MilesBuzz! - MBNA WorldPoints... seeking info/insight

Hi there, I am new to earning air miles and wish to get your input. I am considering getting the (new?) MBNA WorldPoints card. I have had other MBNA cards for years and have been thrilled with their great customer service. What do you all know of this card, its drawbacks, etc. in relation to air miles?

I will explain my useage plans... I need a miles/points card that will allow us to earn points for travel all over the world really... Europe, Middle East, Hawaii, Austr/NZ, and Western US. Thus, I think I would prefer to not be pinned down to one airline. We will be charging all of our bills and monthly expenses to the card to earn points... this amount will typically be somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,500/mo., maybe $3,000. We will be paying the balance every month so interest rates are not a concern. We have A-1, perfect credit.

Here is a link to the promo site for this card:
https://www.applyonlinenow.com/USapp/Ctl/redirect?CV_sourceCode=F8SN&CV_MC=A000000XPE

I have read previous posts and have seen that the AmEx Starwood card is very popular, however it is kind of unappealing to me since it's AmEx and many places won't take it. I did a search on the forums here and couldn't find anything on the MBNA card in question (maybe that's because it is new, I think?) so if you could fill me in on what you know it would be much appreciated. Thank you for your help!

Julie

Unless things have changed MBNA picks the airline you fly with the program. So you have no control. My personal favorite is AMEX Platinum, I know you said its not as universal but it has a few extra perks.

coplatua1k, thank you for your reply. That is something to consider. However it's not a priority for me. I really don't care who I fly with so long as I get there! ;-) From what I understand they likely pick the cheapest through a company owned by Travelocity(??). It's all fine by me, unless there's something I'm missing...

Julie

I think you will find that the overwhelming majority of FlyerTalker's would agree that a "bank" sponsored credit card is far less valuable than an airline one. The two exceptions are Diners Club and American Express with the latter most often associated with an airline or hotel.

An excellent review of the major credit cards has been prepared by our own pgary at his site (http://home.earthlink.net/~pgary/MilesFrame.html) . It is an excellent resource that he should receive recurring kudos for.



[This message has been edited by CountinPlaces (edited 08-13-2003).]

CountinPlaces, thank you. What a fabulous wesbsite! I'll dig deeper into it in the next day or so and let you know if I still have questions. I was wondering why bank cards aren't as good and why Diners or other AmEx, but likely I'll find just that answer at his site. I didn't find that site when I was searching for info... thanks!

Julie

MBNA had a great deal going with no interest balance transfers until Feb/Mar of 2004. Nice card to use for transferring a big savings bond charge from one of your other rewards points cards.

Julie: it sounds like you might actually be a good candidate for a home-grown points card. Most FTers (including me) tend to align to an airline program card, but in the future I will likely switch to home-grown points.

My biggest questions on these cards are:

- Redemption rules: is it just a fare cap, or do they also have a 21-day advance rule or other rules? If my fare cap is $300 for a U.S. ticket, but I find a last-minute fare for $350 on my favorite airline, can I call the agent, give exact flight numbers, spend the points + $50 and get an e-ticket issued immediately? Even if the rules are a little tighter than this, do I know my exact airline and flights before I commit to using the points, and can I alter my parameters slightly to get *my* airline (within reason)?

- Earning caps: sounds like you are going to do about $30k a year. A lot of cards are capped right around that level.

- When was the last time the bank overhauled the awards program? I'm convinced this is the #1 way banks make money on these programs. What are the chances that they will obsolete your favorite award type tomorrow?

- Points Expiration: as long as you continue to use the card, do points ever expire? Do they require one redemption per 3 years? 5 years?

- Any (reasonable) hotel/car awards? I have actually seen a couple cards that had acceptable (not great) car awards.

I previously had a Worldpoints card through MBNA before they actually called in Worldpoints. When MBNA increased their point requirements and lowered their maximum allowable fares I dropped the card and converted to their Amtrak card which allows you to earn miles in United and Continental; however, they are capped each year. The cap does not bother me becuase my primary card is the Starwood AmEx which I feel provides the best earning value out there despite the poor level of service from AmEx. I only use my MBNA card as a back-up where AmEx is not accepted.

With all of that said, I decided to switch back to the Worldpoints card next month instead of using the Amtrak card for a few reasons. I will still be using my Starwood as my primary card; however, I have been finding that it is becoming more and more difficult yo book airline award tickets due to blackout dates. I like the flexibility that Worldpoints provides in that they will use any airline that has an available seat. To be honest with you, I have more frequent flyer miles than I know what to do with (not really) so my goal is hotel points. MBNA is extremely flexible with hotel stays uisng points. I have stayed at Hiltons when Hilton awards were blacked out through HHonors. They also obtained a week for me at Disney World in their Animal Kingdom Lodge. The nice thing about Worldpoints is that you can still earn frequent flyer miles or hotel points on your flights/stays.

You indicated that you were interested in the MBNA card primarily for airline travel. I have only once used those points for airline travel. As someone previously mentioned you do not have the option to choose the airline. MBNA books you on the lowest fare; however, they are somewhat flexible with times of travel so I was able to book the flight that I wanted.

The last time I redeemed points was when MBNA contracted with Carlson Travel. I do not know if they still use Carlson, but if so the rep's are fantastic. Some of the rep's do not like to play games with discount codes for hotel stays, but some go well above and beyond the call of duty.

If you can live with their dollar caps on the awards, I would highly recommend the card. Again, I still use my Starwood AmEx as my primary card, but the Worldpoints card is a great back-up.

Thanks so much for your replies! This is very helpful to me so keep them coming. I have a question...

If I have a non-airline card like the MBNA WorldPoints card for instance, and earn a free ticket with the card, can I then earn miles from the airline even though the ticket was 'free'? I'm just trying to understand the nuts and bolts of how this works, and can't seem to find that "Air Miles for Dummies" book anywhere.... ;-)

And yes, to my knowledge MBNA is still using Carlson who owns Travelocity.

Julie

Hi Julie....I just got this card a couple of months ago. BIG POINTER: GET THEM TO GIVE YOU A BETTER APR THAN WHAT IS LISTED ON THE WEBSITE (even if you pay off in full every month -- just in case).

My girlfriend got a mailer from them about this card with a rate of 8.9% APR AFTER the intro special. I was intrigued with this and went online to research. I was disappointed that the online rate was higher. Since I have had an MBNA card in good standing for over a year, I figured I would call customer service to see if I could get this deal too -- NO PROBLEM! Perhaps the expiration date for this reduced-APR offer has already come, but you should try to get it anyway. MBNA DOES have great customer service -- if you've been a good customer of theirs you should fight for the best rate.

Just my 2 cents....good luck!

[This message has been edited by EmoryFlyer (edited 08-13-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Julie the Newbie:
...can I then earn miles from the airline even though the ticket was 'free'?

Julie</font>

Yes you can using Worldpoints miles because Carlson/MBNA actually pays for the airline ticket. Hotels and car rentals are handled slightly different. Carlson books you at the hotel of your choice and deducts the points from your account. However, they do not pay the hotel. Instead they issue you a credit on your MBNA Mastercard to offset the hotel charge. The hotel has absolutely no idea when you show up that you used Worldpoints for the stay since you are in essence charged for the room. As such, you need not battle with the hotel to earn HHonors, Starwood, etc. points. When MBNA first started this program they actually mailed a check to the hotel, but I guess that this turned into a real mess.

Neato! More brownie points for MBNA. Thanks for the good news! I guess I kind of had my mind made up but just wanted to be sure there wasn't anything bad I didn't know about.

However, even though I was favoring MBNA I was thinking of checking out Starwood to find out how many of the regular places I would be charging at accept AmEx, but those blackout dates would be rather annoying... Anyone else had those kind of issues occuring a lot w/Starwood?

Julie - I understand your enthusiasm, but lets' get down to earth a bit.

$30K spend typically gets you 30K miles. Maybe a 10K miles signup bonus.

A "standard" domestic round trip is usually 25K - off-season (some airlines) would be 20K. So, you mught have enough for two people to make a r/t once a year.

However, a growing dirty little secret of the airline/FF game is that these "standard" awards are getting harder to get (tightening up availability, reduced capacity since 9/11, etc.). With some airlines, you can get a "rule-buster" ticket, at twice the standard rate.

Internationlly, 50K miles is the normal threshold for a coach ticket. Business class 80K-100K, First 100K-150K. This is typically US-Europe. For Asia. S Pac, etc. expect to pay more.

So ... yes, it can be done. I do it, most of the others on this board do it. But it's not like paying for your newspaper with a credit card and then flying to Tahiti every year!

My advice - listen to the folks who have already replied. Start earning some miles. Read the other forums to get a feel for how the programs work and which one(s) would be right for you. Then you go, girl! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Well, I'm not sure what I said to make you think that I think my hubby and I are going to travel the world every year on air miles! Actually, I would be perfectly thrilled with *one* ticket to Hawaii or Europe after saving points for a year and a half or two. That's all. I'm really not expecting that much... I've never flown any other way than coach and I figure that will remain so I don't know what I'm missing. ;-) Basic math tells me I won't be one of the FT big boys here. Just figured I might as well try to earn a ticket while paying the bills so-to-speak. Seriously, am I missing something?

Uuugh, edited second time for typos! [This message has been edited by Julie the Newbie (edited 08-14-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Julie the Newbie (edited 08-14-2003).]

Well, I wasn't trying to be a buzzkill! Just making sure you were being somewhat realistic.

To quote you :

"I need a miles/points card that will allow us to earn points for travel all over the world really... Europe, Middle East, Hawaii, Austr/NZ, and Western US"

Sounds somewhat ambitious. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

But - if you are willing to moderate you plans, there is a lot you can do. Again, get a card, start earning some miles. If it's an affinity card, pick an airline you can live with. Check out the airline specific forums here. For example, it is rumoured that on Continental (CO) you can never get a standard award. Delta (DL) has other rumors rampant, too. Read and ask before you commit anything bigtime.

Your goals of a transcon or two, or a European trip are actually quite do able; you will need to plan, but, hey! that's half the fun.

And finally, since I don't think anyone else did it - Welcome to FlyerTalk!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Okay BigLar I see your point. Maybe AU/NZ won't happen, but hey. I do thank you for your posts, and for the friendly welcome! What does Worldwide Pants Guy mean anyway?

Julie--one point for you to consider. Do you (or hubby) earn many (any?) miles from traveling, in either airline or hotel programs? I think these independent bank-sponsored frequent charger travel programs are best suited only for people who will earn all of their miles from charging on their credit card.

If you charge 30,000 a year, but also fly 15,000 miles a year, then if the air miles and the charge miles all go into the same basket you have 45,000 miles a year. However, if you put the 30,000 charge miles into a bank program, you can never combine them with the traveling miles.

You questioned whether these tickets earn miles, and I understand that they generally do. But if the only miles you are going to earn is on these tickets you get from the bank program free tickets, it's going to take a long time before your airline miles amount to anything worth using.

Djlawman

Djlawman You are right on with your answer!! I NEVER fly with a paid tix. I only get my miles from credit card usage. I have used the Elan Visa card for about 6 years. Great customer service and the BEST part of the program is that YOU make a reservation on ANY airline and THEY buy the tix (as long as it does not exceed the max $$ limit). My wife and I have used them for when only one seat is available with our airline card and Elan buys the other seat. There are also other rewards if you like.

http://www.elancard.com/cgi_w/cfm/Elancard/PersonalCards/VisaPlatinumTravel.cfm

DJlawman, Good question... Not anymore! My hubby used to coach at the collegiate level so between matches and recruiting he would rack up points, but he's just switched careers. So now our mileage for paid tickets I imagine will be limited... *maybe* a trip for two once a year(?). That is something to consider though, because it seems it could add up in a hurry when combined with the cc as in your example. Even 15,000 miles a year can make a big difference how soon we earn the ticket we want. And 15,000 miles is what, roughly one trip across the country? Is there a website or something that is a good place to determine air miles from point A to point B? Hmmm...

ejflaro, thanks for the lead. I checked out the Elan card and found that compared to the MBNA, it takes more points to earn a ticket. The earning charts are quite different! However, the maximum prices are quite a bit better with the Elan card. I'm guessing the max. ticket prices are more valuable when choosing a card??? One thing I don't like though is the 20-25 day grace period (20...?!? Isn't that kinda crummy?) and $55 annual fee. But, with the max. prices being as good as they are, Hmmm... It's another one to ponder!

I'm still curious if others are having issues with their Starwood's blackout dates/not being able to book tickets because of them? Maybe I should post that as another topic. I'll go do some searching too...

Thanks all!

Julie

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Julie the Newbie:
And 15,000 miles is what, roughly one trip across the country? Is there a website or something that is a good place to determine air miles from point A to point B? Hmmm...</font>

Great Circle Mapper (http://gc.kls2.com/)


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
I'm still curious if others are having issues with their Starwood's blackout dates/not being able to book tickets because of them? Maybe I should post that as another topic. I'll go do some searching too...

Thanks all!

Julie</font>

Starwood has No Blackouts (http://www.starwood.com/preferredguest/starpoints/redeem_landing.html).

That is presuming you are talking about hotel rooms, which may not be the case. Otherwise, when redeeming Starwood Points for airline tickets the best thing to do is transfer in increments of 20,000 to the particular airline. Starwood provides a 5,000 mile bonus on each 20k transfer.

[This message has been edited by CountinPlaces (edited 08-15-2003).]

Aahh! Thanks CountinPlaces. And that's why everyone uses Starwood, huh? What a huge advantage! I had already heard that but had forgoten as I'm taking in a lot of info and being a bit overwhelmed at all there is to consider. Okay, maybe y'all have me thinking Starwood combined w/an Airline Visa/MC really is the way to go, even for me.

Oh, and this a.m. with a fresh mind I do realize that the country is only 3,000 (roughly?) or so across. I was tired last night, okay?! I guess a trip for two from CA to FL and back would be roughly 11-12,000, that adds up.

I was reading an article about transferring United air miles to other airline miles... because that can be done, would United be a good one to go with? Also, they seem to often have the lowest fares...

Which is the most stable? I'm concerned with the one I choose going under and all my points going bye-bye.

Bare with me, I think I'm almost getting this figured out!

Julie

[This message has been edited by Julie the Newbie (edited 08-15-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Julie the Newbie:
What does Worldwide Pants Guy mean anyway?</font>


http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif It's actually long story, based on a post I made in Omni a couple of months ago.

Worldwide Pants happens to be David Letterman's production company.

Flyertalker robb noticed that if you do a Google search on "biglar", 21 of the results include the word "pants".

So, putting things together (there's a lot of punning and other harmless fun things on this board), I decided to try that out for a while. Later, I'll probably put something else there.

If you really want to find the original post, go to FT Travel-&gt;Omni and search on "men's room" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Uh oh ... are you scared off yet? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif


[This message has been edited by BigLar (edited 08-15-2003).]

Ha-ha! No way, I'm not scared off. I wasn't expecting that explanation though... I thought maybe you were either a pants salesman or you wear very large (wide) ones. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

Hey I *finally* realized I needed to omit noses to make the smilies.

One other "final" (yeah, right!) question... are there any good leads on Visa/Mc hotel cards that I can use as backup to the Starwood and transfer to air miles? All those airline cc's have nasty annual fees... yuck. I'm going to go hunting, but a lot of the info I find is old w/dead links, expired offers, etc.

Julie

[This message has been edited by Julie the Newbie (edited 08-15-2003).]

I would just like to add my 2 bits to the conversation.

I've used many cards over the years. Both FF cards and "points" cards like the Worldpoints card.

Certainly, I agree that certain airlines are notorious for booking flights with mile. Continental is the worst. No question here. Delta and Northwest are better, but several months planning is definitely needed (say 6 months). American and United are the absolute best when using miles. I've done trips last minute with them or whenever. I have been very fortunate that time and again, they have almost always been able to cater to my evry whim.

To that end, I recommend any card that sponsors the American and United programs.

Thusly, I recommend the MBNA Amtrak wholeheartedly. Yes, there is a 25k/year redemption cap, but this is NOT an issue with MOST (except some POWER USERS on this board...LOL!). On a yearly basis, you can call or go online to transfer points to United. I've already done this 3 times. Transfers take 7 days. Very seemless. Plus, you can also use the points at a less attractive rate for hotels, merchants, rental cars, etc.

..........With all that said, I've also owned MBNA NEA and First USA World. At the time, they were fantastic cards. Great rewards and generous cap limits. Over a short time, however, they devolved, as some greedy young bank product manager trying to make a name for himself changed the rewards charts to UNNACCEPTABLE levels!! :=(

In other words, points cards ALWAYS change. Charts never stay the same. And they change for the WORSE. Always for the worse. So say you're in year 2, they could pull a whammy with the redemption chart/cap limit change and you're out of luck! I've been burned this way too many times this way!

Another thing is that points take time to earn for most people. Most point cards give you 3 to 5 years to use them or lose them. You can't keep using the card while keeping the points without expiring. This is a MAJOR turn-off. AT least with FF cards, you can keep the points active without expiration as long as you're regularly spedning with the card.

Many people in this board have wisely stuck to AMEX Starwood and MBNA Amtrak. Truly these are the 2 best cards to have in your wallet. I suggest you seriously go this way.

Forget the MBNA Worldpoints card. MBNA NEA was great but changed abhorrently. I have little doubt people will be complaining about the Worldpoints card sooner rather than later in one or two years. Save yourself the headache and don't sign up for this potential P.O.S.

In case you spend over $25k with Mastercard/Visa, then just get yourself an AA or United FF credit card to supplement the AMEX Starpoints.

I hope my advice helps. Good luck!........

I forgot to add, that even if you get a FF card ala United or AA in case you do consistently spend over $25k in Mastercard/Visa charges when they don't take AMEX Starwood........I STILL ADVISE you get the MBNA Amtrak.

MBNA is one of the very few banks that don't charge you hidden FX fees when travelling abroad. Citi AA, AMEX (they state 2% but sucky FX rate brings it also up to 3%), First USA United charge ~3%......... MBNA charges 1%!

When travelling on vaction in Europe or whatever, that extra 2% difference can make a BIG difference when spending several thousand dollars abroad.

Since the MBNA Amtrak card is free, might as well have it in your wallet. Especially when overseas!!!

I hop I haven't lost you with my thinking.

My logic only applies when dealing with the AMEX Starwood and Mastercard/Visa at hand.

Wolverine, Thank you for adding your two bits and for saving me from the P.O.S. Ha-ha! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif I love your direct, to-the-point manner, and yet you explained your reasoning so that I could back it up with further research. After reading your posts, viewing other posts, researching online, and comparing AA and United mileage charts I've decided to go with the Starwood/Amtrak combo. (I was debating going w/Alaskan/AA).

THANK YOU all! It's nice that people are willing to take the time to share their knowledge and experience with other folks they don't even know!

Now, I have a big question mark regarding another topic so off I go to create a new one...

Julie

Julie,
Glad we could all help.

I think you'll be very pleased with the AMEX Starpoints/MBNA Amtrak combo. It's truly a no-brainer for $30 out of pocket membership fee.

My parents were huge skeptics with these points earning programs. FINALLY, after evangelizing these products for over 6 months, they dipped their toes into the water.

Mind you, they are retired and not big spenders...just groceries, home depot, gas, and the like. Everything they used to pay with cash or check now went to the AMEX/MBNA.....I'm glad to say that in a couple of years time they have acculuated enough miles for 2 trips to Hawaii.....As a test, we called United to book the Hawaii trip at their theoretical chosen trip (4 months advance). United accomodated. Next we tried American. Again no problem with booking. Suffice to say that my old fogey parents are ECSTATIC! Now they are passing on the "religion" to others!

The Alaskan Air card is also very good because they can be used on many airlines. When I was *heavily* researching my choices, and looking at charts, the Alaska card din't quite cut it with certain areas. There definitely was a premium point redemption that turned me away. Still a good card with all things considered, but when MBNA Amtrak came to market, it just blew it away for my needs.

Currently, I'm travelling to India in December for a friend's wedding. My AMEX Starwood points will be going for hotels down there. They Starwood system has amazing properties and even more so than the miles chart, I find more value in the hotel chart......For instance, I stayed in Kauai, Hawai'i at the Princeville with points. As with all 5* Hawai'i resorts, the Princeville charges an arm and a leg for a stay. The room we got upgraded to (for just being Starwood "no status" members, they upgraded us!) was a $700/nite room overlooking the water area where they have filmed such movies "S. Pacific". FOr 10k pts. at .02 cents, I assumed I payed $200/nite--a much more sensible bargain for such a view!

Time and again, I have usd my Starwood points for hotels and airlines without a fuss. Especially with the hotel redemption which I have never, ever received any flak.

The Amtrak card has also proven fantastic. I had 27,000 points with Continental. As I mentioned preveiously, I can CONFIRM what other Flytalkers have said that time and again I have NEVER gotten anywhere with those points on Continental. Since their points never expire, they were sitting in my Continental for over 9 years.........

Well, I decide to use the Continental--&gt; Amtrak--&gt;United maneuver that has been discussed to death here. At least with my Continental points in my United account, I could FINALLY make USE of them!!.....Since Amtrak redemption is *only* in 5,000 intervals, I needed to top off my 27,000 pt Continental account with an extra 3,000 points. This would bring my Continental account to 30,000--this would fit perfectly to this Amtrak scheme (and their 5k pt redemotion rule). Thusly, I transferred 3k points from Starwood to Continental. The transfer took 1 week. With 30k pts in Continental, I called Amtrak. They then transferred ALL 30k to my United account! Transfer took another week. Yipeee! In 2 weeks total time, I had now actual, believable, tangible use of these 30k points!

I repeated this Continental to Amtrak to United maneuver with my wife's account. Now, we have not 1 point in Continental. Good riddance to Continental!

I will continue to use these cards until they change their redemption charts. They better not! Or else I'm out of there and onto the next thing (i.e. Alaska cc)! Thus far, after some years, AMEX Starwood and MBNA Amtrak have been GOLDEN!

I wish you the same success and future HAPPY travels with these cards!

(Make sure that when you travel abroad to ONLY use MBNA Amtrak instead of AMEX Starwood due to the 1% FX fee charged by MBNA vs ~3% with AMEX. Since my wife is constantly used to using AMEX as the *preferred* card in the States, I have to CONSTANTLY REMIND her to use *only* MBNA on her overseas business trips. I better not see any AMEX charges while she's in Germany! LOL! It's taken a while to get her to change her AMEX purchase instincts when overseas. It may seem trivial to her, but that extra 2% B.S. under-the-carpet fees REALLY ADD UP and real value is LOST for no real, legitmate reason! Know what I mean? ;=) )


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I want to also take this time to THANK Flyertalkers over the years who have advised me in this same manner for making me a much, much more savvy traveler. Flyertalk is defintely one of the most informative places on the internet and thus I raise my glass in a hearty ***CHEERS*** to you ALL! :=)
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