MilesBuzz! - Selling miles?

I came across this website www.cashyourmiles.com. Is this legit?

I believe most frequent flyer programs prohibit selling miles. If you look at the fine print there is a minimum of 100,000 miles to sell. I wish my "orphaned" accounts had 100,000 miles in them!

I came across this website www.cashyourmiles.com. Is this legit?

Almost certainly not. Among other things, they do not say who is responsible for covering the transfer costs. Any choosing to transfer points for cash is almost always a violation of the T&C of the program. But it is nice that they are trying. ;)

I doubt that it's a scam set up by the airlines, if that's what you're asking. If they have any success, the airlines will sue them and subpoena their records. All customers who contacted them will then likely lose their FF accounts. I suppose this could work for you if you sell 100% of your miles and you don't plan to earn any more miles in that program.

Tried this for fun:

Hello XXXX


Officially we don’t buy less than 100k miles or points. If we were to buy your 30k Starwood points we would pay 1.4 cents per point which for 30k comes to a total of $420.



Kind regards,



Eli - Cash 4 Miles

718 475 7669

Is this legit?
Isn't it not so long ago that the discussion of selling miles came up? December'08, I think.

Here's one sample thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milesbuzz/897198-loyalmatch-sellingmiles-com-flyhub-com-has-anyone-used-all-three-sell-miles.html

I came across this website www.cashyourmiles.com. Is this legit?

I've managed to get myself in trouble with this topic before, but my take remains, if you are not going to use the miles (and perhaps even need the money) sell them. I've been doing this for years, and most recently been using www.flyhub.com consistently because of their model and confidentiality. I also use craigslist and did do a couple of transactions on loyaltymatch.com

The fear of being caught is not as serious as you might think, how often do these airlines take actions, not as often as you'd think, and when they do, brokers end up counter suing. The good thing about www.flyhub.com is they sell a variety of airline goods: vouchers, points, airline credit, coupons etc... so here's how you can get around selling my miles, if you are not comfortable, advertise for tickets. I have never used cashyourmiles but know them, they are also a legit company.

The hell with the airlines, they are your miles, sell them. Thank god for companies like cashyourmiles and flyhub.com, in this economy it is more than ever imperative that travelers miles be set free by these greedy airlines. Just my 2 cents. I can already hear all the objections :- )

The fear of being caught is not as serious as you might think, how often do these airlines take actions, not as often as you'd think, and when they do, brokers end up counter suing.
Well, I guess you haven't read enough threads on FT about the accounts being audited and frozen. Otherwise you wouldn't have come to such conclusions. As far as I know, there are threads about sellers getting caught in AA, Delta, NW & UA fora every single year.

I agree the fear of being caught is not the serious part. What's serious is the consequences. If frozen accounts and losing miles are within your comfort zone, please go ahead. I recall reading a thread that someone was barred from flying Delta due to the act of selling lots of Skymiles. I believe there's some legal action involved and he also received a letter from the legal department indicating he's officially on Delta's "no-fly" list. Maybe someone can dig up that thread for your reading pleasure.

My point is there's a range of consequences when one sells miles via the channels with no affiliation with FFPs (craigslist and ebay are two perfect examples). If you think you can handle the consequences, nobody can stop you.

FWIW, not everyone who gets caught is willing to go public and post on FT. I am sure there are quite a few untold stories out there.

When ticket brokers stop buying miles because they aren't worth the bother, then we'll know the miles game is really over. So in that sense only, I'm glad they're around.

Well, I guess you haven't read enough threads on FT about the accounts being audited and frozen. Otherwise you wouldn't have come to such conclusions. As far as I know, there are threads about sellers getting caught in AA, Delta, NW & UA fora every single year.

I agree the fear of being caught is not the serious part. What's serious is the consequences. If frozen accounts and losing miles are within your comfort zone, please go ahead. I recall reading a thread that someone was barred from flying Delta due to the act of selling lots of Skymiles. I believe there's some legal action involved and he also received a letter from the legal department indicating he's officially on Delta's "no-fly" list. Maybe someone can dig up that thread for your reading pleasure.

My point is there's a range of consequences when one sells miles via the channels with no affiliation with FFPs (craigslist and ebay are two perfect examples). If you think you can handle the consequences, nobody can stop you.

FWIW, not everyone who gets caught is willing to go public and post on FT. I am sure there are quite a few untold stories out there.

You know I respect your views so I will not get into a debate about this. I own my frequent flyer miles, whether I decide to sell my miles on flyhub.com or ebay or anything else, or as the airline would want it, give them away at no cost, is none of the airlines business.

In this economy a lot of people who are less fortunate than us, or perhaps who have lost their jobs and have miles to sell should be allow to do this. As far as I'm concerned anyone who wants to sell their frequent flyer miles, or buy them, should do this as they please. This is why sellyourmiles, flyhub.com and loyalmatch, all these companies are successful in what they do. There are a lot of travelers out there who clearly agree with me. There is a huge market for it and these companies get it.

You know I respect your views so I will not get into a debate about this. I own my frequent flyer miles, whether I decide to sell my miles on flyhub.com or ebay or anything else, or as the airline would want it, give them away at no cost, is none of the airlines business.

In this economy a lot of people who are less fortunate than us, or perhaps who have lost their jobs and have miles to sell should be allow to do this. As far as I'm concerned anyone who wants to sell their frequent flyer miles, or buy them, should do this as they please. This is why sellyourmiles, flyhub.com and loyalmatch, all these companies are successful in what they do. There are a lot of travelers out there who clearly agree with me. There is a huge market for it and these companies get it.

If you can sell your miles, then you should be taxed on them as income. I believe that is an area that most of us no longer wish to visit.

I own my frequent flyer miles

An interesting position, but one which appears to be incorrect. The airlines, at least, maintain that you are some sort of licensee who must follow their rules or they can do what they want. Unless you are ready to litigate big-time (for a whole lot more than anybody's miles are worth) you are probably stuck with this--unless and until someone brings another class action.

An interesting position, but one which appears to be incorrect. The airlines, at least, maintain that you are some sort of licensee who must follow their rules or they can do what they want. Unless you are ready to litigate big-time (for a whole lot more than anybody's miles are worth) you are probably stuck with this--unless and until someone brings another class action.
Airlines definitely own the miles, and can take them away for no reason at all. I would hope they never would, but eh, the law would be on their side.

Flyerd, do you have an affiliation with flyhub? You linked to them in your posts, so just curious. I would never use them as it's spammed on craigslist all the time and wouldn't risk losing my miles as it seems pretty risky to go through a central source like that.

I don't have a moral objection to selling miles, but it's just not worth it considering how easy it is for airlines to track it.

So, I think, if you have/want to sell your miles, sell them to people you know, in person. Can be a win-win, if they save some money (and don't know about earning frequent flier miles :p)

I came across this website www.cashyourmiles.com. Is this legit?

It says to go into their office in Brooklyn. Does that mean you have to show up in person? In any event, if you search the numerous pages of FT I doubt that you will find anyone who thinks it's a good idea to try and get cash for miles. Even if it were ok (which it is not) I'd run from this particular one.

You know I respect your views so I will not get into a debate about this. I own my frequent flyer miles, whether I decide to sell my miles on flyhub.com or ebay or anything else, or as the airline would want it, give them away at no cost, is none of the airlines business.

In this economy a lot of people who are less fortunate than us, or perhaps who have lost their jobs and have miles to sell should be allow to do this. As far as I'm concerned anyone who wants to sell their frequent flyer miles, or buy them, should do this as they please. This is why sellyourmiles, flyhub.com and loyalmatch, all these companies are successful in what they do. There are a lot of travelers out there who clearly agree with me. There is a huge market for it and these companies get it.

I actually agree with you, but I also agree with lin821 that the consequences will be dire if you are caught.

I would not promote the idea of selling miles. ------------ consequences are dire indeed.

Can't deny the airlines have set up rules to dictate how the miles are used. If you mis-use them they can disappear. Even if you don't mis-use them, program rules say FF programs can be discontinued at anytime by the airline. Maybe if they are nice they'll give you six months to use them up. Wouldn't that be a nightmare finding reward seats!

As I read this thread about mile ownership and how to use those banked miles I thought yeah, just like all that money in the bank, your investments, your 401K and all of a sudden overnight it's gone. Was it really your money just because you had a piece of paper or an account that said a dollar amount?

Best rule is to use the miles (and your money) anyway you want while you got it because tomorrow it can be all gone.

I own my frequent flyer milesExcept you don't, as has been explained to you in this thread and in the previous one where you espoused the same view.

is none of the airlines business.Again untrue, since it is explicitly the airline's business (both literally and figuratively), and since they "license" the miles to you, they can explicitly dictate how you may use them.

In this economyYou do realize that the airlines aren't doing very well in this economy, either, right?

If you can sell your miles, then you should be taxed on them as income.Technically, you are... all income must be declared on your return, whether it's from a regular job, a hobby, or whatever. Remember, that's how they got Al Capone...

(And courts have ruled that miles from business travel are a taxable perk if the business deducts the travel expenses... the IRS simply doesn't tax the miles because they haven't figured out a cost-efficient way to do so.)

I would not promote the idea of selling miles. ------------ consequences are dire indeed.
That's exactly my point!

if you are not going to use the miles... sell them. I've been doing this for years,..
flyerd, may I point out this big difference between you and other FTers who do plan to use their miles?

As I read all the threads you started about selling miles on FT, apparently you don't need your miles. Your company/job covers you pretty well and flies you wherever you are going. I am happy for you. You are also a self-claimed pro miles seller and haven't got caught. Even if you get caught, the dire consequences of frozen accounts and forfeited award tickets mean nothing to you since you won't be affected by the lost miles that you are not using anyway. For the rest of us who do plan to use our miles, we rather not to face the consequences.

Please don't take my following comments too personal. You've made your own personal beliefs and action very clear. I see no points to restate what all the FFP terms and conditions to you. You are your own master and decide your own action. If I were you, I would steer away from promoting/persuading others to engage in activities that's breaching any FFP terms and policy. The consequences you are comfortable with personally may not have the same effect on other FTers. Other people may have everything (or should I say every mile ;)) to lose.

If you want to continue the "intellectual discussion" about selling miles, I believe you'd started more than one thread, such as this one (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/milesbuzz/897198-loyalmatch-sellingmiles-com-flyhub-com-has-anyone-used-all-three-sell-miles.html). With respect to OP, I think the original question had been answered. If you want to pursue further the topics of your interests, I think you should do it in your threads.

Here we go again. I realized over the past 15 months or so since I joined FT, that every so often a thread about selling miles will be started. Everyone will chime in with their opinions and then the thread will die together with everyone's opinions - until the next time this topic crops up.

I always enjoy reading these threads and seeing everyones take on this highly controversial topic. My opinion = no use in trying to convince someone not to sell miles due to consequences. They will not listen - the only way they'll stop is if they suffer the consequences and that only needs to happen once since after that they won't be able to do anything with their miles anymore.

Technically, you are... all income must be declared on your return, whether it's from a regular job, a hobby, or whatever. Remember, that's how they got Al Capone...

(And courts have ruled that miles from business travel are a taxable perk if the business deducts the travel expenses... the IRS simply doesn't tax the miles because they haven't figured out a cost-efficient way to do so.)

Unless you are deducting the cost of the ticket, etc. which generated the miles, it is merely a "rebate" and would not be taxable income.

I remember in the 80's a number of court cases that held that property should be freely alienable and that contracts were to provide for mutuality of treatment. Restrictive covenents were rarely enforced unless narrowly drawn and a compelling public interst or policy justified the restriction. Airlines sell billions of miles, hence they don't want to have to compete with you selling them. Though you never know how a court would view this, you know that it would be a major hassle getting to that point.

Unless you are deducting the cost of the ticket, etc. which generated the miles, it is merely a "rebate" and would not be taxable income.Yes, that's why I specified that the perk is taxable if the business deducts its travel expenses. For travel where the cost is not deducted, e.g. for leisure travel where the money used to pay for the ticket has already been taxed, your interpretation is correct. That's why I was quite specific in what I said.

I remember in the 80's a number of court cases that held that property should be freely alienableWhich is why airlines maintain that miles are not property, especially not the property of the traveler.

I did not realize that this has been discussed already. I should have done a search first :o. Anyway I had no intention to sell my miles.When I have seen this website advertised, I was wondering if in fact these websites have a special arrangement with the airlines. I guess many flyers do not realize that their violating the terms and can suffer the consequences.

When I have seen this website advertised, I was wondering if in fact these websites have a special arrangement with the airlines.
As far as I know, Points.com is the only site that has such partnerships with various FFPs. However, don't expect anything close to 1:1 "swap." Just do a search on Points and their GPX, you'll find quite a few discussion threads about the ripoff exchanges/redemptions.

I actually agree with you, but I also agree with lin821 that the consequences will be dire if you are caught.

When I started selling miles on flyhub.com my first question to them was how can you ensure I would never get in trouble, and I liked what they had to say about protecting buyers and sellers' identity by acting as the middleman.

That said, this doesn't mean that I'm not taking a chance when I sell on Craigslist for example, but hopefully airlines have better things to do than come after me. And if they ever did, I'll simply countersue.

You do have a point though chasethemiles, some have gotten caught in the past, not sure where and how they were selling their miles, but I'm gonna guess it was not through flyhub.com or sellyourmiles, I researched both companies extensively before selling on their sites.

That said, this doesn't mean that I'm not taking a chance when I sell on Craigslist for example, but hopefully airlines have better things to do than come after me. And if they ever did, I'll simply countersue.


Foolish.

I own my frequent flyer miles, whether I decide to sell my miles on flyhub.com or ebay or anything else, or as the airline would want it, give them away at no cost, is none of the airlines business.


Saying that doesn't make it true.

hopefully airlines have better things to do than come after me. And if they ever did, I'll simply countersue.

Brilliant strategy. :rolleyes:

When I started selling miles on flyhub.com my first question to them was how can you ensure I would never get in trouble, and I liked what they had to say about protecting buyers and sellers' identity by acting as the middleman....

...some have gotten caught in the past,..but I'm gonna guess it was not through flyhub.com or sellyourmiles, I researched both companies extensively before selling on their sites.
Sigh. Your middleman must be very thrilled that you have such confidence in them and speak so highly of them.

IIRC, you've never redeemed your miles for any award ticket, right?

I have. As far as I know, the airlines can tell which accounts the miles are coming from from the ticket record/reservation/confirmation..etc. They don't necessarily have to go through the "middleman" to obtain the identity of the FFP account holders.

I've said it before and I am going to say it again. There's no point to "convert" you to what us regular FTers believe and vice versa. Just keep the consequences in mind when you proceed.

I found a Google ad today where Ebay.com was advertising Northwest vouchers for sale on Ebay.

I made a screen shot if anyone needs it in the future.

Ebay sure seems to cooperate with the airlines about preventing this activity, but yet advertises it themselves.

Hypocritical? Maybe just a little :rolleyes:

selling of miles (or award tickets) is legal, but in most cases against airline rules (small print).

For the miles&more program (Frequent Flier program of Lufthansa, swiss, austrian, polish) there is a (indirect) way to do it not only legally but also without hurting any airline (or other small print) rules.

This has been done openly many thousand times (and is still done now) and several threads about this are found in the swiss airline forum (a subforum of the miles&more forum).

One of the latest FlyerTalk discussions and tips how to do it can be found here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/swiss-international-airlines/721170-new-coop-1-5-1-promo.html).

I myself have traded several hundred of millions of Coop Superpoints and converted them (regular convertion rate is 2 Superpoints = 1 mile, but from time to time there are promotions like 3 Superpoints = 2 miles, or in the early days, some 4 years ago the promotion conversion was even 1:1 - and from that early promotion days I myself still have over 3 Million miles&more miles in my own account) into miles of different miles&more accounts (including m&m accounts of at least 30 different FlyerTalkers).

Coop Superpoints can be easily and legally (and supported by the Coop Superpoint homepage) traded online (no costs involved), and the conversion into any miles&more account can also be done online on the Coop homepage. The trading of these points and the conversion into any miles&more account are not only within any Coop small print rules, but are even supportedd by Coop online. EVeryone can earn Coop Superoints when shopping in swiss Coop (and partner) outlets. And Superpoints in huge quantities are traded daily on swiss auction platforms (leader of such an auction platform in Switzerland is Ricardo, only second and by far not as competitiv as Ricardo (http://www.ricardo.ch/) is ebay here)

All of the above has been openly shown and discussed in threads and posts on FlyerTalk (always in the swiss airline forum, now the swiss airline forum is a subforum of miles&more).