United Mileage Plus - Upgrade-Requests: Premier versus UA-employee's

If we (1K, Premier Exe, Premier) are on the upgrade-waiting list (confirmabel 100/72/24 hours), how does that compare/conflict with UA-employee's chances to be upgraded?

This is completely anecdotal, but based on what I have seen, the priority seems to go 1k, pe, pilots, p, flight attendants...At least based on what I have observed waiting for gate upgrades last year as p and this as pe...

I agree with Matt Wald but with this exception, 1k pilots, flight attendants pe and p, for what ever seats are availabe at the gate. I only fly a couple of dozen domestict flights a year, but this has been my observation concerning upgrades at the gate.

Internationally I recently flew a direct flight to Hong Kong and two thirds of the First Class seats were occupied by uniformed UA personel. It stands to reason that UA employees are going to show a greater preference to their co-workers rather then the paying public.

Though it would be nice if every once in awhile the UA gate people would pick at random some 1k, pe or p member and surprise the poor sod with a complimentery upgrade to the next class of service. But at least in my experince this practice seems to be a thing of the past.

I think to be fare to the UA gate people they always look stressed out of their minds ( to few people to do the job at the gates properly) to even think about a upgrade isn't at the top of their priority list.

On my last couple of flights, all domestic
there was a mix of the 1k's, Executives and
a few United workers in First and to my
surprise United workers in the first row of
coach. I was even more surprised that my
last five upgrades went through.

There were two pilots in the first row of
coach and a pilot training instructor next
to me. He told me it depends on if the
employees have long haul flights or short
turnaround for going to first... noting "they need the rest."

On my last trip to Hong Kong I strolled around the plane and found a section between
coach and business class where there were a group of seats a large curtain and a sign
when curtain pulled "crew resting, please be
quiet." I got shussed once.

Continental to my surprise has three flight
attendants resting in the back seats in COACH
and a pilot snoring in the seat next to me
also in COACH.

For the record: this was the continental flight from Newark to Houston. There were also a lot of angry business travelers that
First filled fast.

I, for one, am glad to learn that United air crew get priority for first or business class seats. Think about it - if they had to fly back in coach they would become extremely irritable, perhaps even psychotic, and do we really want people in that frame of mind to have control of our airplane?

All transatlantic flights and transpacific I imagine have crew rest areas on United.

UA's 747(400) have a pilots bunk area behind the cockpit, and a flight crew bunk are in the tail of the aircraft. UA's 777 and 767 aircraft I beleive utilize passenger seats.

in eco (IAD-FRA or vice-versa) I noticed several times UA-active crew informing their travelling UA colleagues about empty-rows to occupy them (the whole lenght for sleeping-position) even befor "normal" people board.

And at the same time they can get quite nasty if you/I try to do that before their counting starts ....

But this is probably the same with any airline.

The more I think about it, the more it seems ok to me that these folks get whatever special treatment possible. After dealing with drunk, billigerent customers screaming about how **** important they are and why the he** don;t they get their upgrade,they wnat their da** pillow, blah, blah, blah, I figure the flight attendents deserve special treatment from colleagues when they deadhead. As for pilots, the happier they are, the happier I am!!

ok Matt ok - I agree: Airlines should in the future only "ship" their employees/retired employees/employees on vacation etc. etc. around the world - why should they care about costumers?

I don't see how having a rough day geting "pillows, dah, dah, dah" is any tougher than the normal business day or other day to day pressures that passengers have. As a Customer Service specialist, employees should never have priority over the General Public. I would tell them that it is a privilege to sit with our Coach customers. I would want them to experience coach travel just as our customers do. Then they would develope empathy towards just how rough it is for our passengers back in those tiny seats.

Alright already! I agree that as customers (esp. premex customers)that United ought to kiss our butts more than they do. But you will not dissuade me from the notion that ACTIVE flight attendants (whose primary job, as they so often say, is passenger safety) ought not get the treatment they do. Maybe I just appreciate their service more than you folks?... :)

I agree with Matt Wald about the Flight Attendants, but I also want to be sure that the Pilot is also a happy camper. Afterall these are the folks that in-case of a emergency that we as passengers have to count on to save our lives.

Even with all the complaints we as passengers might have about changes in UA's programs or crappy treatmeant we might have to endure from time to time. UA has one hell of a good record when it comes to Flight safety.

Lest we forget the Iowa DC-10 crash and the job those Pilots did in landing that plane.
Or more recently the (737) Pilot at O'Hare
about to take off and had a Fire Light come on, and imediately evacuated the Plane (the Light was Faulty).

It sure beats the Value Jet guy at Hartsfield, who wanted to make sure there was a Fire before ordering a evacuation of the Plane. Even though other aircraft crews could see flames coming from the Value Jet aircraft.

I not only appreciate the service I get but the Standard of training UA's Pilots receive.
I don't want a flight crew to Hesitate for One Second when it concerns Passenger Safety,
to worry about how much it is going to cost to repack the safety slides or replace the emergency exits.

My primary concern is safety, and if this means the flight crews get to sit up front so be it.

My primary concern is safety as well. But in all the reams and reams of research I've read on the airline industy, I've never seen anything to support the first class = safety theory as far as flight attendants go. It is not something that the Flight Attendants Union has insisted on. I'm sure that if they thought that this was important, it would be an issue. My point is not that PE's get special access to these seats...it's that ANY customer who pays for an upgrade (regardless of how he pays-money, points, certs), should get priority over employees. If there is an empty seat and no one wants to pay for an upgrade, fine, let a FA sit up there. Pilots are a different issue and I believe there are rules in place regarding traveling to a flight assignment to insure safety. But if they are deadheading, I've seen 'em in coach.



On the upgrade list, customers, any customer, should always come first, period. And I might add that this IS United's policy (although I too have seen my share of supect upgrade over the year, though it seems much less frequent these days).



Based on statistical emergency probablilities, it would not be rational to seat FA's in first based on the slight chance of a FA's performance being reduced by them not haveing flow in FC! Adreniline alone overcomes most problems focusing. If you want to talk about real safety issues, let's talk safer fuels, personal breathing equipment, backward facing seating, and a host of other issues.

PremExc,

Your points on safety issues is well taken, though the Human factor is still the most important.

The Fuel issue is one that I for one have never understood why the FAA has not required the use of military grade fuel in commercial passenger carrying flights.

As a former "white-knuckler" myself (its amazing how flying 70,000 miles a year can eliminate any nervousness about flying), I appreciate these safety comments -- many of which I was unaware of. Isn't there some group (air passenger's association??) that lobbies for these safety changes? Does anyone have more info about such a group?

there is one.
IAPA = International Airlines Passengers Association. http://www.iapa.co.uk/

The are (more or less) recognized by medias (often seen on CNN as discussion-partner on airline safety-issues) representing some 100'000 members.

I am a basic-member (I can use sometimes their rebates for hotels, I don't use any of their insurance-offers).

safety: I love this opness/approach of "our" UA (this is from USToday):

United lets passengers listen in Most airlines offer their passengers in-flight music. United Air Lines also lets them listen in to their pilot's radio communications.

In an offering that some passengers may find reassuring, and others less so, Channel 9 on the airline's in-seat audio system carries the flight crew's conversations with air traffic controllers.

The idea is not only to please aviation buffs who understand the staccato, jargon-filled transmissions, but to reassure nervous passengers that someone is hard at work up front looking after their safety.

''A lot of people have some apprehension when they fly,'' says Mary Jo Holland, a spokeswoman for United. Channel 9, she says, ''gives them a certain comfort zone.''

Suppose passengers hear over their headsets that there's an emergency aboard? Even then, says Hart Langer, United's senior vice president for operations, Channel 9 ''more often than not gets passengers involved in what's going on and provides a comfort factor.''

He cites an incident two years ago when a United DC-10 had one engine fail on a flight from Los Angeles to Washington. The captain told the passengers that the plane would have to return to Los Angeles and encouraged them to keep tuned to Channel 9 to follow the plane's progress. Listening in, Langer said, helped keep the passengers calm.

Madison Walton, a Boeing 727 captain at United, believes the calm, professional radio procedures pilots pride themselves on in emergencies can be especially comforting to passengers.

(Channel 9 doesn't carry pilots' private comments to each other in the cockpit.)

United believes it is the only airline now offering an air traffic channel. American had such an offering in the 1970s and early 80s, but dropped it when it rewired its planes and focus groups showed little passenger interest, spokesman John Hotard said.

Even on United, Channel 9 isn't guaranteed. ''There are some pilots who are a little antsy about doing this and they turn it off,'' Langer said.

Sound quality sometimes is poor. But even when it's clear, it still takes an almost professional knowledge of aviation and a lapful of charts to understand exactly what's going on.

Aside from self-evident terms like ''Clear for takeoff'' and ''Clear to land,'' most of the back-and-forth consists of pilot jargon, strings of numbers and geographical references that ordinary maps won't explain.

Passengers listening to Channel 9 aboard a plane recently approaching O'Hare airport in Chicago heard their flight being directed to ''Deana,'' but it would take an aeronautical chart to know that Deana is a point planes pass just before making an eastward landing. When pilots refer to ''flight level 24,'' they mean an altitude of 24,000 feet.

But even if passengers don't understand much, hearing their captain gives them confidence that ''there's a living, breathing human being up front'' looking after the flight, said Walton.

By Thomas Kent, Associated Press

I like listening in to the air/ground
communications channel on Channel 9. It's
often more entertaining than the movies or
the same music or other stuff on the music
channel. It gives me the sense that I'm
"flying" the plane.

And once upon a time I had a paralyzing fear
of planes. So what I did was buy a cheap
set of coach tickets and flew around teh world (EWR to London to Hong Kong to San Francisco to Mexico city to San Juan and
back to EWR.) It was the 80's and I was
on summer break from college. (Also on
Scholarship and no job prospects) It took
4 wks but I had a BLAST!

Kick myself now that I wish I was not "enlightened" about Frequent Flyer programs
until a few years ago. Imagine the miles
I missed!

But now I'm not afraid of planes or flying
or most other forms of transportations.

I am afraid of the mob of passengers chargin
the gate at teh same time! CATMAN

there were no miles yet to earn at that time.

and if I am first (for inner USA-flights I am practically always upgraded: the 100 hrs confirmable vouchers - as a European based fligher I have many of those and I can use them only on inner-USA-Canada-Mexico-Puerto Rico flights or I can exchange the unused one's, at the end of the year, against miles).

sorry- follow up (I missed to type in the last sentence):

And as first I don't mind to board after the stampede - why do you?

Rudi... don't worry about mistyping. You have
provided me (and other flyers) with some
valuable information.

I should not be bothered by the stampede. I
just like having a minute or two to calming
put my small backpack in the overhead and
not feel rushed through the tunnel and the
aisle. Some people are very impatient, even
a few in first class.

If it's really bad I try to wait if I'm in
first. In coach I normally end up getting
caught up in the "herd." CATMAN

Even if I am in eco I do nowadays everything to avoid beeing in the Stampede.

If I push/get pushed myself - and open my mouth - they start making jokes about "those pushy germans" and when I explain, that I may sound german, but that I am Swiss - they may answer "yes we know Sweden" (some years ago they said "yes we know Bjorn Borg"...) ....

So for my well-feeling, I have to avoid the stampede absolutely.

Like Channel 9? I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT! How else can you be sure if your flight will be bumpy or smooth? If you're number one for takeoff or number 21. If you'll be circling for 5 minutes or 65. If you've got a direct routing or a circuitous one. When I get on a plane and Channel 9 is music, my heart always sinks just a little bit!

And as for the cattle-call: it really only matters if you are in coach and have a big carry-on. Because those overhead bins fill in an instant. When I KNOW I'll be in coach, I try to check my bag (or even volunteer to gate-check it) and then smile with amusement as folks struggle to get a bin and then get their overstuffed bags into 'em! Otherwise, why rush to get on a plane and sit there for 30 minutes only to sit there for another 2-6 hours while you fly????

I think channel 9 should be standard on every flight. It's better than most of the movies
that they offer (and the Poppy music channels.) And like you said Matt I want to
know how long the delay will be to take off.

Also hope for upgrades... if only to turn around from front coach or first class and watch how normally civilized travelers turn
into snarling alley cats when Ms. Shopper
packs one or two big shopping bags of goodies
in the overhead and nobody else can get stuff
up there.

That's why I carry my Land Ends Bag (for Business) or the backpack (for leasure) as
carry one, check the one bag and that's it.
My back's not up for carrying any thing else.
CATMAN

More than 50% of my flights I can mangae with hand-luggage only.

But I ALWAYS want a (normally only tiny) place) to store it on board and "stay in charge of it" (medicine, computer-stuff, reading-material, tickets, sight-seeing-guide-books, and all the "things" for a first night and first meeting without checked-in bags, some mineral water to drink during waiting minutes/hours before take-off when sometimes nobody is serving).

My checked bags, which till now always arrived - but in about 3% of my flights between 4 to 24 hours late, delivered to my hotel (even hotels that were more than one and a half hour away from the airport).

For the Maui trip, I cashed in my miles and
luckily got upgraded all the way. I am not
jinxing myself by saying any more, just waiting to enjoy the flights (late september to early October.)

Rudi, you are a great traveler. I too keep the most important things in the backpack/briefcase (change of clothes, medicine, cameras and toiletries.) Most times I check the bigger bag just to be considerate of the other passengers.

Like my cats, I try not to take up much space. It can pay off on those trips when I
have to bring back those gifts (beer steins,
etc) and need an extra space. CATMAN

If a pilot is deadheading he gets preference over anyone.It's in united's contract with pilot's union.

Recently, on UA001 (LAX-HKG), on of 8 trans-Pacific crossings I've done in the month of Sept., 1998, I was denied a complimentery upgrade to Connoisseur class from economy while a UA stewardess was upgraded to Connoisseur. For my own part, I can say that this was a bit unnerving. I got the distinct impression that, since UA is now owned by its employees, they care more for themselves than the folks who are paying the freight. A clear example, in live, living color, of what an ESOP can do to the attitudes of the worker bees. When the ESOP went through, I said to myself 'United Socialist Airlines'. I also predicted that when pressed for an answer to the question of what ought to be done with extra operating cash, a typical UA flight attendant would opt for a raise in pay before any other customer-based need. Indeed, it is turning out to be true. You can see it in the attitudes of the front-line employees (most of them, most of the time). This is now, in the words of F.A. Hayek, 'production for use' and not 'production for profit'. Trouble is, it is one step worse because employees' attitudes and the general degree of concern I'm seeing reflect the dreariness that goes along with the 'production for use' idea. At the same time, however, UA still seems to want the 'production for profit' theme to be alive and well. Employees just don't seem to want to work for the money like they used to. I will make 1K for 1999 for the first time (up from 1P 1992-98); if I see that kind of preferential treatment given a (for all practical purposes) non-dismissable employee (regardless of her performance) again, though, it will be the end of my love affair with UA (which began after my first UA flight at age 3--37 years ago). On another note...hey, you guys are great. I'm happy to find a forum here to talk about UA MP specifically. Bonus: I'm not always this down on UA.

The only time I get mad over not getting an upgrade is when I am willing to pay for one (in the form of money, miles, certs, whatever), and do not clear the waitlist, and then see employees seated in business/first class. I do not feel that I should expect an upgrade just for being a PE or 1K if I am not willing to "pay" something for it. Upgrading employees is fine as long as they've taken care of any customer who wanted to pay for one. It has never been United's policy to upgrade PE's into a vacant business/first seat just because they are PE's (unless coach is oversold...then they do a status upgrade). They don't want you to avoid paying or using your banked miles for an upgrade with the hopes of getting a comp upgrade at the airport. This just makes good business sense. If you want a comp upgrade it is a gamble, and you should not expect it or be mad if you don't get it. If you want an upgrade, use those miles/certs that you earn. That's what they are there for. If you are lucky to get a comp upgrade, consider it a nice little extra perk of being a PE. IMHO.

hello, Jesuit! Nice to have a "man of the cloth" online here. I appreciate your treatise on employee-ownership at United. I've been looking for examples of both "positive empowerment" and "arrogant haughtyness" since the employee buyout. IMHO, things seem about the same. Some CS reps, both on the phone and at the airport are sweet and accomidating. Some are self-important a**es. Just like always. In fact, I have recently taken to my 5-year old's favorite tactic: "shopping for an answer." If I dont get what I want on the phone, I'll call back and talk to another CS Rep. If I still dont get what I want, I ask for it from the check-in agent. If they don't help, I ask at the RCC. If they dont help, I try the gate agent. If the lines is short, I'll even try the customer service desk near the gates. Usually, I eventually run into one of the "accomidators."

But Rudi has done the impossible: he found a way to turn the a**es into accomidators: bribe 'em with swiss chocolate!! :-)

Rudi hope you are having a great trip.For the record AA had cameras mounted on the wings so passengers could see takeoffs and landings.After dc-10 Chicago crash that was the end of that.
On UA employees,if a pilot is flying to go to an assignment he is allowed first class ua union contract.Otherwise he can only get to front if 1st class is not full after all upgrades have been called.Also all UA employees including flight attendants must be dressed in order to sit in first.If space is available and they are in jeans they cannot upgrade per contract.Write UA if you do not like policy.They will not change it but they will pay attention to you.

I was in First EWR-SFO-OGG and then OGG-SFO
and then after two days SFO-EWR (I flew
business since First was full with 1k's and
three honeymoon couples who paid for First.

To my surprise... No United Employees (at
least in Uniform) in First or Connisure.
In fact, on the SFO-EWR flight they upgraded
a few Premiers to Business and said they
had some upgraded seats available.

So it's hit or miss but this "employee upgrade" policy needs to be strictly monitored. CATMAN