Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - Couples can't fly "together" in Biz?

Been looking at the configuration and this forum, and it seems that if couples are flying together in Biz class, due to the seat configuration they cannot really sit/talk/eat/snuggle, etc together in these seats because of both the privacy partitions and the general layout of the seats. Is that correct?

My wife is nervous during takeoff & landing, and she wants to hold my hand during that time. And we are going on Vacation - we don't want to be isolated from each other for 16 hours on the plane.

And it seems like the configuration makes it difficult to look out the window, too, something she feels a need to due, otherwise she feels claustraphobic.

We'll be flying NY - HKG. Recently flew NY - JNB on SAA & it was not configured this way, so there was no problem (but the service - well, that's another story).
Is there a way to book - certain seats - that will allow us to fly as two people flying Together, rather than as 2 individuals who don't want to be bothered by each other? Or a different airline with a better config?

Thanks.

Been looking at the configuration and this forum, and it seems that if couples are flying together in Biz class, due to the seat configuration they cannot really sit/talk/eat/snuggle, etc together in these seats because of both the privacy partitions and the general layout of the seats. Is that correct?

My wife is nervous during takeoff & landing, and she wants to hold my hand during that time. And we are going on Vacation - we don't want to be isolated from each other for 16 hours on the plane.

And it seems like the configuration makes it difficult to look out the window, too, something she feels a need to due, otherwise she feels claustraphobic.

We'll be flying NY - HKG. Recently flew NY - JNB on SAA & it was not configured this way, so there was no problem (but the service - well, that's another story).
Is there a way to book - certain seats - that will allow us to fly as two people flying Together, rather than as 2 individuals who don't want to be bothered by each other? Or a different airline with a better config?

Thanks.

Paragraph 1: Yes, that is correct.

As for the rest, unfortunately it's something people have complained about...but no matter that you want to hold her hand, go on vacation, etc, those really won't change the fact that you have a huge barrier between you if you're next to each other.

A few additional things about the seats, it's a herringbone design as you've likely seen, but on the 77A the slant is significant enough that even if there were no barriers, your head is at about the other person's midsection. If you're looking across (if your partner is across the aisle instead of next to you), you really can't see them due to the barrier being so long, unless both parties are leaning forward.

I'm the business traveler who only flies for work and never actually with anyone I'm dying to talk to, so take this with a grain of salt, but I find it MIGHT actually be advisable for CX to consider making the back flap lower-able. Others here, please chime in, but my logic is this: The barrier between you and them is slim. On the 77A, the slant is significant enough that it only requires about 1/4 of a head turn by each party to see each other. I've thought sometimes that if you had a partner, and if that slat could be lowered, you actually could have a good time with that person (assuming you know them, and your seat is in the lie-flat mode).

The only class two people can hold each others hands for take-off and landing on CX is economy (not even First any more).

Take another airline if you can. Continental is the only one that flies non-stop (from Newark), but JAL via Tokyo might be worth looking into.

For the interim solution, fly on another carrier that will offer the 2-2-2 seating like AA or JL. For airlines like CX, NZ, VS, and AC, you will find the barrier and the herringbone design as more and more people find that they do want to fly 'alone' and if they're apart from their loved ones, perhaps a few hours away from each other is a good thing!

If you insist on wanting to fly with CX, your choices are economy and First Class. Actually you can't even sit next to each other in the new F as all seats are seperate.

Maybe just buy your wife a teddy bear and ask her to hold on to that. At least for take off and landing, assuming you'd still want to fly on CX in Business Class.

Sorry.

Oh and welcome to FlyerTalk and the Cathay Pacific forum, btw.

I have flown similar design on Air NZ, we actually LIKE this type of design than the traditional one.

Yes you would not be able to look out the window easily, but since 2/3 of the time outside is dark anyway, and you most likely would sleep 1/2 or 2/3 of the way, hopefully, so that is really not a big issue.

You have 2 options that may make your wife feel easier.

1) you seat one after another, from front to back, such as 3A and 4A, instead of "next" to each other. It is actually easier to make a conversation that way, though not without a bit of effort. But you still would not see each other unless you sit straight and look over the barrier.

2) you seat accross the aile. On Air NZ's 777 and 747, the passengers accross the aile are in full view. But according to the poster above me, that is not the case on CX. So may be this is not really an option.

Bear in mind, at least half of the time on the flight you should be in sleep if the CX flatbed lives up to the definition and provides a good sleep position. We surely enjoyed Air NZ flatbed a lot. One big plus, Air NZ flatbed does not need to be in upright position during take off or landing. You can even lie down on take off. Dont know how CX's would work though.

Interesting replies - I guess I did read it right, then.
I certainly can see the reasons for this config for a business traveler who travels alone. I think I'd prefer it if I was travelling for that reason (Although during my travels, when travelling alone, I did manage to speak with some interesting seatmates who I could not have met with this configuration - people such as Barbara Walters, John Goodman, and a few others). And at other times, on business, colleagues & I were able to have biz discussions on the plane.
Was there really That Much of a call for this enforced Privacy?

I'm looking at Singapore Air - that might work, too. (esp since my return flight will be from Singapore).

I'm really not sure...from my limited perspective, everyone in my office and colleagues think the privacy is the best thing (because we all fly alone, and are stuck with each other so much anyway that when we do fly together we are fine being separated for 15 hours). If you read CX's FT forum, it doesn't seem that way though.

Looking on each flight, however, and seeing angry looks and watching people awkwardly try to communicate, my rough estimate is that something about 10-20% of the pax in J are flying together and actually want to communicate, and the rest are solo or are relieved at the privacy because they don't like their colleagues/clients.

It's a huge annoyance I'm sure for people like you who are traveling together, it would be nice if they had just thought ahead and had an option to lower something, like a flap. But I really do find the privacy great (there are plenty of other things I don't like about the seat), and think maybe those of us who think so might be a bit of a silent majority

...I really do find the privacy great (there are plenty of other things I don't like about the seat), and think maybe those of us who think so might be a bit of a silent majority. I absolutely agree that the solo / privacy layout suits the majority, but I think there is a significant minority that are displeased. My wife and I no longer aspire to upgrade into J on CX for this reason -- on our last TPac we did JL instead.

I thought I read on another thread (cannot recall whether it was FT or a.net) that a CX purser had confided they were indeed going to make the center dividers lower-able as a partial solution for couples -- this in response to many complaints.

I just flew CX J going to HKT 3 weeks ago in J and JL J coming back from NRT one week ago with my husband. On CX we sat one behind each other on the same side. To see what he was having for dinner or talk to him I had to stand up and look over the partition. But since we were going to be together 24/7 for 2 weeks while on vacation, being apart during the flight over was no big deal. We slept most of it anyways. Coming back on JL which is side by side, I had to listen to him snore while dozing. The flat bed seats on CX have it hands down over the JL tippy seat for sleeping on a long flight.

Biz seatbelts are more like a car -- across waist and chest -- but the chest part can be undone after takeoff. IME they require full fastening for takeoff and landing. One is quite restrained.

Second, the layout gives a sense of moving sideways (which you are) rather than forward and straight. Feels a little awkward at first, but quickly dissipates.

I just flew CX J going to HKT 3 weeks ago in J and JL J coming back from NRT one week ago with my husband. On CX we sat one behind each other on the same side. To see what he was having for dinner or talk to him I had to stand up and look over the partition. But since we were going to be together 24/7 for 2 weeks while on vacation, being apart during the flight over was no big deal. We slept most of it anyways. Coming back on JL which is side by side, I had to listen to him snore while dozing. The flat bed seats on CX have it hands down over the JL tippy seat for sleeping on a long flight.

See, that is going to be our story. I dont need to sit side by side with hubby on the plane, especially in such a confined environment. We were perfectly fine on the NZ herringbone design. On the outbound the flight attendant talked him into dining together with him sitting on the Ottoman (a much bigger version than the CX's). He wouldn't have anything to do with it on the inbound.

On a BA flight we raised up our divider when we went to sleep.

I honestly think there is a silent majority who actually prefers the hurringbone setup, including couples traveled together. But the vocal minority makes it sound a lot worse than it actually is.

Flatbeds win over anything else, that is the conclusion in our household.

My wife and I no longer aspire to upgrade into J on CX for this reason And I don't think CX is losing that much sleep over it.
After all, the people paying the most for Business class are overwhelmingly flying alone and want the privacy.

See, that is going to be our story. I dont need to sit side by side with hubby on the plane, especially in such a confined environment. We were perfectly fine on the NZ herringbone design. On the outbound the flight attendant talked him into dining together with him sitting on the Ottoman (a much bigger version than the CX's). He wouldn't have anything to do with it on the inbound.

On a BA flight we raised up our divider when we went to sleep.

I honestly think there is a silent majority who actually prefers the hurringbone setup, including couples traveled together. But the vocal minority makes it sound a lot worse than it actually is.

Flatbeds win over anything else, that is the conclusion in our household.

We are not silent majority or minority. I voiced that back in February. My wife loved that - but she was traveling solo back then. I tried that in March (or May), and I loved that - but I was traveling solo too. Our family traveled together last summer, and all of us - including the two kids - liked it. We all did our own things. We slept at different times, and when we talked, we stood and and took the opportunity to stretch out.

If CX does install a movable partition, that should take care of a big part of the problem for those who like to talk with the companions.

If there are free seats in Y, then I suppose you could sit there for the take-off and swap after the seatbelt sign is switched off?

If there are free seats in Y, then I suppose you could sit there for the take-off and swap after the seatbelt sign is switched off?

Haha - what a suggestion!! Perhaps one should find a car without shoulder belt so one needs not wear one.:D

I don't think it has to do with the shoulder belt, but rather the desire to hold hands and comfort a nervous flyer on takeoff. @:-)

I'm part of the (previously silent) majority and must say that I love the new CX JCL config. I now get a good night's sleep on the neverending and tedious grind of international long haul overnight travel. If they had of asked me what I wanted before the installation I would have said privacy and flat and they have delivered on both. They listened to the complaints about the crappo blankets and now use nice comfy duvets on long haul. I'm sure they're listening to those that 'want to hold hands' and 'snuggle' and will do everything in their power to fix the problem. However short of a multi million dollar refit, I'm not sure how the problem can be solved. Given the current economic circumstances that is impacting all of us it is naive to think they spend millions on a refit when the initial installation is not even complete.

I think the layout is fantastic, I don't have to talk to anyone when I'm alone and love the privacy. If I'm traveling with my girlfriend, I actually value the separation for a bit. We will see plenty of each other on the remainder of the trip.

As for the nervousness, your wife might want to see her physician and get a prescription for a good benzodiazepine. That will relax her and make for some good sleep on that long overnight flight.

I'm part of the (previously silent) majority and must say that I love the new CX JCL config. I now get a good night's sleep on the neverending and tedious grind of international long haul overnight travel. If they had of asked me what I wanted before the installation I would have said privacy and flat and they have delivered on both. They listened to the complaints about the crappo blankets and now use nice comfy duvets on long haul. I'm sure they're listening to those that 'want to hold hands' and 'snuggle' and will do everything in their power to fix the problem. However short of a multi million dollar refit, I'm not sure how the problem can be solved. Given the current economic circumstances that is impacting all of us it is naive to think they spend millions on a refit when the initial installation is not even complete.

Agreed

And I don't think CX is losing that much sleep over it. After all, the people paying the most for Business class are overwhelmingly flying alone and want the privacy. Perhaps yes, perhaps no. I would imagine CX is losing some sleep about J revenue in general given the downturn, and might be thinking about ways to broaden the product's appeal.

Perhaps yes, perhaps no. I would imagine CX is losing some sleep about J revenue in general given the downturn, and might be thinking about ways to broaden the product's appeal.

Yea, but if you read my (granted, convoluted) description in the thread here http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cathay-pacific-asia-miles/898058-modification-new-biz-class.html about halfway down you'll see it's a pretty tough thing to do just based on the hardware right now. It would require a significant capex move on CX's part, something that is difficult to commit to in the downturn, particularly given the rather narrow market segment that attracts. It was narrowminded for CX not to think of it at all (management at CX seems to be out of the feedback loop), but if you fly on the new J a few times you'll realize...modifying the product as people request is much easier said than done

Perhaps yes, perhaps no. I would imagine CX is losing some sleep about J revenue in general given the downturn, and might be thinking about ways to broaden the product's appeal.

Although I think I should clarify what I say in the post above, basically if CX is talking about only eliminating/making movable the thing at the back of your head for the two middle seats only (window seats would still be out of luck), that probably would work. But if CX is referring to actually changing the main partition between each seat, I just don't see how that can be done without spending a serious amount of money.

If you are travelling together in J, you probably want to be across the aisle from each other: a/d or g/k in the same row. Look at the Cathay web site and take their tour of the new business class seating. Select walking around the aircraft yourself (in the animated guide). It's actually fun...you can walk all around the plane and look at all the seats.

You can actually go to the seat you pick and then figure out where you want the other person to sit, relative to you. You will immediately realize that the worst possible seating is the two middle seats because to talk, one would have to get up and walk all the way around to even get in your aisle.

Alternatively, if you want to minimize hearing (or feeling) some other person, you might want to pick window seats one in front of the other.

...if CX is referring to actually changing the main partition between each seat, I just don't see how that can be done without spending a serious amount of money. With today's report from the South China Morning Post that F and J bookings are off a full 25%, perhaps CX will at least take a second look at narrowing the appeal of its premium products to passengers traveling alone.

Quick question here...

I am flying CX in J for the first time HKG-LHR next month. Currently my mate and I are booked into 84k and 86k. AA (booked as an award redemption) tell me 84k and 86k are next to each other (one behind the other).

For the CX J experts out there...is this true? Seatguru shows an 85J but AA insists row 85 doesn't exist.

Any help welcome.
Thanks.

It really doesn't matter - one of you will need to get up and walk round to stand and talk to the other.

But http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/images/aircraft_type/747_400A.gif shows no row 85 so you will be within shouting distance of each other should you find yourself in an otherwise empty cabin. All upper deck seats are A or K in the new config.

just keep your voices down as I find couples and friends tend to start up conversations that gradually get louder, I and some other passengers on a flight a few months ago had to request the loud couple to lower it as they could be heard, word for word, even with the ear plugs in

I think the unfortunate part about this whole situation is that it EASLY could have been avoided. All CX had to do was create a small sliding petition. A petition could satisfy people who want to communicate as well as satisfy those who want pure privacy. This was IMO a very significant thing for CX to overlook. To have a premium international J product that doesn't allow for any form of simple communication during flight is a major flaw.

Thanks for the help. We'll stick with our assigned seats. I strongly suspect after 2 weeks of traveling together we'll be tired of talking!

New configuration

Plus: great video system, no climbing over anyone, privacy

Minus: too narrow in the shoulders, too much privacy, and
am I the only one who actually likes to look out the windows on day flights
(impossible on the 747 upper deck)

Given the same price I think CX J has moved down my choice preference

But as normal I wander

Fred

Even when travelling with my wife I actually enjoy the privacy as i don't get disturbed when watching movies... (don't worry even if she reads this she is well aware about my preference for privacy in flight!!) BUT i would have liked the option of being able to speak to my wife with ease... so my brilliant suggestions to CX are as follows:

1) All seats have a phone now so why not create a simple way to allow PAX travelling together to be able to use the phone to call each other for free?? (and there should be some way to create a buddy list in advance and store it on your profile somewhere - so at least you don't get random phone calls!)

2) They could even go a step further and add an inexpesive video camera so you could do video calls (optional of course for PAX!)

Hopefully they adopt my suggestions and pay me for my brilliance! Hehe...

Seriously though at least this becomes a very inexpensive way for them to allow communication between PAX. Using the phones which are already in place would surly be ecnomical and probably incur just a software upgrade??

The cameras would cost a bit but would be a good plus for CX compared with other airlines that have a similar config...

the other thing they could do would be to makethe footstool side a proper mini-seat that someone could sit down and have aconversation...

the other thing they could do would be to makethe footstool side a proper mini-seat that someone could sit down and have aconversation...

hear hear! i was on a flight, and was visiting my friend at her J seat. the FAs were serving dessert, and was right behind me. however, couldn't really sit down because the footstool itself says something like don't sit, or not a seat or something like that. it'd be nice to have a seat to talk for 5-10 min... in the end i had to cram into the small space between her stool and seat till the cart left.

I think SQ had seat to seat phones on their pre spacebed planes. I don't know if they still have them.

Run a network cable between your laptops and use the web cam:D