TalkBoard Elections/08 - Question 7: When Disagreeing with Randy?

submitted by magiciansampras
I'd like to know what the TalkBoard should do when it disagrees with Randy on something.

submitted by magiciansampras
I'd like to know what the TalkBoard should do when it disagrees with Randy on something.

If Randy has considered the matter based on all available information and made a decision, the TalkBoard should consider that decision final. Further discussion or dissent is disrespectful to Randy and a waste of everyone's time.

If circumstances change significantly, the TalkBoard can consider re-opening discussion.

You know:
God, give us grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed, courage to change the things that should be changed, and the wisdom to distinguish the one from the other.

This is a great question!


I think that disagreeing with Randy is ok. We should voice our opinion in the proper forum - regarding the merits of the issue, not Randy himself.

True, you may find it necessery to say 10 Hail Marys after this...

but seriously - is is important to have an open communication between the talk board and Randy regarding the issues. Mr. Peterson of course has his own rights and powers and is always honest about his communications (for example the way he did come and explain when he had to remove a member from the talk board... While not giving the exact reasons he did communicate that he did not do it lightly.. )

My bottom line is (and i promise that if this wasn't after 1am where i'm located i would have written a much better phrased answer) that as long as there is open communications on the merits of an issue, a debate should always be welcomed - regardless of the person.

Why shouldn't it be anything less than okay? Everyone here, I hope, who has put their name in the TalkBoard hat understands how things are done with TalkBoard.

I don't expect Randy to agree 100% with what I or the TalkBoard would say, and if there's a disagreement, and if I feel adamant about something, I would communicate with Randy further about it to perhaps solicit feedback on his thinking, reply if it's warranted, and accept his final decision.

Being on TalkBoard should come with thick skin, including the ability to realize there are going to be disagreements.

Flyertalk is not a democracy but a benevolent dictatorship headed by Randy. TalkBoard serves strictly in an advisory function. That said, the TalkBoard as well as individual members may certainly voice their opinions to Randy is a respectful manner. While Randy generally makes good decisions, there has been some that I did not agree with initially but have come around to his view and a very few where we still disagree.

There is no such thing as disagreement in TalkBoard, its just folk with different views....;)

If TB have a different view from Randy then they should talk about it in a civil manner and look at all the options then debate it.

Having disagreed with Randy on a number of issues over the years (most recently this very afternoon via PM!), I can vouch for the fact that he is very good about treating everyone's input as valued before making decisions. He doesn't victimise people for dissent. If someone disagrees with him on any issue, they should make their disagreement known in a civil fashion.

It depends on how much it disagrees & whether its the TB as a whole or just one member...

If the TB, as a group, disagrees with Randy, then it should attempt to persuade Randy through logicial & rational reasoning. If its one member, they should probably get the support of other members before going forth.

I also think its important to recognize that the TB serves at Randy's pleasure and whereas we're an elected board to represent member intersest, it's an advisory board and Randy has the ability (and wisdom) to do as he sees fit. Now, there may be some things that we are in fundamental disagreement with & Randy may not consult with TB on all matters (such as the recent OMNI changes) - but it's still his proverbial sandbox.

That's easy: respectfully, but directly, bring the disagreement to Randy, along with a clear and sound explanation of the basis for the disagreement.

FlyerTalk is Randy's sandbox, and I am grateful that he allows me to play in it. However, I am here precisely because he's created an amazing on-line community. If he should take a step that, we think, is contrary to best interests of the FlyerTalk community, it is essential that we let him know. And, of course, the fact that there is a TalkBoard at all confirms Randy's desire to receive input from the membership. I've certainly never been shy about communicating my thoughts directly to Randy via PM as a member. There's no reason to be any more reticent as a TalkBoard representative.

TalkBoard shouldn't be (and, I don't think has been) a rubber stamp for Randy, and I sincerely doubt Randy wants it to be.

It's ok to disagree with Randy.

However, there are times when he makes a call and we should respect that decision, especially if it's a relatively trivial or cosmetic matter like the blue banner for the options. ;)

If it's an important matter, the TalkBoard collectively or any TalkBoard member should respectfully communicate that decision to Randy.

Someone said in a recent chat, "FT is a benevolent dictatorship". I think TB's role is to stand up to anyone (including Randy) on any issue that the community feels strongly about. But we also need to be able to deal with Randy disagreeing on an issue and choosing a different direction.

That being said, I haven't seen too many things that Randy hasn't been willing to listen to us on.

More realistically - I am generally in agreement with Randy on major issues, but he and I have had healthy respectful disagreements over the years on minor issues. I have changed my views on some things thanks to his input. For ex. I used to be one of the factions that would like to have OMNI just disappear - but Randy's obvious affection for the forum really swayed me and now I enjoy it.

However, that's not the same question as what should the TALK BOARD do if they disagree with Randy. As others have stated, if several TB members disagree with a decision I expect they will be vocal in asking Randy to reconsider. In my experience with Randy and living with his decisions, I have found him to a thoughtful concerned decision maker who considers many points of view before deciding. (sometimes to members' frustration when a decision is anxiously expected)

But it also depends on the disagreement - as I have mentioned in my platform, we are navigating strange waters with the IB/FT relationship. Randy obviously makes some decisions on his own but some may be mitigated or affected by IB's ownership, and that is a level of confusion I hope to help work on if I am elected.

submitted by magiciansampras
I'd like to know what the TalkBoard should do when it disagrees with Randy on something.

I hate to sound like I live in the world of a dictatorship but, when the boss says jump, I say, how high?

I work in a government business where I work as part of a team that relies on the judgment of our team leader. In my career, taking the chance of questioning a decision or an order can lead to injury or death of one of my team members.

Not saying that FT is a matter of life & death but, a decision is a decision. The only time something should questioned on FT in my opinion is, when a financial burden may be incurred or safety of a member is at risk.

Lets all just try and get along and use this resource the way it was meant to.
If you are a member to be a contributing member and think along my lines, I would appreciate your vote.

It's ok to disagree with the one or other person from time to time.

The Talk Board is there to express the opinion in the best interest of the FlyerTalk members and each TB members individual belief.

Think of Talk Board like Randys advisors when it comes to FT. His eyes and ears everyday in each little subforum. Every little aspect will lead to a reasonable decision, everyone who knows Randy will agree that something as big as Flyertalk doesnt work as a 100% independent democracy.

Randy is the one with the final decision. But these decisions are certainly being made in consideration of the Talk Board advise.

antidisestablishmentarianism

With Randy having sold FT to Internet Brands I think we really need to refer to IB rather than Randy in this question. As I see it whilst Randy may well be the GM of IB's train set and generally the boss - he is now subject to pressure from IB and no longer has the absolute final say on things.

It's inevitable that there will be recommendations TB make that won't be accepted and that's where what we would term disagreements will be. But that's fine - TB, and indeed every FTer, needs to remember that FT is IB's train set and whether we like what they do with FT or not as long as it's legal they have the freedom to do it.

The important thing is to maintain civility and for TB to remind itself that it's an advisory body rather than a body with power - indeed it might be wise for TB to remind itself of this a little more often by perhaps phrasing motions along the lines of 'TB recommends that Randy...'.

IB might own Flyertalk now but Randy still has the same role.

Personally, I think we all live in a benign dictatorship at Flyertalk - no bad thing in the light of what has been achieved on the board.

Whilst FT is important to me - as witnessed by my volunteering as a Mod - it is not my whole world. That helps keep disagreements with Randy to a minimum.

I have disagreed with Randy before. I will disagree with him again.

As a TalkBoard member, I can express my disagreement with him privately or publicly (within the TOS), just as I can right now. With "TB Member" under my name, I would not wish to represent TalkBoard in a negative way, hence I would be less likely to post publicly and if I did, I would be a bit more careful in my wording.

The TalkBoard itself represents FT *members*. If Randy implemented something that seemed egregious to a large number of members such that members are communicating this back via threads or via TalkBoard Topics or via PM, I think it's incumbent on the TB to address these issues and determine AS A GROUP whether they wish to approach Randy.

For example, Randy has been very, very quiet on his decision to throw open OMNI to everyone. He has not posted (last check, anyway) on a very long thread in his own forum decrying this decision. As a member of TB, I would've brought this up in the private forum and tried to get consensus on whether to approach Randy and encourage him to respond to the thread to at least explain his decision or communicate whether he's thinking about reconsidering. (Acting as an advisor to the host -- yup, I think that's within the purview of the TalkBoard as it sits now.)

But I'll continue to disagree with Randy from time to time and will use the proper medium to communicate that. I think Randy deserves nothing less from advisors (or even FT members). It doesn't help anything if people are afraid to tell the emperor to put on a pair of pants.

If I think he's wrong, I'll be happy to tell him, but at the end of the day he's the one with the stars on his shoulders.

Let's be serious (but not too serious).

This is an Advisory Board...not Management. While the TalkBoard may have the ability to influence and make a difference, it has no authority.

As far as I know, Randy welcomes different perspectives, but disagreements with Randy should have no consequence.

If anything, we need to lighten up...sometimes this place (FlyerTalk) gets much too serious and people take what goes a little too seriously, IMO.

Question 7: When Disagreeing with Randy?


Sit at the bar in a huddle drink lots of red wine and then talk about how much better we could run things. Hit the gin and then talk about overthrowing him or the government. The same applies to how we could be better sportsman as xxx star,

If the above doesn’t work then have a debate amongst other members and present a joint and reasoned argument to Randy.

To disagree is very natural, but what I hope would be even more natural for us as a group of adults is that we speak, write, and post in a manner that we know to be courteous and correct.

I think many of us here feel that to disagree is fine but that we must, in every instance address the issue in polite terms, in respectful terms, and using the specified communication channels.

I believe to choose me or any of us for TB, you are saying to us, “I trust you to speak up and point out alternatives to the status quo.” That may from time to time conflict with an idea held or communicated by Randy. So be it. I do not think he would have put TB together in the first place if he did not want a better possibility to discover what people are thinking. He trusts us to be adults and to respect him as he does us. If we do that I believe he would invite our opinions and welcome our frankness and honesty.