US Airways Dividend Miles - (Lack of) Customer Service

I just read the thread here "Why is US alienating its business travelers?"

You can read similar threads on any airline board - domestic at least - except maybe WN, which doesn't really have a business traveler product.

If you go to a restaurant and they burn your steak, or even just serve you a bad one, they apologize and bring you a new one. With an airline, they tell you "It was the butcher's fault, not the kitchen's, too bad for you."

But that's what they ALL do. They all have their "enhancements." They are ALL racing to the bottom. They ALL do the minimum required. As for the FF programs, they ALL have their strange ways of approaching things. To be fair, US sent me the BePreferred invite for no discernable reason, and this weekend, on my first trip on US (which I would have taken anyway, because they were cheapest) I got upgraded on 3 or 4 segments, as a mere silver.

We can vent, but where can we go? If, say, Ruth's Chris Steak House started a policy of "The customer is always wrong" we'd all quickly go to Morton's or Del Frisco's. The only legitimate beef we would have is if they rapidly and materially devalued our miles, like waking up one morning and finding a domestic RT was 150K miles. As I recall, back in the late 90's, when the airlines mostly went from 20K to 25K and changed the parameters on capacity controls and blackout dates, I think they had some kind of negotiations with the association of state attorneys general. The program conditions always say "We can change it at anytime" but there's a line where it becomes fraud, so they did something the states found acceptable. I remember that I had "old" miles on United that I could redeem under their old award structure (120K for TWO RT first-class to Australia!) for a certain number of years.

I have hardly ever flown *A, but from what I'm told (a) they do not upgrade silvers but (b) award availability at the 25K level is pretty good. Delta still gives 500 mile minimum but doesn't qualify by segments. Some US 757 configurations are coach even in front of the middle boarding door, meaning fewer upgrades available in the fleet. They all choose the mix of what they think will generate traffic. Someone told me that US wasn't so much trying to make money at $2 for a can of soda as get the weight down by carrying 20 sodas on a flight instead of 200. AFAIK, DL requires you to be gold to switch flights the same day with no fee (Same-day confirmed) while US will let you standby for free as a silver - but US's change fee is $150, while DL is $100.

I guess we should be happy that there's some diversity out there, that lets us go with the airline that's best for how we travel.

But that's what they ALL do. They all have their "enhancements." They are ALL racing to the bottom. They ALL do the minimum required. As for the FF programs, they ALL have their strange ways of approaching things.

Aye, but some also try to be less of a PITA about it, but it all depends on what you want/expect out of your airline. I personally rarely use my miles for any personal travel and instead gift trips to friends/family/co-workers; but I still need to be building miles so an airline that gives me 500 mile minimums and 100% bonuses is good for me.

Since I'm looking to log about 280,000 miles this year all told, I also like to be sitting at the front of the bus when I can... That's why I pick airlines that have generous First/Biz cabins so I don't have to gnaw on my fingernails awaiting my fate.

I like decent meals while sitting at the front of the bus.

I like my coat/jacket hung up for me in the closet.

I like power for my laptop so I can work on the flight.

I like PTV's so I can watch Sports Center while I work.

As you can see, from my list of "likes", US really isn't a viable option for me any more.

To be fair, US sent me the BePreferred invite for no discernable reason, and this weekend, on my first trip on US (which I would have taken anyway, because they were cheapest) I got upgraded on 3 or 4 segments, as a mere silver.

That is because all of the elite have left for other airlines. For very good reason (s).

.Some US 757 configurations are coach even in front of the middle boarding door, meaning fewer upgrades available in the fleet. They all choose the mix of what they think will generate traffic. Someone told me that US wasn't so much trying to make money at $2 for a can of soda as get the weight down by carrying 20 sodas on a flight instead of 200.
US Airways uses their 757's on the vacation routes, which is to say from a hub to some destination in Florida, or LAS. They do not think that a lot of business travelers will be on those flights, so they fly with 8 seats in F. I have gotten a few upgrades on these flights, but it is tougher. They do not generally use the 757 on normal routes, as they do not have that many of them.

I have heard from several flyers that US gets flak from the *A for their lack of F seats in their planes. Compared to the rest of the *A members, they do not offer the same level of First Class seating, and the quality is not as high.

US claims that the recent changes to drink pricing has been a positive, as it keeps the cabin cleaner. This is true. I have noticed that very few people even buy a drink in coach. So few, in fact, that they don't even use the cart anymore. The FA's just serve from a tray. On shorter flights, the lack of a drink is not a big deal. On longer flights, it is a bit of a problem.

Originally the FA's union decried the measure as turning their members into cashiers. Now that the reality is they serve very few drinks at all, I wonder what the FA's and their union feel about the policy. I have noticed that FC FA's are getting very lax in offering drink refills. About 30% of the time, I don't get offered a drink pre-flight.

I just read the thread here "Why is US alienating its business travelers?"

You can read similar threads on any airline board - domestic at least - except maybe WN, which doesn't really have a business traveler product.

If you go to a restaurant and they burn your steak, or even just serve you a bad one, they apologize and bring you a new one. With an airline, they tell you "It was the butcher's fault, not the kitchen's, too bad for you."

But that's what they ALL do. They all have their "enhancements." They are ALL racing to the bottom. They ALL do the minimum required. As for the FF programs, they ALL have their strange ways of approaching things. To be fair, US sent me the BePreferred invite for no discernable reason, and this weekend, on my first trip on US (which I would have taken anyway, because they were cheapest) I got upgraded on 3 or 4 segments, as a mere silver.

We can vent, but where can we go? If, say, Ruth's Chris Steak House started a policy of "The customer is always wrong" we'd all quickly go to Morton's or Del Frisco's. The only legitimate beef we would have is if they rapidly and materially devalued our miles, like waking up one morning and finding a domestic RT was 150K miles. As I recall, back in the late 90's, when the airlines mostly went from 20K to 25K and changed the parameters on capacity controls and blackout dates, I think they had some kind of negotiations with the association of state attorneys general. The program conditions always say "We can change it at anytime" but there's a line where it becomes fraud, so they did something the states found acceptable. I remember that I had "old" miles on United that I could redeem under their old award structure (120K for TWO RT first-class to Australia!) for a certain number of years.

I have hardly ever flown *A, but from what I'm told (a) they do not upgrade silvers but (b) award availability at the 25K level is pretty good. Delta still gives 500 mile minimum but doesn't qualify by segments. Some US 757 configurations are coach even in front of the middle boarding door, meaning fewer upgrades available in the fleet. They all choose the mix of what they think will generate traffic. Someone told me that US wasn't so much trying to make money at $2 for a can of soda as get the weight down by carrying 20 sodas on a flight instead of 200. AFAIK, DL requires you to be gold to switch flights the same day with no fee (Same-day confirmed) while US will let you standby for free as a silver - but US's change fee is $150, while DL is $100.

I guess we should be happy that there's some diversity out there, that lets us go with the airline that's best for how we travel.

And if you feel that US is your best option, then power to you, my friend. Everyone has different tolerances and different travel requirements and acceptable levels of quality and service. If US is suiting yours, then it's a good fit.

But, don't begrudge those who have defected. We have our reasons, and they are valid to us.

I just read the thread here "Why is US alienating its business travelers?"

You can read similar threads on any airline board - domestic at least - except maybe WN, which doesn't really have a business traveler product.That is perhaps, the most false statement I've ever read on these boards.

WN absolutely, positively, with a 110% degree of certainty not only has a "business traveler product," but in many, many ways, it is vastly superior to US Airways.

The silliness of all these "business travelers" suggesting that WN is a poor option or doesn't have a good business traveler's product is something I guess I'm on a mission to snuff out.

I have heard from several flyers that US gets flak from the *A for their lack of F seats in their planes. Compared to the rest of the *A members, they do not offer the same level of First Class seating, and the quality is not as high.


How would any flyer unless they are a part of managing the *A know about anything such as this?? Also aren't there foreign members of the *A that have "premium" cabins (on their own domestic aircraft) that really arent even premium except for maybe empty middle seats and a moveable curtain? Also if you look at UA as well as the soon to join CO (based on what I was seeing on seatuguru), they all have planes that actually have less seating in F than the same type of plane at US. Of course they have some planes with more seating but there are those that have less.

And if you feel that US is your best option, then power to you, my friend. Everyone has different tolerances and different travel requirements and acceptable levels of quality and service. If US is suiting yours, then it's a good fit.

But, don't begrudge those who have defected. We have our reasons, and they are valid to us.

I don't see where the OP was begrudging anybody. If the OP was doing so, I don't think he/she would have posted this, "I guess we should be happy that there's some diversity out there, that lets us go with the airline that's best for how we travel.".

That is perhaps, the most false statement I've ever read on these boards.

WN absolutely, positively, with a 110% degree of certainty not only has a "business traveler product," but in many, many ways, it is vastly superior to US Airways.

The silliness of all these "business travelers" suggesting that WN is a poor option or doesn't have a good business traveler's product is something I guess I'm on a mission to snuff out.

They do have a product but its still evolving. But I am curious, what are these many, many ways in which WN is so vastly superior to US? Yes they have some newer, cleaner planes and no they don't charge a change fee on tickets but what else?

They do have a product but its still evolving. But I am curious, what are these many, many ways in which WN is so vastly superior to US? Yes they have some newer, cleaner planes and no they don't charge a change fee on tickets but what else?

Off the top of my head:

1 - no fees for checked bags
2 - free drinks AND snacks
3 - non-surly FA's, GA's and CS
4 - amazingly OT departures and arrivals
5 - incredibly efficient boarding process

Off the top of my head:

1 - no fees for checked bags
2 - free drinks AND snacks
3 - non-surly FA's, GA's and CS
4 - amazingly OT departures and arrivals
5 - incredibly efficient boarding process


Ok, you are right about #1 (as long as you arent an elite member with US) and #2 (which isnt an issue to somebody who normally flies in first). With regards to #3, WN is not perfect by any means. They have plenty of bad apples just like anybody else. Ask a flight attendant with them (one not based in OAK) what they think of their OAK based counterparts. I'm sure you won't exactly hear the nicest remarks. With #4, I wouldn't exactly call their ontime record amazing because it sure isnt. With #5, their boarding process I wouldn't say is any more efficient than any other process. It does have it benefits when its properly enforced. But from at least my personal experience, thats not always the case.

They do have a product but its still evolving. But I am curious, what are these many, many ways in which WN is so vastly superior to US? Yes they have some newer, cleaner planes and no they don't charge a change fee on tickets but what else?
charliebrown...just out of curiosity, have you ever flown WN? If so, when is the last time you did? From where to where?

Off the top of my head:

1 - no fees for checked bags
2 - free drinks AND snacks
3 - non-surly FA's, GA's and CS
4 - amazingly OT departures and arrivals
5 - incredibly efficient boarding process
Let me add to this list...

6 - tickets are NEVER subject to a $100 or $150 change fee, VERY "business traveler" friendly.
7 - "ticketless travel" funds are good for a year, at 100% of value, meaning you never lose your money, even if you pay a rock bottom fare, VERY "business traveler" friendly
8 - gate areas in many cities have special seating which have big, comfortable leather chairs featuring plugs and ports in EVERY seat, VERY "business traveler" friendly.
9 - one NEVER needs to pay extra for a seat...and provided one either buys "business select" or understands/remembers to get their BP as soon as check-in is allowed, you will have your choice of seat, 90% of the time. (Of note, I have have NOTHING less than "emergency exit row" in at least 2 years. I can not remember when I last did not have an emergency exit row)

10 - Better, more comfortable seating on board...all leather, better pitch than any domestic Y product except B6 and UA E+ - VERY "business traveler" friendly.

11 - When you earn a reward, they send you a coupon book which has about 3 or 4 beers in it (can't remember exactly) And when you opt to actually purchase an adult beverage, it's not $7.00

How many more ways would anyone like me to prove that WN is a vastly, vastly, VASTLY superior "business traveler" product than Screw S Scareways???

I run into people all the time that think it's a poor product for a business traveler...and I may have agreed prior to "Business Select" and the new boarding procedure...but now, with the new seating system, they are WAY better than everyone else in aviation. EVERYONE.

charliebrown...just out of curiosity, have you ever flown WN? If so, when is the last time you did? From where to where?


Let me add to this list...

6 - tickets are NEVER subject to a $100 or $150 change fee, VERY "business traveler" friendly.
7 - "ticketless travel" funds are good for a year, at 100% of value, meaning you never lose your money, even if you pay a rock bottom fare, VERY "business traveler" friendly
8 - gate areas in many cities have special seating which have big, comfortable leather chairs featuring plugs and ports in EVERY seat, VERY "business traveler" friendly.
9 - one NEVER needs to pay extra for a seat...and provided one either buys "business select" or understands/remembers to get their BP as soon as check-in is allowed, you will have your choice of seat, 90% of the time. (Of note, I have have NOTHING less than "emergency exit row" in at least 2 years. I can not remember when I last did not have an emergency exit row)

10 - Better, more comfortable seating on board...all leather, better pitch than any domestic Y product except B6 and UA E+ - VERY "business traveler" friendly.

11 - When you earn a reward, they send you a coupon book which has about 3 or 4 beers in it (can't remember exactly) And when you opt to actually purchase an adult beverage, it's not $7.00

How many more ways would anyone like me to prove that WN is a vastly, vastly, VASTLY superior "business traveler" product than Screw S Scareways???

I run into people all the time that think it's a poor product for a business traveler...and I may have agreed prior to "Business Select" and the new boarding procedure...but now, with the new seating system, they are WAY better than everyone else in aviation. EVERYONE.

First of all, not that I need to answer to you, I have flown on WN before. I don't fly 100s of time a year on them but I do fly on them usually its only if they have a flight available when a preferred airline is sold out.

A couple of things, I already mentioned #6 also #6 & #7 are the same thing presented in a different way. Also with #9 while true, you don't necessarily have to pay extra for a preferred seat assignment, offering that option to some is preferred as it allows you to know you'll know you have the extra bit of leg room, your family is seated together, etc.

It all boils down to agains whats more valued to somebody. However at least personally, my biggest sticking points with WN are their poor handling of irregular ops, lack of interline agreements with other airlines (especially when it comes to irregular ops as well as baggage transfers) and a frequent flyer program that lacks the variety of destinations as *A, SkyTeam, One World, etc. Also I'll still say the lack of assigned seating is a big negative for me (yes the BS fare thing does help but its still not perfect).

It all boils down to agains whats more valued to somebody. However at least personally, my biggest sticking points with WN are their poor handling of irregular ops, lack of interline agreements with other airlines (especially when it comes to irregular ops as well as baggage transfers) and a frequent flyer program that lacks the variety of destinations as *A, SkyTeam, One World, etc. Also I'll still say the lack of assigned seating is a big negative for me (yes the BS fare thing does help but its still not perfect).

charliebrown - these are fair and valid comments....no doubt, especially the interline agreements, alliances and FF destinations. HOWEVER, remember that with the "new and enhanced" US DM program...it will take you many times longer to get that "award ticket" on SQ or LH.

I still find the "lack of assigned seating" thing interesting...bordering on "closed mind amazement." And you aren't alone with it.

Consider this....you find out, with 24 to 48 hours notice, you need to fly SFO-OKC....you dial into (insert every other airline name here) to find (a.) the tickets are OBSCENELY expensive and (b.) the only seats that can be "assigned" are middle seats...or NONE at all can be assigned. So, suddenly, you are paying $599 for a middle seat...or no seat.

Now consider WN....you dial into buy your ticket...you buy Business Select, you are GUARANTEED an A bp...or, you find a less expensive option and you check in 23:59 prior to departure, out pops an A bp, probably A-45 or something...and guess what? You are absolutely NOT going to be stuck with a crappy "assigned seat" unless you show to the airport way late. Show 30 minutes prior and you're good.

I will agree, prior to them fixing the system, WN was a turn off to me. But now that they've fixed it so I don't have to go stand there for 2 hours waiting, it's pretty darned good.

First of all, not that I need to answer to you, I have flown on WN before. I don't fly 100s of time a year on them but I do fly on them usually its only if they have a flight available when a preferred airline is sold out.
No....you don't have to answer to me or anyone...but it's hard to have a productive conversation without understanding where someone's coming from.

And I use to fly WN when there was no other option. Not so anymore. I use CO for nearly all long haul travel....and also short haul where time and price makes sense. I use WN when I can for mid-con or shorter. The product is that much better.

I avoid US like I avoid contact with most deadly viruses....I fly them under two options only:

1.) There is no other way from point A to point B.
2.) The price is so insanely cheap, I'd be a complete moron not to take it.

I pretty much won't get on a US airplane long haul...period. I would actually rather sit WN Emergency Exit than sit in Screw S Scareways Faux Class....

What WN has done is made it much more palatable for the business traveler and pro-active leisure traveler to fly them, because with a bit of effort they can virtually guarantee a desirable seat.

That being said, however, I would not fly them on anything other than a nonstop. A late arriving flight can really screw up your chances of scoring a good seat on the connection. This is where advance seat assignments would really be a huge plus.

But, don't begrudge those who have defected. We have our reasons, and they are valid to us.

Why not? Most of you spend too much time begrudging US Airways! If you are so happy with your choice, then go praise your new airline on the other boards and stay the hell away from here with your daily dribble. What a sad existence some here lead!!

charliebrown,

What does it mean your status is "suspended"? Are you a US employee?

Why not? Most of you spend too much time begrudging US Airways! If you are so happy with your choice, then go praise your new airline on the other boards and stay the hell away from here with your daily dribble. What a sad existence some here lead!!
I believe sad is exactly what some of us feel. I will be leaving for DL next year, and I do it with somewhat of a heavy heart. Having just spent 27 years living in PA, the US Airways brand was something most of us knew and appreciated. US Airways used to be heavily represented in PA between PIT and PHL. I have a cousin who is a US FA. We talks sometimes, and she is also saddened to see where things are going. Believe me, the negative passion you see represented in some of these posters used to be positive passion.

I won't say that everyone's posting is as objective as it should be, but you can not deny the intent, and the fact that if US would reverse some of their recent changes, it would show a lot of good will on their part. More than any other airline in these trying economic times, US has made their FF's feel that they are part of the problem, and it would be okay with the airline if they just go away. Nobody is buying the drivel that the DM program has been "enhanced". That builds a lot of negative feelings.

I don't know if you are a US employee or not, but if you are, I feel your pain. It is hard to take a US flight, and not feel some empathy for the employees.

They do have a product but its still evolving. But I am curious, what are these many, many ways in which WN is so vastly superior to US? Yes they have some newer, cleaner planes and no they don't charge a change fee on tickets but what else?
WN provides a lot of routes that all of the other airlines don't, not just US. I just took a day trip from JAX to FLL on the 12th, and I can tell you that the plane was almost entirely business travelers. I didn't see one stroller on the jetway.

Go ahead and do a search for that route, and you will see that none of the legacy airlines will even give you a quote for that route. If they do, it will be for a crazy price. In that regard, WN is hitting a market that the other airlines, including US, don't even want to compete in, which is direct intra-State routes. The lack of a hub and spoke approach to their flight schedules is what makes them different. If they have service to destinations that fit your travel needs, they are definitely worth a look. If they don't serve your airport, or you are hung up on first class upgrades, they are not your airline. I don't fly them often, but when I do, I don't miss a thing.