Newsstand - Flying While Muslim

This week in ASK THE PILOT

The Hazards of “Flying while Muslim.”

Plus, surly airport staff, ugly paintjobs, and Africa’s coolest airport


On airport staff…

“…It always amazes me how professional the ground workers are at airports outside the United States, even in poor countries. They are often neatly uniformed, and in some cities will stand in formation as the airplane pulls in. Heck, in Japan, it's traditional for the workers, clad in jumpsuits and hard-hats, to *bow* to departing flights. The equipment used a foreign airports -- the carts and tugs and cargo loaders – also tends to be in much better condition than our own. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of hardworking staff in airports across America, but all too often the typical gateside scene is one of rusted-out, banged-up vehicles and scowling workers in Yankees caps and greasy untucked shirts, who act as though they can't be bothered to marshall in your plane…”


On “Flying While Muslim”…

“…On New Years Day, nine Muslim passengers headed for a vacation in Florida were kicked off an AirTran flight at Reagan National airport in Washington, DC. The nine, eight of whom were Americans, including several women and children, had roused the suspicion of other passengers through such clearly threatening gestures as talking about the location of emergency exits and discussing which were the safest seats.

Similar episodes of passenger vigilantism have occurred sporadically ever since the terror attacks in 2001. Some of them would almost be funny if they weren't so offensive, ignorant, and a menace to civil liberties. The crime of “flying while Muslim,” some have called it, whereby innocuous comments and gestures that would normally go unnoticed become “suspicious activity,” leading to detainments, arrests, and even threats of physical violence. Although this was the first such case in a while, it's clear that we remain spring-loaded to foolishness and overreaction.

Three years ago this column covered the story of Raed Jarrar, an architect and project director for a human rights group, who was denied boarding at Kennedy airport until he agreed to remove a cotton t-shirt emblazoned with the phrase, “We will not be silenced” in Arabic script. Earlier this week, Jarrar was awarded $240,000 in a settlement with TSA and JetBlue Airways.

The Jarrar incident is especially troubling because it makes so little sense. Not only did security at JFK assume that Jarrar was potentially dangerous because of his shirt, they also assumed that making him * remove the shirt * would do away with the danger. When he finally agreed to put on a different one, they let him board the aircraft. The shirt was not considered a sign of some hidden threat; it was considered dangerous in and of itself. It’s disturbing that not only are too many Americans so easily frightened, but that they require such infantile coddling in order to feel safe…”


The full article is here…
http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2009/01/09/askthepilot304/

Access to Salon is free. Watch for the “skip this ad” or “enter Salon” links on the gateway page.


Last time in ASK THE PILOT: Bailout Nation. Will the airlines follow Detroit to the government trough?

http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2008/12/19/askthepilot303/

On “Flying While Muslim”…

“…On New Years Day, nine Muslim passengers headed for a vacation in Florida were kicked off an AirTran flight at Reagan National airport in Washington, DC. The nine, eight of whom were Americans, including several women and children, had roused the suspicion of other passengers through such clearly threatening gestures as talking about the location of emergency exits and discussing which were the safest seats.

Similar episodes of passenger vigilantism have occurred sporadically ever since the terror attacks in 2001. Some of them would almost be funny if they weren't so offensive, ignorant, and a menace to civil liberties. The crime of “flying while Muslim,” some have called it, whereby innocuous comments and gestures that would normally go unnoticed become “suspicious activity,” leading to detainments, arrests, and even threats of physical violence. Although this was the first such case in a while, it's clear that we remain spring-loaded to foolishness and overreaction.

Three years ago this column covered the story of Raed Jarrar, an architect and project director for a human rights group, who was denied boarding at Kennedy airport until he agreed to remove a cotton t-shirt emblazoned with the phrase, “We will not be silenced” in Arabic script. Earlier this week, Jarrar was awarded $240,000 in a settlement with TSA and JetBlue Airways.

The Jarrar incident is especially troubling because it makes so little sense. Not only did security at JFK assume that Jarrar was potentially dangerous because of his shirt, they also assumed that making him * remove the shirt * would do away with the danger. When he finally agreed to put on a different one, they let him board the aircraft. The shirt was not considered a sign of some hidden threat; it was considered dangerous in and of itself. It’s disturbing that not only are too many Americans so easily frightened, but that they require such infantile coddling in order to feel safe…”
I must say, that is an excellent summary of a despicable situation.

Unfortunately, it was pilots that began the whole practice of removing Muslims from aircraft post-9/11. Unfortunately, none of the pilots have been held accountable for their actions. Fortunately, we know all their names. Below is one of the first instances of flying while Muslim to be documented after the alleged hijacking of american aircraft on 11/9.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=flying_while_brown

Excerpt:
Like everyone else at San Antonio airport on the night of September 17, Ashraf Khan passed through tight security before boarding Delta Airlines flight 1469 to Dallas, the first leg of a two-day journey to Karachi, Pakistan, where he planned to attend his brother's wedding. Khan, an 11-year U.S. resident with a green card, had settled into his first-class seat when the pilot announced that the plane would be delayed. Minutes later, the pilot left the cockpit, approached Khan, and asked to speak with him in the gate area outside the plane. There the pilot declared that he and his crew did not feel safe flying with Khan on board and even questioned how the 32-year-old businessman had managed to get a first-class ticket. Angry and humiliated, Khan returned to the terminal and watched the plane leave without him.

Widespread fear of further terrorist attacks has led to the removal of more than a dozen brown-skinned men from flights throughout the country because they were perceived to be from the Middle East and hence a terrorist threat. Several South Asian and Arab men, and others who appear "Middle Eastern," claim that their civil rights have been violated by airline staff and pilots who practice a new form of racial profiling. While just about everyone is willing to accept heightened airport security and even increased questioning of certain passengers in the wake of the September 11 attacks, civil-rights advocates insist that the fine line between profiling at security checkpoints and barring or ejecting passengers must be drawn more clearly. Though strong words from federal officials and airline CEOs have led to a decline in profiling incidents since early October, the spate of incidents in September have left airlines with many thorny legal questions to answer.

Unfortunately, it was pilots that began the whole practice of removing Muslims from aircraft post-9/11. Unfortunately, none of the pilots have been held accountable for their actions. Fortunately, we know all their names. Below is one of the first instances of flying while Muslim to be documented after the alleged hijacking of american aircraft on 11/9.

And it was a pilot who ordered the removal of the 9 "suspicious" passengers from the flight out of DCA a couple weeks ago, too.

The situation is bad, but pilots, as a group, are complicit in the racism being practiced regularly these days.

The situation is bad, but pilots, as a group, are complicit in the racism being practiced regularly these days.
I wouldn't even say "complicit". I'd say "instrumental". The pilot could say "Sit down everybody, shut up, let's leave these poor people alone, and let's get on our way." Instead they say "Off with the brown people."

It's a national disgrace.

The phrase "Flying while Muslim" reminds me of the phrase "Driving While Black."

As a former law enforcement officer with more than a decade of street experience, I can affirm that "driving while black" is not a figment of imagination. Black motorists are cited for certain offenses at a ratio that is wildly out of proportion to their overall percentage of the population.

Considering the expense, major inconvenience, and humiliation of being bounced off a flight, we need to address this problem without stripping pilots of their traditional right to determine who is on their flight. I think it should be addressed legislatively, rather than on an ad hoc basis of individual civil rights litigation.

Perhaps if a pilot bounced someone off their flight, and after secondary screening they are found to be absolutely no threat, the airline was required by law to fly those people to their destination by immediate air taxi, pilots would think long and hard before taking such a drastic action. Or perhaps fly them to their destination in first class on the next available flight any carrier, at the pilot's carriers expense.

I understand the long tradition of "the captain is in charge of the ship" and "the pilot is in charge of the plane," but if there are financial consequences to abusing this authority, perhaps it will be used more responsibly.

Unfortunately, it was pilots that began the whole practice of removing Muslims from aircraft post-9/11. Unfortunately, none of the pilots have been held accountable for their actions.Please - The passengers reporting those who are removed have culpability too.

My wife is American. A Bangladeshi American. Before we went on our honeymoon, she had only left the country twice -- once with other doctors on a medical mission to Honduras and once to visit her grandma in Bangladesh.

When we fly back to the states from the many trips she now goes on with me, she is routinely hassled at security and even sent to "the little room" at ICE (where they usually immediately say "Sorry ma'am - I don't know why you were sent back here. You can go." (and every other brown person in the room looks at me, the only white guy in there, wondering what the hell I had to do to get sent back there)

I, a white guy, on the other hand, have stuff in my passport like a half of sub-saharan Africa, most of the Arabian peninsula, a lot of MR quick turns at airports around the world, and even a Trading with the Enemies Act stamp for travel to North Korea. I've never gotten hassled or sent to the little room.

I can only imagine what would happen if she someday decided to wear hijab. It's just racism and discrimination and it's appalling that it goes on in this country in the 21st century.

I suppose we're all safer when they spend their time hassling American, ivy league educated surgeons, who happen to be brown and have furrin soundin names. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::mad::mad::mad:

peace,
~Ben~

(and every other brown person in the room looks at me, the only white guy in there, wondering what the hell I had to do to get sent back there)

Yes, I've seen you in that room. I too have wondered what you were doing there. Thanks for clearing up the mystery. BTW, I'm the one constantly threatened with being arrested for using my ipod, mobile, laptop or taking pictures. :confused:

You don't even have to be Muslim to get the "Flying While Muslim" treatment.

I'm a US-born white Christian woman, but if I wear traditional Muslim attire (shalwar chameez I bought on medical aid trips), the extra security and funny looks start right away.

Disgraceful and unAmerican.

I was at a checkpoint a few years ago behind 2 Muslim families with children in strollers. It was just amazing to witness the huge difference in tone of voice between how the TSOs reacted to the family and then to me.

No one deserves that.

I think ignorant passengers are part of the problem, but pilots have initiated many removals without any passenger suggestions.

Maybe the people involved in these situations should be forced into cultural sensitivity training.

Onlyairfare, your experience is unfortunate. On behalf of Muslims everywhere, I apologize that you, Sikh men, Jewish women w/ headcoverings, and all brown or olive skinned individuals, experience the racism and religious bigotry aimed at Muslims. We are sorry for the inconvenience and hope technology can be developed that will allow only real Muslims to be targeted for such harassssment.

Well gee, thanks PhlyingRPh, but I'm reminded of Colin Powell's response to a query regarding the John McCain supporter who had to be disabused of her assertion that Obama was "an Arab, a Muslim" (as though that were something awful).

Well, what if he were a Muslim?

Most of us have had enough of this arbitrary discrimination, and we should pressure to see that those responsible are held individually accountable.

Well gee, thanks PhlyingRPh, but I'm reminded of Colin Powell's response to a query regarding the John McCain supporter who had to be disabused of her assertion that Obama was "an Arab, a Muslim" (as though that were something awful).

Well, what if he were a Muslim?

Most of us have had enough of this arbitrary discrimination, and we should pressure to see that those responsible are held individually accountable.

Hear, hear! I don't know, but I would venture to guess that PhlyingRPh was just being tongue-in-cheek about how stupid the screeners are and meant no offense...

I appreciate the sentiments and support. It's pretty easy for me to get away with being a "closet Muslim" when it suits me since I'm a Scandanavian looking American guy with a bland last name, but it sucks that it's at all necessary.

peace,
~Ben~

Hear, hear! I don't know, but I would venture to guess that PhlyingRPh was just being tongue-in-cheek about how stupid the screeners are and meant no offense...

I appreciate the sentiments and support. It's pretty easy for me to get away with being a "closet Muslim" when it suits me since I'm a Scandanavian looking American guy with a bland last name, but it sucks that it's at all necessary.

peace,
~Ben~

^^ I get it (from she who can also be tongue in cheek). There is certainly abundant evidence over on TS&S (and elsewhere) that not every TSO or Customs employee had a sensitivity immunization that "took".

Hear, hear! I don't know, but I would venture to guess that PhlyingRPh was just being tongue-in-cheek about how stupid the screeners are and meant no offense...

Correct. PhlyingRPh never means to offend. However, PhlyingRPh is crass and often unqualified to be in polite company. My apologies for any offense caused.

appreciate the sentiments and support. It's pretty easy for me to get away with being a "closet Muslim" when it suits me since I'm a Scandanavian looking American guy with a bland last name, but it sucks that it's at all necessary.

peace,
~Ben~

Hmm. I think I'll change my last name to Rabbinowitz.

I nominate this thread for politically correct thread of the year.

I'd also like to point out that since 9/11 no American planes have been hijacked by radical Islamists, so despite all the complaints on these forums about bigoted passengers, ignorant pilots, and evil TSA agents, somebody somewhere is doing something right to protect travelers.

In a perfect world we could detect terrorists with 100% accuracy without inconveniencing or embarrassing any members of the traveling public. Meanwhile people will do their best, and that means some innocent travelers will be falsely suspected of posing a threat.

I suggest that for people who are rightly fed up with being profiled, instead of complaining about those who do the profiling, they should do what they can to decrease the amount of mayhem and destruction perpetrated by people who look, speak, dress, and worship just like them. Then perhaps there would be no need to profile people in the first place. I have seen more people complain about being profiled than stand up and vocally object to members of their community supporting or engaging in terrorism.

If there were an epidemic of 45 year old blue-eyed married balding white guys committing terrorist acts, then I imagine I would be profiled on regular basis while traveling. If that were to happen, instead of crying about it, I would take some personal responsibility, stand up and organize some opposition to the terrorists among my community, and make vocal public statements denouncing terrorism. This is precisely what has been lacking among the majority of the "profiled" group to date.

I nominate this thread for politically correct thread of the year.

I'd also like to point out that since 9/11 no American planes have been hijacked by radical Islamists, so despite all the complaints on these forums about bigoted passengers, ignorant pilots, and evil TSA agents, somebody somewhere is doing something right to protect travelers.

In a perfect world we could detect terrorists with 100% accuracy without inconveniencing or embarrassing any members of the traveling public. Meanwhile people will do their best, and that means some innocent travelers will be falsely suspected of posing a threat.

I suggest that for people who are rightly fed up with being profiled, instead of complaining about those who do the profiling, they should do what they can to decrease the amount of mayhem and destruction perpetrated by people who look, speak, dress, and worship just like them. Then perhaps there would be no need to profile people in the first place. I have seen more people complain about being profiled than stand up and vocally object to members of their community supporting or engaging in terrorism.

If there were an epidemic of 45 year old blue-eyed married balding white guys committing terrorist acts, then I imagine I would be profiled on regular basis while traveling. If that were to happen, instead of crying about it, I would take some personal responsibility, stand up and organize some opposition to the terrorists among my community, and make vocal public statements denouncing terrorism. This is precisely what has been lacking among the majority of the "profiled" group to date.

The assertions you put forth are untrue. Plenty evidence of Muslims decrying unsavoury actions committed on their behalf.

OTOH, you might be right about me, and I am a distinct minority in this regard. I am no Uncle Tom, so I refuse to apologize to racists and religious bigots for the acts of murderers just because they, like me are dark skinned or allegedly share my religious beliefs.

You may decide to apologize for killers like Adolf Hitler, both George Bushes, Ehud Olmert or the fat vegetable he replaced, if you like, but frankly they are the murderers, not you, so why would you think it appropriate to apologize for what they have done??? Is it guilt? I don't understand :confused:

I nominate this thread for politically correct thread of the year.

I'd also like to point out that since 9/11 no American planes have been hijacked by radical Islamists, so despite all the complaints on these forums about bigoted passengers, ignorant pilots, and evil TSA agents, somebody somewhere is doing something right to protect travelers.

In a perfect world we could detect terrorists with 100% accuracy without inconveniencing or embarrassing any members of the traveling public. Meanwhile people will do their best, and that means some innocent travelers will be falsely suspected of posing a threat.

I suggest that for people who are rightly fed up with being profiled, instead of complaining about those who do the profiling, they should do what they can to decrease the amount of mayhem and destruction perpetrated by people who look, speak, dress, and worship just like them. Then perhaps there would be no need to profile people in the first place. I have seen more people complain about being profiled than stand up and vocally object to members of their community supporting or engaging in terrorism.

If there were an epidemic of 45 year old blue-eyed married balding white guys committing terrorist acts, then I imagine I would be profiled on regular basis while traveling. If that were to happen, instead of crying about it, I would take some personal responsibility, stand up and organize some opposition to the terrorists among my community, and make vocal public statements denouncing terrorism. This is precisely what has been lacking among the majority of the "profiled" group to date.

That's a tired argument that simply isn't true. There is vocal outrage in the Muslim community against all forms of terrorism in the Muslim and non-Muslim world. Constantly. Two Imams at my mosque have received presidential medals for their work with DHS and the FBI in the past. The progressive American Muslim community speaks out and protests constantly against violence and radicalism -- I know because I go to those events.

Your defense of racial/ethnic/religious profiling is simply wrongheaded. Civil rights arguments aside for the moment, it simply doesn't work. There is a good reason that no El Al flights have been brought down -- Israeli security doesn't use religious/ethnic/racial profiling whatsoever. They use highly trained security people who conduct behavioral profiling based upon passenger interviews and their reactions. The Germans have the same approach to my knowledge. The tactical problem with religious/racial/ethnic profiling is that it simply doesn't work.

Moreover, it seems from your post that you implicitly accept sacrificing of the civil rights of a lot of very patriotic Americans on the basis of their religion or ethnic background. Ben Franklin said "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." I think you should be ashamed of yourself.

peace,
~Ben~

That's a tired argument that simply isn't true. There is vocal outrage in the Muslim community against all forms of terrorism in the Muslim and non-Muslim world. Constantly. Two Imams at my mosque have received presidential medals for their work with DHS and the FBI in the past. The progressive American Muslim community speaks out and protests constantly against violence and radicalism -- I know because I go to those events.

Your defense of racial/ethnic/religious profiling is simply wrongheaded. Civil rights arguments aside for the moment, it simply doesn't work. There is a good reason that no El Al flights have been brought down -- Israeli security doesn't use religious/ethnic/racial profiling whatsoever. They use highly trained security people who conduct behavioral profiling based upon passenger interviews and their reactions. The Germans have the same approach to my knowledge. The tactical problem with religious/racial/ethnic profiling is that it simply doesn't work.

Moreover, it seems from your post that you implicitly accept sacrificing of the civil rights of a lot of very patriotic Americans on the basis of their religion or ethnic background. Ben Franklin said "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." I think you should be ashamed of yourself.

peace,
~Ben~

Your eloquence in communicating your thoughts on what is one of the biggest untruths spread about the Muslim mainstream is appreciated and admired. ^

That's a tired argument that simply isn't true. There is vocal outrage in the Muslim community against all forms of terrorism in the Muslim and non-Muslim world. Constantly. Two Imams at my mosque have received presidential medals for their work with DHS and the FBI in the past. The progressive American Muslim community speaks out and protests constantly against violence and radicalism -- I know because I go to those events.

~Ben~

If this is true (and I would very much like for it to be true) then why have I never read of this on the news or seen any TV news stories about it?

It would be really nice to see a headline on tomorrow's New York Times stating stating something like "100,000 Arab Americans rally against violence" or "Leading Muslim Clerics Issue Statement Repudiating Terrorism". Or even to see local Muslims in my community publicly make a statement against violence. I haven't seen any of this. If it is really going on, then these people need to make their efforts more publicly known.

If this is true (and I would very much like for it to be true) then why have I never read of this on the news or seen any TV news stories about it?

It would be really nice to see a headline on tomorrow's New York Times stating stating something like "100,000 Arab Americans rally against violence" or "Leading Muslim Clerics Issue Statement Repudiating Terrorism". Or even to see local Muslims in my community publicly make a statement against violence. I haven't seen any of this. If it is really going on, then these people need to make their efforts more publicly known.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not going on. COU is full of Muslims who get on TV after the events to state it doesn't represent Islam.

I don't know if it is a cultural thing or not (and there are too many cultures represented by Muslims to generalize anything) but it seems like individual Muslims are very eager to state the true teachings of Islam to other individuals or small groups, but I don't know if a 100,000 Arab American rally would come into fruition. Also, there are many muslims who are not Arabs ;)

If this is true (and I would very much like for it to be true) then why have I never read of this on the news or seen any TV news stories about it?

It would be really nice to see a headline on tomorrow's New York Times stating stating something like "100,000 Arab Americans rally against violence" or "Leading Muslim Clerics Issue Statement Repudiating Terrorism". Or even to see local Muslims in my community publicly make a statement against violence. I haven't seen any of this. If it is really going on, then these people need to make their efforts more publicly known.

Both of those things happen hundreds of times a year, though if continue to rely on news outlets with racist and anti Muslim slants you will never hear about them. Try visiting a Masjid, reading one of the american Muslim organization websites, etc and you will see for yourself. Of course, under the current circumstances (i.e., americans and israelis murdering Muslims worldwide then blaming Muslims for their own deaths) I consider such people to be Uncle Toms and again, I must reiterate the strong offence taken at being asked to apologize for the actions of murderers or even to be associated with the actions of others based on factors such as race or religion. It is pure racism to do so. I don't ask you to apologize for the actions of Hitler or Olmert so why should I have to apologize for the actions of people I have nothing to do with? :td::td::td:

http://www.cair.com/AmericanMuslims/AntiTerrorism.aspx

THis page has a link to a 68 page document listing all condemnations of terrorism by American Muslims since the alleged events of 9/11.

http://www.cair.com/Portals/0/pdf/September_11_statements.pdf

Fatwa against terrorism:
http://www.cair.com/AmericanMuslims/AntiTerrorism/FatwaAgainstTerrorism.aspx


Again, Muslims owe NO ONE an apology for terrorism unless they are the ones that actually carried out such acts, and also because as a group, the real victims of terrorism are Muslims and certainly there is not a single apology or statement from american official organizations condemning the murders carried out by the u.s. against Muslims which now number well into the millions.

If this is true (and I would very much like for it to be true) then why have I never read of this on the news or seen any TV news stories about it?

It would be really nice to see a headline on tomorrow's New York Times stating stating something like "100,000 Arab Americans rally against violence" or "Leading Muslim Clerics Issue Statement Repudiating Terrorism". Or even to see local Muslims in my community publicly make a statement against violence. I haven't seen any of this. If it is really going on, then these people need to make their efforts more publicly known.

It is true, it is on the news and in the press, and there have been large rallies. The fact is, it isn't a "sexy" news story, but it is out there consistently and constantly. I'd provide umpteen links here, but you have the internets and can google or do a lexis nexis search, I'm sure. Instead here's two to start with:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/islfatwa.htm

http://www.google.com/search?sa=N&tab=nw&q=islam%20terror%20repudiate

To your question about the 100,000 Muslim objectors -- the first link has a link to the petition thus far signed by 700,000+ Muslims. Or here's one better -- how about MILLIONS of Indian Muslims protesting the Mumbai attacks over the Eid holidays in solidarity with their countrymen of all religions: http://www.theasiannews.co.uk/community/heritage/s/1085861_media_silent_as_indian_muslims_forego_holi day (and numerous other stories on this)

That story about the peaceful solidarity of millions wasn't reported at all. Not as sexy as 40 nutjobs shooting stuff up and killing people, I guess.

Also, I think it is pitiable that someone who thinks unconstitutional profiling and violations of American's civil rights is tacitly acceptable also wants to know where the outrage is. :rolleyes:

Since the previous poster mentioned "not all Muslims are Arab" it's worth reenforcing that point here -- fewer than 15% of all Muslims in the world are Arab. The fastest growing demographic is in Hispanic communities. How's that profiling going? :rolleyes:

peace,
~Ben~

If this is true (and I would very much like for it to be true) then why have I never read of this on the news or seen any TV news stories about it?

Easily explained -- the prejudiced see what they want to see and ignore what they want to ignore.

I suggest that for people who are rightly fed up with being profiled, instead of complaining about those who do the profiling, they should do what they can to decrease the amount of mayhem and destruction perpetrated by people who look, speak, dress, and worship just like them.

Tell me, sir or madam, what would you suggest for those of us who look, speak, dress and worship like Timothy McVeigh? You know: Anglo, American-accented English, t-shirt and jeans, lapsed Catholic?

Not only are most Muslims not Arab, it is also true that many Arabs are Christians, as others have stated. trilinearmipmap you seem to be misinformed. As I have done peace activist and medical aid work, I've worked along side many such people.

They are not at all hard to see, as long as one is willing to give up the belief that they do not exist.

Not only are most Muslims not Arab, it is also true that many Arabs are Christians, as others have stated.
And others are Jews, and others are fire-worshipping Zoroastrians.

There is no one-size-fits-all template for a "terrorist". Anyone who suggests otherwise gets a big :td:.

Easily explained -- the prejudiced see what they want to see and ignore what they want to ignore.

Another factor is the combination of time given to reporting such things - it is truly minimal, and the language used by reporters/news anchors/writers when reporting terrorism. For instance, half a line might in a half page report on a bombing might make reference to the fact that the act was condemned by XYZ Government or religious leaders, while the rest of the report will explain multiple times that those responsible are Muslims, etc. Not saying they should ignore who did what, just stating that the inherent reporting biases and time/space constraints that exist don't allow for a more balanced reporting of such events. Meanwhile, the same biases, cause any terrorism perpetrated by the u.s. or israel to be reported as worthy, heroic actions.

I nominate this thread for politically correct thread of the year.

I'd also like to point out that since 9/11 no American planes have been hijacked by radical Islamists, so despite all the complaints on these forums about bigoted passengers, ignorant pilots, and evil TSA agents, somebody somewhere is doing something right to protect travelers.

Finally someone recognizes the massive contribution that I made to travel safety when I turned on my magic anti-terrorist rock on September 12, 2001. Clearly it is working.

I suggest that for people who are rightly fed up with being profiled, instead of complaining about those who do the profiling, they should do what they can to decrease the amount of mayhem and destruction perpetrated by people who look, speak, dress, and worship just like them. Then perhaps there would be no need to profile people in the first place. I have seen more people complain about being profiled than stand up and vocally object to members of their community supporting or engaging in terrorism.

If there were an epidemic of 45 year old blue-eyed married balding white guys committing terrorist acts, then I imagine I would be profiled on regular basis while traveling. If that were to happen, instead of crying about it, I would take some personal responsibility, stand up and organize some opposition to the terrorists among my community, and make vocal public statements denouncing terrorism. This is precisely what has been lacking among the majority of the "profiled" group to date.
Do you have any magic potion to change the colour of my skin from Tawny to White?
There is a business case for you whilst I rally all the people of my ethnic group to become your preferred customers so that they can avoid harassment & profiling and let the Caucasians from European descent fly w/o worrying about terrorism.
Oh I forgot what was the hair and skin colour of Andreas Baader, Gudrun Ensslin, Horst Mahler, Ulrike Meinhof, Irmgard Möller again :rolleyes:

http://www.cair.com/AmericanMuslims/AntiTerrorism.aspx

THis page has a link to a 68 page document listing all condemnations of terrorism by American Muslims since the alleged events of 9/11.

http://www.cair.com/Portals/0/pdf/September_11_statements.pdf

Fatwa against terrorism:
http://www.cair.com/AmericanMuslims/AntiTerrorism/FatwaAgainstTerrorism.aspx



Interesting links. They are the first I have read regarding any repudiation of terrorism by Muslims. The party line if I recall correctly was that 9/11 was actually a Zionist plot. If these links actually represent mainstream Islamic thought then that is a step forward.


Again, Muslims owe NO ONE an apology for terrorism unless they are the ones that actually carried out such acts, and also because as a group, the real victims of terrorism are Muslims and certainly there is not a single apology or statement from american official organizations condemning the murders carried out by the u.s. against Muslims which now number well into the millions.

I am sorry but the real victims of terrorism are the people who get blown up/shot/have their throats slit, and their surviving family members. But I will agree that the net result of the terrorist violence is a worsening of conditions for Muslims everywhere as people respond negatively to each terrorist attack.

It certainly is not just people with a different skin color that gets profiled. I'm a young, white married woman. Until recently I traveled on sub-Sahara African country passport. Every time I pulled that sucker out I got pulled out for extra questioning and another quick look in my carry-on. Although I have not been pulled into the little white room, quite a few officers at SEA knows my entire family and their relationship to me, where they live, where they work and numerous other inane details about my life.

Interesting links. They are the first I have read regarding any repudiation of terrorism by Muslims. The party line if I recall correctly was that 9/11 was actually a Zionist plot. If these links actually represent mainstream Islamic thought then that is a step forward.

What's a "party line"? There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. There is no central authority for the religion and no clearinghouse of what is the "correct" interpretation of the Quran and ahadeeth let alone modern geopolitical phenomenon. You're generalizing and simplifying to the extreme in this thread.

I'm happy to share the links. CAIR and ISNA represent the large, overwhelming majority of Muslims in the US and one can safely say that those links very much represent mainstream Muslim sentiment amongst American Muslims.

The nutjobs who said it was a "Zionist plot" are the same tiny minority who are OK with the violence in general and who don't understand their own professed religion. There are probably as few of them as there are people who think the man didn't land on the moon and Elvis is still alive. We all of course recognize the infamous conspiricy theorists I'm referring to in the last two examples, but I'm willing to wager that neither of us knows people who actually hold those views. The parallel here for an infamous minority of whackos applies, IMHO. They are out there, but are just as discredited and laughed off by Muslims as by non-Muslims.

peace,
~Ben~

Interesting links. They are the first I have read regarding any repudiation of terrorism by Muslims. The party line if I recall correctly was that 9/11 was actually a Zionist plot. If these links actually represent mainstream Islamic thought then that is a step forward.

So glad it meets with your approval. Yay.

Now, can you please direct me to a petition signed by 30-45% of american Non-Muslims that repudiates the wholesale slaughter of Muslims by american military thugs/terrorists. Oh, it would have to be a petition that is sponsored by the largest mainstream american association.

The party line if I recall correctly was that 9/11 was actually a Zionist plot. If these links actually represent mainstream Islamic thought then that is a step forward.
What on earth is the "party line"? Can you provide any sort of justification or documentation of this? And while you're at it, can you explain how anyone can speak for the more than 1 billion Muslims worldwide?

I am sorry but the real victims of terrorism are the people who get blown up/shot/have their throats slit, and their surviving family members. But I will agree that the net result of the terrorist violence is a worsening of conditions for Muslims everywhere as people respond negatively to each terrorist attack.
(1) Not all Muslims are terrorists.
(2) Not all terrorists are Muslims.

May I just add: I am a victim of terrorism, too. So are you. So is every traveller who has to take off their shoes when going through a screener at an airport. So is every American whose fourth-amendment rights are violated when he/she is searched without probable cause for "security reasons". So is all of American/Western society when its freedoms are undermined as a knee-jerk reaction to short-sighted prejudices.

What on earth is the "party line"? Can you provide any sort of justification or documentation of this? And while you're at it, can you explain how anyone can speak for the more than 1 billion Muslims worldwide?

Some people don't understand that a group with no central leadership, a group that's in conflict with itself (Shia vs. Sunni), cannot have a party line (except perhaps scripture, but Christians should be careful about calling scripture a party line).

A group with central leadership (e.g. the Catholic Church, Hammas, Monaco) can have a party line.

A group with central leadership (e.g. the Catholic Church, Hammas, Monaco) can have a party line.
Yeah, you've gotta watch out for those Monegasques. I've heard they're ferocious at the craps table. :D

I do not disagree that there have been far too many incidents of passengers removed from flights based on unsubstantiated fears due most in part to the color of skin, ethnic-related clothing and/or last name. And I agree that this is clearly wrong.

However, what's at stake here is what is referred to as "permissive refusal." The best way to describe that is to first describe "mandatory refusal." Airlines are required, by law, to refuse passage to any person who refuses a search of their person or of the property they intend to carry or place aboard the aircraft. Permissive refusal allows pilots additional discretion for other risks to flight safety. The most common case is when a passenger refuses to comply with flight crew instructions such as turning off mobile devices, fastening seat belts, remaining seated, etc. The rationale for this somewhat ambiguous authority is as old as time itself and dates back to the days of seafaring captains whose authority was absolute. This is precisely why airline pilots are called captains even though technically, they are pilots in command. The principle is no different than it is for a ship's captain who is the supreme authority for everything that goes on aboard the ship.

Perhaps more training for airline crews that increases their awareness of certain cultural aspects (for example, Muslims are traditionally taught that it is disrespectful to directly look authority figures in the eye; and in the US, a person who avoids eye contact is an indication of deception) as well as other related behaviors that will empower crews to make better decisions. Hopefully, these incidents won't result in restricting or removing a captain's right to permissive refusal.