Korean Air Skypass - How to buy a ticket

Is there a way to get a KE ticket without using a travel agent or calling the useless KE phone number within 5 days of travel?

I tried calling KE, and the Seoul office tried to "sell" me an H-fare ticket (L was available) and gave me a 7 digit "PNR", telling me to call the US office tomorrow. :( After I complain that L is available, the rep "agrees" and says the reservation is for an L fare ticket. I have to call back tomorrow to actually buy the ticket. I'm thinking that it won't be available then...

Should I wait an believe the KE rep, or just spend the extra $150 to buy the ticket as a DL code-share?

Is there a way to get a KE ticket without using a travel agent or calling the useless KE phone number within 5 days of travel?

I tried calling KE, and the Seoul office tried to "sell" me an H-fare ticket (L was available) and gave me a 7 digit "PNR", telling me to call the US office tomorrow. :( After I complain that L is available, the rep "agrees" and says the reservation is for an L fare ticket. I have to call back tomorrow to actually buy the ticket. I'm thinking that it won't be available then...

Should I wait an believe the KE rep, or just spend the extra $150 to buy the ticket as a DL code-share?



First, double check if that L fare does not have advance purchase condition.
If it does not, it could be that L class was not available for S.Korea POS or that fare could not queried by S.Korea POS. Note that seat availability and fare basis are different depending on point of sale. So even if you could see L on U.S. POS, it does not mean that the agent in Seoul could see L.

First, double check if that L fare does not have advance purchase condition.
If it does not, it could be that L class was not available for S.Korea POS or that fare could not queried by S.Korea POS. Note that seat availability and fare basis are different depending on point of sale. So even if you could see L on U.S. POS, it does not mean that the agent in Seoul could see L.

One would think that if I can check a SEL POS, a KE agent could check a US POS.

As fate would have it my trip is in doubt. Hurray for KE's inefficiency. :D

One would think that if I can check a SEL POS, a KE agent could check a US POS.

As fate would have it my trip is in doubt. Hurray for KE's inefficiency. :D



You might would think like that, but not necessarily. If your phone call was channeled to the regular English reservation desk, they can do business with only S.Korea POS. I guess it's more to blame your inefficiency. Why not just make a reservation at Orbitz or Cheaptickets? Their good ITA resources usually provide whatever a customer desires.

You might would think like that, but not necessarily. If your phone call was channeled to the regular English reservation desk, they can do business with only S.Korea POS. I guess it's more to blame your inefficiency.
My inefficiency is to blame for their not being able to see what I can see? Please explain.

Am I also at fault for their website's inability to book tickets within 5 days of departure, look up reservations without a SkyPass #, book an open jaw or do pretty much anything useful?

Why not just make a reservation at Orbitz or Cheaptickets?

Do you really have to ask? I really love paying extra fees for the privilege of having more trouble and paying extra fees and whenever I want to change a ticket.

Is there a way to get a KE ticket without using a travel agent or calling the useless KE phone number within 5 days of travel?

As far as I know: No

Should I wait an believe the KE rep, or just spend the extra $150 to buy the ticket as a DL code-share?
Unless there is a psychic amongst us... no one will be able to reliably answer that question. ;)

One would think that if I can check a SEL POS, a KE agent could check a US POS.
My inefficiency is to blame for their not being able to see what I can see? Please explain.
If everything were that simple... The WWW gives you unrestricted access to information. A TA or in your case a KE agent is limited to the KE/Skyteam system with its numerous restrictions (POS being only one of them). So, I guess N227UA's reference was towards your simplified assumption you based your complaint on.


Am I also at fault for their website's inability to book tickets within 5 days of departure, look up reservations without a SkyPass #, book an open jaw or do pretty much anything useful?

KE's website is inefficient compared to others, I agree. Especially for those who do not have korean citizenship, it is quite a hassle to book through KE's website. I tried once but was annoyed by the procedures and went with another airline. So, that begs the question why you still insist on booking with KE, when you already know about the deficits you mentioned above?

I'm not a big fan of Orbitz&Co either, but as N227UA mentioned before, they do have a good ITA and making a reservation with them is efficient. If you prefer to book directly with an Airline, then I suggest you stick with KE or book with DL (if it has to be within Skyteam). Depends on how you balance the pro's and con's, and how much you are willing to accept the con's for booking with KE.

Good Luck and let us know how it worked out with your reservation.

Unless there is a psychic amongst us... no one will be able to reliably answer that question. ;)

I can. KE did come through; the SEL agent was able to get me an L-class fare despite her supposed inability to see it. ^

What's with the 7-digit PNR? The US rep was able to give me the 6-digit one.

If everything were that simple... The WWW gives you unrestricted access to information. A TA or in your case a KE agent is limited to the KE/Skyteam system with its numerous restrictions (POS being only one of them). So, I guess N227UA's reference was towards your simplified assumption you based your complaint on.
My assumption is that KE is the one that determines what its agents can see, either by deciding what software/service to buy, or by actively restricting the information. It's not the agent's fault; it's KE's.

KE's website is inefficient compared to others, I agree. Especially for those who do not have korean citizenship, it is quite a hassle to book through KE's website. I tried once but was annoyed by the procedures and went with another airline. So, that begs the question why you still insist on booking with KE, when you already know about the deficits you mentioned above?
Despite the hot cabins and deficient, albeit polite, service on the ground, KE is a good airline... and gets me CO EQMs (though only 50% for L-class). It's a shame that they don't do the simple things to make the experience less annoying.

Another example: KE promises things (http://www.koreanair.com/local/na/gd/eng/sp/cb/eng_sp_cb_sb.htm) that they don't have or deliver (e.g. priority boarding and seating for ST Elites). It's one of those things that are not important, but become very annoying when promised and not delivered. Either actually deliver it, or do not promise it.

These stupid little things take far more away from the experience than what they would cost to fix.

I'm not a big fan of Orbitz&Co either, but as N227UA mentioned before, they do have a good ITA and making a reservation with them is efficient.

I don't like paying extra to buy a ticket, only to have to pay extra to refund a ticket. I don't like being told by the airline that I have to talk to my travel agent... which does not consider itself a travel agent.

Good Luck and let us know how it worked out with your reservation.
Got the ticket. Leave in a day; maybe.

You should be able to book DL-coded flights operated by KE within a few days of departure, maybe even last-minute. On the afternoon of Thursday 11/27, I bought a DL-coded ticket on KE flights departing on the early morning of Tuesday 12/2, so just over 4 days. Purchased an e-ticket from DL.com. The only glitch was that DL initially priced it in HKD (departing HKG) but required me to buy it in US$ because my Amex has a US address. US$ price was slightly higher than HKD.

My inefficiency is to blame for their not being able to see what I can see? Please explain.


That's what the point of sale is, and it is a marketing strategy. They manage inventory different depending on geographic region so that they can maximize revenue from selling tickets in various regions. I just don't get what your logic behind blaming them not being able to get U.S. availability in S.Korea. They cannot get you U.S. availability because they are in S.Korea simply. If they could change point of sale on CRS/GDS based on customer's preference, they would not have even created such thing. I don't see what's problem in S.Korea air carrier offering S.Korea availability at S.Korea reservation desk. If you called a U.S. air carrier reservation desk outside the U.S. and complained for them not being able to see U.S. availability, that would make at least a little bit of sense, but this totally does not make sense.



Am I also at fault for their website's inability to book tickets within 5 days of departure, look up reservations without a SkyPass #, book an open jaw or do pretty much anything useful?


You can bash about these.



Do you really have to ask? I really love paying extra fees for the privilege of having more trouble and paying extra fees and whenever I want to change a ticket.


That's your problem. Then you should have called KE's U.S. reservation desk in advance. What is urgent for you is not urgent for KE.



My assumption is that KE is the one that determines what its agents can see, either by deciding what software/service to buy, or by actively restricting the information. It's not the agent's fault; it's KE's.


Totally non-sense. Go and find any air carrier that can change point of sale. You just don't understand the whole concept of point of sale.



I can. KE did come through; the SEL agent was able to get me an L-class fare despite her supposed inability to see it. ^


Probably, the inventory mange desk handled it.



What's with the 7-digit PNR? The US rep was able to give me the 6-digit one.


7-digit PNR is Topas PNR and 6-digit PNR is (perhaps) Amedeus PNR.

That's what the point of sale is, and it is a marketing strategy. They manage inventory different depending on geographic region so that they can maximize revenue from selling tickets in various regions. I just don't get what your logic behind blaming them not being able to get U.S. availability in S.Korea. They cannot get you U.S. availability because they are in S.Korea simply.
Sorry, I have trouble believing that. It's because KE decided, whether by omission or conscious decision, to make it so. UA bases its sales reps in India. Oddly enough they can see US POS information.

Why can India-based UA representatives sell US POS tickets?
Why can New Zealand-based NZ reps sell US POS tickets?
What's so special about KE reps in the ROK?

The only explanation that would have some merit is if there were some ROK law preventing KE from providing their ROK-based agents from accessing this information or charging US-based credit cards. Even then KE could outsource the off-hours US reservation line to a another country.

Agents making reservations and/or selling tickets to US-based customers calling a domestic US phone # should probably be equipped to handle the typical and basic needs of US customers. (N.B. I called the US domestic 800 number.) Yes, the situation was handled in somewhat tolerable way,and the ability to actually make a reservation is better than nothing, but it is a pain in the butt. Additionally, a customer who did not know about L-class availability would have been overcharged.

If you called a U.S. air carrier reservation desk outside the U.S. and complained for them not being able to see U.S. availability, that would make at least a little bit of sense, but this totally does not make sense.
The situation makes sense, in that KE decided to make it so. KE's decision to do so does not make sense.

That's your problem. Then you should have called KE's U.S. reservation desk in advance. What is urgent for you is not urgent for KE.
Are you serious? Not everyone can plan their travels months or weeks in advance.

Totally non-sense. Go and find any air carrier that can change point of sale. You just don't understand the whole concept of point of sale.

Any airline with an overseas call center. Air New Zealand, UA, US, etc. etc.

Probably, the inventory mange desk handled it.
Please explain how it makes sense that the Seoul office could not see the L-class fare, yet were able to make a reservation for a US POS in that fare class. (Not that I'm complaining that they could).

7-digit PNR is Topas PNR and 6-digit PNR is (perhaps) Amedeus PNR.

Thanks. Now if only I could see the PNR on checkmytrip (Amadeus).

You should be able to book DL-coded flights operated by KE within a few days of departure, maybe even last-minute

I had actually done that for less convenient dates, but the KE L-fare opened up and was $150+ cheaper on a better day. I canceled the DL ticket (full refund) and tried to book KE.

I booked a code-share last year when a relative died. Found out really early Saturday morning. Same day travel on a Saturday.
That's your problem. Then you should have called KE's U.S. reservation desk in advance. What is urgent for you is not urgent for KE.
Maybe the person should have died during US business hours. :rolleyes:

Of course KE subtly sticks it to code-share customers. Last year I booked via a CO code-share and tried to check in at COEX. The KE lady checked me in, had my boarding pass in hand, but then told me that city check-in was not available to code-share customers. :mad::confused: It would not have been so stupid if she hadn't had the boarding passes in her hand. Generally I appreciate extra effort, but not when the extra effort is specifically to make things difficult for me.

7-digit PNR is Topas PNR and 6-digit PNR is (perhaps) Amedeus PNR.

Thanks. Now if only I could see the PNR on checkmytrip (Amadeus).

Any chance the 7-digit PNR consisted of numbers only and 6-digit PNR letters and numbers combined? If so, the former should be just a reservation code for ticketing reference and the latter is the confirmation code, i.e. KE's own PNR, according to my own experience with OZ.

Sorry, I have trouble believing that. It's because KE decided, whether by omission or conscious decision, to make it so. UA bases its sales reps in India. Oddly enough they can see US POS information.


Yes, UA's call centres in India can see US POS that's because of they are designated to handle incoming calls from the U.S while KE agents in Seoul handle incoming calls from all over the world, including S.Korea for English-speaking customers, whenever their local overseas reservation desk is closed.


Why can India-based UA representatives sell US POS tickets? Why can New Zealand-based NZ reps sell US POS tickets?
What's so special about KE reps in the ROK?


Answered above.



The only explanation that would have some merit is if there were some ROK law preventing KE from providing their ROK-based agents from accessing this information or charging US-based credit cards. Even then KE could outsource the off-hours US reservation line to a another country.


There is no such law that hinders KE from charging US-based credit card. Same for any other air carrier marketing in ROK. For instance, UA has no problem charging US-based credit card in USD without conversion. Outsouce? Cost would not be justified in the days when online ticketing is common. How many calls from the U.S. do you think they would take considering the U.S. call center is closed only during the late night.



Agents making reservations and/or selling tickets to US-based customers calling a domestic US phone # should probably be equipped to handle the typical and basic needs of US customers. (N.B. I called the US domestic 800 number.) Yes, the situation was handled in somewhat tolerable way,and the ability to actually make a reservation is better than nothing, but it is a pain in the butt. Additionally, a customer who did not know about L-class availability would have been overcharged.


As a comparison, Asiana does not answer any phone call after 8pm PST. The needs of US customers? Like I mentioned above, that line is to serve customers around the world. I assume the majority calls would be from English speakers within S.Korea, and calls from the U.S. takes only very small portion.



The situation makes sense, in that KE decided to make it so. KE's decision to do so does not make sense.


Like I said, go and find any airline or travel agency that would choose POS depending on your taste.



Are you serious? Not everyone can plan their travels months or weeks in advance.


Did I tell you to plan months or weeks in advance. I just said in advance, and that meant ONE DAY EARLIER or EVEN FEW HOURS EARLIER, then your call would have taken to the U.S. call center.



Any airline with an overseas call center. Air New Zealand, UA, US, etc. etc.


That's only because they are only designated to serve U.S. customers.



Please explain how it makes sense that the Seoul office could not see the L-class fare, yet were able to make a reservation for a US POS in that fare class. (Not that I'm complaining that they could).


What do you mean by "a reservation for US POS"? What they probably did was contacted the inventory management desk to generate a booking. Auto-pricing can be simply done by agent in the U.S. later.



Thanks. Now if only I could see the PNR on checkmytrip (Amadeus).


That I don't know why you cannot see.

Yes, UA's call centres in India can see US POS that's because of they are designated to handle incoming calls from the U.S while KE agents in Seoul handle incoming calls from all over the world, including S.Korea for English-speaking customers, whenever their local overseas reservation desk is closed.

Finally you [by implication] admit that I am correct: KE's Seoul office was not able to sell me a ticket because KE decided it should be that way. Nothing except their decision not to do it, perhaps because of the implementation cost, prevents KE from selling tickets for purchase throughout the world from the Seoul call center.

It may be because KE doesn't consider it to be worth the cost... fine. I still reserve the right to complain about it. :)

As a comparison, Asiana does not answer any phone call after 8pm PST. The needs of US customers?
Are better met by Asiana. They sell tickets online on the day of departure on their (Expedia outsourced?) web site, a capability that I used last year to buy tickets for two relatives. OZ was decent enough to give me that capability on a Saturday, as well as letting me buy tickets without traveling 2500km to the departure city to show my credit card.

Finally you [by implication] admit that I am correct: KE's Seoul office was not able to sell me a ticket because KE decided it should be that way. Nothing except their decision not to do it, perhaps because of the implementation cost, prevents KE from selling tickets for purchase throughout the world from the Seoul call center.

It may be because KE doesn't consider it to be worth the cost... fine. I still reserve the right to complain about it. :)


Are better met by Asiana. They sell tickets online on the day of departure on their (Expedia outsourced?) web site, a capability that I used last year to buy tickets for two relatives. OZ was decent enough to give me that capability on a Saturday, as well as letting me buy tickets without traveling 2500km to the departure city to show my credit card.



Sorry, but you're correct in no way. UA's call center in India exists only for U.S. customers while KE's call center in Seoul exists mainly for English-speaking customers in S.Korea although they do forwarding to Seoul whenever foreign offices are closed. Therefore, they use S.Korea POS. That said, how would you expect them to keep US POS on their system? Are you insisting they should keep a separate group of agents to handle calls from the U.S.? Yes, that would be possible only if everyone is willing to pay for at least Y/B ticket.

Sorry, but you're correct in no way. UA's call center in India exists only for U.S. customers while KE's call center in Seoul exists mainly for English-speaking customers in S.Korea although they do forwarding to Seoul whenever foreign offices are closed.
Did I say UA was better. NO! All I said was that UA could do X, so KE should be able to do the same, and you agreed that they could if they wanted to. Is there some law in the RoK against an agent selling tickets from SEL and NYC? Then agents can switch terminals, or be equipped with terminals that can handle multiple points of sale.

Therefore, they use S.Korea POS. That said, how would you expect them to keep US POS on their system? Are you insisting they should keep a separate group of agents to handle calls from the U.S.? Yes, that would be possible only if everyone is willing to pay for at least Y/B ticket.

:rolleyes:
What the $%$@? Computers are magical things. They can be programmed to do things, like change the POS for an agent. Where do you get this absurd idea about Y/B fares? Does KE even have "B" fares?

If such a capability is not available, then KE could outsource its services, pay a vendor to develop such capability, etc. etc. Sure it may not be worth the cost, but to say what you said above is just like saying crossing a river with a car is impossible, while ignoring the fact that one can build a bridge. The question is not whether it can be done, but whether it's worth it.

Did I say UA was better. NO! All I said was that UA could do X, so KE should be able to do the same, and you agreed that they could if they wanted to. Is there some law in the RoK against an agent selling tickets from SEL and NYC? Then agents can switch terminals, or be equipped with terminals that can handle multiple points of sale.


Each terminal is licensed to a specific region. Hence, it would cost them much to subscribe terminals multiple regions. UA could do it because it was cost effective to handle a volume of calls in India with low wage and multiple region subscriptions were not necesary. On the other hand, did you think it would be cost effective for KE to obtain US region license although they get only a few calls from the US when its local reservation center is closed? Think. UA's situation is totally different from KE's.



:rolleyes:
What the $%$@? Computers are magical things. They can be programmed to do things, like change the POS for an agent. Where do you get this absurd idea about Y/B fares? Does KE even have "B" fares?

If such a capability is not available, then KE could outsource its services, pay a vendor to develop such capability, etc. etc. Sure it may not be worth the cost, but to say what you said above is just like saying crossing a river with a car is impossible, while ignoring the fact that one can build a bridge. The question is not whether it can be done, but whether it's worth it.


Sorry, B does not exist. Other than that, it was answered above. You answered yourself why they can't do it. Because of COST. It's simply not worth to spend for it.

Each terminal is licensed to a specific region. Hence, it would cost them much to subscribe terminals multiple regions
...
You answered yourself why they can't do it. Because of COST. It's simply not worth to spend for it.

That makes sense. Thank you.