Australia, New Zealand & the South Pacific - Melbourne/Sydney job opportunity

Hi,
I have worked extensively in Europe, South east Asia and US. I have recently been interviewed for positions in 2 IT companies with operations in Sydney and Melbourne. I would like to know answers to the following
1. What is a good salary for either of these locations in Australia for a single male? I have over 8 yrs of experience in Retail business process and systems consulting (SAP and Oracle) space in one of the big 5 consulting companies and have worked with a host of international clients.
2. Is this a good time to be considering a relocation to Australia particularly in the IT sector?
3. What would be good locations to hunt for houses in Sydney and Melbourne and what are normal rental ranges?
4. How different is Aussie culture vis-a-vis US/European and asian cultures? I have been hearing a lot about the so called "tall poppy" syndrome? how pervasive is it? I have worked with a few good aussie colleagues in the past in Europe and found them to be fun people to be with both in work and play situations. Just getting additional validation from the large user base here on the same.
5. What recreational activities exist in these cities? Any pointers are highly appreciated?
6. Overall work culture in Australian workplace. Is it easy going or more of cut throat competition as is the case in US.

Please feel free to give inputs on any other points i may have missed out.
Thanks in advance
Kannan

I'll try answer your questions

1. Depends alot on the field. in IT I would imagine with that experience you should be earning well over the 100k mark, but others who work in IT can probably give you a better heads up

2. No idea sorry. But generally I wouldn't imagine it's an ideal time to be transfering unless you have firm offers.

3. Big question. Can't really help with Melbourne, for Sydney it would probably help to know a bit more about what your after. Do you want inner city apartment living or a bigger house further out? Do you want to be close to pubs/bars or do you want to live in a more suburby type place.

4. Compared to Europeans IME Australians are much harder workers, having never worked in the USA I cannot make that comparison but I would speculate it is somewhere in between. The tall poppy syndrome is not as big as it is made out to be. Basically Australians are generally unimpressed with others titles/success if your a good bloke then you will be treated as such regardless of whether your making $10,000 or $10 million.

5. How about you tell us what your interested in. Chances are you can do it in Sydney and Melbourne. In Sydney there is a big emphasis on beaches and the harbour and a lot of activities will be based around that.

6. See 4.

Whether it is a "good" time to move there depends where you are coming from and what assets you have. The foreign exchange rate has changed dramatically in the past year, with the AUD crashing -- but so have GBP and CAD. So AUD is very cheap relative to some currencies (EUR and USD, for example). Historically it has been volatile for decades and the outlook is to drop further (so transferring assets from EUR to AUD is a higher risk than from GBP to AUD). The rental market is quite expensive, at least for desirable properties in SYD and MEL -- as expensive as San Francisco, Manhattan, London for example. So again it depends what you are used to. One of the reasons that so many Aussies live in UK, US or Europe is to make money -- moving to Australia to get rich is a poor plan. The quality of life is much better in other ways, but earned income and materialism is not one of them. Work in Australia is quite laid back. Whenever I visit someone on a business trip there, going to the pub at 3 pm is mandatory. And some employers even provide a fridge stocked with beer in the workplace (perhaps to keep people from the pub). As long as you expect to make less money than in UK/Germany/US, but live a more natural and better life, then you will like Australia.

I'll take my stab

1 - It depends a lot on exactly what your experience is but with 8 years experience with one of the big consulting companies but I would imagine 150+ (and could be + a fair bit). SYD will likely have a higher salary which reflects the higher living costs (though not that much higher these days)

2 - I think it is, we're not hit as hard as say the US or London and there's a few big IT projects starting to come through. There's also been a major shortage of experienced IT consultants for, well, it seems like forever and I haven't seen much evidence of that changing.

3 - As bensyd said it really depends on what you're looking for

4 - I'd say the big difference is that australian work culture is more laid back but more efficient. I think australians tend to be more pragmatic than other cultures and don't tend to have strict hierarchies in the office. It's more about get the job done, have a few laughs while doing it then get out of the office and go to the pub/beach/whatever. Compared to aus I found europe was a bit lazier, the US was more formal and asia worked longer hours but f'd around a lot and got less done. Tall poppy syndrome is a myth really, australians are a bit more egalitarian where people are judged more on character than wealth and flashy displays are very much frowned on but if you work hard, do a good job and are decent to people you'll be respected, not disliked for your success.

5 - SYD and MEL are decent size cities so it's a case of what do you want to do.

6 - More laid back, less corporate bullsh.....

I'll take my stab ...


I agree with IMOA's comments.

In my experience there's a dearth of good Oracle EBS experience in Australia although it depends to some extent on what your area of expertise is. I can't comment on SAP.

If you're good, 150+ is definitely the market rate.

+1, we tried to recruit an Oracle developer for around a year in the $120k mark, no takers. Gave up and changed ERP systems!

Hi all,
Thanks for the inputs. I will update once the recruiters revert on location and compensation range.
Kannan

Work in Australia is quite laid back. Whenever I visit someone on a business trip there, going to the pub at 3 pm is mandatory.

Can I ask what industry this is in? I have worked in banking and four a "big 4" consulting firm in Sydney and in neither instance was that the case. However in London it seemed nothing out of the ordinary to go to the pub at 12 on a Friday.

sydney and melbourne are generally the 2 most competive places in australia for work placements.

In terms of job opportunity, most expats who get in from the us or europe normally get in because they know a friend or so. In terms of remuneration, there are a few websites which lists current salary payments. It would depend on individual circumstances.

However, compared to other places, australia is generally quite quick at letting people go. So you may find the initial job opportunity enticing but be prepared to be dumped quickly especially if your contact is no longer with the company.

Most asian uni grads have recently been finding it difficult to get that entry job in these 2 places and i have a few friends who after 1 year with the company have been asked to leave or paid to look for alternative job placements.

Australia has traditionally been a more expensive place to live, work and study and a lot of american friends have compared it to the prices of europe.

In terms of culture and living situation, there is a huge emphasis on capitalism and unlike some readers, i don't agree that australians tend to work harder, they just tend to work hard when the money is tangibly good and easier to get.

The economy has traditionally been hugely dependant on domestic demand and commodities and its expected the general global sentiment will not affect the economy as bad as other places but that hasn't stopped employers from taking advantage by cutting costs like reducing full time jobs and increasing profits. Petrol is still $1.10/litre in my area when oil is now below usd40.00 per gallon.

As an "outsider", my advise is if you are looking for short term benefits and you don't mind paying through the nose, you can try australia. If you are looking at long term career prospects, it may wise to consider elsewhere.

However, compared to other places, australia is generally quite quick at letting people go. So you may find the initial job opportunity enticing but be prepared to be dumped quickly especially if your contact is no longer with the company.

Most asian uni grads have recently been finding it difficult to get that entry job in these 2 places and i have a few friends who after 1 year with the company have been asked to leave or paid to look for alternative job placements.

Australia has traditionally been a more expensive place to live, work and study and a lot of american friends have compared it to the prices of europe.


Wow. Interesting thoughts. None of which I believe are true - but everyone is right to have their opinion.

Which country in Asia would you recommend working in?

Can I ask what industry this is in? I have worked in banking and four a "big 4" consulting firm in Sydney and in neither instance was that the case. However in London it seemed nothing out of the ordinary to go to the pub at 12 on a Friday.

Whether it is a "good" time to move there depends where you are coming from and what assets you have. The foreign exchange rate has changed dramatically in the past year, with the AUD crashing -- but so have GBP and CAD. So AUD is very cheap relative to some currencies (EUR and USD, for example). Historically it has been volatile for decades and the outlook is to drop further (so transferring assets from EUR to AUD is a higher risk than from GBP to AUD). The rental market is quite expensive, at least for desirable properties in SYD and MEL -- as expensive as San Francisco, Manhattan, London for example. So again it depends what you are used to. One of the reasons that so many Aussies live in UK, US or Europe is to make money -- moving to Australia to get rich is a poor plan. The quality of life is much better in other ways, but earned income and materialism is not one of them. Work in Australia is quite laid back. Whenever I visit someone on a business trip there, going to the pub at 3 pm is mandatory. And some employers even provide a fridge stocked with beer in the workplace (perhaps to keep people from the pub). As long as you expect to make less money than in UK/Germany/US, but live a more natural and better life, then you will like Australia.

Have to agree with bensyd on this having worked within a number of big 4 consulting as well as a couple of law and other professional services firms (in both countries). In fact, I find Australia quite prudish when it comes to drinking and lunch. In addition to this, I always find staff are generally expected to work longer hours in Australia compared to the UK. I do however find Australian firms less 'political' compared to the UK/EU, although some can certainly feel more 'macho' at times.

In terms of currency, the AUD whilst initially falling during the early days of the financial crisis has actually recovered a great deal over the past 2 months or so pretty much across all currencies.

In respect to number_6's comment on salaries, I have found many professional jobs are paid just as well in Australia as they are in the UK/EU. The core difference is the depth of experience one can get overseas, although there are the flipside to this is that in Australia it is easier to get a broader range experience than would be possible in the UK (& the rest of Europe), or at least this has been my experience.

The only point I will agree with number_6 on is the fully stocked fridge although this is generally opened only after 5:30-6pm on Fridays. Something I miss as it's a great time to bond with work colleagues at someone else's expense! ;)

My biggest complaint about Australia is the so called tall poppy syndrome the OP refers to.

In respect to number_6's comment on salaries, I have found many professional jobs are paid just as well in Australia as they are in the UK/EU. The core difference is the depth of experience one can get overseas, although there are the flipside to this is that in Australia it is easier to get a broader range experience than would be possible in the UK (& the rest of Europe), or at least this has been my experience.
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I think this is a relatively recent phenomenon, until maybe 5 or so years ago Australian salaries lagged behind their overseas counterparts. There is definatley alot of money in Australia these days and Sydney (and to a lesser extent Melbourne) is a rich city by international standards. I think perhaps some of the views of some posters are about 10 or so years behind where Australia is.