Qantas Frequent Flyer - Points to upgrade to business ambiguous

From the Upgrade Calculator an upgrade from economy to business costs 35,000 points. From View Your Bookings clicking Upgrade the upgrade to Premium Economy is 35,000 and to Business is 56,000. I am confused.:confused:

For an journey of 5801-7000 miles an upgrade from FULL Economy ( ie a booking in a Y fare basis ) is 35,000 points

From any other fare basis , the cost to upgrade is 56,000 points

Dave

When making the booking for the economy return the website makes no effort to tell me what class economy I am buying so I rang Qantas and they confirmed me that it is "Y". Having made the reservation but no payment the website now suggests that 56,000 is required implying that the ticket is not "Y". I am still confused.

I rang Qantas and they confirmed me that it is "Y".

Discobay - did you ask qantas if you were in economy, or did you ask if you were on fare basis Y? If you paid for a Y ticket it would be very very expensive.

If you booked over the net on the qantas website I am almost 100% certain that you would not have purchased a Y fare basis. Red e-deals, savers and flexi fares are all discount economy. When you select a fare on the qantas website you can click on the coloured box and it will tell you the restrictions on the fare. They will almost always say 'classed as discount economy'.

If you really wanted to I think you can probably upgrade your ticket from what it is now to a fare basis Y and then take advantage of the lower number of points to upgrade, but i suspect that would not be cost effective.

Regards

lme ff

I asked specifically if the ticket would be economy Y and the answer I got was yes.
I just rang Qantas and the answer was less than helpful. He just kept reading from his manual and didn't once consider what I had been told was misleading.
I have checked the booking online and it is indeed economy V. The geezer said I can upgrade to a full economy if I paid the difference then I could put in the request for the upgrade.
All this is doing my head in :mad:. From what I have read here the upgrade requests are just that and only being a lowly bronze member I stand little chance of that request being approved. So there seems little point in paying for a full economy.

I don't have 56,000 points. My wife has some but she has already transferred some to me this week. How can I combine our points to request the upgrade to premium economy?

I asked specifically if the ticket would be economy Y and the answer I got was yes.

I don't have 56,000 points. My wife has some but she has already transferred some to me this week. How can I combine our points to request the upgrade to premium economy?

Sorry to hear that discobay - but many qantas reservations staff don't appreciate that travellers may understand the nuances of different booking classes! For example, if I ask a reservations staff member 'what class is that ticket in' they will often respond 'economy'. I will then need to ask 'yes, but what sub-class'.

It is a different story if I am dealing with the premium desk, where 9 times out of 10 the answer will be to tell me first off what sub-class I am in.

There is the option to 'top-up' your points. If you are 15% away from the number of points required you can purchase the additional, so you would need about 47500 at the moment (to buy the top up to 56000).

The other option would be to request an upgrade to premium economy class. Qantas premium economy is actually very good, and is a sub business class experience rather than being a premium economy experience. The food, entertainment, wide seats, wine list etc are all pretty good.

Regards

lme ff

The points required to upgrade to premium economy is 35,000 so you should have enough to do it based on your plan to upgrade to business at 35k

If you have done a family transfer in one direction, you may be able to do one in the other direction

Dave

Thanks for your suggestions. I have emailed a complaint to Qantas for the anguish this has caused me though I don't expect much help.
Yes, premium economy seems my only option. Is the limit on transfer bound by calendar year? Dave, is your suggestion that I transfer my points to my wife and then get her to use her new points total to upgrade my booking? Is that the only way?
I am looking at other airlines now because to be honest if I can't get a stab at the upgrade then I may aswell buy elsewhere that is cheaper (I hope that doesn't sound too childish).

Thanks for your suggestions. I have emailed a complaint to Qantas for the anguish this has caused me though I don't expect much help.
Yes, premium economy seems my only option. Is the limit on transfer bound by calendar year? Dave, is your suggestion that I transfer my points to my wife and then get her to use her new points total to upgrade my booking? Is that the only way?
I am looking at other airlines now because to be honest if I can't get a stab at the upgrade then I may aswell buy elsewhere that is cheaper (I hope that doesn't sound too childish).

I cannot see how it can have caused much anguish given that you haven't paid for the flights yet and you could, if desired, pay the extra for a full fare economy ticket

1 transfer per 12 months is permitted, so you may be able to transfer your points to her and then get her to upgrade your booking

Dave

There is more to the story - I have a return BNE-HKG which I had to change to fit in with a change to circumstances. Following that I made the HKG-LON booking. I did this by ringing the HK office because my BNE-HKG ticket was purchased there and the date change charge is in HKD (I didn't want to pay from here using the weak AUD). If I decide not to use the Qantas booking for HKG-LON then I could find difficulty matching up other airline schedules.

The points transfer thing is a little restrictive don't you think?

Discobay Welcome to FT. ^
The points transfer thing is a little restrictive don't you think?Many frequent flyer program's do not allow transfers at all. You can buy extra ff points, but upgrades with points are hard to get.

Discobay Welcome to FT. ^
Many frequent flyer program's do not allow transfers at all. You can buy extra ff points, but upgrades with points are hard to get.

I appreciate that. The purchasing is restricted to 15% as pointed out.

There is more to the story - I have a return BNE-HKG which I had to change to fit in with a change to circumstances. Following that I made the HKG-LON booking. I did this by ringing the HK office because my BNE-HKG ticket was purchased there and the date change charge is in HKD (I didn't want to pay from here using the weak AUD). If I decide not to use the Qantas booking for HKG-LON then I could find difficulty matching up other airline schedules.

The points transfer thing is a little restrictive don't you think?

The strength of the AUD would have no impact on the cost of the change whether you paid in Australia or Hong Kong; they would convert to local currency based on the exchange rate that day


I think that the points transfer is quite generous rather than restrictive; QFF allows up to 100,000 points to be transferred to another account for no cost

Dave

The strength of the AUD would have no impact on the cost of the change whether you paid in Australia or Hong Kong; they would convert to local currency based on the exchange rate that day

I think that the points transfer is quite generous rather than restrictive; QFF allows up to 100,000 points to be transferred to another account for no cost

Dave

I have AUD and HKD so it is wiser for me to pay in HKD.

W.r.t. points transfer it's the one transfer per year that I was referring to. The 100,000 limit is brilliant and welcome.

W.r.t. points transfer it's the one transfer per year that I was referring to. The 100,000 limit is brilliant and welcome.

I think that it is pretty reasonable; it is one of the few areas where QFF is better than AA; AA has lower limits plus charges for the transfers (for example USD150 for 15,000 transfer )

The QFF scheme is not designed to create a family account where points can be regularly pooled but the transfer allowance is designed to allow you the occasional situation where you may have enough points between you for an award but not in one account

If wanting a family account, the BA scheme may be better for you

Dave

Qantas rang me this monring and straight off the bat she tells me that my booking is economy Y and I can upgrade to business. I pointed out to her that the booking is not Y and she hesitated (probably actually reading the information off the computer as we talked) then agreed it is a discounted economy booking. I doubt that she is in the complaints/better customer relations department and probably an email admin.
I repeated my email comment that the Qantas website does not inform customers in which sub-class of economy the bookings are made and that I only have enough points to upgrade to premium economy. She then said that PE is better than business!
Why do I bother.:mad:

Qantas rang me this monring and straight off the bat she tells me that my booking is economy Y and I can upgrade to business. I pointed out to her that the booking is not Y and she hesitated (probably actually reading the information off the computer as we talked) then agreed it is a discounted economy booking. I doubt that she is in the complaints/better customer relations department and probably an email admin.
I repeated my email comment that the Qantas website does not inform customers in which sub-class of economy the bookings are made and that I only have enough points to upgrade to premium economy. She then said that PE is better than business!
Why do I bother.:mad:

Actually, they clearly outline this information on the booking page.

If you click the heading of the different booking classes, you'll see this:

Qantas Frequent Flyer

* Flight Upgrade Awards are eligible on this fare except if this fare is a Qantas Any Seat Award.
* Flight Upgrades can only be redeemed on Qantas operated flights.
* Points and Status Credits are not earned when travelling on Qantas Any Seat Awards. Classed as Discount Economy when Status Credits are earned on this fare.

for a Red e-Deal, which means that the points needed are Discount Economy.

On this topic, how do you get the Fully Flexible option for international fares, that gives you the reduced upgrade cost?

There is more to the story - I have a return BNE-HKG which I had to change to fit in with a change to circumstances. Following that I made the HKG-LON booking. I did this by ringing the HK office because my BNE-HKG ticket was purchased there and the date change charge is in HKD (I didn't want to pay from here using the weak AUD). If I decide not to use the Qantas booking for HKG-LON then I could find difficulty matching up other airline schedules.

The points transfer thing is a little restrictive don't you think?

Discobay, what exactly is your QF BNE-HKG-LON itinerary which gives you a better matching of schedules than other airlines?

BD

I think that the points transfer is quite generous rather than restrictive; QFF allows up to 100,000 points to be transferred to another account for no cost
Dave

I agree. We have three adult kids and we regularly move points from one account to the other (within the T&C) in any one year to ensure that there are enough points available for their international travel.

Where possible, I move them to my account and book through that one as they get my status on the boarding slip which gives them lounge access.

As Dave states 'the points transfer is quite generous rather than restrictive'

On this topic, how do you get the Fully Flexible option for international fares, that gives you the reduced upgrade cost?

I use that new invention called the telephone. Just phone and book and I can specify exactly what I want

Dave

I use that new invention called the telephone. Just phone and book and I can specify exactly what I want

Dave

Interesting. I figured it would be the case - most of my travel is straightforward internet bookings but we are usually asked to book Fully Flex for corporate travel.

Thanks Dave :)

I think that it is pretty reasonable; it is one of the few areas where QFF is better than AA; AA has lower limits plus charges for the transfers (for example USD150 for 15,000 transfer )
Dave

Did not realise that it was that expensive!!!!

With QF we did a sort of round robin for our recent trip firstly to bag LAX-BNE in J (my points and balanced transferred to wife) and then later BA flights (wifes points) and still later AA flights (my points and balance wife and daughter) as I accumulate much faster than wife and daughter and had built another significant balance by time for AA booking.

Discobay, what exactly is your QF BNE-HKG-LON itinerary which gives you a better matching of schedules than other airlines?

BD

I have found that my BNE-HKG is better matched with KLM for the HKG-ABZ leg.

Actually, they clearly outline this information on the booking page.
...
for a Red e-Deal, which means that the points needed are Discount Economy.

I don't see anywhere on their website that tells me the booking I am about to make is for Discounted Economy. Having made the booking the website tells me it is in Economy with no indication of the sub-class. The LHR-ABZ leg does show as Economy (V) but that is not relevant.

I don't see anywhere on their website that tells me the booking I am about to make is for Discounted Economy. Having made the booking the website tells me it is in Economy with no indication of the sub-class. The LHR-ABZ leg does show as Economy (V) but that is not relevant.

At the top of the list of fares, it lists the fare type as 1st row. Where it says "Sale" "Red e-deal" "Super saver" or "Flexi Saver" click on it and it will open up a window with the fare rules

Picking SYD-LHR for example, the flexi saver rules state


Flight Upgrade Awards are eligible on this fare except if this fare is a Qantas Any Seat Award.
Flight Upgrade Awards can only be redeemed on Qantas operated flights.
Points and Status Credits are not earned when travelling on Qantas Any Seat Awards. Classed as Discount Economy when Status Credits are earned on this fare.
Frequent Flyers do not earn points on Qantas codeshares with Deutsche Bahn.


So it can be seen that the flexi saver is discount economy. Any discount economy fare requires the higher points for upgrades

Dave

At the top of the list of fares, it lists the fare type as 1st row. Where it says "Sale" "Red e-deal" "Super saver" or "Flexi Saver" click on it and it will open up a window with the fare rules

Those fare types must be for domestic flights.

However, I have found this at the bottom of the page when making a new booking:
Qantas Frequent Flyer

* Flight Upgrade Awards are eligible on this fare except if this fare is a Qantas Any Seat Award.
* Flight Upgrade Awards can only be redeemed on Qantas operated flights.
* Points and Status Credits are not earned when travelling on Qantas Any Seat Awards. Classed as Discount Economy when Status Credits are earned on this fare.

My existing booking does not show this information.

See post #17.

When making the booking on line, you will see column headers with text like Sale, Red e-Deal, Super Saver and Flexi Saver.

Each of these is a hot link to a pop up window with information about the fare should you select an option form that column.

While these do not give the actual booking sub class, there are entries beside "Qantas Frequent Flyer" which advise the classification of booking under that class (Economy, Discount Economy), and indeed, whether you can actually upgrade or not.

e.g. click on each of the following:

Sale (http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/amadeus/minirules/AUASSALE/index.html)______Red e-Deal (http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/amadeus/minirules/AUASRED/index.html)____Super Saver (http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/amadeus/minirules/AUASSUPSAV/index.html)____Flexi Saver (http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/amadeus/minirules/AUASFLEX/index.html)

All you do is look for "Classed as Discount Economy" or "Classed as Economy".

I have found that my BNE-HKG is better matched with KLM for the HKG-ABZ leg.

Which sort of contradicts the previous post:


There is more to the story - I have a return BNE-HKG which I had to change to fit in with a change to circumstances. Following that I made the HKG-LON booking. I did this by ringing the HK office because my BNE-HKG ticket was purchased there and the date change charge is in HKD (I didn't want to pay from here using the weak AUD). If I decide not to use the Qantas booking for HKG-LON then I could find difficulty matching up other airline schedules.


Are you sure of your timings?

QF flies 4Weekly BNE-HKG, departing late morning arriving into HKG early evening. KLM's flight leaves HKG late morning.

BD

I have found that my BNE-HKG is better matched with KLM for the HKG-ABZ leg. KL fly HKG-ABZ? Well, there you go, never knew that, I usually fly into LHR and then get the sleeper-train up to ABZ.

Dave

Which sort of contradicts the previous post:



Are you sure of your timings?

QF flies 4Weekly BNE-HKG, departing late morning arriving into HKG early evening. KLM's flight leaves HKG late morning.

BD

I already hold the BNE-SYD-HKG ticket. I made a date change to it to fit in with the ex-HKG flights to LHR.
KLM fly out of HKG a little later than QF and have a shorter layover. They also depart ABZ at a reasonable time whereas QF depart at 0625 hours.

KL fly HKG-ABZ? Well, there you go, never knew that, I usually fly into LHR and then get the sleeper-train up to ABZ.

Dave

Actually, that is KLM the Dutch airline.

I already hold the BNE-SYD-HKG ticket. I made a date change to it to fit in with the ex-HKG flights to LHR.
KLM fly out of HKG a little later than QF and have a shorter layover. They also depart ABZ at a reasonable time whereas QF depart at 0625 hours.

But similarly, QF SYD-HKG does not have an early morning arrival to coincide with a late morning departure with KLM .... this story gets "more to it" all the time .... so you're flying BNE-SYD-HKG (overnite) HKG-AMS-ABZ because the itinerary fits better? :confused:



BD

But similarly, QF SYD-HKG does not have an early morning arrival to coincide with a late morning departure with KLM .... this story gets "more to it" all the time .... so you're flying BNE-SYD-HKG (overnite) HKG-AMS-ABZ because the itinerary fits better? :confused:



BD

I get into HKG 2130 and to bed by 2330-2400. QF leaves 0800 which means 0600 check-in and awake by 0400-0430. KLM leaves at 1110 - a no brainer.

Actually, that is KLM the Dutch airline. I know that - I didn't know they operated between Hong Kong and Aberdeen, I thought they would have gone via Amsterdam.

Dave

(I was being sarcastic in my last post)

They do, I left it out to make my point clearer.

They do, I left it out to make my point clearer. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

They do, I left it out to make my point clearer.
It ended up being as clear as mud.

It ended up being as clear as mud.

How droll.

I always book by phone and ask for the cheapest upgradeable fare available.....this is usually in S class....this is usually the sale fare listed on the internet....it might cost $15 but does save on confusion.....

Someone in a different forum found this:
http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/amadeus/minirules/AUASRED/index.html

The conditions state "Flight Upgrade Awards are eligible on this fare except if this is a Qantas Any Seat Award."

Surely that is is incorrect since Red e-deals are booked in E, N, O or Q class. But those rules seem to suggest otherwise. Is this just a mistake on the website?

Someone in a different forum found this:
http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/amadeus/minirules/AUASRED/index.html

The conditions state "Flight Upgrade Awards are eligible on this fare except if this is a Qantas Any Seat Award."

Surely that is is incorrect since Red e-deals are booked in E, N, O or Q class. But those rules seem to suggest otherwise. Is this just a mistake on the website?

This would look like the rules for an international ticket and so could be in an eligable class. Domestic red-e-deals are in E,N or O , but for international things are different

Dave

This would look like the rules for an international ticket and so could be in an eligable class. Domestic red-e-deals are in E,N or O , but for international things are different


So does that mean that international red e-deals don't book into E, N or O?

So does that mean that international red e-deals don't book into E, N or O?

No, all Dave is saying is that internationally, not all red-e deals are in N, O or Q class.

Some international red-e deals book into higher classes, such as V class, as well as N, O and Q. It just depends.

Sometimes, for example, the lowest fares are 'sale' fares and red-e deals, being priced higher than sale fares, are a higher class and eligible for upgrades.

You need to check the fare conditions every time you want to upgrade as the conditions may change.

regards

lme ff

The actual rules text (http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/program/terms#jump1) is:...
'Restricted Fare' means any Qantas fare ticketed in E, N, O, P, Q, U, X or Z booking classes, which includes some Qantas Red e-Deals; ...And for upgrades (http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/program/terms#jump15):...
16. Flight Upgrades

16.1 General
...

16.1.3 Flight Upgrades are not available when travelling on Restricted Fares, Codeshare Flights or Award Flights. Otherwise, Flight Upgrades may be requested only on a paid, confirmed and ticketed Qantas domestic or international flight booking on a service operated by Qantas, with a Qantas (QF) flight number, in accordance with these Terms and Conditions.

Where possible, I move them to my account and book through that one as they get my status on the boarding slip which gives them lounge access.


How does this work if the people you're booking access for are also QF FF's? The reason I ask is I've recently booked a redemption flight for a family member and they're also a QF FF. I've put their number in the booking, but will it show their FF with my status? If so, they'll get access to the QP. If it shows theirs, it'll just show NB. Curious to know if anyone could clarify :)

How does this work if the people you're booking access for are also QF FF's?

I don't think it should, full-stop. The name - and status - on the BP should reflect the passenger, not the person booking the flight. The only way I can think of this being "bypassed" is if the person booking the flight assigns their FF number to the booking, mismatching the actual passenger.

However, I would have thought QF's systems would be designed to pick this up - though given the number of bugs regularly reported here, nothing would surprise me.

BD

How does this work if the people you're booking access for are also QF FF's? The reason I ask is I've recently booked a redemption flight for a family member and they're also a QF FF. I've put their number in the booking, but will it show their FF with my status? If so, they'll get access to the QP. If it shows theirs, it'll just show NB. Curious to know if anyone could clarify :)

It doesn't. If a platinum (or gold or anything else) books a ticket for another passenger the status does NOT transfer onto the boarding pass of the other passenger. Nor are lounge access rights transferred.


Regards

lme ff

Where possible, I move them to my account and book through that one as they get my status on the boarding slip which gives them lounge access.The only way for this to work is if orac's associates travel as orac themselves - and, realistically, then only domestically.