U.K. and Ireland - Train games

Hello!

I'm quickly approaching the time when I can order advanced tickets for a TRAIN trip we're planning, and I wanted to see if I could come here for some advice. I've asked a similar question before, the circumstances may have changed slightly.

First the itenary:
Travel from LONDON (MYB or PAD) to SAV on a Sunday
Wednesday, travel from SAV to OXF, get off for some site seeing and then return to LONDON (MYB or PAD).

My options as I see them.
Option 1:
MYB-SAV (Chiltern); SAV-BAN(return1); BAN-OXF; OXF-BAN (return2), BAN-MYB (return1)
That needs two tickets:
MYB-SAV return 17.00
BAN-OXF return 6.30

However, they seem to classify the 9:40 train departing SAV as 'NOT' usable with the Saver rate, and the next one out is 11:40. In order to maximize time in OXF, we question the soundness of that, and thus come up with a way to get to OXF earlier:

Option 2:
MYB-SAV (Chiltern); SAV-OXF; OXF-BAN (return2, toss ticket); BAN-MYB (return1)
MYB-SAV return 17.00
SAV-OXF return 13.80
And here's the bite in the arse. The 9:40 train at that time *IS* classified as a Saver Ticket!!! I'm pretty sure it's the same train, so why the discrepancy?

Option 3:
Instead of backtracking to get onto Chiltern again...

MYB-SAV ; SAV-OXF; OXF-PAD
Note that we can't split the 'outgoing' trip, so that means two separate tickets in order to stop at OXF...
MYB-SAV 16.90
SAV-OXF 13.80
OXF-PAD 4.00 (if you buy in advance and lock in)
OXF-PAD 18.90 (if you buy at the station day of)
Of course, the advance tix requires we know when we're returning to London, and that cuts down flexibility a great deal, which is why the options with the return tickets look so tasty.

Final option is to forgo the direct MYB-SAV and instead...
PAD-SAV via OXF return: 17 (back where we started with the restriction on the 9:40 train, and we add an hour and at least one train change to the London-SAV leg).
If we wanted an earlier train out (and couldn't convince them that we were allowed to use the saver return), we could get the SAV-OXF leg at the previously stated 13.80, which looks a lot like option 2, and only changes where we pull into London, PAD vs MYB.

Whew!
As said, I've tried to do my research...

So... now the questions.

1) Is there any way to convince the SAV attendant that on a Wednesday, that a Saver return can be used on a 9:40 train?

2) Is there any way to do MYB-SAV-OXF-PAD on a single ticket (@ price 17?), and if so, what are the magic words I have to ask of the ticketing issuer to make me get such a thing?

3) Is there a trick to purchasing a one way from SAV-??? so that the train counts as a SAVER eligible train at the ??? station, thus allowing me to use the original MYB-SAV return to full extent?

4) And most importantly, is there something I'm overlooking or not taking into account?

So... now the questions.

1) Is there any way to convince the SAV attendant that on a Wednesday, that a Saver return can be used on a 9:40 train?

2) Is there any way to do MYB-SAV-OXF-PAD on a single ticket (@ price 17?), and if so, what are the magic words I have to ask of the ticketing issuer to make me get such a thing?

3) Is there a trick to purchasing a one way from SAV-??? so that the train counts as a SAVER eligible train at the ??? station, thus allowing me to use the original MYB-SAV return to full extent?

4) And most importantly, is there something I'm overlooking or not taking into account?

To answer (2) first, your standard £17 ticket (which is a 'super off-peak' ticket) is a walk-up ticket with a few restrictions on when it may be used. It also provides for break of the return journey (but not the outward journey), and _is_ valid for a return direct from Oxford to Paddington. You do _not_ have to book it in advance; you can get the same price on the day. (It's not capacity controlled, and although I'm not positive, I don't think Chiltern do seat reservations anyway.)

As for (1), no chance. However, if you go to the next fare up, the Saver at £30, it's all valid.

(3) Obviously, you could buy a Stratford-Oxford single ticket, and that's what I'd recommend. (Or use the £30 Saver fare, which works out 80p cheaper.) But the problem is that (so far as I can make out from the dribs of the fares manual that they put out on the net :( ) you have to be on a train that is due to arrive in London after 2pm on that fare, so nothing earlier than the 11:40 will do. (And given that the 11:40 arrives at 1:55pm, there's clearly a fudge factor.)

(4) What you're not taking into account is that the British railway system is complex and illogical, and although it works reasonably well a lot of the time (providing you're (a) not travelling at weekends and (b) not using Virgin) getting the best fare is a dark art known only to a few. If you care to go over to the Usenet group uk.railway, there's a couple of guys over there called Barry Salter and Clive Feather who know this stuff backwards.

And here's the bite in the arse. The 9:40 train at that time *IS* classified as a Saver Ticket!!! I'm pretty sure it's the same train, so why the discrepancy?
Just because the ticket has the same name, doesn't mean the ticket will be the same price even between the same stations.

However if I understand what you've written - and boy is it overcomplex - the reason why the fares are different are that you aren't taking the same route - you are splitting the tickets at different stations plus you are travelling at around the time off-peak rates apply so from station A you might have to pay the full whack as you are starting just before off peak, whilst from the next station you would be able to pay the off peak rate.

So just so I can confirm what you are trying to do - you are travelling from London to Stratford-upon-Avon on a Sunday, then you want to travel to Oxford on the following Wednesday and then - at some undetermined point in the future - travel to London

Yes, it seems you are benefitting from through ticketing. Through ticketing used to be legal, but the train guards don't always know that. My last employer actually gave us the reference in the train manual which applied on a through ticket on the east coast mainline, as it could be substantially cheaper to buy (e.g.) York - Peterborough - London rather than just York - London if you were travelling at the switch over time from peak to off-peak.

If you do it as a 'direct' ticket then the saver is not valid. If you ticket it as two different routes, then the saver is valid from Stratford upon Avon. From memory, 9.30 is the changeover time from peak to off-peak (generally, there are some exceptions).

I'd be heading straight for www.avis.co.uk

Okay, it's quite simple really. You just need to ask for a Saver return ticket from Paddington to Stratford-upon-Avon via Oxford (£30 return). No need to book in advance. With Saver return tickets, on the return journey, you can generally travel back on any train(s) which arrives in London after 11am on a weekday. There are no restrictions at weekends or on bank holidays. So that means you can definitely depart at 09:40 on Wednesday morning from Stratford (who told you you couldn't?) and break your journey in Oxford and resume your journey back to London at any time later in the day. Obviously you would have to travel via Oxford on the outbound as the ticket would not be valid from Marylebone (no break of journey permitted on outbound, only to change trains).

Hmm, let me see.

IIRC, the cheap Chiltern tickets are 'via Banbury'. However, as the Cherwell Line joins at Banbury, you could technically use your ticket via there. However, it's the Super Off-Peak ticket (rather than the Saver) that has the restriction on the 09:40 ex-SAV.

byronczimmer - can I make a suggestion?

Next time you ask about UK train connections use place names, not codes that the majority of people won't understand.

I know it's FT "house style" to refer to airports (and sometimes even the cities that they serve) by using three-letter IATA codes... but no one here in the UK refers to train stations by three-letter codes. Regular users of nationalrail.co.uk are probably familiar with a handful of codes belonging to stations they use on a regular basis, but that's about as far as it goes.

UK Flyer...

Thank You for pointing out the existance of a fare class I hadn't seen before (Normal Saver at 30 pounds) -- it'd been hidden by the 17 Pound Super Saver fare being lower!

Now I have enough knowledge to truly plan. It will all depend on what my travelling partners want...

Regardless, this endeavor is now bounded by 30 pounds / person.

byronczimmer - can I make a suggestion?

Next time you ask about UK train connections use place names, not codes that the majority of people won't understand.

I know it's FT "house style" to refer to airports (and sometimes even the cities that they serve) by using three-letter IATA codes... but no one here in the UK refers to train stations by three-letter codes. Regular users of nationalrail.co.uk are probably familiar with a handful of codes belonging to stations they use on a regular basis, but that's about as far as it goes.

+1. I gave up reading the OP after about two lines. What's even worse, a number of stations have 3-letter codes that coincide with IATA codes for totally different places; case in point I need to take the train to "MIA" in order to fly from MAN!

I thought the OP was nuts to take a train from London to Savannah, GA....