Starwood Preferred Guest - Argentina SPG trip proposal (Iguazu and Cafayete)

I'm considering booking this trip, but I need to figure out the timing of it. My wife and I are interested in a trip to Argentina, and in particular to the wine areas. We have never been to South America.

There are some existing threads specific to Iguazu and specific to Cafayate, but I haven't noticed one that mentions visiting both together. Has anyone here been to Iguazu and Salta/Cafayate in the same trip?

I've had my eye on Patio de Cafayate since before it opened, and I would look for it to be a relaxing place to visit much like the Mexican Haciendas. It is a frequent participant in the C&P offers, so we would likely consider that rate option (unless the cash price is reasonable and/or I need the stay credits, etc.)

Here's what I'm looking at so far...
Thu - evening departure from U.S. to EZE
Fri - Buenos Aires
Sat - Buenos Aires
Sun - Iguazu (morning flight from Buenos Aires to Iguazu)
Mon - Salta (afternoon flight from Iguazu to Salta via Buenos Aires)
Tue - Cafayate
Wed - Cafayate
Thu - Cafayate
Fri - Cafayate
Sat - Buenos Aires (afternoon flight from Salta)
Sun - evening departure from EZE to U.S.

I'm thinking that I'd need to plan this for either October/November (spring) or March/April (fall). Any advice about the best time to go or whether my schedule above is reasonable?

I found the following threads to be helpful for my research:
Sheraton Salta and Patios de Cafayete: any reviews? (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=529404)

Trip Report: Patios de Cafayate & BA Park Tower, Argentina (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=500483)

Sheraton Iguazu, Argentina [Master Thread] (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167907)

My only suggestion would be to plan a full day at Iguazu, spending two nights there. There is so much to see on both sides of the border....can you swing an extra day?

Check the Argentina forum, you're sure to get feedback over there.

I don't know what the Iguazu watershed is like, but typically waterfalls are way bigger in the spring than they are in the fall.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=701906

Sorry, I think your Patios visit is a false economy. Sheraton Salta is a great property for golds or platinums. Patios is, well, "????". You will have a three hour drive each way thru pretty nice scenery. You will need a car since there is not much available in terms of "conceirge" service at Patios. Think about absolutely none and is your Spanish fluent (Castillian?). Who will book your winery visits and how will you find them??

If you want to do wine, Mendoza is a much better venue with developed infrastructure. If you have budget concerns, try the Hotel Argentino and use a free service call "The Vines" to book your visits and remise driver.

http://www.argentino-hotel.com/site.html
http://www.vinesofmendoza.com/

Also www.spg.com says that a Starwood property will open in Mendoza in August, 2008 but not taking reservations so I would not count on them for this fall.

I just did a search for early October, no points and $$ at Patios, rate is $US315+20%, if points and dollars available it would be 4000+$US60+, I bet 20% (probably no breakfast, YMMV) Argentino is approximately $70+/night. Do not panic when looking at Argentinian non-chain hotel sites, $=peso, not US dollar. Exchange rate is approximately 3.1 pesos/USD.

I have not visited Iquazu, but will in early September after Cow-do. There are lots of reports about the Sheraton property-not many of them good, but it is the only game in town literally. We are staying on points at highly inflated rates based on the reports of that property. Despite that, we are staying 2 nights.

Not to be harsh, but Mendoza without SPG is a better, less complicated situation than your plan for Salta and Patios with.

And, Mendoza has great Malbecs and "The Vines" can get you in to taste them. The cost for a remise with locally knowledgable driver should be about the same as a rental car daily rate. Please believe me that it is difficult to find the wineries, the afternoon of our visits, we had a couple follow us to wineries that they could not find on their own in their own vehicle.

Oh, an additional thought, flight schedules to Salta and Mendoza thru BA are limited. We did Mendoza to Salta with about a 6 hour layover. Mendoza is actually more easily reached thru SCL, but the transfer is possible thru the BA domestic airport (Jorge Newberry). I suggest you use Lan Argentina for your flights as AR is problematic in terms of on-time delivery and cancellations. I definitely would not use a combination of the two airlines on either routing.

Unless, you have been in Buenos Aires before, I believe you need more time there. Just MHO.

I realize that more time in BA would be desirable, but we anticipate the opportunity to connect in that city again in the future so we don't feel obligated to see and do it all. Salta, Cafayette, and Iguazu might more likely be once-in-a-lifetime destinations -- once we've been there, I'm not sure that we'd be likely to return.

opushomes, your opinions and those of Gaucho100K's clients are making me rethink Cafayette altogether.

kevinsac, I tossed around whether or not we'd do 1 or 2 days in Iguazu. I found nearly an equal number of reviews on both sides of the debate. So I cut a day in Iguazu in favor of more time relaxing in Cafayette. We do not have as many vacation days as we would like. :cool: It's possible to arrive into Iguazu mid-day and leave the next afternoon. (If flights run on schedule, of course.)

The Sheraton Mendoza was previously forecast to open April 2008. It's now showing August 2008 and could certainly slip. This trip would either be this October/November or in 2009. Regardless, I don't think that the Sheraton Mendoza is in the middle of the city and would not offer the relaxing, countryside atmosphere that I was seeking. Sounds like we'll need to venture outside of SPG properties for most of the trip (except in Iguazu where Sheraton has the monopoly).

With that in mind, an SPG elite friend has already recommended to me that I go with a local hotel while in BA for substantially less cost than the SPG properties there. But I figured that I would get the SPG-specific input in this forum before continuing my research in the Argentina forum.

Thanks to each of you that have responded so far. If anyone else disagrees or has additional input, please post.

Slightly OT: The Sheraton Mendoza's website says, "Its position at the foot of the Andes Mountains puts it right next to Argentina’s best skiing (Las Leñas (http://www.laslenas.com))." From my perspective. this is like flying into central Nebraska to get to Vail. Mendoza might have one of the most convenient airports for getting to Las Lenas, but I don't consider 6 hours away to be "right next to" anything.

Gaucho has listed a number of Estancia(-type) properties. I bet that direct contact with him will result in some recommendations. Also, I suggest that you contact The Vines, many of the properties where they book tasting also have rooms and dinners/lunches. How can one ignore excellent service at an excellent price-free??

When we visited, we knew nothing about Mendoza, little about Malbecs (hey, we live in Pinot Noir country.) and really nothing about Argentina. We had heard really good things from people who had visited including a number of FTers. Please note that we are returning after a year because we really like the people and the country not to ignore the wines. The Mendoza thread has lots of great very useful information. My desire was to stay in town and not pay Park Hyatt prices so I did not research Estancias and we stumbled upon Argentino. Having been there, we would now consider staying outside of Mendoza since we think we can solve the transportation issue. i.e. have our driver pick us up at the place in the country rather than in town. A telephone call to the Vines of Mendoza would solve the booking issues. For English speakers-they speak fluent English. Normally the drivers that they arrange have a printed itinerary (note: our driver spoke no English, but we conversed and communicated).

Estancia vs. city really boils down to dinner choices. Obviously more and varied ones in the city. Some of the wineries are renowned for their cuisine so one could probably eat each evening where one stays and still not become "over-beefed" in terms of cuisine which is much more international in scope.

We actually were initially booked for lunch at one particular winery, thought we were booked and at the last minute were diverted to another due to the 1st being full. That being said, the meal was great, the wine pours were overly generous and excellent. We did visit our first choice late that afternoon for tasting and found that to our palate, their wines were somewhat more to our taste. The lunch wines (5 flights) were also to our taste, just different as can be expected.

No matter what you decide, enjoy Argentina to its fullest. It is a great place to visit with a truly international flavor.

But since you're talking about "once in a lifetime experiences," well, Iguazu is just that -- it is spectacular! I don't understand why you're giving it such short shrift. :confused:

As well, since you say you like to "relax," it is much more relaxing to stay two nights there and have time to enjoy the beauty of the place at a leisurely pace, rather than do the "death march" style of visit.

As for Mendoza, it is a nice town in its own right, worth a wander about. I stayed in the Hotel Argentino for one night (the one recommended by opushomes above). It was OK for my needs, but rather on the basic side. A good breakfast (continental plus) was included in the rate. The location was great, on a main plaza.

kevinsac, I tossed around whether or not we'd do 1 or 2 days in Iguazu. I found nearly an equal number of reviews on both sides of the debate. So I cut a day in Iguazu in favor of more time relaxing in Cafayette. We do not have as many vacation days as we would like. :cool: It's possible to arrive into Iguazu mid-day and leave the next afternoon. (If flights run on schedule, of course.)

--OP, if at all possible, I'd advise on adding a day to Iguazu. When we were there last March, we booked the first flight out of B.A to Iguazu (6am ish), only to have that flight cancelled without prior notification. By the time we got to Iguazu, dropped off our luggage at the hotel, and got to the falls, it was late afternoon. The falls are simply to beautiful to miss out on either the Brazillian or the Argentinian side.

I am in total agreement about Iguazú. At least stay two nights at the Sheraton, only property actually within the park boundaries. Get through the gate as it opens, as the non-guests are struggling to get through the parks check-in building and onto the train - as you walk you will see birds, and very possibly moneksy and other life, the others will never see (they bail when the crowds get dense.)

Afternoons, again, you will see wildlife and avifauna in particular the others wil not see - keep an eye on the trees nearest the entry gate form the hotel grounds for the Ramphastos sulfuratus ("fruit loops" or keel-billed or sulfur-breasted) toucans, for instance. As well, the play of light creates neverending changes on the falls, and Argentina's side (much more extensive than Brasil's) offers lots of exploring and wandering.

IMO, three nights and two full days does the falls much more justice, and if you have a Brtazilian visa (if not, be prepared to pay the reciprocity fee the US sets the price of) take a third day to see that side, eat at a rodizio and take the helicopter ride - yes, brief and touristy, but spectacular - and the Parque do Aves.

We visited Iguassu Falls last week and only spent a day and a half (two nights) there. We got in, were driven directly to the helipad, took the helicopter tour for an overview, went to the hotel, checked in, ate dinner, and had a good night's sleep. Next day, we did the Argentinean side in the morning, the Brazil side in the afternoon, and went through the safari to the boat ride, then took did a whitewater raft back. Went to dinner in town, went to bed, flew out the next morning. Granted, we stayed on the Brazilian side at the Hotel Cataratas so YMMV.

Really, I think we gave Iguassu more than its due but obviously members on this board feel differently. Our itinerary sounds packed when I looked over it but I think it's no problem packing in a full day as long as you have a proper sleep the night before and the night of the big day.

Anyway, thought I'd share my experience.

Obviously, my "if-flights-operate-on-schedule" qualification is a valid concern. I value the opinions here on FT more than those of the complete strangers on some of the other reviews that I read, so I'll add a second day and the Brazilian side as a requirement for the Iguazu portion of this trip.

KathyWdrf, my proposal for a short stay in Iguazu was based on 1) many reviews that said that 1 night was adequate and 2) the desire to later have more than 3 nights in a row during which we do not have to relocate. My impression of many of the reviews in favor of 2 nights was that many people showed up late on the first day or left early their next day, and that they simply didn't take advantage of the time that they had. But when we are out hiking, we move at a good pace, so I figure that we'll get around faster than the average tourist. But I also figured that if experienced FTers felt otherwise, they'd tell me. @:-) That was the point of this thread, after all.

opushomes, I wouldn't dream of booking this trip before contacting Gaucho100K! We are familiar with malbecs and the wine world of Mendoza, but your last post is also selling them and the area to me quite well. I'll work on a Mendoza plan instead of Cafayete. (Too bad about Cafayete. Reviews seemed so good when they first opened a few years back. :() Perhaps the Sheraton Mendoza will end up as part of the plan, but it doesn't fit my original vision of the trip. More likely, a local non-SPG property will come into play.

MumbaiFlyer, the problem that I see with trying to do your itinerary with just 1 night is that we wouldn't have much of the second afternoon unless we were planning to overnight again in BA. As it is, I had in mind that we would leave Iguazu in time to connect in BA and continue on to our next city (such as Salta or Mendoza).

sc flier, I realize this is taking you in a bit different direction than you've suggested - but consider going to Santiago by bus from Mendoza and flying home to the States from there. It's a spectacular ride thru the Andes, roughly 7 hours long. And you don't have to pay a visa fee to enter Chile by bus. Since you will already have been in Buenos Aires, it will add a new dimension to your trip.

There are well regarded Starwood properties in Santiago, from the Four Points to the Luxury Collection.

Just came across this thread, so I regret being so late to the discussion.

My wife and I did a BA/Iguazu/Mendoza/Salta/Cafayete (though only a day trip) combination. Your original post lists the thread I started that included discussion of that trip, so I'll try not to duplicate that discussion much.

We had about a week more than you--I think our trip was about 16 days. We spent close to half of it in BA because it's such a great city and because we were staying with good friends there. But your plan to concentrate on other places in Argentina certainly makes sense.

I think the schedule you laid out basically makes sense, with a couple of possible adjustments. Here are a few thoughts, FWIW:

1. As others have noted, Iguazu is well worth two nights. And if you have the points or cash for it, the Sheraton inside the park is definitely the place to stay. But make sure you book a room facing the Falls--otherwise you're just looking out at the parking lot. Try to get one as high a floor as possible. And to the extent that you can even request this before or try to get it upon arrival, I'm pretty sure that the further to the left you are (facing the falls), the better the view of them. We met folks who visited the Brazilian side and they told us that the Argentine side is more impressive, but we don't know that for a fact so I can't advise for sure whether getting over to the Brazilian side is worth the effort. Having said that, putting your one full day at the hotel into just exploring the Argentine side and not bothering with the Brazilian side would sound fine to me. I guess I'd opt to visit the Brazilian side during a three-night trip but not a two-night one.
2. Salta is a nice city that's worth an extra day if you're so inclined. And the Sheraton there is a fine hotel--not spectacular, but a good place to stay.
3. We only visited Cafayete on a day trip, but I came away regretting not staying there instead of taking a trip to Mendoza. It's a very nice property with beautiful rooms. Not sure what there is to do near there, though.
4. I was not wowed by Mendoza, though I must say that we stayed at a not-so-great little hotel outside town and did not rent a car/driver to do a day trip to the Andes foothills nearby, which would have been fun. But just in terms of the beauty of the vinyard areas right around the city, I'd take Napa any day. (In contrast, last year we visited South Africa and the wine areas outside Cape Town and were blown away by the scale and splendor of the scenery.) And the city itself was OK but no great shakes.
5. I definitely agree with another poster who recommended Lan Argentina over Aerolinas. And if you do connect through BA in one day going from Iguazu to Salta, of course tak the earliest flight possible from Iguazu to decrease the chances of weather or whatever else messing up your connection.
6. IMHO, then, you have a good plan. But definitely add a day to Iquazu and consider another in Salta.
7. Not sure what to recommend re March/April versus October/November.

Anyway, happy trails!