Trip Reports - AA F vs. BA F (trip report) BOS-LHR-TLV

I had the opportunity to compare AA F (BOS-LHR) with BA F (TLV-LHR) within the last month, and thought others might be interested in a trip report. I posted a report about a year ago on FT comparing my experience on the two airlines in business class, and was somewhat surprised at the outcome. I was surprised again this time as well…

Background:
The AA flight was upgraded, BA flight was an award ticket using AA miles. AA cabin was full, BA cabin was about 2/3 full (10/14).

Reservations:
Both were reserved through AA, so not much basis to compare. Past experience would suggest that AA’s phone service is more efficient in the US, but that is comparing the EXP line to the general line for BA, so perhaps an unfair comparison. Advantage: Tie.

Check-in:
Both fast, efficient, and friendly. Advantage: Tie.

Boarding:
AA: First and business board first. BA: entire plane boards at once.
[Note: several people posting below have indicated that this is unusual, not the rule on BA, though boarding process varies by location.] Advantage: AA

Pre-departure:
AA: Drink of choice offered quickly upon boarding. BA: drink of choice offered nearly 30 minutes after boarding. Advantage: AA

Amenities:
AA: same amenity kit as business. BA: upgraded kit, with more-or-less the same items as the AA kit, but slightly higher quality. AA: Bose QC-3 noise reducing headphones, BA: disposable non-noise-reducing headphones. Since I use the headphones, and don’t use the amenity kit, for me it is Advantage: AA.

Seat:
AA Flagship Suite vs. BA new F (plane had recently been upgraded, also had new Club World seats). I would give AA a slight edge; the AA seat seems slightly wider and more adjustable to me, and somewhat more private. I did prefer the upholstery on the BA seat, but that was a minor point, and the seats appeared less beaten up on BA. Relative to the equivalent business class seats on both airlines, I would say I preferred the AA seat because it was wider and feels less claustrophobic (significant differences), and because it lies completely flat (minor difference for me, because I have no trouble sleeping on the slightly tilted seat). Similarly, I preferred the BA seat for the first two reasons – the business class seat on BA is particularly narrow so the extra width and spaciousness were both nice. All that said, in both cases the differences are quite small, compared with the difference between coach (or WT+ on BA) and business class. I think you get at least 80% of the value going into business, and only an additional 20% or so going from business to first. Advantage: AA, by a small amount.

Wine:
Both had moderate quality wines, basically indistinguishable to me from the wines offered in their respective business classes. Non-vintage champagnes in both cases, perhaps the wines were slightly upgraded but not significantly so. I would guess it would be the difference between wines that retail for $15-20 vs. wines retailing for $25-30. The champagne on the BA flight was overly oxidized, but I will assume that was the bottle I got. Advantage: Tie.

Meal:
Both meals were fine, but the food on BA was, on average slightly better. Same number of courses; both meals would be acceptable but not something you would seek out in a restaurant on the ground. An individual bottle of water offered after meal on AA, not on BA (though BA does offer it in Club). Advantage: BA, by a small amount.

On-board service:
Here is where I was most surprised. The BA service was awful, worse than any AA flight I have had in a premium class (international J, international F, domestic F) in recent memory. As noted above, the plane had almost pulled away from the gate before a pre-departure drink was offered (I boarded at least a half hour earlier), no food or drink was offered until 40 minutes after take-off, and after the meal service there was not a single drink refill offered. I went and found the flight attendant to get a drink, then waited to see whether a refill would be offered (this was about midway through the 5 hour flight). None ever was, in 2 and a half hours, and this was a daytime flight. The F seats on BA, similarly to AA, allow a second person to sit across for meals. I asked whether my wife, who was in Club, could take her meal there, and was told flat-out “no way”. Given that I “paid” for the F seat she would be using (using miles), and again “paid” for her meal in Club (we were not asking for the F meal for her), and that the F cabin was nearly half empty, this seemed extremely unaccommodating. AA service, as others here have often noted, is extremely variable and not particularly different between first and business. On this flight it was fine, and much better than BA. Advantage: AA.

Overall:
Overall, if both flights were the same price, same schedule, and same mileage accumulation, I would pick AA. The main difference was the poor quality of the on-board service on BA (much worse than any AA service I have had in years). It seems to me that the service is part of what you are paying for at these prices (either in $$$ or miles), and it was just plain bad on BA.

(As a side note, I had two flights between the US and Tokyo earlier this year in ANA Business Class; everything about the experience, except the fact that the seat doesn’t go completely flat, was vastly superior to both AA F and BA F.)

I had the opportunity to compare AA F (BOS-LHR) with BA F (TLV-LHR) within the last month, and thought others might be interested in a trip report.Excellent and very informative report. Thanks! ^

THanks for this comparison! Very interesting, as are the other threads on this topic. It's interesting to see how wildly the service on both carriers varies from flight to flight- and what a big difference it makes. I cashed in miles to fly F on the 777 to Buenos Aires last year, and even though it was the "same" plane on the LAX-MIA flight as the MIA-EZE leg, the service was so superior going LAX-MIA that it almost seemed like a completely different airline! On the second flight, the flight attendant didn't even know that there was a tape deck in the seat and when I asked for the video list, she told me they didn't have one- which I only knew was incorrect because the awesome FA on the first flight had shown me how to work it! My experience overall was that the design of the AA first seat on the 777 was awesome, and lying comfortably flat gave me the best sleep I've ever had on a place, the food, with the exception of the dessert, was still awful (although there was lots of it), and the service varied. I was very curious the whole time how it would have compared to similar offerings on other carriers, so I love reading threads like this!

Interesting and thorough comparison. Thanks!

My premium classes experiences with BA historically have been very good. To be fair, it has been 5 years since my last BA premium flight, so things may have changed.

What I think is most telling is your description at the bottom about the ANA flights...IME, the East & SE Asian carriers have EXCELLENT service. This goes for CX, SQ, Thai, JL, etc. For me, the superior service always helped me "overlook" any of the equipment deficiencies.

I will give you a specific example. I booked two biz class award tickets using AA miles 6 years ago for my parents to meet me in India. I routed them SJC-NRT on AA (still fuming that this routed was discontinued :mad:), NRT-BKK on JL. I purchased a separate economy ticket for the final leg BKK-MAA on Thai.

It was amazing -- my parents favorite leg was the BKK-MAA segment in COACH. They said the service was amazing - very attentive and customer-focused. They also appreciated the FA outfits. I asked them about the much longer legs in Biz - they said great on the seats (especially for getting some zzz's), but that the AA FAs did not come even close to the service orientation. They liked JL, but I think the food was not familiar enough for them to appreciate (I think the intra-Asia menus are quite different from the TransPac menus).

Anyhow, to the OP, thanks for the comparison. Perhaps AA is turning its game around...or perhaps the strain on BA's margins are starting to show.:eek:

I had a chance to sample F in AA from DFW to FRA a few weeks back. I couldn't believe that my champagne glasslet was refilled three times (that's refills) before take-off. The remainder of the flight was a pleasure (except the in-flight entertainment system).

Thanks for the head-to-head comparison.

I couldn't believe that my champagne glasslet was refilled three times (that's refills) before take-off.
Wow, would love to see that crew on NYE! :p

Excellent report and thanks for your perspectives. I guess we wouldn't know each other if we bumped into each other, but we basically did the same trip, stayed at the same hotels, except we took BA in F al the way, and returned from Cairo in BA on 747 with newer on demand video. So, I will add my comments with the caveat that I haven't been in AA int'l F in a few years.

Check-in:
Both fast, efficient, and friendly. Advantage: Tie.

Boarding:
AA: First and business board first. BA: entire plane boards at once. Advantage: AA

NL: BA does board business and first separately. In BOS, they call business and first to board first. In LHR, they have separate lines/queues for Biz/1st.

Pre-departure:
AA: Drink of choice offered quickly upon boarding. BA: drink of choice offered nearly 30 minutes after boarding. Advantage: AA

NL: That's unusual for me: I find drinks and amenity kits are generally offered right away.

Amenities:
AA: same amenity kit as business. BA: upgraded kit, with more-or-less the same items as the AA kit, but slightly higher quality. AA: Bose QC-3 noise reducing headphones, BA: disposable non-noise-reducing headphones. Since I use the headphones, and don’t use the amenity kit, for me it is Advantage: AA.

NL: I agree the AA BOse headphones are a nice advantage. The AA kit has nicer items, but you are ignoring many other components, such as: BA pajamas; BA socks (actually worth taking home); BA eyeshades (extra comfortable, among the most comfortable); BA slippers; BA mattress pad; BA duvet w/crisp "hotel sheet" cover(nice); BA pillow in crisp "hotel sheet" pillow case; BA lotions in bathroom; BA cloth face towels in bathroom versus paper towels.

Seat:
AA Flagship Suite vs. BA new F (plane had recently been upgraded, also had new Club World seats). I would give AA a slight edge; the AA seat seems slightly wider and more adjustable to me, and somewhat more private. I did prefer the upholstery on the BA seat, but that was a minor point, and the seats appeared less beaten up on BA. Relative to the equivalent business class seats on both airlines, I would say I preferred the AA seat because it was wider and feels less claustrophobic (significant differences), and because it lies completely flat (minor difference for me, because I have no trouble sleeping on the slightly tilted seat). Similarly, I preferred the BA seat for the first two reasons – the business class seat on BA is particularly narrow so the extra width and spaciousness were both nice. All that said, in both cases the differences are quite small, compared with the difference between coach (or WT+ on BA) and business class. I think you get at least 80% of the value going into business, and only an additional 20% or so going from business to first. Advantage: AA, by a small amount.

NL: I am confused by what you are saying as you mix business and first class comparisons, but I find the seats to be comparable.

Wine:
Both had moderate quality wines, basically indistinguishable to me from the wines offered in their respective business classes. Non-vintage champagnes in both cases, perhaps the wines were slightly upgraded but not significantly so. I would guess it would be the difference between wines that retail for $15-20 vs. wines retailing for $25-30. The champagne on the BA flight was overly oxidized, but I will assume that was the bottle I got. Advantage: Tie.

NL: BA's wines are much better than AA's. AA's first class wines are business calss wines (indeed they are the same). BA's are first class wines. I am not saying they are the best in the air, but they are better than $25-30 bottles. Selections include Puligny Montrachet and Chateau Talbot, for example. The champagne, while currently a bone of contention on the BA board (Cattier), is BA's worst selection in years. More recently, the champagne was Bolinger Grand Annee, which is a terrific champagne. You also fail to mention that BA serves a nice desert wine. BUT YOU NEED TO CHANGE THE HEADING TO INCLUDE SPIRITS, and in that area, the difference is huge, including JW Blue, XO Cognac, and 20 year old port. Did I say huge.:eek:

Meal:
Both meals were fine, but the food on BA was, on average slightly better. Same number of courses; both meals would be acceptable but not something you would seek out in a restaurant on the ground. An individual bottle of water offered after meal on AA, not on BA (though BA does offer it in Club). Advantage: BA, by a small amount.

NL: IMO, BA's food has been declining, but the quantity, quality, and selection is generally superior. No matter where I have sat I have NEVER not had my choice of entree on BA. I am sure it's conceivable that they run out, but they never have for me. The meal consist of an appetizer, soup (usually exceptional), entree, hot desert, cheese plate, fruit, and numerous "snacks, which are basically meals.

On-board service:
Here is where I was most surprised. The BA service was awful, worse than any AA flight I have had in a premium class (international J, international F, domestic F) in recent memory. As noted above, the plane had almost pulled away from the gate before a pre-departure drink was offered (I boarded at least a half hour earlier), no food or drink was offered until 40 minutes after take-off, and after the meal service there was not a single drink refill offered. I went and found the flight attendant to get a drink, then waited to see whether a refill would be offered (this was about midway through the 5 hour flight). None ever was, in 2 and a half hours, and this was a daytime flight. The F seats on BA, similarly to AA, allow a second person to sit across for meals. I asked whether my wife, who was in Club, could take her meal there, and was told flat-out “no way”. Given that I “paid” for the F seat she would be using (using miles), and again “paid” for her meal in Club (we were not asking for the F meal for her), and that the F cabin was nearly half empty, this seemed extremely unaccommodating. AA service, as others here have often noted, is extremely variable and not particularly different between first and business. On this flight it was fine, and much better than BA. Advantage: AA.

NL: I think BA's on-board F service has been declining, but I usually find it to be pretty good.


Overall:
Overall, if both flights were the same price, same schedule, and same mileage accumulation, I would pick AA. The main difference was the poor quality of the on-board service on BA (much worse than any AA service I have had in years). It seems to me that the service is part of what you are paying for at these prices (either in $$$ or miles), and it was just plain bad on BA.

NL: You have also left out lounges and airport experience. In BOS, BA's first class lounge and pre-departure dining exceeds anything AA offers in the AC. But the big difference is in London. The Concorde Room offers a truly exceptional ambiance, with private cabanas, genuinely premium wines, champagne and spirits (including JW Blue), very good food in a private dining room, and business and first class customers are entitled to a free 15 minute spa treatment.

My perspectives are based on more than 10 BA F segments this year, including tans-atlantic, middle east, and far east flights. Overall, I give BA a sizable edge, based on the quality of the extras I mentioned above, but I feel BA is has slipped significantly, and the difference is declining, IMO. However, if one doesn't drink JW Blue, or value some of these extras, or fly thru LHR, then I can see the delta would be smaller. Overall, I think any narrowing of the comparison has more to do with BA slipping than AA improving

However, I totally agree you in that I greatly prefer CX and JL, with the edge to JL as I also think CX is slipping.

Great report Mike. Ive been wanting to try BA F, I may think twice. Thanks!

Great report Mike. Ive been wanting to try BA F, I may think twice. Thanks!

+1 Mike. Thanks. Great report

NL: BA does board business and first separately. In BOS, they call business and first to board first. In LHR, they have separate lines/queues for Biz/1st.

In TLV for my flight, BA boarded the entire plane at once (I believe they used the term "general boarding").

NL: I agree the AA BOse headphones are a nice advantage. The AA kit has nicer items, but you are ignoring many other components, such as: BA pajamas; BA socks (actually worth taking home); BA eyeshades (extra comfortable, among the most comfortable); BA slippers; BA mattress pad; BA duvet w/crisp "hotel sheet" cover(nice); BA pillow in crisp "hotel sheet" pillow case; BA lotions in bathroom; BA cloth face towels in bathroom versus paper towels.

AA offers most of these: socks, eyeshades, duvet, comparable pillow. There were no cloth towels in the bathroom on my BA flight. AA doesn't offer slippers or a mattress pad though, as you point out.

NL: BA's wines are much better than AA's. AA's first class wines are business calss wines (indeed they are the same). BA's are first class wines. I am not saying they are the best in the air, but they are better than $25-30 bottles. Selections include Puligny Montrachet and Chateau Talbot, for example. The champagne, while currently a bone of contention on the BA board (Cattier), is BA's worst selection in years. More recently, the champagne was Bolinger Grand Annee, which is a terrific champagne. You also fail to mention that BA serves a nice desert wine. BUT YOU NEED TO CHANGE THE HEADING TO INCLUDE SPIRITS, and in that area, the difference is huge, including JW Blue, XO Cognac, and 20 year old port. Did I say huge.:eek:

AA does offer upgraded wines in First vs. Business, but the difference is not large. I was not impressed with the wines on my BA flight, and I tried several of them. The champagne was particularly bad, but I think it may have been a bad bottle.

NL: IMO, BA's food has been declining, but the quantity, quality, and selection is generally superior. No matter where I have sat I have NEVER not had my choice of entree on BA. I am sure it's conceivable that they run out, but they never have for me. The meal consist of an appetizer, soup (usually exceptional), entree, hot desert, cheese plate, fruit, and numerous "snacks, which are basically meals.

I was offered choice of soup *or* appetizer (not both), and cheese plate *or* dessert (not both). The snack described on the menu was not offered (to me or to anyone else).

NL: You have also left out lounges and airport experience. In BOS, BA's first class lounge and pre-departure dining exceeds anything AA offers in the AC. But the big difference is in London. The Concorde Room offers a truly exceptional ambiance, with private cabanas, genuinely premium wines, champagne and spirits (including JW Blue), very good food in a private dining room, and business and first class customers are entitled to a free 15 minute spa treatment.

You are right that BAs lounges are better (though not in TLV; the lounge there in fact is awful, though it is a 3rd party lounge not run by BA). Given that I try to spend as little time in the lounge as possible (avoid checking in very early) and hours on the plane, for me this is not a large factor and would not change the conclusion.

As a fairly frequent BA F flyer - maybe 20 segments per year, including tonite LHR-JFK.

1. Boarding on the BA flights I have been on in LHR has a separate FastTrack for F, J and BA Elites. It is usually a completely separate line. It is the same at JFK and LAX. The exception I believe is if the flight is booked very lightly, however perhaps TLV is different as I have found airlines typically have different procedures to/from TLV.

2. Pre flight drink. The standard BA procedure is you are walked from the entry door to your seat. I would say in my experience and pretty much without exception, right away they take my coat and drink order. A nice plus on BA is they will serve you any drinks you want - wines, hard liquor. My experience is the only alcohol AA will serve on the ground for a preflight is the champagne/sparkling wine.

3. Dining. I would say the BA menu varies in terms of what is attractive, however, they have always been willing to serve anytime during the flight and generally make a point to order whatever you want and dine on demand. I always order a low-cal special meal (not sure what AA offers these days but know its not much w specials) and they have always asked me if I would prefer something from the main menu. In a couple instance I have had two appetizers - the same, as I liked it, and on the way over on this trip, they combined two entrees for my GF that she liked. Both flights were 12/14.

4. Upgrading your wife during flight: BA policy is to generally allow this outside of meal times, so they should have allowed your wife to join you before or after the meal.

It sounds like maybe you got a bad crew as you refer to? Or I would just say your report is pretty inaccurate in my experience.

I do think BA has to improve the T5 transit experience needs to be better for premium passengers when busy.

Hi Mike, thanks for the report, a very interesting read and comparison. It does sound like you had a less than typical service on your BA flight I must add which is very unfortunate. :rolleyes:

Relative to the equivalent business class seats on both airlines, I would say I preferred the AA seat because it was wider and feels less claustrophobic (significant differences), and because it lies completely flat (minor difference for me, because I have no trouble sleeping on the slightly tilted seat).

Did I read this right? Are you saying that the BA First seat does not lie fully flat? I'm not sure that this is true to be honest. The BA business class seat certainly does in both the old and new configuration. As I understand it the new AA business class seat does not lie flat.

Did I read this right? Are you saying that the BA First seat does not lie fully flat? I'm not sure that this is true to be honest. The BA business class seat certainly does in both the old and new configuration. As I understand it the new AA business class seat does not lie flat.

Sorry, my language was confusing. I was comparing the AA F seat to the AA business class seat. The BA First and BA Club seats both go fully flat, and as you correctly describe it, the AA Business seat does not.

1. Boarding on the BA flights I have been on in LHR has a separate FastTrack for F, J and BA Elites. It is usually a completely separate line. It is the same at JFK and LAX. The exception I believe is if the flight is booked very lightly, however perhaps TLV is different as I have found airlines typically have different procedures to/from TLV.

The flight was full in WT and WT+, nearly full in Club, and part empty in First. There was no separate boarding for any class; the only pre-boarding was for families with children.

2. Pre flight drink. The standard BA procedure is you are walked from the entry door to your seat. I would say in my experience and pretty much without exception, right away they take my coat and drink order. A nice plus on BA is they will serve you any drinks you want - wines, hard liquor. My experience is the only alcohol AA will serve on the ground for a preflight is the champagne/sparkling wine.

I was indeed walked to the seat, and my jacket was taken. No drink order for 30 minutes after that. AA serves you any drink you want on international F flights (and occasionally in domestic F as well, but very inconsistently).

4. Upgrading your wife during flight: BA policy is to generally allow this outside of meal times, so they should have allowed your wife to join you before or after the meal.

I was not looking to upgrade my wife, which would suggest that she would take an empty seat. I was just looking to have her use the part of my seat which allowed for her to take her meal with me, and be served the meal she was entitled to from Club. This seems entirely different from asking for an upgrade, which indeed would have been inappropriate. If the cabin had been full, maybe I could see why they might not want to have one more person being served by the same staff (though there is no reason the Club staff could not serve her in that seat), but given that it was 1/3 empty, one would have thought they could be more accommodating. To be fair, I don't know what AA would have done in a similar situation, but my experience is that the staff is given more authority to decide how to handle the customer in these types of situations (which can cut in either direction depending on who you get).

It sounds like maybe you got a bad crew as you refer to? Or I would just say your report is pretty inaccurate in my experience.

I have no doubt I got a bad crew. That happens on AA too. This crew, though, was worse than any I have had on any AA flight in any premium cabin, and I have had hundreds of these flights over the past 2-3 years.

I suspect you may have been unlucky with crew.

As for drinks order prior to take off, I thought airlines were only allowed to serve OJ, water and champagne? Maybe I am wrong.

I would say that I suspect the food, boarding, etc would have been improved had your F flight been LHR-TLV with BA and not the return leg.

I suspect you may have been unlucky with crew.

As for drinks order prior to take off, I thought airlines were only allowed to serve OJ, water and champagne? Maybe I am wrong.

It is not true that they are only allowed to serve OJ, water and champagne, at least in the US. Delta offers your choice of any drink to every F customer, as an example. I was offered my choice of drink, it's just that it wasn't offered for 30 minutes or so after boarding.

I was offered my choice of drink, it's just that it wasn't offered for 30 minutes or so after boarding.
I'd agree - 30 minutes after boarding is not acceptable when travelling First :(

IIRC the BA cabin service manual allows passengers from other cabins to visit F outside of the meal service (although I wonder how this is enforced when technically you can 'dine-on-demand') in order to stop them getting in the way...

Boarding:
AA: First and business board first. BA: entire plane boards at once. Advantage: AA

Pre-departure:
AA: Drink of choice offered quickly upon boarding. BA: drink of choice offered nearly 30 minutes after boarding. Advantage: AA

Seat:
AA Flagship Suite vs. BA new F (plane had recently been upgraded, also had new Club World seats).

Wine:
Both had moderate quality wines, basically indistinguishable to me from the wines offered in their respective business classes. Non-vintage champagnes in both cases, perhaps the wines were slightly upgraded but not significantly so. I would guess it would be the difference between wines that retail for $15-20 vs. wines retailing for $25-30. The champagne on the BA flight was overly oxidized, but I will assume that was the bottle I got. Advantage: Tie.

On-board service:
Here is where I was most surprised. The BA service was awful, worse than any AA flight I have had in a premium class (international J, international F, domestic F) in recent memory. As noted above, the plane had almost pulled away from the gate before a pre-departure drink was offered (I boarded at least a half hour earlier), no food or drink was offered until 40 minutes after take-off, and after the meal service there was not a single drink refill offered. I went and found the flight attendant to get a drink, then waited to see whether a refill would be offered (this was about midway through the 5 hour flight). None ever was, in 2 and a half hours, and this was a daytime flight. The F seats on BA, similarly to AA, allow a second person to sit across for meals. I asked whether my wife, who was in Club, could take her meal there, and was told flat-out “no way”. Given that I “paid” for the F seat she would be using (using miles), and again “paid” for her meal in Club (we were not asking for the F meal for her), and that the F cabin was nearly half empty, this seemed extremely unaccommodating. AA service, as others here have often noted, is extremely variable and not particularly different between first and business. On this flight it was fine, and much better than BA. Advantage: AA.


I just thought I'd highlight these points as they are far from my experience on BA in F over the last few years.

-Every time I've flown in F or J (with the exception of airports where security occurs at the gate: SIN, DXB come to mind) there has been a FastTrack lane for F and J. There was a time at Terminal 4 LHR where if less than a certain amount of passengers were on the flight they'd not have the lane. I've been on some lightly loaded flights (I'd guesstimate less than 200 pax) and still always had the priority boarding lane.

-Pre-departure service in F is very consistent on BA, even if the in-air service isn't. Without fail I'm offered drinks, PJs, amenity kit, newspaper and macademia nuts.

-The F seat on BA isn't new. Only Club World got a new incarnation, although you'll get AVOD with the new CW seats installed. AFAIK there are no aircraft with the small PTVs that have the new J seats.

-The BA wines in F are a real step up from their J counterparts, don't know about AA F as I've not flown it internationally but I've seen the winelists and they look inferior. As a comparison I believe AA intl. F serves Pommery NV which BA serve in Club Europe! The Cattier Clos du Moulin might be an NV but I rather like it to be honest, BA have served worse bubbly in F, but then much better too!

-Inviting a person from another cabin is at the discretion of the crew and is really for outside meal times. I asked over on the BA forum as my wife and I were flying in F and my mother was thinking of joining us but flying in J
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/799565-guests-first-can-guest-have-their-meal-us.html

A more standard BA First experience ex-LHR is something like this:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/140131/

The flight was full in WT and WT+, nearly full in Club, and part empty in First. There was no separate boarding for any class; the only pre-boarding was for families with children.

TLV is a boarding exception. BA universally boards business and first class first, and generally has a separate roped off lane for C/F.


I was indeed walked to the seat, and my jacket was taken. No drink order for 30 minutes after that. AA serves you any drink you want on international F flights (and occasionally in domestic F as well, but very inconsistently).

I have never had this experience, so this was an outlier. 100% walked to seat, and from there the service starts with coat, amenity kit, PJs, drink. Also, AA won't serve their premium champagne while on the ground in the US pre-departure, which I find cheap and offensive. BA will serve whatever it has to offer (Krug, Bollinger, Cattier): the whole bar is available, and it a a far superior bar to boo.


I have no doubt I got a bad crew. That happens on AA too. This crew, though, was worse than any I have had on any AA flight in any premium cabin, and I have had hundreds of these flights over the past 2-3 years.

Sounds like it. I've have bad crews, too, including a very inexperienced crew from BOS-LHR in November. But, generally, I find the BA crew very attentive in first, especially the first class purser. BTW, I have never seen a BA F bathroom that did not have disposable cloth hand towels in the pull down bin, replacing paper towels in the other cabins.

It sounds like the BA experience overall was an outlier in several respects (boarding, pre-departure service, at a minimum). That said, there is something to be said for a consistent product, and if BA is unable to provide it that is a negative. AA has a similar problem, so I'm not sure which airline would be worse in this respect. All I can comment on is my experience, which I stand by as I described it above.

It sounds like the BA experience overall was an outlier in several respects (boarding, pre-departure service, at a minimum). That said, there is something to be said for a consistent product, and if BA is unable to provide it that is a negative. AA has a similar problem, so I'm not sure which airline would be worse in this respect. All I can comment on is my experience, which I stand by as I described it above.

IMHO your BA experience is significantly outside the norm, in terms of boarding, pre-departure drink and general service. Having done 5 million miles on AA I can tell you there is a much bigger variance on AA, more typically on the downside and I would say particularly on long haul. In the future, there is an upside to resolve any issues on a BA flight. Ask to see the CSD. Unfortunately on AA there is no supervisor per say who oversees the onboard service and execution. The purser is merely there to do paperwork. I do want to say AA has some excellent FAs too but I get the feel many times its like a bunch of independent contractors on each flight doing pretty much whatever they want (good or bad) whereas on BA, LH, CX, SQ I get the sense there is much more teamwork.

IMHO your BA experience is significantly outside the norm, in terms of boarding, pre-departure drink and general service. Having done 5 million miles on AA I can tell you there is a much bigger variance on AA, more typically on the downside and I would say particularly on long haul. In the future, there is an upside to resolve any issues on a BA flight. Ask to see the CSD. Unfortunately on AA there is no supervisor per say who oversees the onboard service and execution. The purser is merely there to do paperwork. I do want to say AA has some excellent FAs too but I get the feel many times its like a bunch of independent contractors on each flight doing pretty much whatever they want (good or bad) whereas on BA, LH, CX, SQ I get the sense there is much more teamwork.

Honestly, on this flight the only teamwork I saw was a concerted effort by the crew to stay out of view of passengers. For the majority of the flight they were in the galley chatting. This also happens on AA, but usually on a long flight they will take an occasional break and at least offer drink refills. I had to go and interrupt them to get a drink once, and didn't see anyone again for the remaining 2.5 hours of the flight (until we were in final approach when they came around to return coats and collect glasses).

The other point here is that there was no single incident that would have risen to the level that would trigger a call to a supervisor. It was the overall experience, when everything was taken together, that was so bad.

I had to go and interrupt them to get a drink once, and didn't see anyone again for the remaining 2.5 hours of the flight (until we were in final approach when they came around to return coats and collect glasses).

:eek: Must be really disappointing to have such a bad crew.

Firstly MikeBOS I am really sorry to hear that you received such poor service on your flight from TLV.
As a CSD with BA I was shocked to read about the failings of the crew on your flight.
I have to disagree with you regarding not calling the supervisor, in my opinion that is exactly what you should have done how else are we going to manage these crew members performance and make you our customer happy.
I cannot understand why you had to wait so long for a pre takeoff drink, 30 minutes is unheard off and 5 minutes would be unacceptable in my opinion.
Departure from TLV is always rushed as the crew only arrive at the airport 60 minutes before departure and as you know getting through security etc takes forever.
Boarding is usually 30 minutes before departure in TLV (40 minutes elsewhere) were you first to board? In First there are 3 dedicated crewmembers to look after 14 passengers, what were the crew doing while you sat there for 30 minutes?
As a CSD our role is to ensure that all passengers are safe and happy and our “office” is at the front of First cabin, did you see the CSD and if so did you speak to them?
I know others will have read your report and thought that if this is the standard of BA First then they would travel with another carrier, thank you to all of you that have testified that this is not true. I can assure you all that this is not what you will receive when travelling with BA.
I am not going to compare BA to AA as I know nothing of their service and it wouldn’t be professional to say anything.

IMHO your BA experience is significantly outside the norm, in terms of boarding, pre-departure drink and general service.

Does seem to have been a bad flight although judgement perhaps clouded by the fact that he was refused the request to have his wife join him for dinner? (refused quite rightly IMO).
I also think it unfair to compare an F product on two completely different routes.If they had both been on the BOS-LHR route with similar departure times then I could accept the opinions more seriously,so for me it was a waste of time comparing.
Hope the OP has a better F flight next time with BA........they do have an excellent product and 99% of the time get it right. ^

Firstly MikeBOS I am really sorry to hear that you received such poor service on your flight from TLV.
As a CSD with BA I was shocked to read about the failings of the crew on your flight.
I have to disagree with you regarding not calling the supervisor, in my opinion that is exactly what you should have done how else are we going to manage these crew members performance and make you our customer happy.
I cannot understand why you had to wait so long for a pre takeoff drink, 30 minutes is unheard off and 5 minutes would be unacceptable in my opinion.
Departure from TLV is always rushed as the crew only arrive at the airport 60 minutes before departure and as you know getting through security etc takes forever.
Boarding is usually 30 minutes before departure in TLV (40 minutes elsewhere) were you first to board? In First there are 3 dedicated crewmembers to look after 14 passengers, what were the crew doing while you sat there for 30 minutes?
As a CSD our role is to ensure that all passengers are safe and happy and our “office” is at the front of First cabin, did you see the CSD and if so did you speak to them?
I know others will have read your report and thought that if this is the standard of BA First then they would travel with another carrier, thank you to all of you that have testified that this is not true. I can assure you all that this is not what you will receive when travelling with BA.
I am not going to compare BA to AA as I know nothing of their service and it wouldn’t be professional to say anything.

Thanks for your comments. During much of the 30 minutes, all 3 crew members were in an extended discussion with one passenger about her connection in London; she wanted to get to Harrods in the terminal somehow and they were trying to figure out how she could do it. Eventually it was resolved (I wasn't paying attention to the details) but it seems like it shouldn't have taken all three of them for such a long time, especially given that there was no particular crisis involved for the passenger. I was indeed one of the first to board, and the drinks were finally served a few minutes before the plane pushed back. Worse than this was the fact that the crew disappeared after the meal, and only reappeared as we were on final approach. For 2 1/2 hours nobody was in the cabin, and they never offered the second meal/snack that was on the menu. On an overnight flight this might be OK, but not on a daytime flight.

I agree this is unacceptable, the TLV LHR route is the shortest route that we have First cabin on and there is only one meal service scheduled. However in First you can eat whatever you like whenever you like. The crew should have been checking if any customer needed anything. We would normally do this by walking through the cabin every 20-30 minutes. We do not necessarily speak to ever customer as they might be watching a video but we look for eye contact and gestures. If you wanted something you only have to ask. Here is the January menu for the flight that you took and as you see there is no snack service.


Welcome on board

Dining in First offers you the ultimate in quality, style
and flexibility—a combination of the best seasonal food,
skillfully prepared and elegantly presented.
Just let your crew member know when you are ready
to dine and your meal will be served at a time to suit you.
For British Airways nothing is too much trouble.

Dinner

Starters
Pineapple carpaccio with crab and prawn salad
International meze plate of roast aubergine, carrot,
baba ghanoush, tabouleh salad, olive and Feta salad
* Spicy tomato and fennel soup
Fresh salad leaves with your choice of balsamic vinaigrette
or Roquefort dressing

FOR A LIMITED PERIOD WE ALSO HAVE ‘LIQUID GOLD’—OLIO EXTRA VERGINE
DI OLIVA FROM CASTELLO MONTE VIBIANO, A VERY SPECIAL OLIVE OIL
FROM HAND-PICKED OLIVES, PRESSED AT LOW TEMPERATURE AND BOTTLED
WITHIN SIX HOURS.

Main
Beef tenderloin in sauce with marinated
portobello mushrooms and mashed potatoes
Grilled lamb chops and lamb kofta with raisin sauce
and vegetable couscous
* Chicken and leek pie with seasonal vegetables
Salad of fresh salmon marinated in lemon olive oil
and topped with fresh herbs

Dessert
Mediterranean nut cake with ice cream
Lemon tart with crème anglaise

Cheese Plate A selection of cheese
A basket of fresh fruit
Snacks
Warm farina bread with grilled steak and horseradish sauce
Fresh pasta with your choice of roast garlic
or sun-dried tomato sauce
A selection of biscuits
A selection of cheese and fruit

Beverages We offer you a selection of the following:
Twinings® Teas – Traditional English Breakfast,
Darjeeling, Earl Grey or Pure Green
Twinings® Fruit and Herb Infusions –
Pure Camomile, Pure Peppermint, Lemon and Ginger
or Blackcurrant, Ginseng and Vanilla
Coffee – Freshly roasted and ground, decaffeinated,
espresso or cappuccino
Chocolates

Interesting...this is an entirely different menu from the one I was offered (the flight was in early January). The main course I had was sea bream (don't see it on your menu).

On the second meal, I may have assumed what was labeled "Snacks" would be offered at some point during the flight; if it is only available on request, the menu should probably make that clearer. I did not save the menu so unfortunately can't clarify beyond that.

Seems like you had Decembers menu.

Welcome on board
Dining in First offers you the ultimate in quality, style
and flexibility—a combination of the best seasonal food,
skillfully prepared and elegantly presented.
Just let your crew member know when you are ready
to dine and your meal will be served at a time to suit you.
For British Airways nothing is too much trouble.

* “Well Being in the Air” selection–please refer to High Life for details.
For allergen information, please ask your crew for more details.

Dinner

Starters
Trio of smoked fish with crème fraîche
Meze plate – grilled asparagus, Feta, orange
and black olive salad served with flat leaf parsley,
slow-roasted Provençale tomatoes and fennel
Harira vegetable and chick-pea soup
Fresh salad leaves with your choice of balsamic olive oil
or red pepper cream dressing
FOR A LIMITED PERIOD WE ALSO HAVE ‘LIQUID GOLD’—OLIO EXTRA VERGINE
DI OLIVA FROM CASTELLO MONTE VIBIANO, A VERY SPECIAL OLIVE OIL
FROM HAND-PICKED OLIVES, PRESSED AT LOW TEMPERATURE AND BOTTLED
WITHIN SIX HOURS.
Main
Roast breast of duck with a morello cherry
and balsamic sauce
Seabream with dill sauce, asparagus and lemon rice
Shepherd’s pie with seasonal vegetables
Grilled chicken on minted couscous salad
Dessert
Coconut and lemon grass crème brûlée
Apple and mixed berry crumble with ice cream

Cheese Plate A selection of cheese
A basket of fresh fruit
Snacks Grilled chicken, Swiss and tomatoes
on a warm farina roll
Sweet potato ravioli with your choice of
roast pepper or Pecorino sauce
A selection of biscuits
A selection of cheese and fruit
Beverages We offer you a selection of the following:
Twinings® Teas – Traditional English Breakfast,
Darjeeling, Earl Grey or Pure Green
Twinings® Fruit and Herb Infusions –
Pure Camomile, Pure Peppermint, Lemon and Ginger
or Blackcurrant, Ginseng and Vanilla
Coffee – Freshly roasted and ground, decaffeinated,
espresso or cappuccino
Chocolates

As for drinks order prior to take off, I thought airlines were only allowed to serve OJ, water and champagne? Maybe I am wrong.

Some local and national laws affect what can be served while the plane is on the ground (i.e. UA cannot offer champagne or other alcohol pre-departure on KWI-IAD) but there is no blanket rule for all airlines.

There is a difference in that some airlines will serve pre-departure drinks from glass while others will use only plastic.

Does seem to have been a bad flight although judgement perhaps clouded by the fact that he was refused the request to have his wife join him for dinner? (refused quite rightly IMO).
I also think it unfair to compare an F product on two completely different routes.If they had both been on the BOS-LHR route with similar departure times then I could accept the opinions more seriously,so for me it was a waste of time comparing.
Hope the OP has a better F flight next time with BA........they do have an excellent product and 99% of the time get it right. ^

You bring up a great point. A friend of mine who was CEO of a couple significant cruise lines told me when he used to call up customers who had written him complaint letters, there was almost without exception one event that then colored virtually their entire experience. It worked virtually the same with people who wrote him complimentary letters. I believe that this was the idea back when BA had the "Putting People First" program or whatever it was called. It was far more profitable to get the customer in the right frame of mind than have to worry about service recover later.

OP should write a personal letter to WW; not sure if he reads them, but perhaps and hopefully he looks at his mail.

Or I would just say your report is pretty inaccurate in my experience.



That's just it. He isn't reporting on your experience.
He's reporting on HIS experience.

Thanks, Mike! I found it to be very interesting. I myself have never really been "wowed" by BA.

BA F is really nothing special once you've flown the likes of CX, NH, JL, or SQ.

BTW, that seat has to GO. They've been there since 1995 or so and are very much past their prime at nearly 14 years old.

That's just it. He isn't reporting on your experience.
He's reporting on HIS experience.

Thanks, Mike! I found it to be very interesting. I myself have never really been "wowed" by BA.

BA F is really nothing special once you've flown the likes of CX, NH, JL, or SQ.

BTW, that seat has to GO. They've been there since 1995 or so and are very much past their prime at nearly 14 years old.

My point was there were some things that were far, far from the norm - it sounds like perhaps a combination of ex-TLV and a bad crew. I think most of us who have flown BA for awhile will say there has been a decline. You are right about the seats getting creaky. I still like the more upscale look and materials than AA F seats and at least on the 744s 1AK for privacy. Having done over 5 million miles on AA and having flown both airlines for the better part of 20 years, I don't really have a problem piping in with an opinion. I hope OP gives BA another shot. I also wish AA would invest a bit more in its soft product and cabin management and get competitive in terms of premium service.

I used to fly AA F fairly frequently LHR-NYC (although not at all since I relocated to Tokyo). By comparison with any of the other airlines with which I have flown in F (NH, TG, SQ, LH, AF), it is a dismal excuse for a first class service. The only saving grace is the seat.

The Flagship lounge at LHR was a joke; in flight, the food was basically the same as J, wines too. The 8mm video cassette player was a joke (although I understand they now have a video-on-demand system). Ground service was just OK.

As far as I'm concerned, the product really only exists for upgrades/frequent flyer redemption and for heavily discounted negotiated fares (of which AA do a huge amount, particularly on the transatlantic routes).

How many miles do you need for a C and F flight on AA? If I am correct you can also fly on El Al using AA miles.

I also think it unfair to compare an F product on two completely different routes.If they had both been on the BOS-LHR route with similar departure times then I could accept the opinions more seriously,so for me it was a waste of time comparing.

These were the flights I flew, so that was the basis for my comparison. That said, I did think about whether it would be useful to others before posting, and decided it would, because there were more similarities to the flights than differences:

- Both about 5-6 hours in the air.
- Both depart late afternoon.
- Both terminate at Heathrow.

I agree it is unfair to compare the boarding if that will vary by departure city (though I have not seen it vary on AA the way it does on BA). Food quality might also be different depending on where catering is loaded, and number of meals could be different. Most of the other points in the comparison should be valid.

As an avid trip report writer I am distrubed that the OP has been getting this much flack about his report.

This is the "trip report" forum people. The authors here write their impressions and experiences up. By the very nature of this place the reports can be emmotive and personal.

No one is trying to say this is how it always is, but how it was for me at the time.

Some might argue that BA got a bum deal out of this report - so what? If other people are reading these reports and making their flying decisions based on one report then they get what they deserve.

Particularly these days flying is a very variable activity, yes even on the beloved (by some) BA.
As most of you know I fly a lot (well too much actually) and I don't find it that hard to believe that the crew behaved as the OP states. I don't think his report is coloured by a particular event on the flight. I have had flights where the BA F crew disappeared for most of the flight (and that was a much longer flight) and have reported it on this forum. I have also had crew that were absolutely brilliant and reported this too.

As I said this is one persons account of one flight which after all is the purpose of this forum.

Give the guy a break folks.

As an avid trip report writer I am distrubed that the OP has been getting this much flack about his report.

This is the "trip report" forum people. The authors here write their impressions and experiences up. By the very nature of this place the reports can be emmotive and personal.

No one is trying to say this is how it always is, but how it was for me at the time.

Some might argue that BA got a bum deal out of this report - so what? If other people are reading these reports and making their flying decisions based on one report then they get what they deserve.

Particularly these days flying is a very variable activity, yes even on the beloved (by some) BA.
As most of you know I fly a lot (well too much actually) and I don't find it that hard to believe that the crew behaved as the OP states. I don't think his report is coloured by a particular event on the flight. I have had flights where the BA F crew disappeared for most of the flight (and that was a much longer flight) and have reported it on this forum. I have also had crew that were absolutely brilliant and reported this too.

As I said this is one persons account of one flight which after all is the purpose of this forum.

Give the guy a break folks.


Moomba, well said. I thought the original report was an objective report of what the OP encountered.
If people fly enough they will know service levels vary dramatically.
In september i flew AA LHR-ORD and return. The outbound was the best AA flight i have taken, great crew who really seemed to care. The return flight was shocking with a disinterested crew who even failed to serve me breakfast when i was sitting up wide awake.

You can only report what you encounter.

As an avid trip report writer I am distrubed that the OP has been getting this much flack about his report.

This is the "trip report" forum people. The authors here write their impressions and experiences up. By the very nature of this place the reports can be emmotive and personal.

No one is trying to say this is how it always is, but how it was for me at the time.

Some might argue that BA got a bum deal out of this report - so what? If other people are reading these reports and making their flying decisions based on one report then they get what they deserve.

Particularly these days flying is a very variable activity, yes even on the beloved (by some) BA.
As most of you know I fly a lot (well too much actually) and I don't find it that hard to believe that the crew behaved as the OP states. I don't think his report is coloured by a particular event on the flight. I have had flights where the BA F crew disappeared for most of the flight (and that was a much longer flight) and have reported it on this forum. I have also had crew that were absolutely brilliant and reported this too.

As I said this is one persons account of one flight which after all is the purpose of this forum.

Give the guy a break folks.

Having been hard on the OP, I'll say apologies if my posts came across a bit harsh. I do appreciate the trip reports and appreciate the OP taking the time to share his experience.

These were the flights I flew, so that was the basis for my comparison.

I appreciate you posting your experiences although perhaps two separate reports might have been a better format rather than a "AA Vs BA in F" comparison.
I did a similar report with BA Vs AZ on the Europe - EZE route but I can assure you it was done in a tongue firmly in cheek style given the state of AZ at the moment.

Still, as Moomba says it is the trip reports forum and not the place to doubt the opinion of the writers. Look forward to more reports from you. ^

How many miles do you need for a C and F flight on AA? If I am correct you can also fly on El Al using AA miles.
Very OT, but yes, an AA Partner Award can include El Al flights. For award travel using AA miles between North America and the Middle East, the Y/J/F redemption levels are 90k/135k/180k.

AAdvantage All-Partner Airline Award Chart (http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do?p=/AAdvantage/partners/airlines/All_Airline_Award_Chart.jsp)

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