EL AL Matmid - FAA Downgrades Israeli Aviation - LY-AA Codeshares are GONE!

Did you guy see this?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1048359.html

The LY/AA codeshares are already GONE from AA's rez system!

So what are they really saying ? The article isn't very specific on the aleged shortcomings ?

El Al sent out a letter to T/As today to stress that this has no reflection on the airline itself and that all code share agreements are still in full effect.

It seems like AA removed their code from USA-Israel LY flights. AA code is still in effect for all the Europe-TLV LY flights and all LY codes on AA flights remain as before.

According to Cranky Flyer's blog, this has to do with the fact that the Israeli version of the FAA doesn't require a certain safety check or series of them (wish I could be more specific, but I'm not sure exactly which checks are involved) as frequently as is required by the FAA. It has nothing to do with specific airlines, and in fact, it is quite possible that checks are being done with more regularity than the Israeli policy dictates. The consequence to El Al is that, as long as Israeli aviation remains downgraded, it cannot expand service to the US. It can and will, however, maintain current service levels.

I like to think and hope that this is simply bureaurcatic, not political, and that Israel will be restored to its previous status as soon as possible.

According to Cranky Flyer's blog, this has to do with the fact that the Israeli version of the FAA doesn't require a certain safety check or series of them (wish I could be more specific, but I'm not sure exactly which checks are involved) as frequently as is required by the FAA.

...


I like to think and hope that this is simply bureaurcatic, not political, and that Israel will be restored to its previous status as soon as possible.

The Israeli version of the FAA virtually does not exist. This is what the story is all about. It is not politics but a real issue and it is great that the Americans have put politics aside and issued this warning to the Israeli authorities.

Now, would someone please do the same to the Israeli education department, infrastructure department (water etc) and other govt departments ... :)

In any case, it is a big shame for Israel to be on the same list as "third world" or poor countries such as Zimbabwe, Honduras, Bulgaria or Haiti... A multi billion $ new terminal has been built, but the safety situation of the airport is just shameful.....

The Israeli version of the FAA is called the "Israel Civil Aviation Authority" and, believe me, there are plenty of HEAVILY PAID functionaries "working" for the ICAA. And even though their work seems indeed to be "virtual", their salaries are not.....

For what it's worth: I've got Israel tix for summer booked, via AA miles on LY ticket stock. I called the AA ExecPlat desk to see if there would be any impact; the rep told me that AA had been assured that this would be resolved in a few weeks, max, and that in the meantime they could still book travel on LY tickets and credit it later. I wouldn't count on that, but at least AA is saying nice things.

The Israeli version of the FAA virtually does not exist. This is what the story is all about. It is not politics but a real issue and it is great that the Americans have put politics aside and issued this warning to the Israeli authorities.

Now, would someone please do the same to the Israeli education department, infrastructure department (water etc) and other govt departments ... :)

In any case, it is a big shame for Israel to be on the same list as "third world" or poor countries such as Zimbabwe, Honduras, Bulgaria or Haiti... A multi billion $ new terminal has been built, but the safety situation of the airport is just shameful.....

The Israeli version of the FAA is called the "Israel Civil Aviation Authority" and, believe me, there are plenty of HEAVILY PAID functionaries "working" for the ICAA. And even though their work seems indeed to be "virtual", their salaries are not.....

It is with sad regret that I agree with the above posters, although more so with Apirchik than EL-AL 1971. The problem is not restricted to aviation authorities but is epidemic throughout the Israeli bureaucracy.

I like to think and hope that this is simply bureaurcatic, not political, and that Israel will be restored to its previous status as soon as possible.

According to YNET (http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3977999,00.html) the transport minister seems to be trying to finally do something about it.

There are currently major drills being carried out at TLV, and he said that he hopes that within a year to have a new body in charge saftey Etc.

Arkia's CEO has praised the move to change the current system which he claims wasn't operated correctly, and caused them not to be able to compete properly with other airlines.

Hope they are successful!

According to YNET (http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3977999,00.html) the transport minister seems to be trying to finally do something about it.

There are currently major drills being carried out at TLV, and he said that he hopes that within a year to have a new body in charge saftey Etc.

Arkia's CEO has praised the move to change the current system which he claims wasn't operated correctly, and caused them not to be able to compete properly with other airlines.

Hope they are successful!

Don't hold your breath. Seems like show and tell for the Homeland Security conference.

According to YNET (http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3977999,00.html) the transport minister seems to be trying to finally do something about it.

There are currently major drills being carried out at TLV, and he said that he hopes that within a year to have a new body in charge saftey Etc.

Arkia's CEO has praised the move to change the current system which he claims wasn't operated correctly, and caused them not to be able to compete properly with other airlines.

Hope they are successful!

They constantly run drills though. What makes Katz any different?

They constantly run drills though. What makes Katz any different?

I'ts not the drills, it's the statement.

I'ts not the drills, it's the statement.

Missed that before. This security agency, would it be a part of the Transportation Ministry or the Public Security Ministry? And what about the existing security? Is security at the airports and airlines just a hodgepodge? How would a new one solve the problems?

s security at the airports and airlines just a hodgepodge?

Some is, some isn't, I guess that is a hodgepodge.

IATA head slams Israel’s failure to upgrade air safety rank (http://www.jpost.com/Business/BusinessNews/Article.aspx?id=194762)
At least Bisignani recognizes the ridiculousness of this. Hopefully Katz will take more initiative now to fix the problem.

On a couple of side notes:

When did Ovda close to commercial traffic?
Barak will never consent, nor should he, to allowing commercial flights landing at IAF bases. Israel should look to expanding Haifa's airport, or the one by Be'er Sheva, or, what I want to really see, new airport by Eilat, and close ETH! But they need a new reliever airport; not one out of the country!

Haifa would cost a fortune to expand.

On the other hand, RPN (Rosh Pina) is in an inexpensive area and could be expanded easily. Personally, I think that Rosh Pina should be Israel's main airport and TLV the back up.

Of course, that might have something to do with the fact that I live only 30 kilometers from Rosh Pina. :D

Haifa would cost a fortune to expand.

On the other hand, RPN (Rosh Pina) is in an inexpensive area and could be expanded easily. Personally, I think that Rosh Pina should be Israel's main airport and TLV the back up.

Of course, that might have something to do with the fact that I live only 30 kilometers from Rosh Pina. :D

How much would HFA cost to expand, versus building or expanding other existing airports? As for RPN, it's too far off. Even HFA is far north, but it's a major city. Rosh Pina is north and then some by the top of the Kinneret.

jc, you near a hotel called Kinar?

Rosh Pina is north and then some by the top of the Kinneret.



For me, Rosh Pina is south. Going north the only place I reach is Lebanon.

For me, Rosh Pina is south. Going north the only place I reach is Lebanon.

What's transportation from there like? How far to Kiryat Shmona or Safed?

What's transportation from there like? How far to Kiryat Shmona or Safed?

Kiryat Shemona is 30 kilometers away. Safed is 20. There is practically no public transportation at all (two buses a day to Safed).

Kiryat Shemona is 30 kilometers away. Safed is 20. There is practically no public transportation at all (two buses a day to Safed).

so trempim?

so trempim?

For younger people, yes. For the rest of us, driving.

IATA head slams Israel’s failure to upgrade air safety rank (http://www.jpost.com/Business/BusinessNews/Article.aspx?id=194762)
At least Bisignani recognizes the ridiculousness of this. Hopefully Katz will take more initiative now to fix the problem.

On a couple of side notes:

When did Ovda close to commercial traffic?
Barak will never consent, nor should he, to allowing commercial flights landing at IAF bases. Israel should look to expanding Haifa's airport, or the one by Be'er Sheva, or, what I want to really see, new airport by Eilat, and close ETH! But they need a new reliever airport; not one out of the country!


Quote from Haaretz (http://www.haaretz.com/misc/breaking-news) breaking news today:
After fog grounds planes at Ben Gurion, ministry calls for Haifa airport expansion (Israel Radio)

Quote from Haaretz (http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/thousands-affected-as-heavy-fog-engulfs-ben-gurion-airport-1.324988) today:
Dror Gorelick, El Al's chief pilot, criticized the chaos caused by the heavy fog and poor visibility.

"It's a scandal that Israel does not have an alternative airport in its territory," Gorelick told Haaretz.

According to Gorelick, El Al asked that the Ovda Airport in the Negev be opened for planes to land at but the request was denied. Ovda had been used until recently as an alternative landing site to Ben-Gurion.

A representative of the airport authorities said that the new airport set to be built at Timna about 20 kilometers north of Eilat could serve as an alternative landing site in the future.

The Timna Airport is still in the planning stages and won't be built for several years.

Wonderful. I live on the northern tip of Israel. A bus ride from Timna to my house would take much longer than a flight from Milan to Israel. :td:

Wonderful. I live on the northern tip of Israel. A bus ride from Timna to my house would take much longer than a flight from Milan to Israel. :td:

It won't replace TLV, it will be a alternative when there is fog Etc. You would rather be in Eilat than being locked up in Jordan or stuck in Cyprus for hours and hours.

Please correct your post, and put your thumb facing up!

You would rather be in Eilat than being locked up in Jordan or stuck in Cyprus for hours and hours.

Please correct your post, and put your thumb facing up!

Eilat is incredibly hot for much of the year. Given the choice, I will take Cyprus every time.

It won't replace TLV, it will be a alternative when there is fog Etc. You would rather be in Eilat than being locked up in Jordan or stuck in Cyprus for hours and hours.

Please correct your post, and put your thumb facing up!

:D That Timna airport will NEVER be done. And that shouldn't be the reliever airport. You need one closer to TLV. That should act as an additional international airport in the country, but work should be done on a number of options: expanding Haifa, expanding Be'er Sheva, they had even discussed building a new island airport (though not a good idea IMHO)...

they had even discussed building a new island airport (though not a good idea IMHO)...

Which Island does Israel have?

:D That Timna airport will NEVER be done. And that shouldn't be the reliever airport. You need one closer to TLV. That should act as an additional international airport in the country, but work should be done on a number of options: expanding Haifa, expanding Be'er Sheva, they had even discussed building a new island airport (though not a good idea IMHO)...

Pardon me, but if anything, its high time that we get an airport in Jerusalem. Its the capital city for crying out loud, with no airport!!! Where in the world is there a major city with no airport?!? Its time to build a strip somewhere in Jerusalem, obviously for domestic traffic, and just have the runway long enough and a reasonable number of parking stalls to enable its use as a backup for TLV.

n me, but if anything, its high time that we get an airport in Jerusalem

http://gc.kls2.com/airport/JRS its there.

Doesn't LLBG have ILS? Why should fog prevent them from using it?

I don't see much wrong with using LCA. VDA also should be usable, I remember CO used it when there were fuel problems @ TLV, the hopped from TLV to VDA, refueled and departed.

Which Island does Israel have?

They don't have one. The plan was (is?) to make an artificial island off the coast, I believe by Haifa, and build the airport on that, similar to Kanasi in Japan.

Pardon me, but if anything, its high time that we get an airport in Jerusalem. Its the capital city for crying out loud, with no airport!!! Where in the world is there a major city with no airport?!? Its time to build a strip somewhere in Jerusalem, obviously for domestic traffic, and just have the runway long enough and a reasonable number of parking stalls to enable its use as a backup for TLV.

There used to be one by Atarot. There's no room for it. If you say it'll be for domestic traffic only, then that could be heavily negated by the high-speed train being built there. It's close enough to TLV that there really isn't a need for it's domestic airport. There had been talks of reopening Atarot to make it the official state airport, have official government trips leave from there, state guests land there... But eventually, Atarot was re-zoned by Nir Barkat to be made into a high-tech park.

http://gc.kls2.com/airport/JRS its there.

Doesn't LLBG have ILS? Why should fog prevent them from using it?

I don't see much wrong with using LCA. VDA also should be usable, I remember CO used it when there were fuel problems @ TLV, the hopped from TLV to VDA, refueled and departed.

Atarot doesn't exist anymore.

They do, but the fog was extremely intense

LCA is in another country which complicates matters for then connecting pax to Israel, and it's also not connected by land. At least an airport here, buses (and eventually trains) could connect people to where they need to get to. VDA still is to an extend, but it's too heavy sometimes with IAF aircraft.

Haifa would cost a fortune to expand.

On the other hand, RPN (Rosh Pina) is in an inexpensive area and could be expanded easily. Personally, I think that Rosh Pina should be Israel's main airport and TLV the back up.

Of course, that might have something to do with the fact that I live only 30 kilometers from Rosh Pina. :D

As you know, the people in Holon and other surronding areas to Ben Gurion would diasagree about having an airport near home.....The grass is always greener...

But eventually, Atarot was re-zoned by Nir Barkat to be made into a high-tech park.

A much better use than a mostly-redundant airport. TLV is actually very accessible by rail, the rail connection between Haifa and TLV is easier and faster than SFO to Berkeley. Once the train to Jerusalem is done, it'll be fast and easy to get there too... if only it would run on shabbat then it'd be perfect.

As I've said before, it would be best to increase integration between Israrail and the airport, by having CUTE-check in Kiosks and some of the security screening and baggage check doable at Jerusalem, Tel aviv and Haifa (a la HKG & Airport Express). Since one of the major difficulties of TLV itself is the lack of check-in space.

A much better use than a mostly-redundant airport. TLV is actually very accessible by rail, the rail connection between Haifa and TLV is easier and faster than SFO to Berkeley. Once the train to Jerusalem is done, it'll be fast and easy to get there too... if only it would run on shabbat then it'd be perfect.

As I've said before, it would be best to increase integration between Israrail and the airport, by having CUTE-check in Kiosks and some of the security screening and baggage check doable at Jerusalem, Tel aviv and Haifa (a la HKG & Airport Express). Since one of the major difficulties of TLV itself is the lack of check-in space.

I agree 1000%. As for the train running on Shabbat, no comment from me on that.

But TLV is very accessible, and I was talking to a couple of high-ups in Israel Rail. I also think there should be more connections between the train and flights. One problem is that the trains are sometimes the smaller ones as opposed to the double-decker ones, and hopefully that'll change. There's also possibilities that it'll connect to a second route that will head to directly to Jerusalem, bypassing Modiin, though that's unlikely.

What I said that friends found interesting was too possibly code-share (in essence, even if not semantically) with airlines, to streamline connections to different places on the ever-expanding Israel Rail network. Possible problem I foresee is LY completely hijacking that.

As I've said before, it would be best to increase integration between Israrail and the airport, by having CUTE-check in Kiosks and some of the security screening and baggage check doable at Jerusalem, Tel aviv and Haifa (a la HKG & Airport Express). Since one of the major difficulties of TLV itself is the lack of check-in space.

Does the ELAL check in facility in Tel Aviv still exist?
I somehow beleive that it dosen't, if so why did it close?

Does the ELAL check in facility in Tel Aviv still exist?
I somehow beleive that it dosen't, if so why did it close?

Where in Tel Aviv? If you're referring to the train stations, I've never seen one in any of them or by Tachana Merkazit Hachadasha.

Where in Tel Aviv? If you're referring to the train stations, I've never seen one in any of them or by Tachana Merkazit Hachadasha.

There used to be somewhere in TLV, I used it once approx. 8 years ago, I think it was near some train station.

There used to be somewhere in TLV, I used it once approx. 8 years ago, I think it was near some train station.

Yes, but it was closed about the same time that the new terminal was opened.

It was not, incidentally, for El Al alone. Air France, Alitalia, and a few other airlines used it. Some other airlines had an early check-in station in the Dan Panorama hotel.

This would actually be neat; for LY to introduce check-in counters by major train stations, or even major bus stations!

but the train, unlike the bus could offer an integrated solution.

the early check-in facility was located at the Arlozorov station, but it wasn't PART of the station; they did the security check and baggage check there, you got your boarding passes. But you had to do it the day before your flight, and I think it was only long haul flights.

What they need to do is have a true check-in facility just like HKG. Arrive at the TRAIN station flight-3 hours, you buy your train ticket, security check, they check your luggage, give you a BP, lounge pass if applicable and you're on your way.

As we all know, TLV itself is seriously space-constrained for check-in. This would alleviate that problem a lot, and encourage the use of the train. The airlines wouldn't need much of a presence there. Since most of the non-LY airlines use swissport people, they could have 1-2 agents at the stations to help with issues, otherwise a bunch of common-use kiosks should do the trick. Haifa Merkaz, Hof Hacarmel, Arlozorov, Azrieli, Modi'in and Jerusalem.

So how would it work exactly? Let's take someone traveling from Ashkelon, one of the larger train stations. However, there's no direct service to Natbag; one needs to transfer at Haganah. I go there to check-in. Where would I get my boarding pass? Who would take my luggage and when? Would I have to personally transfer it to the next train in Tel Aviv?
Also, you mention security check. How would that work? The security at the airport is different. For example, I, as a soldier, have security clearance at all train stations, and therefore don't need to wait on lines. Not the case at the airport...

In the past, once you checked in your baggage anywhere in the country that was the last you saw it until you picked it up at your destination.

They used to offer this service at RPN, a short distance from my house. I would check it in the day before my flight and, for the very small price (I think it was 15 shekels) I didn't have to lug it with me to TLV and avoided the much-longer security lines there.

When I arrived at the airport, I already had my boarding pass and merely went to Passport Control.

In the past, once you checked in your baggage anywhere in the country that was the last you saw it until you picked it up at your destination.

They used to offer this service at RPN, a short distance from my house. I would check it in the day before my flight and, for the very small price (I think it was 15 shekels) I didn't have to lug it with me to TLV and avoided the much-longer security lines there.

When I arrived at the airport, I already had my boarding pass and merely went to Passport Control.

But that's an airport, where the luggage is presumably handed over to agents who take it to the other airport. In my scenario, you're talking about the luggage transferring trains. Who's going to transfer it from one train to another. Would LY have agents, and more so, would foreign airlines have agents on the train?

But that's an airport, where the luggage is presumably handed over to agents who take it to the other airport. In my scenario, you're talking about the luggage transferring trains. Who's going to transfer it from one train to another. Would LY have agents, and more so, would foreign airlines have agents on the train?

It was the same at the early check-in areas in Tel Aviv and Haifa. The bags were not sent by air but rather by truck. One truck load went out each day from RPN -- I imagine there may have been more trucks from Tel Aviv.

In RPN, the check in was handled by Arkia for all airlines which wanted to participate. In Tel Aviv, LY handled its own check in but the other airlines used a local service.

The security interviews, in all cases, were done by Airport Authority agents.

I very much doubt that under any circumstances the bags would go by train. If the old program is any guide, no matter where you checked in the bags would be kept in a safe storage area until they were picked up by truck and taken to TLV.

It was the same at the early check-in areas in Tel Aviv and Haifa. The bags were not sent by air but rather by truck. One truck load went out each day from RPN -- I imagine there may have been more trucks from Tel Aviv.

In RPN, the check in was handled by Arkia for all airlines which wanted to participate. In Tel Aviv, LY handled its own check in but the other airlines used a local service.

The security interviews, in all cases, were done by Airport Authority agents.

I very much doubt that under any circumstances the bags would go by train. If the old program is any guide, no matter where you checked in the bags would be kept in a safe storage area until they were picked up by truck and taken to TLV.

I see. I'm still not sure I understand the security portion. Let me know if I got it more or less: the outer layers of security (interview...) would be conducted by check-in at the train station, and then I'd get my boarding pass and go, upon arrival at Natbag, straight to the regular security check-point?

Also, at check-in, they'd take my luggage and hand me my boarding pass. But in Natbag, they also screen the bags right there. Would they screen them at the train station?

I see. I'm still not sure I understand the security portion. Let me know if I got it more or less: the outer layers of security (interview...) would be conducted by check-in at the train station, and then I'd get my boarding pass and go, upon arrival at Natbag, straight to the regular security check-point?

Also, at check-in, they'd take my luggage and hand me my boarding pass. But in Natbag, they also screen the bags right there. Would they screen them at the train station?

Yes, you would go to the regular security check point. No, they would not screen your bags at the train station. They would screen them at TLV and, if necessary, open them without you being present.

o how would it work exactly? Let's take someone traveling from Ashkelon

Well, it wouldn't from Ashkelon. We're not talking about a situation where you have everything reconfigured, rather, the trunk line (Nahariya-Haifa-Tel Aviv-LLBG-Jerusalem), would have some stations equipped. And the trains could have a cargo area that would be loaded as appropriate.

Presumably, if you wanted to schlep from Ashkelon, or other unequipped stations, you'd from there to Azrieli, you could just transfer trains or you could also drop your bags in that station. I presume the trucking operation was supported by the user fee (wasn't it like $25 or something like that?). This sort of operation wouldn't have a fee, but would be a joint operation by IAA and Israrail.

Also, at check-in, they'd take my luggage and hand me my boarding pass. But in Natbag, they also screen the bags right there. Would they screen them at the train station?

in the scenario I'd envision, they'd probably have a separate area where they do the CTX and that stuff @ Natbag (but since it doesn't have to be actually in the check-in hall, they can do it in an underground/off to the side area that doesn't have to be all fancy schmancy ($$$).

Yes, you would go to the regular security check point. No, they would not screen your bags at the train station. They would screen them at TLV and, if necessary, open them without you being present.

I've sometimes had checked luggage flagged after the screening, but before checking them. For innocuous items, such as advil, epi-pen, and hard drive. I've then been asked to simply identify the items, and that was it. Considering they'd be screened outside my presence, how would they handle that?

I think it was only long haul flights.

I used it for a London flight, (or perhaps that's considered long haul).

but the train, unlike the bus could offer an integrated solution.

the early check-in facility was located at the Arlozorov station, but it wasn't PART of the station; they did the security check and baggage check there, you got your boarding passes. But you had to do it the day before your flight, and I think it was only long haul flights.

What they need to do is have a true check-in facility just like HKG. Arrive at the TRAIN station flight-3 hours, you buy your train ticket, security check, they check your luggage, give you a BP, lounge pass if applicable and you're on your way.

As we all know, TLV itself is seriously space-constrained for check-in. This would alleviate that problem a lot, and encourage the use of the train. The airlines wouldn't need much of a presence there. Since most of the non-LY airlines use swissport people, they could have 1-2 agents at the stations to help with issues, otherwise a bunch of common-use kiosks should do the trick. Haifa Merkaz, Hof Hacarmel, Arlozorov, Azrieli, Modi'in and Jerusalem.

(Bolding mine) That's annoying. Why only the day before. Part of the convenience is checking-in along the way, and then continuing to the airport, all checked-in with no luggage.

I used it for a London flight, (or perhaps that's considered long haul).

I would imagine London is long haul. Short haul probably anything on a 737 and perhaps 757 as well; once you're going wide-body, that's gotta be long haul.

(Bolding mine) That's annoying. Why only the day before. Part of the convenience is checking-in along the way, and then continuing to the airport, all checked-in with no luggage.

The benefit was that you checked in a day in advance, and could arrive at the airport much later, it was especially usefull for morning departures, as it gained you an extra hour of sleep.

The benefit was that you checked in a day in advance, and could arrive at the airport much later, it was especially usefull for morning departures, as it gained you an extra hour of sleep.

Doesn't much help people visiting Israel though, who want to maximize their time here.

(Bolding mine) That's annoying. Why only the day before. Part of the convenience is checking-in along the way, and then continuing to the airport, all checked-in with no luggage.


Well, since it had nothing to do with the train itself, they just did the checks there and had the bags trucked in. You can't rely on that sort of thing 3 hours before your flight (where you usually can with a train).

It was basically for people flying out at 6-7a and didn't want to get up at 2A.
Of course, whenever I have flights leaving between 4 and 7a, I figure its better just to go out all night, then schlep to the airport and sleep on the plane.

I would imagine London is long haul. Short haul probably anything on a 737 and perhaps 757 as well; once you're going wide-body, that's gotta be long haul.

Wide-body is not per definition for long-haul.

You can find plenty of short-haul routes with mainly wide-body jets being featured. CPT-JNB is usually 342, 343 and 346.
DXB-JEDD uses 388.

Wide-body is not per definition for long-haul.

You can find plenty of short-haul routes with mainly wide-body jets being featured. CPT-JNB is usually 342, 343 and 346.
DXB-JEDD uses 388.

You're correct. But with LY, most of their widebody is for long haul, at least what they consider to be. With LY, you can really break things down to 2 categories: long and short (as opposed to mid, short-mid...)

According to GCM, TLV-LHR is 2,233 miles, or 4 hrs and 38 minutes. IMHO, that's well short of long-haul and is well within the range of next-gen 737s.

Anyway, looks like I'll be back in Israel in February. I'm tacking a few days in Jerusalem onto a trip to IST, so I'll most likely be flying TK to and from TLV. I've never flown anything but LY into Israel, so this will be a somewhat new experience. I wonder if immigration will feel any tighter coming in on a foreign airline.

You're correct. But with LY, most of their widebody is for long haul, at least what they consider to be. With LY, you can really break things down to 2 categories: long and short (as opposed to mid, short-mid...)

On most airlines worldwide the widebody fleet is mainly meant for long haul but still on rotation they can do short-haul flights as well. AF do CDG-LHR once daily on an A380. This does not mean they have an A380 dedicated for the route - just instead of staying grounded in CDG for 3-4 hours it does a short hop to LHR. The same applies here.

AF do CDG-LHR once daily on an A380. This does not mean they have an A380 dedicated for the route - just instead of staying grounded in CDG for 3-4 hours it does a short hop to LHR. The same applies here.

That's long history, that was done for a short period, I beleive with the benefit of training crew.

According to GCM, TLV-LHR is 2,233 miles, or 4 hrs and 38 minutes. IMHO, that's well short of long-haul and is well within the range of next-gen 737s.

Anyway, looks like I'll be back in Israel in February. I'm tacking a few days in Jerusalem onto a trip to IST, so I'll most likely be flying TK to and from TLV. I've never flown anything but LY into Israel, so this will be a somewhat new experience. I wonder if immigration will feel any tighter coming in on a foreign airline.

Having flown numerous airlines into TLV, I can safely say that everything will be the same. People may not clap upon landing, but Passport Control and Customs are the exact same. I'm not sure they even know (or care) what carrier you came in on.

I wonder if immigration will feel any tighter coming in on a foreign airline.

No, carrier dosn' matter, rather citizenship, port of embarkation and purpose of visit to israel.

No, carrier dosn' matter, rather citizenship, port of embarkation and purpose of visit to israel.

That's not exactly right. On El Al those matters are taken care of before you get on the flight. If you take another carrier into Israel, Security will have some information about you before you arrive and if it is not satisfied you will be called aside and interviewed as you get off the plane -- and before you get to Immigration.

I have seen this happen more than once. Please do not ask me how Security knows about you as I don't have the slightest idea.