Suggestions - If moderators make alterations, the author should be notified, at the very least

The current setup appears to be that a moderator can alter a thread title or the contents of a post and the author doesn't even get notified. Something that you haven't said can be attributed to you and indexed across the net forever and you don't even know about it.

Worse, if they change a title, you don't get informed and you have no way to fix it even if you do eventually happen to find out about it.

When we users make edits to other people's text, it is logged at least on the message. If a mod changes a title, we don't even know who did, or when.

I suggest that if changes are made to someone's post, the author should be notified automatically and immediately, at the very least. There should also be a facility to undo changes that the author doesn't agree with.

There should also be a facility to undo changes that the author doesn't agree with.

There is and it's called a PM to the moderators of the forum where your title was changed.

In the bottom right-hand corner of the main forum page, the moderator(s) will be listed. I suggest sending them a collective PM such as:

"Hi. My thread title in "X" Forum, originally titled "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" was changed to "Planes, Trains and Trolley Cars" without any notification. And I can't change it back.

Can you let me know why it was changed?"

After you see the answer from the mod(s), perhaps you can work out a compromise title that's acceptable to all.

Just my two pesos on how I'd handle the situation.

Just my two pesos on how I'd handle the situation.

Yeah, I'll get to that sometime. Doesn't alter the fact that it's bloody rude to go around changing other people's posts without telling them.

Yeah, I'll get to that sometime. Doesn't alter the fact that it's bloody rude to go around changing other people's posts without telling them.

Not making excuses but sometimes "stuff" happens. Maybe the phone rang as s/he was getting ready to notify you and then it slipped their mind.

Or maybe the dog wanted out now and they got sidetracked and forgot to alert you.

Or maybe s/he was feeling ornery at the time and had no intention of notifying you. :p

Seriously, we all interact with FT amidst our daily lives and sometimes the real world trumps the cyber world.

Not making excuses but sometimes "stuff" happens.

Sure. That's why I said it should be automatic. Readers know automatically if we have edited a post of our own, so it strikes me as ludicrous that they aren't told when someone else has modified it.

I have had a post removed as it contained a quote from another post that had to be deleted.
I spent ages looking for my post without any joy and finally came to the conclusion that it had indeed been removed as well.

A notification from the Mod concerned would have been appreciated especially as my post contained innocent content. As to PM'ing the Mods, It has been my experience that they go unanswered.

i had a post deleted by a moderator for what i considered political reasons without notifying me. when i looked for it and couldn't find it i assumed i had not actually posted so i posted it again. this got me what i considered to be a rude pm from the moderator telling me to quit making duplicate posts. the moderator should have notified me after the first deletion instead of beating me up after the second.

I was just thinking a tool to know that a moderator has "cleansed" a thread :rolleyes: would be much appreciated. I believe I posted in another thread in this forum, but just noticed that my post doesn't exist. I don't know if it was removed as too many saying the same thing or for some other reason OR that the post just never completed and I didn't successfully post it to begin with.

Isn't there a capability with this vbb software to provide a view into mod actions, and reasons ... not saying post all the text that was found offensive, but having someone figure out their information was modified/deleted by accident is really not fair to either the person or the representation of their post as something it is not or that it no longer exists but that fact isn't known so its assumed to be there (and the poster chases their tail looking for it, or assumes it didn't exist and reposts the same thing again - as I'll likely do shortly)

Transparency is a good thing and there is an increasing amount of 'opaque' on this site

I have noticed that mods are e-mailing me after I RBP. I hope they are e-mailing or PMing the OP when they do that. I mainly only RBP for dupes since I don't know how many mods cross read those exact forums...but if I posted in the UA forum and the *Alliance forum and they got merged or whatever I'd like to know there my thread went. I don't cross post so I don't know if the mods usually do e-mail or PM the OP.

I was just thinking a tool to know that a moderator has "cleansed" a thread :rolleyes: would be much appreciated. I believe I posted in another thread in this forum, but just noticed that my post doesn't exist. I don't know if it was removed as too many saying the same thing or for some other reason OR that the post just never completed and I didn't successfully post it to begin with.

Are you referring to this post (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9785024) in the search problems thread? The post seems normal enough to me.

Are you referring to this post (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9785024) in the search problems thread? The post seems normal enough to me.
I was but was thinking I put it in a different thread that had the same complaint ... thanks for clearing this one up for me :)

The current setup appears to be that a moderator can alter a thread title or the contents of a post and the author doesn't even get notified. Something that you haven't said can be attributed to you and indexed across the net forever and you don't even know about it.

Worse, if they change a title, you don't get informed and you have no way to fix it even if you do eventually happen to find out about it.

When we users make edits to other people's text, it is logged at least on the message. If a mod changes a title, we don't even know who did, or when.

I suggest that if changes are made to someone's post, the author should be notified automatically and immediately, at the very least. There should also be a facility to undo changes that the author doesn't agree with.

I'd like to politely debate this issue with you.

I take more liberties than most moderators in editing thread titles. I edit for one of the following reasons:

To accurately reveal the subject of the thread, replacing a vague title,
To give forum readers a heads-up that the thread has drifted into a somewhat new subject, or that there has been a material change in previous information, or
To correct simple spelling errors.


I have an admittedly low tolerance for intentionally vague "teaser" titles, which I regard as a waste of many readers' time. That issue is worth debating if you disagree. I sometimes have fun changing titles to reflect the evolving status of a deal, from uncertain to hot to dead and various states in between. And correcting spelling errors doesn't harm anyone.

In cases 1 and 2, I almost always add "Was: (previous title)" to the new title. That way casual readers are not confused.

If you couldn't tell by now, I regard the readers as my customers, since they far outnumber the poster. Other FTers may disagreee.

As to edits of post content, I generally include a note in the post explaining what was edited and why. The most common edit is removal of copyrighted content or mild TOS violations not warranting further action. I don't feel the need to make a big deal about it, which sending a PM would signal. Feel free to try to persuade me that a not in the post is not adequate for the cases I mentioned.

Finally, I am highly responsive to PM requests to change my mind.

Let the debate begin!

I have an admittedly low tolerance for intentionally vague "teaser" titles, which I regard as a waste of many readers' time. That issue is worth debating if you disagree. I sometimes have fun changing titles to reflect the evolving status of a deal, from uncertain to hot to dead and various states in between. And correcting spelling errors doesn't harm anyone.

It depends a little on where one draws the line. I like short, concise titles. I tend not to put, say, dates, in a title, because it's always possible that an offer/mistake/etc deadline might change. If so, that can be reported within the thread.

In cases 1 and 2, I almost always add "Was: (previous title)" to the new title. That way casual readers are not confused.
...
As to edits of post content, I generally include a note in the post explaining what was edited and why.

You may do that, but plenty of other mods don't. If I contribute content to a site, I expect it to remain the way it was unless there is a good reason to change it. We, the contributors, are the authors. Mods are editors. Editors don't (for any normal type of publishing) just change an author's work without telling them. I'm sure that mods edit many things. If I wrote about a deal and you were to change the status as it evolved, that would be fine with me. However, I'd still like to be kept informed that it was happening, both for my own interest and in case you got it wrong. Hence, I think it would be good if the software did so automatically, to ensure the author keeps informed and the mod doesn't have to manually do so.

You may do that, but plenty of other mods don't. If I contribute content to a site, I expect it to remain the way it was unless there is a good reason to change it.
(snip)
Hence, I think it would be good if the software did so automatically, to ensure the author keeps informed and the mod doesn't have to manually do so.
Automated notification would be good, no question. You should PM Mikel to ask if it's possible or put it on the wish list for vBulletin.

If I edit due to an evolving deal, it's always by adding a paragraph at the end to the OP. I haven't gotten any complaints about that or any other edits I've done, with one exception that was a very special case.

Editing content for no good reason is something I haven't heard of before. If you'd like to PM me any specific examples, I may be able to assemble a coherent package and discuss it with other mods.

Each mod and their forum can be managed very differently from others, as each provide their own flavor and level of control.

I'm glad you add extra info regarding what you've changed but the issue is that the update doesn't adjust the thread date so it doesn't pop onto the poster's my flyertalk list or any other way so they KNOW to look at their post again. It's good you support your change but IMO its useless if the poster isn't even aware to go check their post and what you added.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't make a habit of checking that my post is untouched, it should be a valid assumption instead I (or others) occasionally happen to notice that someone's fingers were busy. To be honest, too often I don't recall the exact original content and therefore am uncertain of the change that was made.

Editing content for no good reason is something I haven't heard of before. If you'd like to PM me any specific examples, I may be able to assemble a coherent package and discuss it with other mods.

The issue which caused me to post about this was that I posted something and, weeks later, found out that the title of my post had been edited in a way that I would never have done. The post, in itself, was not important and has been fixed. What concerns me is that someone can write a post and it can be changed without the author's knowledge. The potential exists for that to sit until noticed, possibly forever, with words attributed to the author/indexed on google/etc which the author never wrote.

In the day-to-day context, you, the mod, don't know what the author would object to. I'll give you an example from another site: I posted something and found months later that a mod had put a date in my title in mm/dd/yy format. That is an incredibly stupid, annoying, non-standard format that I would never use and I object to my content being adulterated with something I would never use myself. There are no earth-shattering consequences, but, at the very least, I want to know it's been done. The mod probably didn't consider it important. Of course, at the extreme, a mod could, either accidentally or on purpose, cause a lot of damage by making alterations and the author(s) not being notified.

In the day-to-day context, you, the mod, don't know what the author would object to.

That's true. We make assumptions, and they are not always correct. We are human, and our time is somewhat limited (especially for busier forums). So it is unlikely but possible that the author might object to a title change made for the benefit of readers.

I come back to the point that readers far outnumber the poster, and that serving readers is therefore more important than keeping the poster's title inviolate. It's only an internet bulletin board.

However I completely support automated notification for all edits. I also support manual notification by the moderator if the original wording is not somehow preserved (was: old title) or the change is described in an addendum to the body of the post.

I'll research the vBulletin functionality and see if there is any way to auto notify members when a post they've made has been edited, but off the top of my head I don't believe that functionality currently exists.

If I find the functionality does exist, deciding whether or not to implement it is another matter entirely, but it's certainly a reasonable suggestion and worth exploring.

To prevent this thread from devolving (any more) into a discussion of moderation I'm going to close it at this point.