Travel Technology - Kinda of travel related question: Can you suggest a generator for power outages?

I live in the Northeast and it gets pretty cold. In the winter it can get to 10 minus 0 F. That causes all kinds of problems and due to ice and snow can cause problems to power lines and power grids. While traveling, this can be a real problem if power goes down and pipes start freezing. I'm thinking of getting a generator that will automatically turn on incase the power goes down. Any suggestions?

That is very little information to do on :D

1) What do you want to power (how many watts), does this include an AC unit?
2) Are you willing to invest in a permanent unit with natural gas feed?
3) What heats the house? Is it gas or electric?

If you have a spare $6000, you can get a NG powered unit installed in the back on a nice concrete slab. It'll come with an automatic start/test and an automatic transfer switch.

That is very little information to do on :D

1) What do you want to power (how many watts), does this include an AC unit?
2) Are you willing to invest in a permanent unit with natural gas feed?
3) What heats the house? Is it gas or electric?

If you have a spare $6000, you can get a NG powered unit installed in the back on a nice concrete slab. It'll come with an automatic start/test and an automatic transfer switch.

Scott,

You are hilarious. Is there anything you don't know? :D You da man.

Let me answer some of your questions

1. I don't really know how many watts. I am most concerned about the furnace, electric hot water, frig, stove that is gas but with electrical read out, some lights, tv and internet. AC - not sure but that would be cool.

2. Permanent unit is cool because I think it would do the automatic thing so probably - offcourse cost would be an issue.

3. Gas heats the house but it the fan is electric.

Honda anyone? (http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/models.aspx?page=models&section=P2GG&category=home)

Not sure about how "remote" the remote start options are...

I would look into the Kohler or Guardian(generac engine) unit, homedepot has a good price on a 9000/10000W unit:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100628962&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=100628962&cm_mmc=1hd.com2froogle-_-product_feed-_-D25X-_-100628962

One note though is that the electric heaters use a LOT of power.

Scott,

You are hilarious. Is there anything you don't know? :D You da man.

Let me answer some of your questions

1. I don't really know how many watts. I am most concerned about the furnace, electric hot water, frig, stove that is gas but with electrical read out, some lights, tv and internet. AC - not sure but that would be cool.

2. Permanent unit is cool because I think it would do the automatic thing so probably - offcourse cost would be an issue.

3. Gas heats the house but it the fan is electric.

Having the unit power your AC is a big factor; a large AC unit will easily draw 10000 watts at startup off the generator, putting your purchase in an entirely different galaxy :)

Without the AC unit, you are looking at this:

Elec. water heater - 4500W
Fridge/freezer 1200W
Stove 100W
Lights around the house 1000W (get as many CFL's as you can)
PC 600W (includes router)
TV 400W
Furnace fan 700W
_______________________
Total: 8500W

I'd suggest going for a 14kW unit, like this Generac:

http://www.norwall.com/product_info.php?products_id=602

Add another $1000 of so for the installation ;)

Also, some gas utilities provide the outdoor NG hookup for free.

Units like this are pretty worry-free, they'll run a weekly test on their own, and all you have to do is check the lights on the panel and keep the oil filled. The auto-transfer switch will kick in when the generator is running and the power is out.

Something to ponder: How often are you without power and for how long? Do you have natural gas service?

Having been through 5+ hurricanes, you learn quite quickly what is essential and what isn't.

First, if you can get a natural gas unit, DO. Having an uninterrupted fuel source makes this whole process easy. If there's no gas service in your area (no gas service in much of my area/Florida), your options change dramatically and conservation/efficiency become key.

Second, what do you need to power? What are the "bare essentials"? Lighting, heating (or cooling) and food storage are usually the first tier. What can you truly live without? What can you live without for x days? Smaller generators are usually more fuel efficient and almost always quieter. This is more of a concern if you're stuck with a limited amount of fuel on-site such is the case with gasoline/diesel/propane.

Personally, not a fan of the Generac stuff. It's called "Gener-junk" by the mechanics in the area. I can see why -- many failed to start or run for > 20 hrs during the hurricanes. For the broadcast facilities I consult on, I usually spec Kohler/Onan/Caterpillar. I don't think Cat makes anything residential-sized, but Kohler & Onan do.

An automatic transfer switch *is* a nice feature. I have one at my beach home. Lights go out. 10 seconds later you hear the generator cranking. 15 seconds after that everything comes back on. This certainly is the best option in severe weather rather than messing with a portable unit in the weather.

At my home in town I just have a manual transfer switch and a smaller Honda EU2000i inverter-based generator that sits on the back patio (with a large chain). It'll run everything except the oven, clothes dryer on high, water heater, and the 2nd stage of the air con/heat pump. Of course it won't run everything at once, but it'll run what I need (incl. air con) for ~1-2 gallons/day of fuel. Compare this with the 1-2 gallons/HOUR you'd need with a 13kW genset. Not sure about up north, but down in these parts fuel is extremely scarce once the power goes out. If you do manage to find it, plan on waiting about 2-3 hours and only being allowed 5-10 gallons. If you're fortunate enough to have natural gas, this isn't even a concern.

One other thing. If you already have natural gas service, swap out the water heater for a gas one. Electric resistance heat is still the most expensive way to heat anything, despite high gas prices.

not to argue with any advice here, but NG is not always the best idea. In cases of severe power outtage (or black/brownouts) utilities often shut down areas entirely---including (happened here in PA) natural gas pumping stations. Dumb, but happens. The likelihood of losing local power AND natural gas is really low, but if you must have electric power all the time, no matter what, you might be better off with a local fuel source such as gas or diesel fuel (or even propane).

This system can handle most of my house including the 5 ton trane XL19i AC. I all of my critical circuits on this unit and it is the NG model. I went with this over the LP model since I did not want to have a large LP tank installed (they are required to be above ground where I live). I am in Pa, and yes you could lose NG and electric at the same time but this has never happened to me. IMO, this is the most economical unit since the next step up probably triples the cost. I would also consider the Kohler unit also.

This system can handle most of my house including the 5 ton trane XL19i AC. I all of my critical circuits on this unit and it is the NG model. I went with this over the LP model since I did not want to have a large LP tank installed (they are required to be above ground where I live). I am in Pa, and yes you could lose NG and electric at the same time but this has never happened to me. IMO, this is the most economical unit since the next step up probably triples the cost. I would also consider the Kohler unit also.

A 5 ton trane should suck up about 12-13 of those 15kwa.

Scott,

1. I don't really know how many watts. I am most concerned about the furnace, electric hot water, frig, stove that is gas but with electrical read out, some lights, tv and internet. AC - not sure but that would be cool.

2. Permanent unit is cool because I think it would do the automatic thing so probably - offcourse cost would be an issue.

3. Gas heats the house but it the fan is electric.

You have gas heat and a gas stove/oven but an electric hot water heater?

As part of the overall process of addressing your energy concerns, you might want to consider getting a gas hot-water heater. Unless your electric and/or gas rates are seriously out-of-whack, it should save you money on your bills. And it will free up some serious amperage on your breaker box and take a 4 KW load off your generator needs. I just can't envision a scenario where running an electric water heater using power from a natural-gas generator makes sense.

Oh, and as an aside, the burners on your gas stove/oven might work in a power outage if you light them with a match. I have a similar unit, and the gas control for the burners is completely mechanical. My oven won't work during a power outage (electronic control, thermostat, etc.) but at least I could boil water.

I'm with Scott, but I'd add a note here.. for sensitive electronics, I'd
suggest you get a battery backed UPS (For Computer, router etc... )
to prevent reboots/outage/damage from multiple power cycles.

Also make sure the generator and accessories you install can work in the
temperature range in your area. An auto start generator is as good as the
battery that starts it.

A 5 ton trane should suck up about 12-13 of those 15kwa.

It better not be sucking down 12-13kW. That'd be 50 amps @ 240v(!) or cost about $1.35/hr to run on the power co's dime, far more if you're generating your own power. I don't have the spec sheets on that Trane specifically, but for the equivalent Carrier unit, the spec sheet requires a minimum of a 30 amp circuit (and specs a 30 amp breaker). You might want to have the extra capacity to handle starting the compressor, but that's about it. Adding a few large capacitors does the job better & cheaper.

Going through the detailed performance sheet, the worst # I can find is 6.85kW (125F outdoor temperature, 72F dewpoint inside, 2000CFM moving through the coil, practically isn't ever going to happen). Using more realistic #'s, (85-95F, 65F dewpoint) you're only looking at 4-5kW at high stage, and about 3 kW at low stage for that AC.

For reference, my own system (Carrier 2-ton 2-stage, their "16 SEER" model, 'though if you run the numbers it's only 14 SEER) draws about 880 watts on low stage, about 1600 watts on high stage, both #'s are measured numbers, not from the spec sheet and includes the heat pump + blower + low voltage circuitry.

not to argue with any advice here, but NG is not always the best idea. In cases of severe power outtage (or black/brownouts) utilities often shut down areas entirely---including (happened here in PA) natural gas pumping stations. Dumb, but happens. The likelihood of losing local power AND natural gas is really low, but if you must have electric power all the time, no matter what, you might be better off with a local fuel source such as gas or diesel fuel (or even propane).
Really low? Only ONCE in my lifetime has my natural gas went out. And the electricity wasn't out it was because the city dug through the gas line in front of my house. Most emergency providers use massive NG generators so if that fails (and it could especially in an earthquake), there will be serious issues beyond what is happening at one house.

To truly do what you need want, you will need both a transfer switch and a generator.

This might be a good place to start. (http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Markets/Electrical/Products/ResidentialProducts/GeneratorsandPowerTransferSwitches/index.htm)