JetBlue TrueBlue - My Jet Blue Newbie experience: the good, the bad and the ugly (Long)

Having just taken the second Jet Blue (B6?) flight of my life and my first in several years, I wanted to post my experience for others who may be considering switching to the carrier. A lot of things went wrong, some of which were their fault and some of which weren't, so I got a really good range of "experiences," some of which were handled well and some of which weren't. Overall, I got to see a really good range of B6's competencies.

Situation: On Tuesday night, I was in Detroit on business. I got the news that a friend had passed away and that the funeral would be held in DC on Thursday at 1 pm. Given that I wouldn't be able to get back to Boston to pick up clothes for the funeral until Wednesday night, I had to book a flight to DC on Thursday morning. My choices, based on times and prices, were United or B6. Even though it was $50 more (including $10 for the increased leg room; what a bargain), I chose B6 because I know United's reputation when things go wrong, and I wanted a more customer friendly airline and the extra comfort.

My flight was supposed to leave BOS at 9 am and arrive at Dulles at 10:30, leaving me plenty of time to make the funeral at 1. I got to the airport at 7:30 (Boston's C terminal makes the B terminal look like the palace at Versailles, by the way.), I discovered that my flight had taken a mechanical and was delayed until 11:40, arriving at 1 pm. I realized then that I had made a very, very rookie mistake: I had booked a last-minute ticket for a "must be there on-time" trip on a carrier with no interline agreements. A gate agent told me that only a supervisor could book me on another airline. I asked to speak to the supervisor. The GA went in the back and said the supe wouldn't do it. I asked to speak to the supe myself, and she pointed me to the service counter.

To say the supervisor was surly would be an understatement. I asked her what my options were and she gave me the bored look that said "I've spoken to a thousand people like you already. Please leave." I didn't expect her to pay for me to fly UA, but a sympathetic, "I'm sorry, we don't have an interline agreement," would have been better than the "That's not going to happen" that she said to me. A gate agent later took pity on me and moved me to the front of the plane so that I could at least get off fast. She was horrified by the supervisor's attitude (Later, I had to return to the service counter and noticed that the supervisor didn't even look up from her PDA to answer her colleague's question.).

The flight crew was outstanding. I was surprised that they didn't pass out headphones, but they told me that they don't do that on the short-hauls.

I made it to the funeral in time for the end of the service, which also allowed me to get a ride to the cemetery and Shiva house afterward.

The return: Mmm, dinner at Five Guys burgers. Long wait, good burgers.

I had the 8:55 pm to BOS (with the 38" of leg room!), #1260. At 8:30, the first "delayed" message went up. It could have been worse: two gates away, #1262, the scheduled 2:45 pm, was just starting to board. That was one unhappy group of people. The GA told us that it was weather in Boston, and that our flight would take off at 10:24 pm. I asked the GA about getting on #1262, and he told me that there were empty seats, but that he couldn't put me on the flight because they were boarding. I almost lost it, but the woman next to me asked if we could be put on standby. He tapped on his computer and handed me a boarding pass for 19-F. As I boarded, I noted a ton of empty seats up front (most of which stayed empty) and mentioned to the FA that I was supposed to be up front on my earlier flight and could I move up if the seats remained empty. On most other airlines, I would have been laughed at. The FA happily agreed and didn't even ask for proof that I was supposed to be in the E+ seats.

We took a number of delays on the ground and finally got off at 10:50 pm, but I can't say enough good things about the flight crew. They were friendly, had a sense of humor and did a great job of diffusing the situation for a group of passengers that had just spent eight hours in an airport and on a plane. The passed out snacks and drinks earlier, turned on the TVs and kept us updated every ten minutes. The pilot came on and made an announcement that if anyone needed to make a call, they could borrow his cell phone. The Live TV went in and out on our side of the plane, but I switched seats again later and got a working TV.

Bottom Line

The good: Outstanding flight crews. The seats were very comfortable and I loved the 190's. The "big seats" up front are better than F on another airline if you don't have someone in the middle seat, particularly with the Live TV and satellite radio. This would be a great airline to fly with kids or if you don't have to be somewhere at a particular time.

The bad: The gate agents ranged from okay to terrible. They were like GA's at any other airline (That's gotta be a crappy job.). If you need to be somewhere, you can't rely on B6, since they have no interline agreements. The phone line is useless in a heavy call volume situation (It told me there were too many calls and that I'd have to call back later.).

Thanks for listening,
Mike

Firstly, I would like to extend my deepest condolonces on the loss of your friend.

I am happy to hear that the flight crew was outstanding - they usually are. However, your poor airport experience is definitely no fun. Please let us know if you get B.O.R. compensation for the MX delay on the outbound. The return definitely won't qualify, as it was weather.

One observation - you mentioned you were on the 190 with extra legroom up front. Our EML seats on the 190 are only offered in the exit row. Otherwise, the front is 33" and the back is 34".

Thanks for the trip report. Hopefully we'll have the opportunity to serve you again in the future - under happy circumstances and with a better airport experience.

If you need to be somewhere, you can't rely on B6, since they have no interline agreements. The phone line is useless in a heavy call volume situation (It told me there were too many calls and that I'd have to call back later.).

Sorry to hear about your loss.

The quoted part of your post could serve well as a sticky. They're the two most common problems reported in this forum. Hopefully B6 will do something about them.

Sounds like a relatively typical experience on JetBlue, where the good things go very well and the bad things do not.

Regarding the headphones, there are no freebies anymore; all headphones are a revenue item now ($1).

And good luck getting a BoR comp on the mechanical issues from the morning flight. I'll be surprised if it comes through as JetBlue seems to be shifting blame on more things away from covered events where they can.

Firstly, I would like to extend my deepest condolonces on the loss of your friend.

I am happy to hear that the flight crew was outstanding - they usually are. However, your poor airport experience is definitely no fun. Please let us know if you get B.O.R. compensation for the MX delay on the outbound. The return definitely won't qualify, as it was weather.

One observation - you mentioned you were on the 190 with extra legroom up front. Our EML seats on the 190 are only offered in the exit row. Otherwise, the front is 33" and the back is 34".

Thanks for the trip report. Hopefully we'll have the opportunity to serve you again in the future - under happy circumstances and with a better airport experience.

Thank you for the note. You're right, the 38" was only for the return. The plane was super, though.

Sounds like a relatively typical experience on JetBlue, where the good things go very well and the bad things do not.

Regarding the headphones, there are no freebies anymore; all headphones are a revenue item now ($1).

And good luck getting a BoR comp on the mechanical issues from the morning flight. I'll be surprised if it comes through as JetBlue seems to be shifting blame on more things away from covered events where they can.

You hit it right on the nose. Everything went really well or was totally messed up.

I would have paid for the headphones if they had been offered. I was just surprised that they weren't offered at all. On the return, they were passed out for free.

Now to figure out what BoR comp is...

Mike

And good luck getting a BoR comp on the mechanical issues from the morning flight. I'll be surprised if it comes through as JetBlue seems to be shifting blame on more things away from covered events where they can.

Sorry, I haven't seen any evidence of this from this FT board. In fact, I have heard a number of reports like "I didn't even know what it was or why I got it but it ended up in my inbox a few days later." Do you have some personal experience to share?



Now to figure out what BoR comp is...

Mike

For mechanical issues and other events within Jetblue's control, there is a "Bill Of Rights" provision(found on Jetblue's website) that will compensate you for delays in amounts correlating to your delay.

If your flight was delayed over the threshhold limit, not entirely sure what that is for mx, then you should receive compensation. If you haven't heard them after a week follow the links, if available, or simply go to the "Speak Up" icon in the top-right corner of the home page and provide them with information from your flight. They'll research and get back to you.

And good luck getting a BoR comp on the mechanical issues from the morning flight. I'll be surprised if it comes through as JetBlue seems to be shifting blame on more things away from covered events where they can.

Can you be more specific and provide some examples on what you mean by "JetBlue seems to be shifting blame on more things away from covered events where they can"?

Mechanical issues are, with few exceptions, considered "controllable irregularities." mikeef, I'm very sorry to hear about both your friend's passing, and the attitude of those crewmembers. If you haven't done so, I'd strongly recommend sending a copy of your story to Speak Up on the JetBlue website. Feedback like that actually goes a long way.

With regard to Thursday morning's 9am flight 1253 from BOS to IAD, the inbound aircraft was indeed delayed due to a mechanical issue. The aircraft was swapped and departed at 11:27, for a total delay of 2 hours, 27 minutes. Per the Bill of Rights (http://www.jetblue.com/about/ourcompany/promise/index.html#departure),

Customers whose flight is delayed for 2-4:59 hours after scheduled departure time due to a Controllable Irregularity are entitled to a $50 Voucher good for future travel on JetBlue.

If you don't receive a voucher automatically within the next few days, it wouldn't hurt at all to request one through Speak Up.

I honestly hope future experiences are much better.

"Controllable Irregularity"Nice. Sounds like constipation.

Is there a glossary for these and other terms that we should know about?

Nice. Sounds like constipation.

Is there a glossary for these and other terms that we should know about?

Indeed there is. On the right hand side, (http://www.jetblue.com/about/ourcompany/promise/index.html) under "Bill of Rights Definitions."

Can you be more specific and provide some examples on what you mean by "JetBlue seems to be shifting blame on more things away from covered events where they can"?


Inability to have a crew blamed on weather, it a gray area to me, especially when the effects are felt for days. I understand that the initial effects of the crews out of position are weather related, but B6 seems to recover from it worse than others. And since they can continue to blame it on weather and there is nothing stopping them, they seem to do so. I do not think that JetBlue is alone in this, but it is something that is frustrating when it happens.

Indeed there is. On the right hand side, (http://www.jetblue.com/about/ourcompany/promise/index.html) under "Bill of Rights Definitions."Hah hah - there's also Uncontrollable Irregularity.

That must be the opposite of constipation. :)

Hah hah - there's also Uncontrollable Irregularity.

That must be the opposite of constipation. :)

I almost had that when I read your two post! :D

Inability to have a crew blamed on weather, it a gray area to me, especially when the effects are felt for days. I understand that the initial effects of the crews out of position are weather related, but B6 seems to recover from it worse than others. And since they can continue to blame it on weather and there is nothing stopping them, they seem to do so. I do not think that JetBlue is alone in this, but it is something that is frustrating when it happens.

Do you have any examples of this happening to support your claim that delays and cancellations felt days later are still considered "uncontrollable" from a compensation point of view?

Inability to have a crew blamed on weather, it a gray area to me, especially when the effects are felt for days. I understand that the initial effects of the crews out of position are weather related, but B6 seems to recover from it worse than others. And since they can continue to blame it on weather and there is nothing stopping them, they seem to do so. I do not think that JetBlue is alone in this, but it is something that is frustrating when it happens.

I remember reading something shortly after Feb. 14, 2007 regarding large compensation totals, ie millions (anyone have the amount?), offered to pax by Jetblue. The IROP situation you've described above fits Valentine's Day, 07 to a T.

I remember reading something shortly after Feb. 14, 2007 regarding large compensation totals, ie millions (anyone have the amount?), offered to pax by Jetblue. The IROP situation you've described above fits Valentine's Day, 07 to a T.

I believe compensation related to the events of 2/14 and its aftermath totaled about $30 - $40 million. The Customer Bill of Rights was created after, but compensation was retroactive to 2/14.

Thanks all. I looked up the BoR and found that I am entitled to a $50 voucher for a 2.5 hr mechanical (I'm not asking for nor expecting anything for the return, which was wx.). I called B6 to ask what I needed to do to claim it, and they told me that the incident had already been noted and that a voucher was in the mail.

The whole BoR thing is very interesting, and probably a topic in another thread, but I see where B6 is coming from. It appears that they are being proactive by automatically compensating passengers. It saves them negotiations with the passengers about who is entitled to what, as well as the conversations that we have in the AA forum ("Why did I only get 3k miles while he got 5k?"). Frankly, I think a $50 voucher is a little slim for such a long delay, but who knows what the equivalent would have been somewhere else.

Two other points of interest: The CEO will be getting a certified letter from me detailing the experience. Who knows who will eventually read it, but I was pretty frustrated at times. Second, I've gone through the responses in this thread and other threads, and it definitely seems like there is a major reliability problem at the airline.

Mike

My flight was supposed to leave BOS at 9 am and arrive at Dulles at 10:30, leaving me plenty of time to make the funeral at 1. I got to the airport at 7:30 (Boston's C terminal makes the B terminal look like the palace at Versailles, by the way.), I discovered that my flight had taken a mechanical and was delayed until 11:40, arriving at 1 pm. I realized then that I had made a very, very rookie mistake: I had booked a last-minute ticket for a "must be there on-time" trip on a carrier with no interline agreements. My family and I had an experience at BOS last night which was almost identical to yours. We were booked BOS-JFK-SEA, departing BOS on a 500p flight with a two-hour layover at JFK.

We checked in online and both flights were listed as on time. We got to Logan and checked the boards: our 500p departure is listed as on time, and the aircraft involved is listed as arriving at our gate from Dulles at 420p, also on time. So we went to the bar and had a drink, and when we showed up at C34 at 420p, of course, nothing is "on time" at all. Our aircraft hasn't even left Dulles yet (the status board info was, er, fraudulent). Our BOS-JFK is now going to operate two or three hours late, meaning we won't make our SEA connection. Weather great in both cities, no ATC delays in BOS.

It's the usual JetBlue irrops chaos at the podium and between the amateur flyers and three inexperienced, ineffectual, sloooooow-moving GAs, conversations take forever. But what happens is, we're a party of three: my son and I get the last two seats on the nonstop BOS-SEA departing at 715p, and my wife stands by for it, but is confirmed on a next-day flight that will get her to SEA at 300p, 16 hours later than booked.

At 430p on a weekday afternoon at BOS, there are about 25 different ways to get to SEA same day on various airlines, but the no-interlining policy screws us again. Incredibly, everyone checks in for the JetBlue nonstop, my son and I push back and my wife heads for the Logan Hilton.

I've gone through the responses in this thread and other threads, and it definitely seems like there is a major reliability problem at the airline. I think it's a gigantic problem and I'm at my wit's end with JetBlue over reliability. I love what they are trying to do, but execution is far too erratic. After last night we have three new house rules to govern any future JetBlue travel:

1. If a proper network carrier (except US) or Southwest is selling a comparable itinerary for up to $50 more than the B6 price, we will book the other airline instead.

2. We will not fly JetBlue where we need to be at our destination within 24 hours of booked arrival. JetBlue is flatly, definitely not an airline for when you have to be somewhere (business meeting, funeral, etc.). It is an airline for when it would be nice to get to your destination sometime this week.

3. No more short-segment-to-transcon same-day connections through JFK. This makes the third time this year for me that a short B6 flight to JFK has run several hours off schedule and blown up a homebound trip.

Even though it was $50 more (including $10 for the increased leg room; what a bargain), I chose B6... My wife's $219 hotel room and her missing work today more than wiped out whatever minor savings we realized flying JetBlue. I expect JetBlue will look at her BOS-JFK flight, which ran three hours late, and send her a $50 voucher. Actual delay: 16 hours. Actual cost to us: several hundred dollars.

Unlike many of the passengers at BOS gate C34 yesterday, who were shocked to learn that they'd get to IAH, FLL, etc. on B6 16 or 18 or 20 hours later than planned, I'm far from a JetBlue newbie. But JetBlue operates so far below minimal expectations for reliability, logistics sophistication and staff skills, it's losing me.

P.S. It's a big mistake to chirp "Happy Jetting!" at people through the seatback TVs when so little about the airline works right and so many customers are the polar opposite of happy. :td:

Do you know why they did not put you on the 6pm jfk flight which arrived on time at 720 so you could have made your 840pm flight? I generally try to memorize 2 or 3 alternate flights so that if mine gets screwed up I can suggest to the GA (or use the 1800 phone line) which flights may get me there quicker. Also I would not recommend connecting via NYC (especially in the evening when everything has a delay).

Do you know why they did not put you on the 6pm jfk flight which arrived on time at 720 so you could have made your 840pm flight? Booked up also.

Also I would not recommend connecting via NYC (especially in the evening when everything has a delay). JetBlue has so many alternate east coast connecting hubs to choose from. ;)

I just got an email with my $50 voucher. I also sent off a letter to the brass with a summary of the above. I'll post when I get a response.

Mike

2. We will not fly JetBlue where we need to be at our destination within 24 hours of booked arrival. JetBlue is flatly, definitely not an airline for when you have to be somewhere (business meeting, funeral, etc.). It is an airline for when it would be nice to get to your destination sometime this week.



Considering I just started flying B6 again after swearing them off for a few years, and both experiences so far have been hampered by significant delays that Jetblue does their level best every time to blame on someone/something out of their control in order to not have to give BoR comps...and then having a friend from the UK who just ended up sitting on a JetBlue plane at the gate for 5 hours at JFK 3 weeks ago (without being allowed to deplane, and getting no info from the flight crew) at 7p at night, meaning they didn't get across the country til 4am when they were supposed to be in at 10p - he spent more time on the JetBlue plane than he did crossing the Atlantic...

...you just made me laugh. Thanks. :)

Considering I just started flying B6 again after swearing them off for a few years, and both experiences so far have been hampered by significant delays that Jetblue does their level best every time to blame on someone/something out of their control in order to not have to give BoR comps...

Did you feel like you were entitled to BOR compensation regarding these delays? If so, what was your experience that led you to believe that Jetblue deceived you somehow?

Did you feel like you were entitled to BOR compensation regarding these delays? If so, what was your experience that led you to believe that Jetblue deceived you somehow?

One of them I know falls under the BoR comp rules, as it was caused by equipment issues according to flight staff and ground staff when it happend, but was recorded after as multiple issues, allowing them many outs as far as the BoR is concerned, and the other I don't know, because, per normal w/JetBlue in my experience both when I stopped flying a few years back and now, the story changes depending on who you talk to (wx vs mechanical vs atc vs...). And the friend of mine who ended up sitting on the ramp for 5 hours definitely falls under BoR. Suffice to say, my issue with JetBlue isn't the fact that they owe me anything under their much advertised BoR, it's more how they handle irops situations, and the lack of facility to follow up after. B6 gate staff/management would benefit from some serious customer service retraining, to get them back to the amazing airline they started as. In my experience, both from when I stopped flying them a few years back and now, is much of the staff are now surprisingly disorganized, and do anything possible to not compensate the customer under their BoR/make themselves look better, which makes it all the worse. They also have more and more unhelpful and downright rude agents, which is not the JetBlue I used to know. The customer relations dept not having a phone number you can get through on is inexcusable - they do get back via e-mail, but a 7 day+ wait is also inexcusable. There's just so much they used to do quite well, and they created a "BoR" that seems more a pr move than anything significant. Don't bait your customers with something, then try to use every loophole possible to wriggle out of following through. It's a great way to piss off your customers much more.

Did you feel like you were entitled to BOR compensation regarding these delays? If so, what was your experience that led you to believe that Jetblue deceived you somehow?

... my issue with JetBlue isn't the fact that they owe me anything under their much advertised BoR, it's more how they handle irops situations, and the lack of facility to follow up after... Much of the staff are now surprisingly disorganized, and do anything possible to not compensate the customer under their BoR/make themselves look better, which makes it all the worse... Don't bait your customers with something, then try to use every loophole possible to wriggle out of following through. The "opening bid" position of JetBlue people seems to be that the BoR is not applicable, no matter how long, egregious or self-inflicted the delay; then they can sometimes be hammered into agreeing to BoR rules, but in a way that makes a cruel mockery of the whole BoR idea. If the customer has to be an aggressive negotiator to pry loose part of the JetBlue promise, then the hell with it. I agree with articos that the tone and quality of JetBlue customer service interaction has really deteriorated. It's automatically adversarial, almost UA-style, and many are overwhelmed by / not competent in their jobs. At an airline that is clearly incapable of operating its own published timetable, this is just the icing on the cake.

Mimi, in reviewing your posts I can't help but notice that you are very much in the tank for JetBlue and seem consistently to start from the position that B6 is right, customers unreasonable... what in your own experience with them has led you to this level of loyalty?

I had the same question a while back.

If I take a wild guess, it is either employment with B6, or PR/ Consumer Insights type of work related to B6.



Mimi, in reviewing your posts I can't help but notice that you are very much in the tank for JetBlue and seem consistently to start from the position that B6 is right, customers unreasonable... what in your own experience with them has led you to this level of loyalty?

The "opening bid" position of JetBlue people seems to be that the BoR is not applicable, no matter how long, egregious or self-inflicted the delay; then they can sometimes be hammered into agreeing to BoR rules, but in a way that makes a cruel mockery of the whole BoR idea. If the customer has to be an aggressive negotiator to pry loose part of the JetBlue promise, then the hell with it. I agree with articos that the tone and quality of JetBlue customer service interaction has really deteriorated. It's automatically adversarial, almost UA-style, and many are overwhelmed by / not competent in their jobs. At an airline that is clearly incapable of operating its own published timetable, this is just the icing on the cake.

Mimi, in reviewing your posts I can't help but notice that you are very much in the tank for JetBlue and seem consistently to start from the position that B6 is right, customers unreasonable... what in your own experience with them has led you to this level of loyalty?

Did you take my question in the post above to be B6 is right and articos is unreasonable, really?!?

Although my intentions have been questioned in matters of love from time to time I fail to see a reason here. This was just to satisfy my curiosity and to add his/her experience to this (http://http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=857508). The poll has some accounts of interactions with BOR, some similar to your experiences, others smoother or effortless. (Could always use more accounts, good, bad or indifferent!)

As for the review of my posts I am surprised you were able to stay up through it.:) From what I remember of your posts I never found reason to question you.

By the way, when I "start" a thread my "position" is largely neutral. My "responses" to others are at times confrontational when I feel that poster is being unreasonable.

I had the same question a while back.

You did? Sorry to keep you waiting.

If I take a wild guess, it is either employment with B6, or PR/ Consumer Insights type of work related to B6.

There was a singer from Mexico that always had a pretty lady on his arm wherever he went. The pop scene reporters, however, kept hearing rumors that he was gay, and well, he did have a bit of flair about him. One of them confronted the singer with it and his reply was: "Isn't it obvious?"

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It is truly telling that in this forum you are only considered, by some, to be objective if you almost always have something negative to say. I happen to think Jetblue is better than almost always bad. My experience has been quite good and where it hasn't been I have stated it.

Happy Posting!

There was a singer from Mexico that always had a pretty lady on his arm wherever he went. The pop scene reporters, however, kept hearing rumors that he was gay, and well, he did have a bit of flair about him. One of them confronted the singer with it and his reply was: "Isn't it obvious?" No idea what that means as a response to the do-you-work-for-JetBlue question; I must be dense.

I don't think it's the case, in this forum or on FT, that "you are only considered objective if you almost always have something negative to say." Two points, though:


I weigh most negative feedback from FTers more seriously, because it's generally very well-informed. Discount the marathon screeds from brand new FT members seeking lavish compensation for trivial or unavoidable problems, and what you have left is a pretty reasoned set of inputs re: how well an airline is working. I consider myself pretty reasonable too, and while I've recorded really positive B6 experiences in the past, I've come to think B6 barely works at all these days. Maybe JetBlue is the Sarah Palin of airlines: the electrifying fresh face that turns out to need a LOT of remedial basic training once it hits the major leagues.

One of the most intriguing things about FlyerTalk culture is the extent to which soime folks become virtual employees of their favored airline: reflexively defensive, quick to rationalize problems and policies even when they're anti-customer, quick to point out the customer's faults versus the airline's. They're sometimes emotional, heading for unhinged, in their zealous defense of their favorite company. (On the DL board recently there was a post about a New York attorney who sued and beat DL in small claims court for misleading him during irrops; by the tenth post, DL loyalists were attacking the plaintiff for choosing to have children late in life. Jeez.) Every FT board has such folks. I'm in no way suggesting you're unduly emotional about JetBlue, Mimi, but I see that you often proceed from the belief that JetBlue is running a tight ship, communicating well with customers, exceeding expectations, etc. when there is a vast and growing body of evidence on here to the contrary.

As for me, I was going to get that Amex card to keep my TrueBlue points intact, but after a string of rum experiences with JetBlue in 2008, I don't think JetBlue will be playing much of a role in my family's travel plans from now on. (And my wife, after witnessing that mini-meltdown at BOS last month referenced above, says she won't chance a repeat performance.)

No idea what that means as a response to the do-you-work-for-JetBlue question; I must be dense.



That would make two at least.

let us do a bit math here.

It is 6 times more likely for a customer to tell about a bad experience than a good one. So if you want to hear 50% 50% good and bad, you need to bring out 6 employees/fans/PR firms hired by B6 to counter that.

And it is indeed very telling...





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It is truly telling that in this forum you are only considered, by some, to be objective if you almost always have something negative to say. I happen to think Jetblue is better than almost always bad. My experience has been quite good and where it hasn't been I have stated it.

Happy Posting!

No idea what that means as a response to the do-you-work-for-JetBlue question; I must be dense.

I don't think it's the case, in this forum or on FT, that "you are only considered objective if you almost always have something negative to say." Two points, though:

[LIST]
I weigh most negative feedback from FTers more seriously, because it's generally very well-informed. Discount the marathon screeds from brand new FT members seeking lavish compensation for trivial or unavoidable problems, and what you have left is a pretty reasoned set of inputs re: how well an airline is working. I consider myself pretty reasonable too, and while I've recorded really positive B6 experiences in the past, I've come to think B6 barely works at all these days. Maybe JetBlue is the Sarah Palin of airlines: the electrifying fresh face that turns out to need a LOT of remedial basic training once it hits the major leagues.

The point was, however obscure, that this is all a matter of perception and in actuality it is in the end irrevelevant.

I also weigh the negative feedback and, using ciaobel's math, I will assign it a value of 16.66% moving forward.:)


I'm in no way suggesting you're unduly emotional about JetBlue, Mimi, but I see that you often proceed from the belief that JetBlue is running a tight ship, communicating well with customers, exceeding expectations, etc. when there is a vast and growing body of evidence on here to the contrary.


In all seriousness, I don't feel like I've said any of these things on behalf of anyone else. I don't recall saying them on my own behalf either as that would seem a little too cheer-leady for me. My stance has been a contradiction to the "sky is falling" posts that run rampant on this board. I have also been just as dutiful about acknowledging that there are problems as I have witnessed them.

let us do a bit math here.

It is 6 times more likely for a customer to tell about a bad experience than a good one. So if you want to hear 50% 50% good and bad, you need to bring out 6 employees/fans/PR firms hired by B6 to counter that.

And it is indeed very telling...

It is also very telling that I have never made some wacked assumption that, given your distaste for Jetblue, you (wild guess here) are an unhappy ex-employee of B6, employee of a competitor or a competitor's PR firm(sorry, had to get back up on the chair after that one)


May we go back to commenting on the board and not each other, please?

Thank you for a very enlightening thread. I have been planning our family's first cruise in Sept 2009 to Alaska and are leaving from Seattle. As I long time UAL FF I was planning on using this opportunity to fly my first time from our new hometown of Rochester, on JetBlue from Rochester, NY to Seattle. However I had not given a lot of thought about there only being one flight per day thru JFK and how reliability could effect not making it to Seattle in time for the Cruise. I guess I shall look at finding an airline with multiple opportunities to get us to Seattle in time should an irregular ops occur.

May we go back to commenting on the board and not each other, please?

The two posters who have respectfully and expertly called you out would, I'm nearly sure, love to go back to FT topics at large. But after reading the entire exchange, I can't say that you have answered their questions.

I have been planning our family's first cruise in Sept 2009 to Alaska and are leaving from Seattle. As I long time UAL FF I was planning on using this opportunity to fly my first time from our new hometown of Rochester, on JetBlue from Rochester, NY to Seattle. However I had not given a lot of thought about there only being one flight per day thru JFK and how reliability could effect not making it to Seattle in time for the Cruise. Congratulations on the cruise and I'm glad you're coming out to Seattle next year.

About your air travel: I would firmly advise against booking JetBlue ROC-JFK-SEA to arrive in SEA the night before your cruise sails. There is too great a chance that either your ROC-SEA flight will run late and miss the transcon, or that JFK-SEA will cancel and you'll just be told to come back to JFK in 24, 48, maybe 72 hours.

I would only chance JetBlue in a situation like this if I were booked to fly on Wednesday and my cruise sailed on Saturday. I think it's a fairly safe bet that JetBlue would get you from ROC to SEA within two days of planned arrival. ON the day you booked? Not a safe bet.

Congratulations on the cruise and I'm glad you're coming out to Seattle next year.

About your air travel: I would firmly advise against booking JetBlue ROC-JFK-SEA to arrive in SEA the night before your cruise sails. There is too great a chance that either your ROC-SEA flight will run late and miss the transcon, or that JFK-SEA will cancel and you'll just be told to come back to JFK in 24, 48, maybe 72 hours.

I would only chance JetBlue in a situation like this if I were booked to fly on Wednesday and my cruise sailed on Saturday. I think it's a fairly safe bet that JetBlue would get you from ROC to SEA within two days of planned arrival. ON the day you booked? Not a safe bet.

Something tells me the vast majority do not experience this.

Absolutely true jetBlueNYFL - the vast majority do not. However, that's irrelevant to the advice being provided. It's not a matter of whether 80% or 90% of travellers experience it, it's whether compared to other airlines - in case an IRROP were to happen - what are your chances of getting to your destination the same day and/or within xx hours of your scheduled arrival.

In my personal experience, and from what everybody has been posting, the chances are that if your B6 flight has an IRROP - you're unlikely to be able to make your destination the same day and/or within xx hours (whatever the threshold is for the passenger). Not to say that it's B6's fault - they have limited flights, they're a low cost carrier and have never advertised that their extensive route network makes them the most effective at getting your from one place to another.

People seem to be upset when they fly a LCC and don't get all the "benefits" of a major. It's not all about the soft product (seats, food, sat TV,etc.) - while that's a tremendous benefit in the air - I consciously choose to give up on that and fly a major carrier when it's time sensitive (such as business, funeral, catching a cruise ship etc.) - it's outrageous to fly any airline with just one flight a day to the destination if you absolutely must be at the destination on that day. Same reason you're generally advised to avoid the last flight of the day etc. etc. etc.

Anwyays, I do have to say though - do not minimize the recommendation here - there are certain things that B6 excels at and many others it does not. They should improve in those areas - additionally all passengers do themselves a favor by being an educated customer - use the vendor (airline) that can best deliver to your requirements. And remember you can't get it all (price, comfort, route network, interline agreements, lots of flight options etc. - some tradeoffs are required).

Something tells me the vast majority do not experience this. Not the point. A clear majority do not. But would I bet my vacation on JetBlue operating two flights on schedule on a given day? Absolutely not. Especially not on the once-daily transcons.

If JetBlue struck interlining deals so it had some coping strategy for irrop'd transcon pax other than "go away and come back 24 hours from now," things might be different.

I do not have "distaste" for jetblue, I have distaste for bad taste: either falsely interpreting data & presenting it matter of factly, or applying accusatory tone to whomever disagree with his/her opinions.






It is also very telling that I have never made some wacked assumption that, given your distaste for Jetblue, you (wild guess here) are an unhappy ex-employee of B6, employee of a competitor or a competitor's PR firm(sorry, had to get back up on the chair after that one)

Not the point. A clear majority do not. But would I bet my vacation on JetBlue operating two flights on schedule on a given day? Absolutely not. Especially not on the once-daily transcons.

If JetBlue struck interlining deals so it had some coping strategy for irrop'd transcon pax other than "go away and come back 24 hours from now," things might be different.

^ ^ Well said.

bearX

I cannot help it so I digged an odl thread out, and here is the highlight from that exchange around, well, our anniversary of V day.

Here are the main characters
BearX: I will do leisure biz with B6!
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9345574&postcount=25

Mimi: I know exactly what B6 pax want (including you, my bear)...
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9321958&postcount=24

Ciaobel: Did the leadership at B6 really said that the prefer delay over cancellation with irops?
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9318705&postcount=22

A320Captain (from B6?): Positive, and btw we are lightyears ahead now!
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9317896&postcount=20

In a nutshell, you should have seen it coming...

Thank you for a very enlightening thread. I have been planning our family's first cruise in Sept 2009 to Alaska and are leaving from Seattle. As I long time UAL FF I was planning on using this opportunity to fly my first time from our new hometown of Rochester, on JetBlue from Rochester, NY to Seattle. However I had not given a lot of thought about there only being one flight per day thru JFK and how reliability could effect not making it to Seattle in time for the Cruise. I guess I shall look at finding an airline with multiple opportunities to get us to Seattle in time should an irregular ops occur.

JetBlue actually operates two flights on JFK-SEA from May through November. Further, there are connecting opportunities in BOS, SAN, and LGB. So if there is an IROP for some reason, JetBlue could send you through one of those stations.

On that note, JetBlue's route network has been changing. Single-daily stations are either being dropped or are having more connecting opportunities. PDX, ONT, SMF, and SEA are all good examples.

Mimi: I know exactly what B6 pax want (including you, my bear)... Ciaobel: Did the leadership at B6 really said that the prefer delay over cancellation with irops? This weekend's NY Times story (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/business/05jet.html)on JetBlue says the old policy / fetish of trying to complete every flight, no matter if it's hours or even days behind timetable, has been abandoned by a smarter post-Neeleman management.

So the policy Mimi was defending in that old thread was pretty clearly not what anybody wanted, not even JetBlue itself.

So the policy Mimi was defending in that old thread was pretty clearly not what anybody wanted, not even JetBlue itself.

It is what they wanted. It is no longer what they want. Everyone is allowed to change.

I have distaste for bad taste: either falsely interpreting data & presenting it matter of factly, or applying accusatory tone to whomever disagree with his/her opinions.

From my perspective, I couldn't disagree with you at all.


So the policy Mimi was defending in that old thread was pretty clearly not what anybody wanted, not even JetBlue itself.

To be clear, in the quote provided by ciaobel, I was not "defending" the policy, only the reasoning behind it which had been brought into question upthread. You'll note at the end of the quote that I reasoned that this policy was their downfall.

The two posters who have respectfully and expertly called you out would, I'm nearly sure, love to go back to FT topics at large. But after reading the entire exchange, I can't say that you have answered their questions.

To say, in effect, "You side with Jetblue too much, how can this be when it is obviously so bad? He must be a PR plant." is lacking and I feel that I have responded properly for the questions posed.

...I feel that I have responded properly for the questions posed. Do you work for, or derive income from professional activity that seeks to promote the interests of, JetBlue?

I arrive at least 1 day earlier than the cruise starts . Trying to get to a cruise on the same day you fly is iffy at best . That said you may try flying out on one airline (aka UA) and then return on B6. This way you can get to the cruise on time and then try B6 back home (when you are less stressed for time). I would not fly any airline that has only 1 flight to a destination when you need to make a cruise ship.

Do you work for, or derive income from professional activity that seeks to promote the interests of, JetBlue?

Shades of McCarthy-ism...

You fail to make a case for relevance here. (Of course, paid promotion of Jetblue makes it's own case and I am not now, nor have I ever been, a paid promoter of Jetblue.) As an issue of perception, it must bake your nut that I can see things differently than you without a hole to be pigeoned into.

Moreover, a review of my posting history should find that the initial premise of your accusations , that I am "in the tank" for Jetblue, is wrong on merit.

I'll gladly walk into this hole: I am an aviation enthusiast.

I would not fly any airline that has only 1 flight to a destination when you need to make a cruise ship.

As already stated, JetBlue has more than one flight out of SEA. JFK-SEA sees two flights for the spring, summer, and fall. There are also connecting opportunities through BOS, SAN, and LGB.

...it must bake your nut that I can see things differently than you without a hole to be pigeoned into. Not at all; I respect your posts. I'm just interested in how you formed your points of view. My nut remains unbaked.

I will take your answer to my question as some sort of yes.

Cheers!

I'm just interested in how you formed your points of view.

As I've said, based on my experience. This includes flights, conversations with employees and general knowledge and following of the airline.

I will take your answer to my question as some sort of yes.


You have the right to apply whatever filter you deem appropriate to my posts, even incorrectly.

You have the right to apply whatever filter you deem appropriate to my posts, even incorrectly.It was a simple question. The answer was not no. :)

I guess that's what we'll go on.

It was a simple question. The answer was not no. :)

I guess that's what we'll go on.

Well put. It's all starting to make sense now.

It was a simple question. The answer was not no. :)

I guess that's what we'll go on.

Since when did simplicity have anything to do with whether a question is warranted?

This is a challenge of perceptions. You, of all nerd, should understand that as many of your posts are about perceptions.

If I say "Yes." I get the adroit musings that follow:

Well put. It's all starting to make sense now.
and the implication that this, in and of itself, explains the impetus for a contrary view to the posters.

If I say "No." then I will have given in to this little game whereby irrelevant questions need to be answered for credibilities sake.

Quite sad in my opinion.

Since when did simplicity have anything to do with whether a question is warranted?Now who ever implied that? It certainly wasn't me...