it would be hard to use B6 as a primary airline unless you lived in NYC or LA

but someone get B6 to fly to the DFW or DAL please

One nice thing about Jetblue is that if the price of your ticket goes down they will give you a credit for the difference (you need to call the 1800 jet blue )^^ . It comes in handy on the personal trips I take 2 or 3 times a year.
Perhaps you should fly enough on AA to keep status and then switch to B6 for some of the trips.

Please be advised we are relaunching the TrueBlue program later this year. Additionally, you will see greater frequencies to cities already served. Some exciting stuff coming, but it may not appear until late 2009, 2010.

can you please tell the people you work with to fly to Dallas? Then I'd do 90% of my flights on Jetblue!

Please be advised we are relaunching the TrueBlue program later this year. Additionally, you will see greater frequencies to cities already served. Some exciting stuff coming, but it may not appear until late 2009, 2010.

We've been advised about this "exciting stuff" coming for quite a while. I've given up on seeing it, so for the time being, B6 isn't going to be getting much business from me. It just seems so bizzare that they seem to be plodding along in making adjustments that might actually enhance their business.

Now the however. Two out of the three flights were delayed, over three hours going RDU-JFK and one and half hours EWR-FLL. I liked the credit but on both flights, the delay was posted at the very last minute, the ground agent never offered an explanation for the delays nor did the cabin crew acknowledge the delays. It was obvious from Flightstats that the incoming flights had all kinds of issues and I know NYC area airports are notorious.

But AA does a very good job of keeping delayed passengers informed and in these two cases B6 did not.


One other thing to keep in mind is that B6 does *not* have reciprocity agreements with other airlines like AA does. What that means is that if B6 cancels a flight, or it is delayed significantly, you're stuck with B6 metal. On AA they have the ability (if they want to of course :)) to send you to UA, US, DL, whatever, to get you to your destination.

One other thing to keep in mind is that B6 does *not* have reciprocity agreements with other airlines like AA does. What that means is that if B6 cancels a flight, or it is delayed significantly, you're stuck with B6 metal. On AA they have the ability (if they want to of course :)) to send you to UA, US, DL, whatever, to get you to your destination.

We had a pocket session today and learned where we will be eventually be making our way to Sabre for reservations. Navitaire is simply overworked. Our chief revenue officer who came to us from BA is working feverishly on many fronts. The Sabre software, he noted, will allow us to interline with other airlines. I thought that was interesting. Other items were discussed, however, due to confidentiality reasons I cannot disclose much more.

We had a pocket session today and learned where we will be eventually be making our way to Sabre for reservations. Navitaire is simply overworked. Our chief revenue officer who came to us from BA is working feverishly on many fronts. The Sabre software, he noted, will allow us to interline with other airlines. I thought that was interesting. Other items were discussed, however, due to confidentiality reasons I cannot disclose much more.

That would be a great addition for the airline.

I wonder how it would work, though. UA, for instance, typically is less stingy with the interlining for elites. For GMs I think it can be kind of tough.

Since B6 does not, as of yet, have a elite system, how will they decide who to interline?

magician, that side of things I have no clue. I would imagine it would simply be coach for coach in order of check in/maybe people in EMLs first. We shall see...

I personally have had hit-or-miss communication with JetBlue during delays. It was mostly "miss" while at JFK (probably because if one flight is delayed, that means all of JFK is on ground hold, and everyone knows), but at smaller stations the communication tends to be phenomenal.

When I was at CUN, a flight to BOS was delayed 5 hours (not sure why), and the crew went around the entire terminal serveral times to let passengers know about the delay and that they could get a meal card for $12. Another time when I was at ROC, our flight was delayed due to ATC at JFK, and the agents were consistently keeping us updated. Heck, they even ordered pizza and soda for us.

Conclusion? Just beware of what is going on around you. Generally, you will be updated, but you can't be oblivious to the situation around you.

From the Wall Street Journal's Middle Seat column of January 6 (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123119880352955507.html):

Passengers had the highest odds of sitting for more than three hours or more before takeoff on JetBlue Airways Corp. flights, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, a DOT agency. JetBlue, based at heavily congested Kennedy Airport in New York, had 117 flights with "taxi-out" times of 180 minutes or more during the first 10 months of 2008. In all, 1,084 flights on U.S. airlines sat for more than three hours before taking off in first 10 months of last year, down 29% from 1,523 in the same period of 2007.

A spokesman for JetBlue said congestion at New York's Kennedy Airport, its home, can lead to long taxi-out times during peak hours of operation and has a bigger impact on JetBlue than other airlines since most of the airline's planes travel into and out of JFK. "We are working with the FAA on operational enhancements at JFK, which we expect will enable us to improve our taxi times and overall performance," the spokesman said. The airline's new terminal opened in October should help, too, he added.

The delay percentages are not really that bad for JetBlue, but bad experiences are much more memorable than ordinary experiences, and long delays are more memorable than short ones.

Good news from the McCartney article:
Among major airlines, JetBlue bumped the fewest through the first nine months of the year, the most recent that DOT has published

Also, keep in mind that the TrueBlue program is many miles behind the AAdvantage program. Look at that closely before you make the leap.I know I'm in the minority here, but I love TrueBlue. Yes, there are no partners so you won't be able to go anywhere jetBlue doesn't fly (no dream vacation to Bora Bora on TrueBlue).

On the other hand, if you fly B6 a lot and you use award tickets a lot, it's terrific. This spring, I am flying my family of four JFK-OAK in Feb and then JFK-SMX in April.

In both cases my #1 prefered itinerary was available for all four seats. Try that on a legacy carrier's ff program.

Also, there are other advantages to TrueBlue's simplicity. No fares that only credit 50% of miles, and only one redemption level (unlike the legacy carriers that limit inventory and oblige you to use double or even triple the miles to book award travel).

I sincerely hope that, when jetBlue changes TrueBlue, they don't add a lot of that garbage known as "enhancements" that only serve to dilute the program's value.

If you have another solution for obtaining international awards (e.g., churning credit cards), and if you can handle the expiration policy and inability to redeposit awards, then TrueBlue is actually quite generous by today's standards.

For short-haul customers, TrueBlue is less generous that Southwest's Rapid Rewards, but I believe that Southwest will gut that advantage by the end of 2009 when they introduce Rapid Rewards 2.0 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/southwest-rapid-rewards/840975-official-rapid-rewards-2-0-speculation-thread.html). At that point, TrueBlue will be the best program for short-haul customers.

TrueBlue is already best for long-haul non-elite customers, for example people who fly just a couple of transcons per year and earn the rest of their points on the credit card. 4 long hauls earning a trip between California and San Juan is a really good deal, especially when that trip isn't capacity controlled out of existence.

If you have another solution for obtaining international awards (e.g., churning credit cards), and if you can handle the expiration policy and inability to redeposit awards, then TrueBlue is actually quite generous by today's standards.

For short-haul customers, TrueBlue is less generous that Southwest's Rapid Rewards, but I believe that Southwest will gut that advantage by the end of 2009 when they introduce Rapid Rewards 2.0 (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/southwest-rapid-rewards/840975-official-rapid-rewards-2-0-speculation-thread.html). At that point, TrueBlue will be the best program for short-haul customers.

TrueBlue is already best for long-haul non-elite customers, for example people who fly just a couple of transcons per year and earn the rest of their points on the credit card. 4 long hauls earning a trip between California and San Juan is a really good deal, especially when that trip isn't capacity controlled out of existence.All agreed, although when TrueBlue 2.0 comes out, it is likely to have many of the features of other ff programs that effectively reduce value to the customer.

I certainly hope not. TrueBlue has allowed me to fly my family reliably and consistently all over the Americas for the past few years. I hope the value remains.

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It only seems natural that any new TB features will be at the detriment of others. Isn't this the way it always works?

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It only seems natural that any new TB features will be at the detriment of others. Isn't this the way it always works?
Of course.

On the other hand, many of the new "enhancements" that have been used to justify the tremendous devaluation in miles/points in other ff programs have turned out to be little more than illusory, leaving the consumer with little more than the devaluation itself.

I really appreciate the responses. This is what I love about FlyerTalk.

It turns out that I have Platinum for Life with AA so I am not worried about losing status and most of my miles were given away so while family members might be unhappy, they don't matter much to me.

I have to book a trip for next week to NYC from FLL. Now, for economic reasons, I usually stay at hotels in the Pavonia section of Jersey City with my work taking me to either around the WTC or Penn Station. Prices are really good in JC and the Path connections are fine.

I think I am better off booking in and out of JFK though instead of Newark. My reasoning is that if there are mechanical delays, the hub at JFK is a better spot to be with a better chance of a plane. Since I would arrive and head to Manhattan to work, then to hotel after work, and leave from Manhattan to go home, it strikes me as reasonable. How's my reasoning on this?

On the other hand, many of the new "enhancements" that have been used to justify the tremendous devaluation in miles/points in other ff programs have turned out to be little more than illusory, leaving the consumer with little more than the devaluation itself.

Do you think this is more or less likely to happen as well with B6?

I really appreciate the responses. This is what I love about FlyerTalk.

It turns out that I have Platinum for Life with AA so I am not worried about losing status and most of my miles were given away so while family members might be unhappy, they don't matter much to me.

I have to book a trip for next week to NYC from FLL. Now, for economic reasons, I usually stay at hotels in the Pavonia section of Jersey City with my work taking me to either around the WTC or Penn Station. Prices are really good in JC and the Path connections are fine.

I think I am better off booking in and out of JFK though instead of Newark. My reasoning is that if there are mechanical delays, the hub at JFK is a better spot to be with a better chance of a plane. Since I would arrive and head to Manhattan to work, then to hotel after work, and leave from Manhattan to go home, it strikes me as reasonable. How's my reasoning on this?
JFK is better. The new T5 is also very nice. Regarding delays, I have flown B6 almost weekly since 2005.

I have experienced delays, usually in the 30 minute to 1.5 hour category. These are annoying, but since there is never a connection on B6 out of NYC, it's not the end of the world.

The vast majority of flights I have been on have not been delayed at all or under 15 minutes. I think it's important to keep that in perspective. The JFK delays that B6 experiences are essentially similar to what all airlines experience at any of the three NYC airports.

For average delays, the worst, in my experience, is flying in and out of LGA, regardless of the carrier.

Finally, I was on one of those infamous "Valentine's Day Massacre" flights that was delayed on the tarmac nearly 6 hours. As unpleasant as that was, at least B6's policy at the time was to keep waiting until the flight could take off, which we did. Because of the negative pr, they have changed that policy. The result? Now you get to come back to the gate, your flight is cancelled and you can wait hours more (or till the next day) for the next available flight.

I don't see that as any kind of advantage for the passenger.

Also, regarding interlining, although rare, there are cases where B6 will buy you a ticket on another carrier to accommodate you.

Finally, I was on one of those infamous "Valentine's Day Massacre" flights that was delayed on the tarmac nearly 6 hours. As unpleasant as that was, at least B6's policy at the time was to keep waiting until the flight could take off, which we did. Because of the negative pr, they have changed that policy. The result? Now you get to come back to the gate, your flight is cancelled and you can wait hours more (or till the next day) for the next available flight.

I don't see that as any kind of advantage for the passenger.


I do. There are many trips that if it is going to require sitting on the tarmac for an indefinite amount of time, I'd rather just not go. At least going back to the gate give the pax their agency back. This is particularly true for business passengers. What's the point of sitting on the tarmac as the meeting you were supposed to be attending has started?

I would choose JFK vs EWR . EWR is worse for delays and JFK is B6
's hub .

I do. There are many trips that if it is going to require sitting on the tarmac for an indefinite amount of time, I'd rather just not go. At least going back to the gate give the pax their agency back. This is particularly true for business passengers. What's the point of sitting on the tarmac as the meeting you were supposed to be attending has started?
My point was simply if you sit on the tarmac and are delayed, say, 6 hours, that is effectively less disruptive than returning to the gate and being rebooked on a flight the following day, which really means the "delay" is longer.

In any case, the argument is moot, since B6 has changed its policy and now we all get to have the longer "delay" resulting from a return to the gate.

that's a hike from JFK. I guess you LIRR to PENN and then PATH it? I guess it saves you from needing a car but that must be close to a 2hr trek down there!

that's a hike from JFK. I guess you LIRR to PENN and then PATH it? I guess it saves you from needing a car but that must be close to a 2hr trek down there!
I think 1 hr would be more like it, because you can easily get from T5 to Penn Station in 30 minutes via the JFK AirTrain and the LIRR.

But I agree it's pretty inconvenient, especially at rush hour and with any significant luggage...

The irony is that I'm not sure it would significantly quicker using public transport from EWR, because using NJ Transit, you would have to switch trains at Newark Penn Station.

Not necessarily on the changing trains. Many of the NJT trains on the SEC, and all of the Coast Line trains, stop at EWR right after Newark Penn (assuming you're talking about coming from Penn Station).

but the 320s are better
OT, but the 190's are much better. 1)You always get an aisle or a window 2) less passengers is a good thing 3) quicker boarding and unboarding (I know, there's no such a word, but there should be)

OT, but the 190's are much better. 1)You always get an aisle or a window 2) less passengers is a good thing 3) quicker boarding and unboarding (I know, there's no such a word, but there should be)

^

Not necessarily on the changing trains. Many of the NJT trains on the SEC, and all of the Coast Line trains, stop at EWR right after Newark Penn (assuming you're talking about coming from Penn Station).
Yes, but the OP is not going to/coming from NY Penn Station.

From Jersey City, one has to take the PATH to EWR Penn Station, then one stop on the NJ Transit to EWR Rail station, then the EWR AirTrain.

Would be quicker than JFK but probably not by that much.

quicker boarding and unboarding (I know, there's no such a word, but there should be)

I hear "deboarding" but I, being highfalutin', prefer alighting or disembarkation.

However, the E190s have smaller overheads. I travel with a duffel that simply and quickly slides perpendicularly into a Boeing/Airbus overhead, but has to be wedged onto an ERJ/CRJ.

You know, on the EWR v JFK, I really added extraneous information. In both cases, I need to get from the airport to midtown and from midtown to the airport. So the actual time traveled is about the same, either LIRR Jamaica or NJT.

The hotel thing happens after work and before work, so I would never be going from the hotel to the airport.

I booked today to JFK. I appreciate the advice and I'm looking forward to the flights.

but has to be wedged onto an ERJ/CRJ.
Not to mention the unwedging when unboarding.

flew B6 once...will probably do it again.

i just wish they'd find a way to get some slots at DCA for some DCA-JFK flights.