Asiana Club - OZ F or JL F?

I'm at a stalemate. I have to choose between the two, and I'm stuck. I'm assuming OZ will have its new seats in F on ICN-JFK. JL will have it's new seats on NRT-JFK. OZ is $500 cheaper, not an insignificant amount.

I know I'll have a great time either way. Just splitting hairs I guess. Most important to me is food and beverage, then service, then seat, then lounge.

I've done all my searches, looked at the websites, and I think if they were the same price, I'd go with JL.

Just curious if anyone has had any experience with both of the new products. Thanks for any insights.

Also, does anyone know what champagne OZ serves? I have a sweet spot for the stuff.

Can't answer your other questions, but in C LAX-ICN and ICN-SEA, bubbly was Charles Heidsieck Brut Reserve.

Also, does anyone know what champagne OZ serves?

In F, OZ serves Taittinger Comtes de Champagne which many say is comparable to Krug and Dom. I actually really liked the Comtes de Champagne - possibly more so than Krug and Dom! :eek:

I'm told that the food is staggeringly good on longhaul. Service will probably be better than JAL. New seats will be very good, though the new JL seats look better as a bed, and the ICN lounge is perfectly good (though nothing "special" a la LH FCT).

Having not flown both, I have to make an unbiased opinion. However, I can compare OZ to SQ and CX F, both of which I have flown multiple times. The honest truth is that disregarding the hard product (seats and IFE, and to be honest, I haven't flown on the new OZ suite seats so this is absolutely not as big of an issue as it was), OZ is just as comparable to SQ and CX.

The service and FA's are much more Asian than on SQ which is a hybrid Asian-western service, and so English is not the primary language on board, FA's are less fluent etc. However, the crew are absolutely amazing. The meal service on ICN-LAX was amazing. 2 main courses were served to everyone! They are also the only airline I know that gives a goodbye gift in addition to all the other amenities in F.

Also, the ground product in ICN is superb. No, there is no FCT but ICN airport is wonderfully well-laid out, the OZ lounges are very high quality and the staff are all extremely helpful.

So especially given the price difference, I would say go for OZ, you won't regret it!

I've flown both OZ and JL several times in F and here's my comparison.

SEAT - I really like the 1-1-1 layout on JL's 773, but if it's the 747 then I would pick OZ. BTW, JL tends to keep their cabins pretty warm.

WINE - Same champagne, but OZ has a much better wine list.

FOOD - Western catering out of ICN beats NRT, but Japanese food from NRT is better than Korean food from ICN. Catering from JFK should be pretty similar for both.

SERVICE - Both are excellent, but FAs on OZ typically speak English a little better than JL. A big pet peeve is that Japanese carriers (NH & JL) do NOT serve ANY beverages until cruising altitude has been reached. That means no welcome champagne, which I really like. Apparently, this has something to do with avoiding duty taxes and such.

LOUNGE - I prefer JL's F lounge to OZ. Much better food, lots of windows overlooking the runway and a more exciting vibe than the dark and boring OZ F lounge. Plus, the JL lounge has a spa with free Shiatsu massages.

YMMV

SERVICE - Both are excellent, but FAs on OZ typically speak English a little better than JL. A big pet peeve is that Japanese carriers (NH & JL) do NOT serve ANY beverages until cruising altitude has been reached. That means no welcome champagne, which I really like. Apparently, this has something to do with avoiding duty taxes and such.

YMMV

In OZ F, I usually like to have the ginseng tea when I sit down, they usually will come with a small jar of honey if you feel that is bitter. And they used a special design tea cup with korean decor for the ginseng tea and green tea (if you are flying ICN-NRT). That tea cup is only for long haul F.

I'm at a stalemate. I have to choose between the two, and I'm stuck. I'm assuming OZ will have its new seats in F on ICN-JFK. JL will have it's new seats on NRT-JFK. OZ is $500 cheaper, not an insignificant amount.

I know I'll have a great time either way. Just splitting hairs I guess. Most important to me is food and beverage, then service, then seat, then lounge.

I've done all my searches, looked at the websites, and I think if they were the same price, I'd go with JL.

Just curious if anyone has had any experience with both of the new products. Thanks for any insights.

Also, does anyone know what champagne OZ serves? I have a sweet spot for the stuff.

Where do you actually want to go? Japan, Korea, neither?

I have not seen the new OZ F Lounge but I know the JL NRT lounge very well and from what I heard it is miles better than the OZ lounge. Typical for oneworld airlines.
In terms of service, I prefer OZ over JL.

Where do you actually want to go? Japan, Korea, neither?

I have not seen the new OZ F Lounge but I know the JL NRT lounge very well and from what I heard it is miles better than the OZ lounge. Typical for oneworld airlines.
In terms of service, I prefer OZ over JL.

Neither! The flights are transits. Spending New Year's in Shanghai and need to get back to JFK. Have the choice of NRT-JFK on JL or NRT-ICN-JFK on OZ.

If it were the old JL F, which I've done a few times, I would jump on OZ F. But since it's the new JL F, I'm torn.

I think I'm leaning towards JL F because the new seat looks amazing and they've revamped their menu.

But if I fly OZ, I get an extra flight.

I think all the comments indicate that either one will be fantastic. I may just have to toss a coin!

Neither! The flights are transits. Spending New Year's in Shanghai and need to get back to JFK.

If your ultimate destination is Shanghai, then take note that OZ operates a 747 between ICN-PVG that offers F.

JL only flies 2 cabin aircraft from NRT-PVG, which may prevent you from accessing the F lounge during your connection.

I've flown both OZ and JL several times in F


SERVICE - A big pet peeve is that Japanese carriers (NH & JL) do NOT serve ANY beverages until cruising altitude has been reached. Apparently, this has something to do with avoiding duty taxes and such.



So whats wrong with serving, Water, Juice or Tea? Had a 90 min pre-departure JL delay at ORD some weeks ago, they really could have offered something in First. And with fares as high as $16,000RT it really is a joke..I would have settled for a Glass of Korbel LOL.

So whats wrong with serving, Water, Juice or Tea? Had a 90 min pre-departure JL delay at ORD some weeks ago, they really could have offered something in First. And with fares as high as $16,000RT it really is a joke..I would have settled for a Glass of Korbel LOL.

You're absolutely right.

My final straw flying Japanese carriers came last month on a NH flight from NRT-LAX in F.

I boarded about 20 minutes before departure and sat there being offered nothing. Then we spent almost an hour making the slow crawl to takeoff.

So it's almost an hour and a half since boarding and I'm getting really thirsty for a glass of bubbly. To my horror, the FAs didn't start serving drinks until an hour after takeoff - that's almost 40 minutes since reaching cruising altitude.

I boarded the plane at 4:40 pm and finally had a glass of champagne in my hand at 7:00 pm. Totally unacceptable IMO.

In contrast, OZ serves drinks immediately upon boarding, then refills them again and lets you hold the glass during takeoff if you desire. And 15 minutes after that, the FAs are at your seat with a fresh glass.

From now on, it's only OZ or SQ for me.

And 15 minutes after that, the FAs are at your seat with a fresh glass.

And by "at your seat" you mean the amazing OZ FA is crouching/kneeling by your seat so she won't be looking down on you and you don't have to crane your neck up to look at her.

To the OP, I'd say OZ for sure. Reserve the Royal Table d'Hote Cuisine out of ICN, as I described here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=535017

David

And by "at your seat" you mean the amazing OZ FA is crouching/kneeling by your seat so she won't be looking down on you and you don't have to crane your neck up to look at her.

Exactly.

Well I like OZ F a bit better... but both are fairly good.

About serving pre-takeoff beverages on Japanese airlines, both JAL and ANA do not serve pre-takeoff beverages. They are not allowed to do so - not sure what is the reason? But it has been this way for a while... If it is the duty avoidance issue, they can at least serve water or non-alcoholic beverages. I actually find it strange that it takes so longer for them to serve you a beverage. I believe both JAL and ANA immediately serve a quick round of champagne after takeoff and the pilot chime (to signal that it is safe to work)... at least on JL, that is the case.

Carfield

I've heard that the JMOT wants the flight crews to be busy with flight preparations(safety checks etc.) so forbids them both to offer a service that will interfere with said preparations....Believe it or not;)

I've heard that the JMOT wants the flight crews to be busy with flight preparations(safety checks etc.) so forbids them both to offer a service that will interfere with said preparations....Believe it or not;)

I believe this is correct. Once, I was taking cabin pictures in NH F prior to take off. It was obvious that the plane wasn't going to leave the gate anytime soon yet the purser came over and asked me to be sitted for some "security" reasons. She felt like a school teacher to me. ;)

Well I like OZ F a bit better... but both are fairly good.

About serving pre-takeoff beverages on Japanese airlines, both JAL and ANA do not serve pre-takeoff beverages. They are not allowed to do so - not sure what is the reason? But it has been this way for a while... If it is the duty avoidance issue, they can at least serve water or non-alcoholic beverages. I actually find it strange that it takes so longer for them to serve you a beverage. I believe both JAL and ANA immediately serve a quick round of champagne after takeoff and the pilot chime (to signal that it is safe to work)... at least on JL, that is the case.

Carfield

Carfield, it would be interesting to see how you rate the new JL F vs. OZ F. I flew my sister from JFK to ICN earlier this year on the new OZ F. Her feedbacks are the service is very attentive and the seat, adequate but the catering is not superior to her other experience on LH F, which was daytime and flew out of Germany (aka. LH homebase). My sister is fairly picky when it comes to food and her specific comments re: OZ F catering is that while it looks nice, their western cuisine is somewhat bland. Maybe because serving it in air is hard, even lobster tastes like cardboard.

Also, OZ uses beef extensively because it is a popular Korean dish. However, some pax for health or religious reasons don't consume beef. This can be problematic when you fly OZ and you don't want beef. She did try to special order a non-beef meal service via the OZ call center in the U.S. and supposedly, they note her meal restriction. But she boarded, nothing was done about it because apperantly, OZ thinks there are two non-beef Western dishes loaded, so no need to request special meal.

It's hard to imagine how a First class service that doesn't serve caviar or adhering to pax's meal request can compete agains the Japanese carriers' F. Once you are airborne, you have 10~14 hours to drink to your heart content or even before you board, load yourself up in the F lounge with however other booze you want.

To the OP, if mileage program or loyalty is not an issue, I will go for JL F because you get:

- Caviar
- Possibly nicer seat/suite because it's newer
- Better lounge
- Better Japanese meal vs. the Korean meal, with the latter being just some very simple dishes

It's hard to imagine how a First class service that doesn't serve caviar or adhering to pax's meal request can compete agains the Japanese carriers' F.

I never had a problem requesting a special meal with OZ.

You guys all made some very compelling arguments. I appreciate all the insight. It was a tough call. I was literally one click away from booking JL, but at the last minute I switched to OZ. I've been on JL before, but not OZ, so I figured I might as well try something new. This way I also get an extra flight in F. Nothing wrong with that. Thanks again.

If the meal is MOST important it is a "no-brainer".
If you like Japanese food, fly JAL.
If you like Korean, fly OZ.
Both have EXCELLENT food of high quality, with menus from their
respective cultures.
I actually prefer the food on OZ (JAL's F food can be quite "odd" at times). It is always fresh, served hot, and with VERY nice serviceware (little animals on the plates and bowls - very cute) - this versus boring JAL's new all-white serviceware in F (no style at all).

I believe this is correct. Once, I was taking cabin pictures in NH F prior to take off. It was obvious that the plane wasn't going to leave the gate anytime soon yet the purser came over and asked me to be sitted for some "security" reasons. She felt like a school teacher to me. ;)

That is really bad! Told not to take pictures - irritating.
I've never had this on JAL or ANA (and I always take lots of pics in F).
Have had this on SQ, questioned "Why are you taking so many pictures?" from the annoying FA.:confused:.
How about "Just leave me alone, stop staring at me, get on with your job, and let me enjoy my holidays!"?:D
It was as though she couldn't STAND watching someone have fun. That was my worst F experience EVER, NRT-LAX. SQ did not impress me at all.

I believe this is correct. Once, I was taking cabin pictures in NH F prior to take off. It was obvious that the plane wasn't going to leave the gate anytime soon yet the purser came over and asked me to be sitted for some "security" reasons. She felt like a school teacher to me. ;)

Well, did the fasten seat belt light on ?

You may not know, but there is a rule for all airlines, everyone must be seated before the plane can leave the gate, if anyone see that, the airline is going to be reported and fined, and then somone is also going to start a thread here about "FA allow pax to stand up while taxi"

Or are you just thinking you are flying F, then you can do whatever you want ? You cannot take the cabin picture once the plane is airborne ?

re: OZ F catering is that while it looks nice, their western cuisine is somewhat bland. Maybe because serving it in air is hard, even lobster tastes like cardboard.

It's hard to imagine how a First class service that doesn't serve caviar or adhering to pax's meal request can compete agains the Japanese carriers' F. Once you are airborne, you have 10~14 hours to drink to your heart content or even before you board, load yourself up in the F lounge with however other booze you want.

- Caviar
- Possibly nicer seat/suite because it's newer
- Better lounge
- Better Japanese meal vs. the Korean meal, with the latter being just some very simple dishes

I can't believe you use someone's comment for your own to change a 1st grade airline to a third grade airline.

I had loster in OZ F long haul and short haul, it did not taste like cardboard, taste as good as SQ. The OZ F or C lounge are both nice in ICN, comparable quality to the former SQ lounge in ICN.

Personally, I don't know what do you mean by korean meal has very simple dishes than Japanese meal. Are you Japanese ? Korean meal may not use those nice Japanese plates for food. But if you ever have Royal Korean meal from OZ long haul F, you would know each have their own style, it has ten different trays of appetizers/side dishes all on a wooden tray with metal chopsticks.

I don't know what have OZ done to you, but if you don't like korean food, then just leave this board alone, no need to trash this 5 star airline, on top of you have not even flown with OZ before.

If you can fly PVG-ICN-JFK I would definitely choose OZ over PVG-NRT-JFK on JL.
You even get F class food/wine/service on PVG-ICN. The F lounge in ICN is comparable to the JL lounge in NRT. OZ spend more on food/wine and their wine list is the BEST of all airlines (incl. CX, SQ & NH, although NH is impressive). Service is outstanding. IMO, F experience on OZ is best. The only drawback is a decent seat (not a suite) and poor AVOD.
But if you have to do PVG-NRT-ICN-JFK, the added quality of OZ does not justify the additional leg NRT-ICN.

That is really bad! Told not to take pictures - irritating.
I've never had this on JAL or ANA (and I always take lots of pics in F).
Have had this on SQ, questioned "Why are you taking so many pictures?" from the annoying FA.:confused:.

I know JAL and ANA have similar "rules," when you board ANA(probably JAL too) planes you cannot use your mobile phone. This is before take off, before they close the plane door. I thought like most carriers one can use mobile phone until they close the plane door, not on Japanese carriers. Also, as a passenger on ANA/JAL Biz/F class I felt like I have to follow so many Japanese rules and felt uncomfortable about it. On the other hand, OZ has more "relaxed" vibe which I prefer.

It's not an easy choice but I'd take OZ F:
1) Excellent service, though JL is comparable. Neither can guarantee you a good English speaker, but that doesn't matter to me.
2) Actually useful gifts on OZ (usually), like a set of Wedgewood wine stoppers on my last flight.
3) The Korean Royal Meals on ICN-US flights in F are amazing--some of the best food I've ever had on an airplane. Lots of different choices, a stunning array of side dishes too. Even the other Korean pax onboard were envious of my fish meal. :)
4) As opposed to JL, you can get F Class on some OZ intra-Asia flights (PEK, PVG, HKG, NRT), and service is excellent. JL's intra-Asia J is just OK, nothing special.
5) F Lounge at ICN, while not amazing, is usually almost empty--plus, usually you are escorted to the gate, and board before anyone else boards the plane. Not sure if you can even use JL F lounge when arriving in F, departing in J.
6)

F Lounge at ICN, while not amazing, is usually almost empty--

I was in the OZ F lounge yesterday and they have just finished construction on the window side.

There are now half a dozen "library suites" with two high-back chairs and a table in between wood dividers filled with books.

It feels much more open and spacious now.

You guys all made some very compelling arguments. I appreciate all the insight. It was a tough call. I was literally one click away from booking JL, but at the last minute I switched to OZ. I've been on JL before, but not OZ, so I figured I might as well try something new. This way I also get an extra flight in F. Nothing wrong with that. Thanks again.

Also, don't forget about Asiana's award-winning cabin crews--they really do care about their passengers and they have an unsurpassed aura of graciousness. On the other hand, it has been my experience that JAL cabin crews are cold and indifferent.

OP here.

I just completed OZ F NRT-ICN-JFK. And I must say, I was impressed.

Some random observations:

1. The service is elegant. More so than SQ, CX or NH. Nuts are dished out at your seat. Enough said.
2. The crew shows a true sincerity in providing the best experience they can for you. They were professional, efficient, warm, and engaging.
3. The seat is very good. Not the best, but I did sleep for 8 hours, so it did it's job. Mind you, I had just flown 3 flights on CX's new F suite which is HUGE, so OZ's F seat did seem a bit small to me. But it is good.
4. The food and beverage were first rate. I really enjoyed the extra courses served, like the scallop risotto that is listed as the "First Main", only to be followed by your actual main course.
5. The ground handling is excellent. Being escorted from check-in to lounge and from lounge to aircraft is a very nice touch.

There are so many other points that I could bring up, but others have written great trip reports that do the OZ F experience justice.

Would I fly them again? In a heartbeat. I still want to give JL's new F suite a try, but I'm a happy camper. Now I'm just waiting for all those miles to post in my BD account!

There are so many other points that I could bring up, but others have written great trip reports that do the OZ F experience justice.

Would I fly them again? In a heartbeat. I still want to give JL's new F suite a try, but I'm a happy camper. Now I'm just waiting for all those miles to post in my BD account!

Jl F is excellent. Better than NH in my opinion.

But like you mention, OZ has become my favorite F carrier.