Qualiflyer - LX: Swiss carrier takes up easyJet price gauntlet

Information source: http://www.reuters.co.uk/marketsBreakingNewsHome.jhtml?cat=1&storyID=2018239&marketID=0&basket=UK_COFORCAST


Flag carrier Swiss International Air Lines SWIn.S responded to growing competition from no-frills airline easyJet EZJ.L , saying on Thursday it would offer low fare tickets on flights from Geneva.
Swiss International, which replaced bankrupt Swissair as the national carrier in April 2002, said in its website it would offer "Top-class travel at low fares" from January 15. Spokesman Manfred Winkel said flights to London Heathrow, Paris, Barcelona and Nice would cost between 79 and 199 Swiss francs ($142.9). Its current price for Geneva-London is about 275 francs.

"We want to match easyJet in price while offering our standard of service," Winkler said.

EasyJet Switzerland, a joint venture between the British budget airline and Swiss investors, is based in Geneva. For Swiss, it is a second-leg airport next to its international hub in Zurich and a regional node in Basel.

Swiss said cheap rates would not apply to all tickets and would only be applied to Internet bookings.

"The number of seats available for discount prices depends on the bookings for the plane. We want to better use the overcapacity on less busy times of the day or in the week," Winkel said.

Lets hope that there are no saturday night etc rules AND 100 % MILES . If that is the case this would be very nice , I am on EZE 2-4 flights a week to various locations to and from GVA!
Peter

Cheap Club Miles and nice Week-ends in London on the way....

kooks. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

www.swiss.com (http://www.swiss.com) is updated for the EasyPrices:

Just as easy, but even better...

Swiss Easy Savers offer bargain fares for return travel between Geneva and Barcelona, London-Heathrow, Paris and Nice. Fares range from CHF 79 to 199 (airport fees extra). Similarly favourable fares and conditions are also available for flights to Geneva from the same four cities.

These super fares come combined with convenient conditions. For travel during the week a minimum stay of two nights is required. Weekend travel requires a Saturday-to-Sunday overnight stay. Flights must be booked 14 to 28 days before departure. Maximum stay is 10 days. Offer valid as long as seats are available.

This new special offer is available from January 15


link: http://www.swiss.com/index/tg-to-so-easy-savers.htm


kooks. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Do these lyrics from Eminem's song "Cleaning out my closet" sound familiar:

"..Have you every been hated or discriminated against, I have..."

Once again I feel left out as a "Basler" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by huegli:
Do these lyrics from Eminem's song "Cleaning out my closet" sound familiar:

"..Have you every been hated or discriminated against, I have..."

Once again I feel left out as a "Basler" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif</font>


I agree with you Huegli,

I live in GVA, so it s good for me.

I think they might also do BSL or ZRH connections flight to GVA for this flights at least they should... (the 70.- CHF ones like Webspecials).

kooks.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kooks:

I agree with you Huegli,

I live in GVA, so it s good for me.

I think they might also do BSL or ZRH connections flight to GVA for this flights at least they should... (the 70.- CHF ones like Webspecials).

kooks.</font>

Don't bet on that, it really is only to compete with Easyjet from GVA. It is a pitty that the AMS route is not included (I would go through Bale or Zuerich just for the extra miles !)

But since there is a 14 day booking in advance rule I will not be able to take advantage of this offer anyway, don't remember ever booking that much in advance for any flight......

Peter


[This message has been edited by padams (edited 01-10-2003).]

In the US there were cases where the big guys would lower their fares, force the smaller low cost players out and then immediately raise their fares again. I hope this will not be the case with LX/Easyjet.

EZ is the biggest operator from the UK to GVA, with BA a close second.

LX has a measly 20%. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif Clearly a long way to go to catch up.

BA has of course had lower fares for some months, and is a more direct competitor, so perhaps LX's action is also directed at the company allegedly preventing them from joining OW http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif.

EZ currently has a promotion, LGW or LTN to GVA for £7.50 each way plus taxes and fees for flights to 9 April. That's around 34 CHF r/t + extras. Come on, LX, where's your real response?

Could this be a DMFUK http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif?

Swiss criticised over low-cost flights, NZZ <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">The decision by Switzerland's national carrier "Swiss" to offer low-cost fares from Geneva has been attacked as proof that the airline lacks a coherent business strategy.
René Lüchinger, a leading aviation expert, warned that the move would alienate premium customers and confuse the company's shareholders.

Swiss on Friday announced that it would be offering what it calls "Easy Savers" on flights to London Heathrow, Paris, Barcelona and Nice, with prices starting from SFr99.

These are all routes run by Europe's leading "no frills" airline, easyJet.

"In the long run, it's a very dangerous strategy because if you want to be a premium airline, you can't compete with the low-cost carriers," Lüchinger told swissinfo.

"You must decide if you want to be a premium airline with a good service and higher prices or whether you want to be low cost. I think to be both is impossible." &gt;&gt;&gt;</font>

read all http://www.nzz.ch/2003/01/13/english/page-synd1560133.html

Stelios et. al. must be having fun about the whole thing. It turns back against Swiss ;-)

The offers are not competition to easyjet anyway as long as there is any overnight rule and 28 (!) days advance booking.

PA

[This message has been edited by padams (edited 01-13-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by padams:
Stelios et. al. must be having fun about the whole thing. It turns back against Swiss ;-)

The offers are not competition to easyjet anyway as long as there is any overnight rule and 28 (!) days advance booking.

PA

[This message has been edited by padams (edited 01-13-2003).]</font>

Easyjet may not require 28 days advance booking but their fares automatically increase as the flight date approaches so LX may have taken the view that, in practice, there is an advance booking requirement (although not 28 days) for cheap Easyjet fares.

Stephen

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by sjharte:
Easyjet may not require 28 days advance booking but their fares automatically increase as the flight date approaches so LX may have taken the view that, in practice, there is an advance booking requirement (although not 28 days) for cheap Easyjet fares.

Stephen</font>

True. But I fly at least once to week GVA-London (Luton or Gatwick) same day return and book few days in advance overall costs usually about 200 CHF. now try that on LX ...

I suspect that many of the UK skiers that are always on teh winter flights book VERY early and pay a lot less than the LX offer.

I think that LX will not get the (many) business travellers on board the average easyjet flight to London (same day return and advance booking) and the LX offer is simply still too expensive for the opportinistic UK skier (and GVA students)that books at midnight when the new EZE prices are on the net for the season.

Peter
(PS Paris trips tend to be a lot cheaper even)

I guess it’s true that there are quite a lot of people around that will always try to get the cheapest fares.
But never forget those that want some kind of service and don't like to be on the train for hours before arriving at their destination (e.g. London). There are quite a large number of people that are ready to pay a bit more for some increased comfort. And those are not only people on expense accounts and the super rich.
I think there is a way for swiss to get those people if they are not too far away from the 'easy' prices.
And regarding the NZZ article: It is quite easy to become a so called expert on those things. Especially in Switzerland, if you are ready to talk, people will expect you to be an expert. Sadly it is not always so. A lot of brands have some lower priced products that don't interfere with the higher priced ones. Instead they profit from the higher priced products.
If they market those fares properly they will not alienate their core customers, instead they will increase revenue on those routes and take away those people from Easy that appreciate that extra service. Not everybody is a student and a budget tourist, especially not in Switzerland.

Someone on Airlinemeals.net (January 12th) clearly shows how LX service in Y on short European hops is excellent while service on long haul flights is crummy.

However I understand that Y service on European hops may be downgraded.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Bretteee:
However I understand that Y service on European hops may be downgraded.</font>

The only thing they said is that they wanted to differentiate the C and Y class products on their small (&lt;100 seats) planes. Now that can mean "improve C" or "worsen Y".



------------------
airOli (http://www.olimade.com/airoli), the Swiss Air Line. ;)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by airoli:
The only thing they said is that they wanted to differentiate the C and Y class products on their small (&lt;100 seats) planes. Now that can mean "improve C" or "worsen Y".
</font>

Right, now guess what will happen ; my guess:
-slightly nicer tableware in C
-A "KLM" type sandwich (10 cm baguette with small piece of cheese) or worse the KLM "Rondo" (any one who ever was on a short KLM flight and is not Dutch will remember the experience forever) as the ONLY thing you will get in Y served with eother glass of water or juice.

Peter
(and compared to eseajet we will all pay a few 100 CHF more for that "meal" :-)

Well at least for now, service on short Y hops is very good. Here's what I got on the Avro ZRH-MXP last week:
Refreshing towel 1 (large) baguette, cheese or tuna Second baguette (passed on that one) Beverage, hot or cold Chocolates and / or candy

I think they won't change anything about the sandwiches, since those are the same that are served on longer flights or as a 2nd meal on transatlantic flights and are therefore probably made in high numbers. But I could imagine that they cut the corners a bit around the sandwich.

------------------
airOli (http://www.olimade.com/airoli), the Swiss Air Line. ;)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by airoli:
Well at least for now, service on short Y hops is very good. Here's what I got on the Avro ZRH-MXP last week:
Refreshing towel 1 (large) baguette, cheese or tuna Second baguette (passed on that one) Beverage, hot or cold Chocolates and / or candy

I think they won't change anything about the sandwiches, since those are the same that are served on longer flights or as a 2nd meal on transatlantic flights and are therefore probably made in high numbers. But I could imagine that they cut the corners a bit around the sandwich.

</font>

I agree with Oli on this.

But again it depends on the time on the day you take the flight. Sometimes you have cold and sometimes hot meals.
I prefer the cold ones.

kooks.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kooks:
I agree with Oli on this.

But again it depends on the time on the day you take the flight. Sometimes you have cold and sometimes hot meals.
I prefer the cold ones.

kooks.</font>

I also agree that the service in Y/C , in particular for Y, is really good in LX at the moment. As I said it sure beats KLM on similar flights.
Peter

The LHR-GVA price is GBP 49 r/t plus taxes and fees.

LX told my wife by e-mail but not me (yet), and I thought I was the STC member. I must have upset somebody ...

But are these eligible for mileage collection?

Just to clarify: The service described above was in a separate Y cabin, not the Y/C combined service.

And kooks, I think that on ZRH-MXP flights one never gets a hot meal, regardless of the time of the day.

------------------
airOli (http://www.olimade.com/airoli), the Swiss Air Line. ;)

The changes about meal service are now in place. Only sandwiches on Saabs and Embraers in Y to Germany, no more c-class cold plates (which were always excellent to good). C-class still gets the same cold plate. I don't know about longer european flights....

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by airoli:
Just to clarify: The service described above was in a separate Y cabin, not the Y/C combined service.

And kooks, I think that on ZRH-MXP flights one never gets a hot meal, regardless of the time of the day.

</font>

Yes I agree. What I wanted to say was depending the time of flight during the day within Europe, in general, you can get hot or cold meals. And therefor good sandwiches or usually bad hot food...

kooks.

Good point Airoli. I did not think of that. However on airlinemeals.net (January 12th) it seems they really spoil Y class on short hops which is not the case on long haul flights.

Interesting. It seems that the snack on 45 minute flights is a lot better than on 8 hour + flights.

The EasySavers prices are online now.

links out GVA:

http://www.swiss.com/tg-to-so-ch-easy-savers-1?
http://www.swiss.com/tg-to-so-ch-easy-savers-2?

Not a lot of choices for the flights only very early in the morning for LHR for example.

They are already sold out for the end of the month or early Feb...

kooks.

[This message has been edited by kooks (edited 01-15-2003).]

aaaaaaaaaaaaargh stupid Swiss:

" Note to members of Swiss TravelClub: On flights with Swiss Easy Savers you can earn Club Miles as usual. Bonus Miles are not awarded, however, for e-booking, e-ticket and e-check-in with these flights. "

Silly and stingy !

PA

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by padams:
aaaaaaaaaaaaargh stupid Swiss:

" Note to members of Swiss TravelClub: On flights with Swiss Easy Savers you can earn Club Miles as usual. Bonus Miles are not awarded, however, for e-booking, e-ticket and e-check-in with these flights. "

Silly and stingy !

PA</font>

Stupid indeed...

They want to compit with EasyJet. So since EasyJet have no FF program they are doing the same...

What a shame...

kooks. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

Good grief, what a nightmare booking GVA-LHR RT on this offer. They certainly don't want to make it easy to actually get the flights at this price. I thought using the internet was supposed to make things easier. The only airline booking site that really works is that of easyJet.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Concerto:
Good grief, what a nightmare booking GVA-LHR RT on this offer. They certainly don't want to make it easy to actually get the flights at this price. I thought using the internet was supposed to make things easier. The only airline booking site that really works is that of easyJet.</font>

I agree. EasySaver from Swiss should be a lot more flexible to really compit with EasyJet or BA or even AirFrance...on route such as LHR, Paris or Barcelona.

kooks.

I have often had trouble using the LX web site. Easyjet's web site is a breeze and quick.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Bretteee:
I have often had trouble using the LX web site. Easyjet's web site is a breeze and quick. </font>

I totally agree, but Swiss has a lot more flights and routes then EasyJet so maybe more time to find your requested flights...

kooks.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kooks:
... Swiss has a lot more flights and routes then EasyJet so maybe more time to find your requested flights...

kooks.</font>

Well, that's debatable. Worldwide, yes, you may be right. After all, EZ don't fly to EZE http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif. But within Europe, easyJet has far more routes and excellent frequencies. Just check www.easyjet.com (http://www.easyjet.com) and compare.

Also, they have over 40% of the GVA-UK market - LX 20% - and a far more efficient website.

And if you're comparing EZ flights ex GVA, the 'low' LX prices are only offered on EZ routes, it seems.

Incidentally, for those who don't know, here are the correct 2 and 3 letter designators for the easyJet group:

U2 = easyJet
BH = easyJet Switzerland (formerly TEA Basel AG)
EZS = easyJet Switzerland
EZY = easyJet

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Concerto:
Incidentally, for those who don't know, here are the correct 2 and 3 letter designators for the easyJet group:

U2 = easyJet
BH = easyJet Switzerland (formerly TEA Basel AG)
EZS = easyJet Switzerland
EZY = easyJet</font>

Thanks...

kooks.

I should probably add (wandering a bit off the topic here) that the only place I have seen the U2 code used is at Nice airport, on boarding passes and departure boards. The BH code is never used: it did belong to TEA Basel AG, which became easyJet Switzerland, so I presume it still exists. All flights operated in the 900 range are "operated by easyJet Switzerland SA", according to their timetable. End of digression.

I see that the cheap Easy Saver flights with SWISS to LHR that I managed to secure 2 days ago have well and truly disappeared, there being no availability for 3 days either side of my dates. So, they're selling well. To be quite honest, you will have to be extremely quick to snap them up. EasyJet is the same: there are very few of those cheap seats, and you have to grab them jolly quickly, usually a long time in advance. Most of the time, I kid you not, I am getting a better price (or as near) from the full service airlines, plus miles etc.. And how generous will easyJet be in rerouting you from LTN should there be a technical problem or major delay with the flight?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Concerto:
And how generous will easyJet be in rerouting you from LTN should there be a technical problem or major delay with the flight?</font>

1. I have yet to find LX (or BA or ...) offer me a fare of GBP 0.00. I've had several with easyJet and, indeed, my wife is in CH right now on a GBP 0.00 ticket.

2. Easyjet's t+c's including re-routeing, are well known - refund or transfer to a later flight. How about a refund of the fare if your flight is 4 hours late in arriving? That's what you get with EZ. Try that with LX!

In fairness, 4 hour delays are rare, though one family member benefited when her plane was diverted to BHX because of unexpected snow at Easter and she had to contine by bus, arriving 4 hours 5 minutes late http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif.

I didn't know that easyJet(U2) had run any GBP0.00 fares to GVA. I missed out there. Their time-keeping in my experience has been pretty excellent, unlike a lot of the major carriers. However, I still feel a bit safer on a major carrier out of a major airport(LHR), and would caution anyone against using U2 to connect onto a longhaul or limited operation flight with another carrier.