Las Vegas - A visit to the Encore 12/23-It's gorgeous!

Went to Botero at the Encore last night.The guest experience from the reservations line forward was really great.

The Encore is very chic and very upscale.The finishes used are all very expensive and it shows every dollar spent This is a younger euro club chic rather than an old money elegance.I don't think the Kettles will like it at all.

Most of the restaurants are very expensive-and Botero was no exception.Dinner for two with one drink was $260 with tip.Everything was great except the flatware which is over sized and clumsy -evrything else was great,some really fun desserts so do not skip that bit.The room is really really dark and so beautiful with a huge Botero sculpture in the center of the room.

They were empty when we arrived(5:30)but full when we left at 7:30

One little note-you better like the color red if you plan on visiting Encore-it is the VERY prominent color throughout the hotel,

I reallllllll liked the place-steve Wynn has again raised the bar for Las Vegas.

Jeez, you need a GPS to navigate the Wynn property anymore.

The Encore is the exact spankin' mirror image of the Wynn. In fact, if you were blindfolded and then turned loose in one or the other casino, the only way you would know whether you were in the Wynn or the Encore is [drumroll] the chandeliers in the Encore are dyed cherry red.

That, and there is the Sinatra restaurant featuring, as you've heard, one of Frank's gold records and a bunch of photos of Frank and Mr. Wynn.

I gave myself a tour of the vast hallways that connect the two properties, one a shopping arcade and the other a twisty yellow passage of meeting rooms, all alike, and very elegant. Must of walked 3/4 of a mile.

I will stay there soon and give a full report.

Thanks for the update bigguyinpasadena, but what about the food??? Details please :).

Does Encore have its own buffet?

No buffet at Encore :rolleyes:

The food at Botero was reallllllllly good.my Boss had the mushroom tart for her opener and I had the crab agnoletti both got high marks.
We both had the rack of lamb which was fantastic-but very full flavored grass fed lamb(meaning those that do not love lamb would find it overpowering)served with farro and hericots vert-both of which were outstanding.we shared an side of potatoes au gratin and a side of broccoli-both of which,while good,are very over priced at $11.

For dessert she had the deconstucted mojito sorbet-which was fun.I had the chesecake which was very fun and tasty.I hink we ordered the wrong things If i ate here again I would order the cupcakes to share or a souffle.

Service was very eager,perhaps a little nervous.There is a very large serving staff.
Music is very hip,perhaps a little too loud.
Do checkout the restrooms :D

Do checkout the restrooms :D

Hi,
OK, that is on my list of things to do whilst in LAS from 2nd to 7th Jan ( think I will be at the Mandalay Bay but I could get the wynn for about $140 per night ):D

Merry Christmas!

Regards

TBS

The food at Botero was reallllllllly good.


Thank you, will definitely need to give it a try, I'm a lamb connoisseur too.

Went in and checked it out opening night. It was probably around 10:30 and Steve Wynn himself was in the Rolex store checking things out. He looked like a rockstar in person.

Went in and checked it out opening night. It was probably around 10:30 and Steve Wynn himself was in the Rolex store checking things out. He looked like a rockstar in person.

Last I heard he lived in Wynn. He actually almost tossed my buddy (and me) out of the hotel two summers ago when we were there for a bachelor party. Wynn said, and I quote..."I need you like I need a hole in the head...I'll check you out of here right now and send you to the Palms....where you belong"

He was trying to go into a restaurant in shorts and a wife beater after spending all day drinking by the pool. The hostess told him he needed to be properly dressed, he got belligerent ....and Wynn was having dinner there that night a few tables away and heard the commotion.

My friend had no idea who this guy was until I started dragging him away from the restaurant and apologizing on his behalf to "Mr. Wynn"

Went in and checked it out opening night. It was probably around 10:30 and Steve Wynn himself was in the Rolex store checking things out. He looked like a rockstar in person.

Don't get too ga ga over Stevie... yeah, I think he's brilliant.. and, his coup by selling the AC 'Nugget for way above value, and then working with Michael Milken and Drexel junk bonds to finance the Mirage... "pure brilliance" ---

But, he can be a real prick... and taking down Lyle... the quacky "true king" of baccarat... by trying to suppress the publishing of the book that exposed Wynn's mob connections... was, well.... a bit over the top...

So, I respect the man and his resorts... but, prefer to give my action to the "other" Jewish Republican in town, Sheldon.....

Had dinner at Sinatra at the encore tonight.
App's and pasta were great. The Mains(Branzino and Osso Buco)were not that good IMO.We skipped dessert
Bill for two-no booze $175 before tip.Place was very busy.Service was exceptional,Very cool room.

And yes Steve Wynn lives at the Wynn while his new home is being built.

steve retains one of the 2BR 7Kft2 apartment villas at wynn. (4BR are 10K ft2)

(encore sky villas are 2BR / 3Kft2 and 3BR / 5.8Kft2)

Don't get too ga ga over Stevie... yeah, I think he's brilliant.. and, his coup by selling the AC 'Nugget for way above value, and then working with Michael Milken and Drexel junk bonds to finance the Mirage... "pure brilliance" ---

But, he can be a real prick... and taking down Lyle... the quacky "true king" of baccarat... by trying to suppress the publishing of the book that exposed Wynn's mob connections... was, well.... a bit over the top...

So, I respect the man and his resorts... but, prefer to give my action to the "other" Jewish Republican in town, Sheldon.....

I just got done reading "The Winner Takes It All" which was less then flattering in a lot of places of Mr. Wynn. Actually, another book caught my eye in the airport on the way out and it said it was the book that Wynn bankrupted a guy over, so I guess that was the one.

And kicked out by Steve Wynn... LOL! Sorry, I don't mean to laugh, but man you got a hell of a story for the grandkids there. He'd probably love to have you now as slow as it is. So I gotta know, did you go to the Palms?

And a lot of his "rockstar" look had to do with the obvious plastic surgery that Kerkorian paid for in the Bellagio deal.

And kicked out by Steve Wynn... LOL! Sorry, I don't mean to laugh, but man you got a hell of a story for the grandkids there. He'd probably love to have you now as slow as it is. So I gotta know, did you go to the Palms?



LOL...No. Thankfully we did not get tossed from the hotel. Which was good, because it was day #1 of a 4 day bachelor party.

Wynn was mad as hell though. He came full steam ahead from about 30 feet away waving around a cordless phone which he began pointing at us as he went off on his rant....definitely a good story for the grandkids!

I just got done reading "The Winner Takes It All" which was less then flattering in a lot of places of Mr. Wynn. Actually, another book caught my eye in the airport on the way out and it said it was the book that Wynn bankrupted a guy over, so I guess that was the one.

LINK TO ARTICLE (http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jun/28/local/me-stuart28)

Stuart’s Barricade Books was forced into bankruptcy in 1997 after casino owner Stephen A. Wynn (the subject of an unauthorized Stuart-published biography) won a $3.1-million libel judgment over a line of catalog copy that linked him to organized crime. Stuart continued publishing, and the judgment was later reversed.

Although he was known for being tight-fisted with authors’ advances and reviewers’ copies of his books, Stuart provided expense-paid vacations for as many as 40 of his employees to Puerto Rico, Europe and other destinations.

Stuart, who was known for carrying a $25,000 bankroll in a suitcase during junkets to casinos in Atlantic City, N.J., and Las Vegas in the ’80s, wrote several books on gambling: “Casino Gambling for the Winner,” “Lyle Stuart on Baccarat” and “Winning at Casino Gambling.”

The book was Running Scared... (http://www.amazon.com/Running-Scared-Treacherous-Times-Casino/dp/1568581904/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230557962&sr=1-1) The Life and Treacherous Times of Las Vegas Casino King Steve Wynn

Well, now I have to read it, after I get done with "Why We Suck" by Denis Leary of course.

seems like amex FHR has ~10% discount, at least on parlor/salon ^

not sure if virtuoso is same.

Any details/pics on the Mark Poidevin's restaurant? I'm guessing this is a restaurant that will be after the diamonds/stars.

Any details/pics on the Mark Poidevin's restaurant? I'm guessing this is a restaurant that will be after the diamonds/stars.

Sinatra is placed a notch higher, though my bill at Switch was significantly more. Here's a short review from my report (http://www.ratevegas.com/blog/2008/12/encores_grand_o.html):

The final restaurant I tried was Switch. Perhaps Encore's most hyped, Switch's walls and ceiling literally change during the course of your dinner. While Encore doesn't have a "feature" a la Bellagio's fountains or Mirage's volcano, it seems like Switch is quickly becoming the tourist attraction of the resort as people lined around watching it while we dined. The food was fantastic. I had the caesar salad to start, bone-in rib eye as my entrée, and chocolate soufflé for dessert. The steak was excellent--not the best I've ever had (that title belongs to L'Atelier), but still a strong contender for one of the best steaks in town. With a modest bottle of wine, three appetizers, five entrees, six deserts, one cappuccino, and tip, the meal was a hefty $650 total but worth every penny. If I had to fault it, I'd say the "switch" happens too often. There are three different kinds of walls and ceilings that change during dinner and by the fourth or fifth "switch," I grew tired of it. Over the course of dinner, we saw eight or nine changes occurring every 20 minutes. If they timed it to every 45 minutes, I think it would be perfect.

Does Switch have a second dining room that is not so exposed to the casino lobby floor?
We did consider it but at those prices I do not want to hear the sounds of slot machines.
Thanks for the report MikeE ^

seems like amex FHR has ~10% discount, at least on parlor/salon ^

not sure if virtuoso is same.

I believe FHR gets a discount on all rooms. I just returned from a 3 night stay at Encore. Booked Resort Suite using FHR (DavidO was on vacation so I couldn't try Virtuoso). Rate quoted was lower than directly from Wynn. Received an upgrade to a Panoramic Suite (same room, better view).

FHR amenities included $30 per day per person to be used at The Society Cafe, The Lobby Bar Cafe, The Buffet, and Terrace Point Cafe for breakfast. (all my charges for breakfast were covered including a stop at The Cafe at the Drugstore for coffee). ^

And a one time $90 ($45 per person) for lunch at any of the restaurants. This was more than enough for lunch at Red 8 (and lunch included a few beers which were covered).

Unfortunately, I got a cold out there and didn't enjoy any of the fine dining restaurants.

I believe FHR gets a discount on all rooms. I just returned from a 3 night stay at Encore. Booked Resort Suite using FHR (DavidO was on vacation so I couldn't try Virtuoso). Rate quoted was lower than directly from Wynn. Received an upgrade to a Panoramic Suite (same room, better view).

FHR amenities included $30 per day per person to be used at The Society Cafe, The Lobby Bar Cafe, The Buffet, and Terrace Point Cafe for breakfast. (all my charges for breakfast were covered including a stop at The Cafe at the Drugstore for coffee). ^

And a one time $90 ($45 per person) for lunch at any of the restaurants. This was more than enough for lunch at Red 8 (and lunch included a few beers which were covered).

Unfortunately, I got a cold out there and didn't enjoy any of the fine dining restaurants.

Very nice amenities. Was your stay during weekday or weekend?

With a modest bottle of wine, three appetizers, five entrees, six deserts, one cappuccino...

I really like those ratios :p.

Very nice amenities. Was your stay during weekday or weekend?

Weekend. Friday 12/26 thru Monday 12/29.

Does Switch have a second dining room that is not so exposed to the casino lobby floor?
We did consider it but at those prices I do not want to hear the sounds of slot machines.
Thanks for the report MikeE ^

You're welcome!

Switch doesn't have a second dining room, but two relatively large private dining rooms at different corners of the restaurant. They won't make you completely oblivious to the casino, but will definitely lessen the noise and sightlines.

with the opening of Encore, you can forget going to the buffet at Wynn unless you want a very long wait. I was there a couple of nights ago and they were stopping people entering the buffet line as it was full. We were told at least a 2 hour wait.

with the opening of Encore, you can forget going to the buffet at Wynn unless you want a very long wait. I was there a couple of nights ago and they were stopping people entering the buffet line as it was full. We were told at least a 2 hour wait.

Hi,

Oh my!!!:eek::eek:

Two hours is just insane IMHO.

Thanks for that info ( looks likke I better get ready to casino hop for the buffets this weekend)! :D

Regards

TBS

january 18th has the lowest across the board rates ive seen >

149 resort
199 panoramic
239 tower
250 executive
400 parlor
600 salon
750 fairway villa

x resort
249 panoramic
289 tower
400 parlor
650 salon (FHR = 585, 10% discount)

FHR discount seems to vary slightly, not sure if virtuoso offers same discount

with the opening of Encore, you can forget going to the buffet at Wynn unless you want a very long wait. I was there a couple of nights ago and they were stopping people entering the buffet line as it was full. We were told at least a 2 hour wait.

This will be temporary-and if you visit during off times(non-weekend/holidays and off times) you should be able to get in with little or no wait.

If you are at the Encore and want to visit the Buffet a nice long walk through the convention/meeting room area will either work up an appetite or burn of some tonage!The art work and framed textiles are quite lovely-we stopped a few times to admire them and to catch our breath.

Two hours is just insane IMHO.


The most I've ever waited in a buffet line was 2.5 hours. This was during the hey-days of Bellagio's buffet, you know, when all the food was ultra fresh, made with quality and care, extremely meaty king crab legs, etc. Consistent qualities you no longer find nowadays, not even at Wynn.

We got to the Wynn buffet at about 9:30 am on Saturday, and there was virtually no line. By the time we left an hour later (would have been 45 minutes, but it took 15 minutes to make a friggin' omelet), the line was pushing two hours. Our general rule for Las Vegas is that unless the buffets are free and there are no lines, we skip them. Just not worth the calories.

Having said that, Wynn is definitely one of the better ones.

Mike

The most I've ever waited in a buffet line was 2.5 hours.

Last time I ate at the Wynn buffet, in July or August I think (pre-financial meltdown, so hotel was busy) the line took about an hour....*almost* worth slipping the host a $50 to try to skip the line.

It was Sunday brunch, and if the allure of endless Freixenet champagne wasn't waiting on the other side, plus the fact it was a comped buffet through RedCard, I definitely would've bailed. I'm sure it'll be more busy once Encore is firing on all cylinders.

The most I've ever waited in a buffet line was 2.5 hours. This was during the hey-days of Bellagio's buffet, you know, when all the food was ultra fresh, made with quality and care, extremely meaty king crab legs, etc. Consistent qualities you no longer find nowadays, not even at Wynn.

As Much as I love the Wynn Buffet on its best days it does not compare to the glory that was the Bellagios buffet.Venison!Wild turkey!Buffalo! and the fish was nicer than most fish restaurants.The salads made to order and the cheses were supplied by the fella I use in las vegas for my gourmet vittles.
And the desserts!Those were worth the wait themsleves-even the bread used to be made in house and was great.

All of that dissapeared when MGM took it over and decided that evrything had to be about profit :mad:
I don't even bother going there anymore.

Just spoke with a friend who was there Christmas eve, he was not overly impressed with Encore. But then again, he did wait three hours for the Bellagio buffet ;) :p.

These two room categories -- the "Resort Room" at the original Wynn or the "Encore Suite" at the Encore -- are about the same price ($10 difference). They seem like basically the entry-level rooms at the respective properties.

Which should I choose? I assume the latter; note that I have never stayed at either hotel.

All of that dissapeared when MGM took it over and decided that evrything had to be about profit.

Gee, a business about profit? Imagine that. :rolleyes:

Do you think that the previous owners of the Bellagio were not interested in making a profit? :rolleyes:

You can certainly complain about the reduction in quality, and can certainly question the wisdom of whatever business strategy they are pursuing, but you should realize that a company exists, by definition, to earn a profit.

mecabq, definitely encore resort > wynn resort.

tower is where there is a tradeoff. encore's is smaller. wynn's has a private pool.

You can certainly complain about the reduction in quality, and can certainly question the wisdom of whatever business strategy they are pursuing, but you should realize that a company exists, by definition, to earn a profit.

If you've followed this board you would have known that Bellagio's quality and service, at both its restaurants and hotel operations, have diminished greatly since it was taken over by MGM which is what bigguyinpasadena was referring to.

1) The Buffet line - what, none of these people will ever eat again??? They were lining up even after being told they would have 10-15 mins to eat by the time they were seated. All buffet promo comps were locked out for the holidays (except the Hertz deal, which we got), and no lines passes were available, except for serious high rollers.

Pretty much all hotels are cutting down big time on line passes - the days when you could get permanent, open date line passes to Bellagio just by having consistent rated play of any sort are long gone. Even for high-rollers, they are trying to push them to just take comps instead of passes. Often I just want passes because I go with friends or groups of friends I don't know that well. Actually, last week I asked at Bellagio but didn't know any of the hosts present and the girl I talked to asked me three times why I didn't want to get a comp and finally reluctantly wrote me a pass. It was just plain insulting to be honest - no guest should ever have to ask more than once.

I know this is happening at Wynn too - but as far as Bellagio is concerned, what I hear is that it's actually FAB management at the buffet trying to crack down on line pass usage. Seems silly to me. Hopefully it won't become like Jasmine dim sum buffet in years past where we actually need hosts to walk us into the restaurant to bypass the line.


Gee, a business about profit? Imagine that. :rolleyes:

Do you think that the previous owners of the Bellagio were not interested in making a profit? :rolleyes:

You can certainly complain about the reduction in quality, and can certainly question the wisdom of whatever business strategy they are pursuing, but you should realize that a company exists, by definition, to earn a profit.

Don't you think the statement "decided that everything had to be about profit" refers exactly to questioning the wisdom of their business strategy? :rolleyes:

Gee, a business about profit? Imagine that. :rolleyes:

Do you think that the previous owners of the Bellagio were not interested in making a profit? :rolleyes:

You can certainly complain about the reduction in quality, and can certainly question the wisdom of whatever business strategy they are pursuing, but you should realize that a company exists, by definition, to earn a profit.

The previous owner of the Bellagio, Steve Wynn AKA Mirage Resorts Inc, made quite a handy profit at the Bellagio, and the Mirage to boot - all while delivering a top quality service and product.

Everything was done to Wynn's standards, which is why the properties were popular and made money, and if shareholders cried about tighter margins because of the venison and buffalo, he would probably flip them off and tell them to sell their stock. It was his way or the highway, and pretty much everyone in Vegas knows the man understands how to design and deliver a top quality product - hence the success of The Wynn and the likely success of Encore as well, probably at the continued expense of his former resorts.

There are still only two Vegas developers in history who really 'get it' - Ben Siegel and Steve Wynn.

Even for high-rollers, they are trying to push them to just take comps instead of passes. Often I just want passes because I go with friends or groups of friends I don't know that well.

IMO, high-rollers, don't use buffets, so this is a non issue [for high-rollers].

But, why would they, when one can order anything they desire (as often as they desire, and for their friends) in a full service gourmet restaurant (or room service in their suite) along with cocktails and wine -- all for $0 ;)

Actually, if you are a real high-roller, they'll be more than happy to setup the buffet in your suite. ;);)

There are still only two Vegas developers in history who really 'get it' - Ben Siegel and Steve Wynn.

and, the best casino operator (manager) was Frank "Lefty" Rosenthal... well, unless you pi$$ed him off. :p

Gee, a business about profit? Imagine that. :rolleyes:

Do you think that the previous owners of the Bellagio were not interested in making a profit? :rolleyes:

You can certainly complain about the reduction in quality, and can certainly question the wisdom of whatever business strategy they are pursuing, but you should realize that a company exists, by definition, to earn a profit.

Steve Wynn understood that a buffet draws in folks to a property that might otherwise not visit.On the Way to a buffet they might(hopefully)drop a few coins in a machine which is almost pure profit.You can charge enough to get the higher end Kettles in and hopefully they will drop a few hundred.You do not want to price it so low that you get the Circus2 crowd clogging the halways
The Buffet at the Bellagio back in the day when Wynn owned it lost money on a massive scale.But that was fine because the casino was super profitable.
MGM runs on a more familliar profit/loss scheme.They want all of the restaurants to turn a profit-even the traditional loss leader the buffet.
So they have cut corners everywhere.And IMO it is just not worth visiting anymore.

IMO, high-rollers, don't use buffets, so this is a non issue [for high-rollers].

My experience dictates otherwise. I think you define high-rollers differently than I do though, as I tend to extend the super-vague term to include gamblers in the tier below what most marketing depts call premium players. But even then, I do see premium players getting escorted into the Bellagio buffet from time to time. :)

In any case, I think you're sorta getting at what I was alluding to (at least as far as their premise) when I said that hosts are shifting their stance on passes - any high-roller is going to be able to get buffet comps without batting an eye. But it's still annoying because I shouldn't have to ask twice to get anything I'm entitled to.

Also, I'll just reiterate why line passes are attractive even to players who can get buffet comps without a problem - I don't want to buy things for people I don't know well, because I think that doing so is just plain tacky.

The Buffet at the Bellagio back in the day when Wynn owned it lost money on a massive scale.But that was fine because the casino was super profitable.

Just to note that most buffets are still loss leaders - just ask any FAB manager at the buffet's hotel. Perhaps not on the scale that Bellagio was pre-MGM, but any hotel expecting to create any real margin on its buffets is in dreamland. But maybe that's why MGM tries so hard. :p

IMO, high-rollers, don't use buffets, so this is a non issue [for high-rollers].

But, why would they, when one can order anything they desire (as often as they desire, and for their friends) in a full service gourmet restaurant (or room service in their suite) along with cocktails and wine -- all for $0 ;)

Actually, if you are a real high-roller, they'll be more than happy to setup the buffet in your suite. ;);)


I know the super high-rollers(Whales)get this sort of treatment but the "regular" high rollers(or those that like to think they are :D )and their family members do use the buffet comps-and how!
You can spot them.They are the ones with 8-16 people at one table.They load their multiple plates with the costliest items on the buffet-several plates per person and then leave 80% of the food untouched.
They are also the ones demanding the highest levels of service,while treating their severs like slaves.And often leaving the smallist tips possible-if they tip at all :mad:

I know the super high-rollers(Whales)get this sort of treatment but the "regular" high rollers(or those that like to think they are :D )and their family members do use the buffet comps-and how!
You can spot them.They are the ones with 8-16 people at one table.They load their multiple plates with the costliest items on the buffet-several plates per person and then leave 80% of the food untouched.
They are also the ones demanding the highest levels of service,while treating their severs like slaves.And often leaving the smallist tips possible-if they tip at all :mad:

I wouldn't know ;);) I'm been low-rolling it for many years, thank you very much! :D Though, everyone's definition of low-rolling is a bit different. ;) Mine, is a table games average bet of $100 to $200 with a few hours (usually 3 to 6 hours) of play per day.

edit to add : as a general matter, I tend to avoid buffets as dining is supposed to be an experience, and even the best buffet is a sub-par experience. Though, I'll probably wind up at a buffet once or twice a year [usually @ Harrah's AC]. 2008, not a single buffet in Vegas. In 2007, the only Vegas buffet I recall visiting was the Bally's Sterling Brunch.. which, is still tops in my book (love the free-flowing NV Champagne and Evian).

I think you define high-rollers differently than I do though, as I tend to extend the super-vague term to include gamblers in the tier below what most marketing depts call premium players.

In a general sense, I "start" my high-roller category [for table players] at a strong $1000/average bet for at least 4 hours per day.

But, as I said, I've been low-rolling it for years, and that's much more comfortable for me. I like spreading opportunities, and with the baccarat games I prefer (big or midi-baccarat) there are just too few opportunities at my level in Vegas. You can hardly find a $100 table, which is acceptable for me @ a big or midi game (but not at mini-baccarat). Part of the reason why I spend so much time in Atlantic City, as $20/25 $40/$50 and $100 tables for midi and big baccarat are much more common.

Dice is a much happier situation in Vegas, as the table limits have really plunged allowing a very nice spread and the ability to take full odds. But, even at a $15 dice table, in AC you can back-up the 6 & 8 to $125 (on a 5x table); so on a $15 table playing the line, you can easily have $200 in action on the table. Vegas is a little stingier on the odds (we're talking strip, overall - and I can't stand the smell of Casino Royale, so it's not an option), so the $10 (and $5 tables, like I recently played at Mirage) allow for a lot of good opportunities. My favorite strip dive is now the Sahara with $5 tables and 5X odds --- they also have some very good old school'ish dealers and bosses.

Agreed on the Sahara. Inasmuch as there ever was an "old Vegas," it seems like the casino there is the last echo of it.

I usually go there on Saturday mornings to start the day.

The last time I was at the Rivera(which was probably 4 years ago)They still had a Baccarat room with nice dealers in Tuxes-I bet you would be a whale playing $100/$200 a hand in that place :D !

I like the Sahara also-but have not been back there for 3-4 years.I think the ex CEO of Circus2 owned it at that point and was looking to make a Nascar theme out of the place(which turned me off)but I know my play would get a lot more attention at places like the Sahara than it does at the Wynn or the Palms.
I just like staying at nicer places than I play at.

of Encore
http://travel.latimes.com/articles/la-tr-encore28-2008dec28

Funny that the reviewer and I both had the Osso Bucco at Sinatra-and we both had the same reaction-tough,dry, and flavorless.The risotto was tasty though.

That L.A. Times review is impressively right on the mark IME staying there recently. I too give the hotel - and especially the staff - a big ^.

. . .
The Buffet at the Bellagio back in the day when Wynn owned it lost money on a massive scale.But that was fine because the casino was super profitable.
MGM runs on a more familliar profit/loss scheme.They want all of the restaurants to turn a profit-even the traditional loss leader the buffet.
. . .

I am not disputing that the Bellagio has declined since MGM Mirage took over. I haven't stayed there in a couple of years, so I don't know, but it's sad to hear, and not surprising I suppose.

Still -- although I do not have detailed knowledge of the respective companies' operating models -- I doubt that MGM mirage, which has been a successful/profitable company over the years, fails to understand the concept of a loss leader. Surely they are pursuing profit maximization in the aggregate just like every other company.

I am not disputing that the Bellagio has declined since MGM Mirage took over. I haven't stayed there in a couple of years, so I don't know, but it's sad to hear, and not surprising I suppose.

Still -- although I do not have detailed knowledge of the respective companies' operating models -- I doubt that MGM mirage, which has been a successful/profitable company over the years, fails to understand the concept of a loss leader. Surely they are pursuing profit maximization in the aggregate just like every other company.

Both MGM and Harrahs are incredibly succesful companies-on paper.And that is where they excel.Pushing figures around and pinching here.cutting there.
Now it seems that both have overextended themselves to the point that a temporary dip in the market has pushed both to the edge of bankruptcy.

The casino business survived for years without this sort of penny pinching-and you have to remember that a large portion of the profits never made it on the books ;) yet the major players all made incredible amounts of money.
Does MGM/Mirage understand the concept of a loss leader-welllllll I don't know.All I know is that everything Harrahs/MGM touches turns to mass market crap.

They are also rutheless meglamanical companies that love to buy up the competition,any competition-whether thay can afford it or not.And this overextension has now come back to haunt them.

All I know is that everything Harrahs/MGM touches turns to mass market crap.

That's why it's called McHarrah's :p:p

And, yes, they love to penny pinch.

Point of fact, Harrah's AC has eliminated the free bottles of water they used to give you when you picked up your car from valet. The attendants would always ask, would you like a few bottles for the road.

Back in November, I asked for some water when retrieving my car, and was advised that "perk" was eliminated. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Now, they have eliminated the Grey Goose vodka from the AC diamond lounges.. but, it doesn't bother me, as I just avoid the lounge and consume as much XO. Cognac (and Belvedere) as possible at the bars using my unlimited F&B instead. :D

Correct me if I am wrong.

I thought if your staying in the Wynn tower suites you can use the invited guest line vs. having to wait in the line. Is this no longer the case?

The Tower Suites at both Wynn and Encore each have their own separate check-in areas.