JetBlue TrueBlue - Advice requested--Northwest weather

My family is booked on tonight's SEA-BOS redeye flight. We're pretty determined to get to the East Coast, so I'm willing to get to the airport if there's any chance the flight will actually get out. I don't want to fight through the snow to the airport at 9pm only to find that the flight has already been cancelled because they use the airplane that's here to fly to JFK instead of BOS like last night...

So... Is there any decent source of additional information beyond re-checking the normal flight status page? Is there any way to know when/if B6 will add an extra flight or two to handle some/all of the people who won't otherwise have a seat for the rest of this week?

So far it looks like the plane is on time, but if you get cancelled make sure you know of all the different ways to get to BOS from SEA . Besides the non stops you could go thru Long Beach or JFK or Long Beach and IAD .
Sometimes creative routings may help get you there sooner (also look at the weather map to see where the bad weather is ) . You may need to think creatively inorder to get to BOS (within a day of your desired departure). Be polite to the gate agents or the res people and they can help you.

man talk about havoc on both coasts. You're gonna be up for a tough one tonight. you obviously know that there's a big snow event here in SEA which is quite rare so it's causing a lot of delays.


As long as the planes are on their way you'll get there eventually because the plane coming from BOS usually turns around and goes back right away..even with the same crew! I don't know about tonight however.

Just checking flightview.com now and says that 497 BOS-SEA has been or is currently being diverted to Spokane (GEG)?? I'm not sure that's a better choice than Seattle now because they've got more snow than we do!

Also if your flight gets canceled you can try to get routed through SAN to get to BOS tomorrow.

Good luck

Update of West coast(SEA, PDX): 10:18PST Looks like they've changed the diversion of 497 to SLC instead of Spokane which makes much more sense.
OP's Flight 498 SEA-BOS Canceled due to inbound diversion to SLC.
JFK-SEA Finally Canceled.
SEA-JFK 86 Canceled
JFK-PDX Canceled.

They're going to have a heck of time getting these people where they need to go...especially with one flight a day! SEA-BOS cancelled two days in a row!

Any ideas on how to get to Spokane from Seattle? All flights are cancelled and looks like no flights till Monday. 10 guys trying to get home from basketball game.

Any ideas on how to get to Spokane from Seattle? All flights are cancelled and looks like no flights till Monday. 10 guys trying to get home from basketball game.

this should be poseted in the west coast forum. but since it's here..i would probably say that you're going to be stuck there till flights are able to get in and out. Driving is also a no go because a part of the pass is closed at the moment. It's nasty out here in the greater NW right now!

OP's Flight 498 SEA-BOS Canceled due to inbound diversion to SLC.

They're going to have a heck of time getting these people where they need to go...especially with one flight a day! SEA-BOS cancelled two days in a row!

At the airport, they told us that the cancellation was because of the weather, not lack of aircraft... I actually talked to the pilot who was supposed to fly 86 to JFK, and he said the problem was that with a slippery runway, the allowed maximum sidewind has to be lowered, so it was just too windy to safely take off. (It also sounded like they couldn't wait it out due to crew rest requirements; I'm not sure why in these cases they don't have the pilot stay in bed until midnight so that he can fly the plane at 5am if that's when it's possible, but whatever.)

So anyway, they promised us that they're working hard to add an extra flight tomorrow or the next day, and bringing up the spare from LGB, but we'll just have to see. Looking forward to my third attempt...

So anyway, they promised us that they're working hard to add an extra flight tomorrow or the next day, and bringing up the spare from LGB, but we'll just have to see. Looking forward to my third attempt...

We got rebooked onto a newly created 1pm flight 4098 from SEA-BOS, just checked in and only 1/4 of the seats show full, but I'm guessing that's just because the people camped at the airport haven't woken up yet.

Weather has calmed down here, so we'll see...

We got rebooked onto a newly created 1pm flight 4098 from SEA-BOS, just checked in and only 1/4 of the seats show full, but I'm guessing that's just because the people camped at the airport haven't woken up yet.

Weather has calmed down here, so we'll see...

I'm guessing that plane is coming from SLC because that's where 497 diverted to last night. This is gonna be a big challenge for Seattle Ops for B6 in the next few days. I use to work there so I know exactly how crazy things can get once a flight gets canceled 3 flights canceled in 2 days. Looks like 86 couldn't get out either last night! At least now they have the LGB, SAN flights which they can attempt to book people on if there's space. While I was there it was only the two flights p/day and only 10 staff! so we would be there all night!

Looks like all Jetblue flights in into and out of SEA have today have been canceled! with exception to the SAN flight which left this morning. What a big mess!

It's going to take a LONG time for this to get back to normal! SEA-BOS 3 days canceled and counting. We're suppose to get better weather soon hopefully.

What a big mess!

Indeed. The frustrating part today is it seems like the issue was that they're out of "type 4 de-icing fluid", whatever that is. Back to hoping for extra flights tomorrow...

Indeed. The frustrating part today is it seems like the issue was that they're out of "type 4 de-icing fluid", whatever that is. Back to hoping for extra flights tomorrow...

That is the stuff that prevents you from crashing on takeoff due to ice on the lift surfaces. Probably a good idea to make sure you've got it before trying to take off. ;)

That strikes me as an airport issue more than a carrier issue. Were other carriers canceling flights for the same reason?

That strikes me as an airport issue more than a carrier issue. Were other carriers canceling flights for the same reason?

Yes, B6 was saying it was an airport problem, but it appears some carriers have their own supplies and weren't affected, or perhaps I was misunderstanding.

Also I've heard that there are trucks trying to bring more de-icing fluid, but they can't get over the pass on I-90 because of the snow....

That is the stuff that prevents you from crashing on takeoff due to ice on the lift surfaces. Probably a good idea to make sure you've got it before trying to take off. ;)

That strikes me as an airport issue more than a carrier issue. Were other carriers canceling flights for the same reason?

yup it's been an issue since the beginning of the storm...no decier because the company the port gets it from in canada went on strike. they say that they'll get some more tomorrow. the weather hasnt been cooperating either. heavy snow at times and we're not use to this much at one time. So add those two together it's not a pretty story.

Numerous airlines have suspended all flights in and out of Seattle since this afternoon including Alaska which has the most flights in/out of here.

still hoping for news about an extra section to BOS or JFK today or tomorrow... also hoping that tonight's flights make it out, even though I'll be frustrated that I'm not on them, because at least that will mean things are getting closer to normal.

The "weather alert" link from the jetblue.com page is completely blank at the moment... I'd feel much better if I had some information about what steps are being taken to handle the backlog of people stuck here.

looks like 497 BOS-SEA canceled tonight already. That flight usually turns and goes to JFK. which means that SEA-JFK is gone tonight. the flight from LGB which turns and goes to BOS looks like it's going to operate tonight but an hour late...which is a good sign for your davidmay.
The weather looks like it's letting up a bit today!

What is Jetblue doing for the customer's in this situation? doesnt look like a travel alert/waiver has been issued even though i would definitely consider this to be a major disruption in travel. 4 days in a row SEA-BOS canceled and counting! It's going to take more than one shuttle flight to get everyone out.

What is Jetblue doing for the customer's in this situation? doesnt look like a travel alert/waiver has been issued even though i would definitely consider this to be a major disruption in travel. 4 days in a row SEA-BOS canceled and counting! It's going to take more than one shuttle flight to get everyone out.

They're definitely letting people rebook without fees, the problem is that everything through the 25th is full.

I was on the 11:30pm on the 19th, then the 11:30pm on the 20th, then the extra 1pm added yesterday (21st), all canceled. After yesterday's extra flight canceled, the best reservation I could get was for the 25th, so if tonight's flight 498 gets to Boston, I probably won't be on it. (could go wait in line again standby at the airport, but I don't think I can take the family back for a fourth straight day without a little more hope of getting on.)

apparently we're 15th out of 300+ groups on the "displaced people list", so still hoping for an extra section tomorrow, since it looks like there won't be any today.

looks like 497 BOS-SEA canceled tonight already. That flight usually turns and goes to JFK. which means that SEA-JFK is gone tonight.

I think that they have a plane planned for JFK--I was at the airport yesterday at 2pm when they sent two crews home for the day because their planes weren't going anywhere... so it's clearly not a "usually" sort of day. Probably it's the other way around, i.e. 497 got canceled because the plane they want to fly to JFK is already in Seattle.

apparently we're 15th out of 300+ groups on the "displaced people list", so still hoping for an extra section tomorrow, since it looks like there won't be any today.

I'm not sure that they have the aircraft available to run an extra transcon r/t. I know that they've cut capacity significantly so there theoretically are planes grounded, but I don't know if those can be put back into service right away or not. Plus, there isn't a lot of financial motivation for them to do it. Lots of PR to gain, but it costs real money to fly the flight versus just refunding folks money if they don't fly it. I wonder which way they come out ahead.

I'm not sure that they have the aircraft available to run an extra transcon r/t.

well, they at least tried to add one yesterday, so that gives me some hope that they're trying. obviously, perhaps they just added that flight because they had a plane they needed to get back to Boston that hadn't flown the night before...

Tuesday 23 December is supposed to be a good weather day until nightfall. That should help delivery of fresh suppliers of deicing fluid. (Each airline is responsible for sourcing its own supply of deicer, BTW.)

Runways are clear at SEA but Monday ops were as slim as 25% of normal, mainly because of the deicer shortage.

We expect more snow and/or freezing rain from Tuesday evening through Wednesday, so overnight ops (e.g. redeye departures) could be affected.

Virgin America has space available on tonights 940 flight to SFO (222 each).
B6 then has room on the 24th overnight flight to BOS via JFK. Unless they add an extra flight (it looks like the other airliners are sold out also). All I can say is good luck.

davidmay..were you finally able to get out to BOS??

davidmay..were you finally able to get out to BOS??

yes, we actually got to Boston at 2am, after a crazy sequence of events on Tuesday. Yesterday morning, I decided there really were no miracle pre-Christmas B6 extra sections coming, and I paid a ridiculous amount of money for the four available seats on AA's 11:55 am BOS-ORD flight (showing as delayed until 2pm at the time) continuing on AA ORD-BOS at 8:20am Wednesday. I also reserved seats on B6's ORD-BOS flight, scheduled for 6:55pm, but showing as delayed until 9pm.

Based on the scheduled times, there would have been 50 minutes to transfer at ORD, basically making it impossible to do it with 2 kids and three checked bags in tow, so I paid an extra $70 per B6 ticket to get a "refundable" fare. I was doing this as I was running out the door, so I made it a new reservation rather than a continuation of my old one.

After a crazy drive to the airport (local roads completely iced over, I-5 completely bare, requiring removing snow chains at the on-ramp) to get to the airport in time to pay for my AA ticket 30 minutes before its originally scheduled departure, we boarded that plane at 2:20, taxied out to the runway, and came to a stop. The pilot announced there was a ground hold at O'Hare and he'd update us in 45 minutes. After the longest 45 minutes of my life, during which I remembered why I try so hard to fly nonstop SEA-BOS during the winter, and fully assumed we'd be back in the Seatac terminal after another hour or two, we actually took off. We landed in ORD at 9:30, 3+ hours late in the end.

Called 1-800-Jetblue from the plane, found that 992 to Boston was currently leaving at 9:50pm, basically gave up hope. Got off plane at 9:50, found that the AA ORD-BOS 10pm flight we'd signed up to standby on had been cancelled, called Jetblue again, 992 listed as leaving at 10pm. Jetblue rep on phone confirms the 10pm time the automated system has given me, and tells me that if I cancel my "refundable" reservation after the 10pm currently listed departure, I can only get a credit rather than an actual refund. I almost decide to cancel at that point, but decide given how much else I've spent today, like the hotel room at ORD I already paid for, that it's not a big deal.)

Left family to collect bags and went to try to find the JetBlue counter; luckily it's at Terminal 2, only perhaps 500 yards from AA baggage claim. (100 yards of which are outside, but the walkway is covered so the falling snow isn't such a problem.) There's an employee at the B6 counter who seems to be getting ready to go home, the display behind the counter is a manually-operated one which shows all flights as "delayed" but doesn't give any times. I'm in luck due to the misfortune of others: the ORD-JFK flight took so long to be de-iced that it's crew is no longer legal, and it is cancelled and going to return to the gate. She says they can't start boarding BOS passengers until that plane is unloaded, so I have another 30 minutes or so.

The on-line kiosk won't let me check in (computer basically thinks my flight has already left) so she has to check me in manually, and she can't/won't do that unless my wife is there to present her ID. Miraculously, bags have come by this point, only 15 minutes after leaving the plane, so I run back to Terminal 3, find family pulling bags toward me, turn around, we all run back to Terminal 2 checkin counter, show ID, sign something saying we're "voluntarily separating" from our bags, repack a few small gifts into carryons, run back to Terminal 3 (because Terminal 2 security is closed), almost run over the two people in line ahead of us there, forget that we have a bottle of water in our bag from the last flight, run back to Terminal 3 to the gate, and arrive at the gate at perhaps 11pm, just as the last ten people are patiently filing past the gate agent. My family comes puffing up behind just as I hand over our boarding passes.

Pilot announces that our flight time is 1:40, but it will be an hour or so until we make it to the runway. The runways look like they did on Sunday in Seattle when everything was canceled, a solid blanket of white, but I'm guessing ORD's supplies of de-icer fluid are more substantial than Seatac's, and indeed we're in the air an hour later, on the ground in BOS at 2am, in the car of a devoted relative at 2:30am on the way to Cape Cod.

I called to release our reservation on the Christmas night SEA-BOS redeye and get that ticket refunded; I suggested that they might refund the $1600 I paid for the ORD-BOS tickets rather than the $1500 I paid for SEA-BOS, but was told that wasn't possible. Maybe I'll argue about that later, but the $100 difference represents a very small fraction of the total trip cost at this point.

Lessons learned: it's a good thing to have rolling luggage and a family that enjoys watching the Amazing Race; I shouldn't expect B6 to add extra flights just because people have been delayed five days unless they happen to have planes out of position that need to get home anyway; I should consider paying extra for an airline with more flight options during the winter. (but unfortunately, as long as AS and B6 are the only nonstop options, that's a little hard.)

Glad you were able to make it home safely. I was thinking about suggesting people use Amtrak but then I saw on tv about people sleeping in the Chicago train station for 24 hours while waiting for the snowed out trains. Perhaps Santa Claus is right about his mode of traveling .

Perhaps the lesson learned is to not travel during winter times unless absolutely required (life and death situations).

In the summer you have thunderstorm related delays. I think the best mode of transportation is to drive.

Perhaps the lesson learned is to not travel during winter times unless absolutely required (life and death situations).

Is this for real? I hope not.

In the summer you have thunderstorm related delays. I think the best mode of transportation is to drive.

Yeah, because roads are always passable. And traveling 60 mph makes it easy to cover great distances. Or cross oceans. :rolleyes:

Perhaps the lesson learned is to not travel during winter times unless absolutely required (life and death situations).

In the summer you have thunderstorm related delays. I think the best mode of transportation is to drive.

Yeah, because roads are always passable. And traveling 60 mph makes it easy to cover great distances. Or cross oceans. :rolleyes:


I have had some great road trips and still set aside the extra time it takes to travel that way on occasion. There is also something great about waking up, after minimal effort and time, in a place far away from where you were. The book "Old Patagonian Express" by Paul Theroux is a great read and has a bit of commentary about different modes of travel, chiefly the old curmudgeon's take on how great train travel is when compared to an airplane. Happy trails to all, however you may go.

I shouldn't expect B6 to add extra flights just because people have been delayed five days unless they happen to have planes out of position that need to get home anyway; I should consider paying extra for an airline with more flight options during the winter. I agree with you. It's not that you shouldn't fly in the winter unless it's "life or death" ( :rolleyes: ); it's that you should protect yourself as much as you can against irregular ops and poor service recovery. JetBlue does not have the network capacity / robustness, or service recovery policy, to do anything out of the ordinary for people delayed for days at outstations like SEA. Make booking decisions accordingly.

you should protect yourself as much as you can against irregular ops and poor service recovery.

The problem is that flying AA through Chicago or NW through MSP isn't usually the best way to keep your trip from being disrupted! There have been many previous years when I've been quite happy to be flying nonstop over or around thunderstorms or snow in the center of the country.

The only other nonstop option SEA-BOS is Alaska flight 12, leaving at 8:50am... but getting my family of non-morning-people to the airport by 7am pretty much gives a 95% chance of a terrible travel day, versus perhaps a 1% chance of a Seattle snowstorm...

So unless NW or AA restores the nonstops they used to have, or VS decides they need an extra west coast hub, I'll probably make this same mistake again. I'll just have to hope that global climate change doesn't mean Seattle will have eight inches of snow on the ground every December!

(and even if it does, eventually the airport will install bigger de-icer tanks, I'd think.)

In this case I believe NW sent a 747 to pick up their passengers.

In this case I believe NW sent a 747 to pick up their passengers. I believe this is true. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe JetBlue is in a position (from a fleet / lift capacity standpoint) to dispatch any extra sections. Loads from cancelled flights are simply rolled into future scheduled flights. At this time of year with few open seats, if you're cancelled on JetBlue at an outstation, esp. west of the Mississippi, you might as well forget it. No 747 coming to rescue you.

If they had an extra plane they should have done a shuttle like service for the day to somewhere like LGB or OAK where they would have had more capacity to accomadate more paxs. Of course they would have had to cancel some flights to LGB to get slots

If they had an extra plane

I thought I had been told that there's normally an extra plane in LGB or somewhere on the West Coast... in general, I would have thought JetBlue could do better at resolving disrupted service in a place like Seattle that has relatively few flights than they could when a big storm knocks out JFK or BOS; obviously, they can't double the number of flights systemwide the day after a storm, but if they had doubled all flights to SEA for a day or two that would only represent 5% or so of their total traffic, and I would think they would have that much extra capacity.

Obviously, I don't really know how much spare capacity in planes, crews, staff, fuel, supplies, and so on that airlines maintain. I would assume that there's some margin in each of these categories, because you don't want to have to cancel a full day's flights if one plane has a problem, one pilot is sick, or one flight attendant has car trouble... So barring other problems happening at the same time, they should be able to put another plane in the air if they choose. (Of course, once they've sent the spare plane/crew off to SEA, then they're in trouble if somebody back at JFK is sick that day, I suppose!)

I guess I just assumed that JetBlue might be looking for an opportunity to combat a reputation for being unable to respond well in this type of situation; instead, it appears that they just decided things would work themselves out.

well good thing we don't get bad weather often and heavy traffic like the New York area does or else B6 operations would be screwed in Seattle or PDX. 1X a day..would become 0X during the winter. :D Good thing it's not a frequent occurrence..if it does happen though don't count on rescue planes like others have stated!

I believe that B6 does keep an extra plane on the west coast (I think in LGB) so that when one needs a repair they can replace it . It may have been easier to find the plane then to find the crew to fly it . (Especially when getting at the end of the month/quarter when pilots may be hitting their limit .

I believe that B6 does keep an extra plane on the west coast (I think in LGB) so that when one needs a repair they can replace it .

Ideally, this is the case. Unfortunately, utilization and other needs sometimes prevent a spare from being available, so this shouldn't be relied upon.

In short, we have senior leadership constantly reviewing our quite substandard ability to recover after an IROP, and trying to improve SYSOPS in particular. Unfortunately, although there has been some improvement we have a ways to go, no question. The airline absolutely has A320 airframes being under-utilized, but after a couple weeks of fairly constant scheduling disruptions we likely don't have the crews left to fly them. I really hope for the sake of our customers as well as our long-term survival our abilities and performance in this regard will get better quickly!

...we have senior leadership constantly reviewing our quite substandard ability to recover after an IROP... I appreciate your candor, which is not shared by your management, many of your co-workers and even some of your other customers. Believe it or not I am rooting for JetBlue to survive and thrive, but operational maturity, including better irrops response, is a prerequisite and B6 is not there yet.

Agreed. I very much want B6 to thrive as my livelihood is tied to it. I don't understand why many of my fellow crewmembers have such a hard time accepting legitimate criticism; isn't that how we ultimately improve?

We currently have a decent in-flight product with mostly motivated front-line employees delivering it, stretched over a very thin network with little capacity for IROP recovery/re-routing. I believe that model must change for us to be a reliable transportation provider going forward!

I am still not sure what Jetblue's trying do be . Do they just want to be a FLA-NY shuttle (aka a regional NE airline) , or are they trying to be a coast to coast airline ? BTW I read the Delta forum that someone got stuck in NY for 2 days trying to get to FLL so even on the legacy airlines you may get stuck in for days after snow storms . Of course the other lesson is don't change planes in NY unless you are prepared to stay the night.

I am still not sure what Jetblue's trying do be... I think JetBlue pretty clearly wants to be a cream-skimming premium national airline that can command higher fares for better inflight experience. The LGB foothold shows they do not think of themselves as an east coast corridor airline. I do not think they have the operational robustness to realize this proposition, though. As Aewanabe says the network is too thin and far-flung, crumples too quick in adverse circumstances, and takes too long to recover.

For one thing I think they try to serve too many stations west of the Mississippi -- 15 if I count right, almost all of them long, thin, slim-frequency sectors with almost no presence or marketing support at the outstation. B6 doesn't have the resources to compete in all those citys -- they have toes dipped everywhere in the west, but they make a real impact almost nowhere. I'd like to see 'em cut back to LGB, OAK, SEA and LAS and build up a presence.

When Southwest invades a new market it's like D-Day -- they mean to take the beach. When JetBlue opens a new market it's like a covert CIA operation. I've never understood the rational for that reticence.

I think they should have 5 or 6 flight between cities instead of 1 . Perhaps instead of the 1 daily transcons from Sea they should have 3 flights to Austin or LGB instead . I guess they are making money off of the the Sea-JFK and Sea-Bos routes but I wish they designed more robustness so I could them and trust I won't be delayed for 3 days if it rains or snows . They have plenty of flights to Florida so that part is fine.

I think they should have 5 or 6 flight between cities instead of 1 . Perhaps instead of the 1 daily transcons from Sea they should have 3 flights to Austin or LGB instead . I guess they are making money off of the the Sea-JFK and Sea-Bos routes but I wish they designed more robustness so I could them and trust I won't be delayed for 3 days if it rains or snows . They have plenty of flights to Florida so that part is fine.

Don't forget that the transcons cost ~2x the Florida flights to operate, and the demand for seats is lower. And the utilization of the planes is lower. Those factors make it a bit difficult to justify throwing 5x daily on SEA-JFK or SEA-BOS.

My GF just got a call from B6 that they cancelled her flight tomorrow morning from JFK to DEN. She's re-booked on the evening flight, but this comes just as the weather forecast is getting less and less severe, and may be just rain at JFK tomorrow morning. Is B6 so scared after the Valentines Day meltdown that they just cancel flights at the drop of the hat like this? Wouldn't it be better to try and get people out, and cancel tomorrow if they had to? It was strange because they offered to send her through Boston tomorrow morning instead, which left even earlier (worse snow predicted), but was not cancelled?

Could be a fleet positioning problem combined with a light load -- e.g. some aircraft are out of place because of weather, they know they're not going to recover by tomorrow, so they're cancelling the least-booked flights preemptively. Weather at other stations can affect ops at your station this way.

What you're experiencing is actually a better policy than the usual, which is that B6 insists everything's going to run on time until the moment of scheduled departure, at which point they break down and tell you your aircraft is actually grounded in Manila and offer to rebook you for a flight in 2017.

B6 so scared after the Valentines Day meltdown that they just cancel flights at the drop of the hat like this?

they break down and tell you your aircraft is actually grounded in Manila and offer to rebook you for a flight in 2017.

Even an extreme weather forecast can't match extremes like these.