JetBlue TrueBlue - Are headwinds a reasonable "weather" cancellation reason?

It isn't officially canceled yet on the customer site, but there is a discussion going on in another forum about B6 777 (BOS-LAS) being canceled today thanks to weather. It turns out that the jet stream is rather strong today and the snow in LAS has them concerned that a technical stop would be necessary to get the plane there.

Based on the timing of the flights if folks are alerted early enough they stand a chance on the JFK connections, but if B6 waits too long then those will not be available either.

So this morning I chatted with my brother, who is a pilot for B6. He said they CX his BOS-LAS flight today because they couldn't get all the way there w/o stopping for fuel due to the winds, and also the snow mess in LAS.

I'm kind of surpised by that, but I gotta take his word for it. I thought the A320 had plenty of range.

If it happens that this flight is officially canceled, it is quite likely that it will considered a weather cancellation, right? Is that reasonable?

BOS-LAS FLT 777 is still showing on time and has a crew listed and 150 customers scheduled to depart. Block time is scheduled at 6:11. Now the weather in LAS might cause some serious issues but I don't think we would cancel a flight because of headwinds. I don't think we've ever cancelled a flight because of headwinds. We always get a bad rap for having to fuel stop because of the winds.

BOS-LAS FLT 777 is still showing on time and has a crew listed and 150 customers scheduled to depart. Block time is scheduled at 6:11. Now the weather in LAS might cause some serious issues but I don't think we would cancel a flight because of headwinds. I don't think we've ever cancelled a flight because of headwinds. We always get a bad rap for having to fuel stop because of the winds.


Given that the block time on an earlier JFK-LAS flight is over 8 hours, I sense the 6:11 time is somewhat optimistic.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU711/history/20081218/2009Z/KJFK/KLAS

In answer to the original question: Headwinds would not be a reasonable WX if a technical stop was feasable and could be done without a crew timing out. I see no reason why one would automatically assume it would be considered a WX.

Looking at the winds aloft charts. Any westbound flight that is heading to CA, NV, AZ, TX is going to be heading right into the core of the jetstream. Winds are averaging 130kts at FL340.

If it happens that this flight is officially canceled, it is quite likely that it will considered a weather cancellation, right? Is that reasonable? It seems to me that if the a/c assigned to a nonstop route cannot make it without a tech stop, owing to headwinds or anything else, and a cancellation results, that is an operational canx, not a wx canx.

Flightaware says they're going to tank up in DEN along the way. Expecting a 1:40 delay on the arrival. I wonder if the aforementioned pilot knows that he was actually supposed to fly it. :eek:

Mute point. That flight went out on time, however the flight time has been extended by an additional 1:39.

Mute point. That flight went out on time, however the flight time has been extended by an additional 1:39.

And a stop in Denver.

Mute point. Speaking of which, I've always wished my TV remote had a moot button.

Communication from JBLU to passengers on this flight:
"Due to strong headwinds, we will make a stop in DEN to refuel. Expect 2 hour delay." Most passengers understand, a few folks upset. No biggie.

Better communication from JBLU to passengers on this flight:
"Due to strong headwinds, plane cannot fly transcon. Option 1 was to postpone the flight until winds decrease. No ETD. Obtion 2 was to cancel flight entirely and rebook folks for later in the day, or next day - you pay for your own hotel room. Option 3, we fly but make a midpoint stop to refuel, about 2 hour delay.

We opted for the third choice, so be sure to grab yourself some lunch here in the airport before you board the aircraft."

I see a real service opportunity for JBLU in the midst of irregular ops like this, by showing customers (sometimes they need to know it could have been worse), JetBlue is looking out for them and found the best alternative to get folks home quickly and safely.

Can you imagine hearing the GA make such an annoucement? I'd be hi-fiving every JetBlue employee I came across until we departed.

Ya know it's a good day when you can sit in a hotel room, in a too cold to go out city, and laugh at your own error. Tks Bear

Looking at the winds aloft charts. Any westbound flight that is heading to CA, NV, AZ, TX is going to be heading right into the core of the jetstream. Winds are averaging 130kts at FL340.

Flew into JFK earlier today. Thankfully we came from the west. Over Michigan, Ohio and PA at 37000 ft the winds where approximately 190 kts out of the west. If you are going west, regardless of the company, with winds this strong there is a strong likelihood of a tech stop.

Flew into JFK earlier today. Thankfully we came from the west. Over Michigan, Ohio and PA at 37000 ft the winds where approximately 190 kts out of the west. If you are going west, regardless of the company, with winds this strong there is a strong likelihood of a tech stop.

That is the exact reason I switch to the 190 in the winter. I can't stand being on a plane for 8+ hours, not including a tech stop. I don't know how you 320 pilots can do it, or even the inflight crews. However i'd wager a bet the 190 pilots wouldn't mind too much either.

I'll take 8 hours on the bus over 8 hours and 5 legs in the glorified regional jet anyday. We tech'ed in PHX on our way to LGB this AM, close to 8 hrs.

How does Jetblue rank with tech-stops compared to other airlines?

How does Jetblue rank with tech-stops compared to other airlines?

I would say that we are probably on par with most. Tech stops are actually quite infrequent. Its mainly only once in a while when the jetstream is particularly strong.

I would say that we are probably on par with most. Tech stops are actually quite infrequent. Its mainly only once in a while when the jetstream is particularly strong.

I guess things have gotten better since the LGB departure times were shifted so that east-bound transcons weren't doing tech stops several times a month, huh?

JB would have the same problems any carrier operating the A320. Some of our A/C are still equipped with brackets installed to aid an extra fuel tank installation. This never panned out, as it's not as simple as bolting in an extra fuel cell. JB knew the limitations of the A320 and will continue to deal with this problem for years to come.

It all depends on the jetstream. For the past 4 or 5 days a majority of the JFK and BOS west coast flights have tech stopped. You can go months between any westbound flight stopping, then literally overnight everything needs to stop.

I guess things have gotten better since the LGB departure times were shifted so that east-bound transcons weren't doing tech stops several times a month, huh?


In all honesty, I really don't know. Perhaps in the future A320 winglets will help.


http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2008/12/airbus-a320-flies-with-aviatio.html

The new winglets from Aviation Partners are suppose to be better and lighter than the version that Airbus built in house. The wing doesn't need to be strengthened as much so hopefully they pan out. I thought that I saw, somewhere, that we were looking at getting the winglets (new version) if it was cost wise to do it.

Just an aside that I know of at least two VX flights JFK-LAX that have stopped in SLC this week alone. VX also flies Airbus.

Rasheed

Just an aside that I know of at least two VX flights JFK-LAX that have stopped in SLC this week alone. VX also flies Airbus.

Rasheed

VX has both A319 and A320s, right?? The 319s have greater range, IIRC. Which planes were stopping en route?

VX has both A319 and A320s, right?? The 319s have greater range, IIRC. Which planes were stopping en route?

When you are flying into 200 mph headwinds it really doesn't matter. Both the 319 & 320 hold 42200 lbs of gas. Theres a high probablity that you are tech stopping.

I'll take 8 hours on the bus over 8 hours and 5 legs in the glorified regional jet anyday. We tech'ed in PHX on our way to LGB this AM, close to 8 hrs.


"Glorified regional jet" - How obnoxious!

It's not like you are flying a triple 7.

"Glorified regional jet" - How obnoxious!

It's not like you are flying a triple 7.

I'm not.

I'm also not flying an RJ for regional wages at a major airline.

I'll leave it at that.

VX has both A319 and A320s, right?? The 319s have greater range, IIRC. Which planes were stopping en route?

I don't subscribe to the databases of historic flight information, but I'll give you two of the flights and you are welcome to look them up.

VX 522 12/15 jfk-lax
VX 528 12/17 jfk-lax (not 100% sure on this flt number, but I think so.)

Rasheed

I guess things have gotten better since the LGB departure times were shifted so that east-bound transcons weren't doing tech stops several times a month, huh?

When were LGB departures tech stopping?

When were LGB departures tech stopping?

I believe when the long runway was shut down for construction.

When were LGB departures tech stopping?

I meant BUR (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/jetblue-trueblue/844864-flights-long-beach-burbank.html).

That's at least twice I've screwed that one up. :o

Yeah, the stop-over in DEN and consequent 1.5- to 2-hour delay is really not such a big deal. I had a relative on one such flight (from JFK-OAK) the other day, and they gave some minimal compensation (like a $25 voucher each toward a future JetBlue flight if I remember correctly), even though I suppose they could have cited "weather" and given nothing.

Granted, if I was in that position I might be hesitant to board the plane, given JetBlue's record of stranding passengers, but in my opinion, no one could feel too outraged at a delay of this length on a trans-con flight in winter.

I'm not.

I'm also not flying an RJ for regional wages at a major airline.

I'll leave it at that.


Sorry, but if you are a B6 pilot and you believe the 190 is an RJ just because Embraer built it then you are part of the problem. I guess the bus is an RJ when it flies JFK-IAD, huh? P.S. Flightinfo.com and Airline Pilot Central are probably better places for the pilot pissing matches.

To our customers on this thread, thanks for your patience on the tech-stop issues. This seems to be an area where our ops and dispatch departments really have their acts together. I agree our airport operations personnel could do a better job with communicating with our customers on these issues.