Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners) - Insight into which LH longhaul gets an airbridge in FRA

Just spent 10 mins searching the outside parking position thread where we all lamented the fact that exactly the Aircraft we always tend to arrive on in FRA gets the so called 'outside position' (lovely german english :))

Well, it seems there is a guy at LH in FRA you can blame:

In Frankfurt wird es eng am Gate
Optimal zugewiesene Parkpositionen sind entscheidend für reibungslose Verbindungen am Hub
Keine Frage – jeder Passagier möchte am Flughafen Frankfurt am liebsten an einer Gebäudeposition ein-, aus- oder umsteigen. „Dass immer mal wieder ein Flugzeug auf einer Vorfeldposition steht, lässt sich leider nicht ganz vermeiden“, bedauert Thomas Mohr, Leiter des Hub Control Centers (HCC) in Frankfurt. „Die Infrastruktur in Frankfurt reicht dazu in den Spitzenzeiten einfach nicht aus.“ Der Stationseinsatzleitung, die alle Bodenprozesse an der Station koordiniert und steuert, gelingt es dennoch, die Lufthansa-Flüge so zu positionieren, dass täglich mehr als 30 000 Lufthansa-Passagiere, also mehr als 70 Prozent, über eine Gateposition ein- oder aussteigen können. „Und das trotz aller aktuellen Einschränkungen in Frankfurt durch gesperrte Gates und Parkpositionen“, betont Stationsleiter Andreas Döpper. Damit möglichst viele Lufthansa- Passagiere Gatepositionen nutzen können, versucht die Stationseinsatzleitung die Flugzeuge optimal zu positionieren. „Dabei müssen wir nicht nur Vorgaben wie Länge oder Spannweite berücksichtigen“, erläutert Mohr. Genauso wie bestimmte Gates für den Airbus A340-600 aufgrund seiner Rumpflänge gesperrt seien, werde ein Airbus A320 möglichst nicht an einer Interkont-Position geparkt. Zu berücksichtigen sind bei der Positionierung der Flugzeuge auch kleine Details, etwa ob an einer Parkposition die Vorrichtung für die Unterflurbetankung zum Flugzeugtyp passt oder ob die technische Verfügbarkeit der Flugzeugbrücken gewährleistet ist. Außer der Größe der Flugzeuge kommt es natürlich darauf an, möglichst vielen Fluggästen eine Gateposition zu bieten. „In den Terminalbereichen A, B, C und im C/D-Riegel gibt es insgesamt 49 Gatepositionen von denen wir 37 exklusiv nutzen“, zählt Mohr auf. „Dabei konzentrieren wir uns bei der Positionierung auf die ,Trunk- Routes‘ mit einer großen Ertragswertigkeit und einem hohen Passagieraufkommen.“ So sind im vorderen Bereich des A-Fingers immer die Flüge von Frankfurt nach Hamburg, München und Berlin zu finden. „Darüber hinaus haben wir im Terminal A auf der dritten Ebene den USA-Verkehr zusammengefasst und bieten unseren Kunden bis hin zur einmaligen Sicherheitskontrolle ein homogenes Produkt“, sagt Mohr. Die Idee eines für ein Verkehrsgebiet bevorzugten Terminalbereichs verfolge Lufthansa auch im neuen C/D-Riegel, ergänzt Stationsleiter Döpper. „Mit 17 täglichen Interkontverbindungen, hauptsächlich von und nach Asien, findet ein Viertel der Interkontflüge hier statt.“ Bei der Positionierung der Flüge gewinnen auch Sicherheitsfragen immer mehr an Bedeutung. „Wir versuchen Flüge von und nach Verkehrsgebieten, für die ähnliche Sicherheitsauflagen gelten, am gleichen Ort abzufertigen.“ Ohne Verzögerung Pass- und Sicherheitskontrollen zu passieren, sei das A und O für reibungsloses Umsteigen. Thomas Mohr: „Die immer neue Anpassung von Sicherheitsvorschriften kann sich je nach Verkehrsgebiet durchaus nachteilig auf die Verbindungsqualität auswirken.“ Bei bis zu 10 000 Transit-Passagieren pro Verkehrsknoten für eine optimale Verbindungsqualität zu sorgen, sei also auch eine Frage der Positionierung. „Für Verbindungsqualität und Pünktlichkeit nutzen wir wirklich jede Möglichkeit, diese Werte auch durch die Positionierung der Flüge zu beeinflussen“, versichert Döpper. Dabei könne es manchmal besser sein, einen Flug bei einer geplanten Gateposition zu lassen und ihn, auch wenn die Gebäudeposition bei Ankunft noch belegt ist, nicht kurzfristig auf eine Außenposition zu verlegen. „Wir haben immer die Folge- und Anschlussflüge im Blick, denn außer dem Gast müssen wir auch Gepäck und Fracht berücksichtigen.“ Mehr als 100 Positionsänderungen gibt es jeden Tag und weder Döpper noch Mohr können sie im Alltagsbetrieb ausschließen. „Für einen stabilen Betrieb sind schnelle Informationen gefragt, damit alle Beteiligten auf demselben Stand sind und es nicht zu Verzögerungen kommt, etwa weil Treppe und Bus oder Fluggastbrücke noch nicht bereit sind.“ Trotz der vier neuen Gatepositionen für die Interkontflüge im C/DRiegel fehlen durch den Aus- und Umbau im Bereich B jeweils drei zentrale Gatepositionen. Über mehr Gatepositionen werden sich Döpper und Mohr wohl erst freuen können, wenn der Umbau im Terminalbereich B und der Neubau des A0-Fingers fertig gestellt sind. Mit dem A0-Finger kommen noch einmal sieben Interkont-Gatepositionen hinzu.


source: Lufthanseat

Wow, so this means that we are all flying on those routes which don't make LH any money so we get the parking position at the other end of the airport as a reward for us not being profitable.

So really, it is all our fault and we can't blame LH. :rolleyes:

Na, this just means that all the UA flights don't make any money.

Do you guys really end up out there THAT often? Every once in a while happens at each airport I guess, also in MUC to be honest (Europe and domestic flights)

Na, this just means that all the UA flights don't make any money.

Do you guys really end up out there THAT often? Every once in a while happens at each airport I guess, also in MUC to be honest (Europe and domestic flights)

Watch where some of the really low yield routes (the medium haul intercontinental routes that LH operates with ABA, say) go .. chances are higher that it'll end up at a parking stand.

Do you guys really end up out there THAT often? Every once in a while happens at each airport I guess, also in MUC to be honest (Europe and domestic flights)

Yes, it happens very often. Just a few days ago the 747 from SFO I was flying with ended up at an outside position. I wonder why they are bothering modifying the terminal for the A380 at all... could just have them all parked outside, someone is going to end up there anyway. Fraport has for sure already ordered movable stairs with two levels :mad:

For short flights, it happens quite frequently too and is equally annoying. Nearly all flights to or from London and all A300s flying European routes park outside. Regional flights park outside too. I am flying between FRA-MRS quite often (operated by Eurowings), and it is quite funny how this flight always gets a gate at MRS, but parks near Neu-Isenburg when in FRA.

When a (Lufthansa) European flight arrives at a gate, an announcement usually comes that due to a gate position, you can only use the forward exit, as if gate positions were something exotic. Cannot recall such announcements at any other airport :D

With the planned airport expansion, this will probably even get worse. If the Greens were smart enough to demand that for any airport expansion, enough gates must be constructed to accomodate all flights, I might even vote for them once :D

Maybe I am lucky. The only regular outside parking positions I had in FRA was back in time when LH still flew to CGN :cool:

Other than that, there was one TATL to JFK on an A333 but that's it ^

Another reason could be that I try to avoid FRA as good as possible, so I can't really say that I end up going there too often anyway.

Maybe I am lucky. The only regular outside parking positions I had in FRA was back in time when LH still flew to CGN :cool:

Other than that, there was one TATL to JFK on an A333 but that's it ^

Another reason could be that I try to avoid FRA as good as possible, so I can't really say that I end up going there too often anyway.

To me it also happens regularly. When I was still doing my DFW-FRA runs, 50% of the time I ended up somewhere in front of the cargo center. However on my flights from SIN I now am more lucky. But these flights must be highly profitable......

More interesting is that I can't remember any airport outside Germany (except Koh Samui and India) where I had an tarmac position with a (non regional) jet.

Gruss, S

More interesting is that I can't remember any airport outside Germany (except Koh Samui and India) where I had an tarmac position with a (non regional) jet.

For widebodies this happens all the time in LAX and IAD. And for narrowbodies this can happen all over Europe.

And in INN we don't even have a jetbridge, so all planes will be be boarded from the tarmac :)

More interesting is that I can't remember any airport outside Germany (except Koh Samui and India) where I had an tarmac position with a (non regional) jet.

ZRH, once in a while. :td:

... and NO, ZRH is NOT Germany. ;)

And in INN we don't even have a jetbridge, so all planes will be be boarded from the tarmac :)

And also SZG don´t have a jetbridge !! :)

More interesting is that I can't remember any airport outside Germany (except Koh Samui and India) where I had an tarmac position with a (non regional) jet.

Gruss, S


JNB comes to mind... Lovely bus experience after arriving on an LH 744. Hopefully will be/is a thing of the past with the new terminal...

JNB comes to mind... Lovely bus experience after arriving on an LH 744. Hopefully will be/is a thing of the past with the new terminal...

Now that I think about it I had the same in DOH... Took me 20 minutes by bus to get to the Premium Terminal...... But here in AP it is otehrwise VERY rare.......

Cheers, S

DXB is also bussed quite often. Another major airport undergoing expansion. And yes, FRA-SIN is one of LH's cash cows.

Well, aren't all IAD departures kind of on a remote stand? I don't see the difference in using a bus in FRA or those people mover in IAD!

More interesting is that I can't remember any airport outside Germany (except Koh Samui and India) where I had an tarmac position with a (non regional) jet.


. . . ever tried CDG or LHR - lots of buses for AF and BA longhaul flights. Unlike JFK, where I have never been on a bus, maybe they do not have room for remote stands? Come to think of it, it seems that LH planes are always at a gate in LAX and SFO.

JNB comes to mind... Lovely bus experience after arriving on an LH 744. Hopefully will be/is a thing of the past with the new terminal...

deleted...

JNBHEL

Wow, never had that one! Can't recall one single JNB (and they are plenty...) that ever had an apron.

Probably they don't do it any more as there are (always) plenty of HONs on board...:D

JNBHEL

Maybe LH has a word to say in FRA how their flights will be handled but I doubt they always get their wish at other stations.

JNB comes to mind... Lovely bus experience after arriving on an LH 744.

Yep, I remember that fondly.
Also at least twice in LAX (departure only).

Unlike JFK, where I have never been on a bus

Being old, gray and useless, I do remember JFK in August 1989, a TWA flight from FRA. They had these huge funny telescope busses that docked directly to the doors of the 747.

Oh, and MUC (Riem) in 1984, a PA 747 to JFK. ;)

I often get remote stand for regional flights, but never for SIN or BKK. If you think LH at FRA is bad, try flying BA at LHR. The very few times get a gate it is invariably a couple of miles away from security/immigration/lounge, and when get a remote stand it can take 30 minutes or more to reach the terminal on the bus.

I appreciate the exercise that FRA gives me, plus the regular airside tours.

The inbound from BRS usually parks around V99 (the one closer to France than Germany), and the onbound to INN usually parks up around... V98. I enjoy a bus ride all the way to Terminal B, then a nice walk upstairs and right back downstairs again, then another bus ride back out the INN flight. It must be the best part of 4-5kms of travel to end up 10m away.

When coming in from LHR, I always end up being bussed to/from the other end of the airfield (past the fuel dump, towards the other runway). In fact, I think the only flight in 2008 that I haven't been bussed to/from was a FRA-TXL flight.

Are gates B30-33 reserved just for UK flights? Are all UK flights bussed in and out?

Are gates B30-33 reserved just for UK flights?

Not exclusively, there are also flights to Switzerland

Are all UK flights bussed in and out?

Can't say for all, but I think the majority are certainly. It's always a bus service on Monday and Friday afternoons to/from Heathrow or Manchester

I'm also a keen bus passenger to FRA ;). This is due to my usual shorthaul non-schengen arrivals (mostly from ZRH). AFAIK there are no shorthaul non-schengen gate positions, even if the plane gets one the pax are disembarked by stairs and bussed to the terminal. I hope this improves - at least slightly - after Switzerland joins Schengen 01 November 2008.

In FRA this is, at least, understandable, there's a lack of gate positions. If you arrive to DUS on an intercontinental flight, however, they park the plane at non-schengen gate, then bus you to the central bus entrance - from where you have to pass immigration to get into Germany (as there is no direct stair to the non-schengen gates upstairs), pass security control, pass immigration again (to leave Germany again), to be back to the non-schengen gates from where the ZRH flight departs (if it hasn't left by then). You easily need half an hour to make it to the gate next door ... :confused:

I often get remote stand for regional flights, but never for SIN or BKK. If you think LH at FRA is bad, try flying BA at LHR. The very few times get a gate it is invariably a couple of miles away from security/immigration/lounge, and when get a remote stand it can take 30 minutes or more to reach the terminal on the bus.

Never had a remote stand ever at LHR. But 6-7 times at FRA with about half of them on wide body AC.

Never had a remote stand ever at LHR. But 6-7 times at FRA with about half of them on wide body AC.

Lucky you. There's nothing like a/c taxiing right past the terminal when you have 30 minutes until your next flight with the feeling of helplessness. Even worse, when the first bus fills up with WT+ pax (dang stupid BA layout) and have to wait for the second bus.

Are gates B30-33 reserved just for UK flights? Are all UK flights bussed in and out?
Buses for MAN flights in the afternoon leave from B50s in the dungeon.

I have also seen several inbound/outbound flights to India get a remote gate. Not the 747's, but the Airbus.

I would assume LH makes good money on their India flights, no ?

I have also seen several inbound/outbound flights to India get a remote gate. Not the 747's, but the Airbus.

I would assume LH makes good money on their India flights, no ?

Ah I dont know about that. They sell most of their tix ex India heavily discounted and rely on running fully packed planes (which kind of explains why Indian routes were among the last to get upgraded J seats on 744s, several months after more premium destinations got upgraded)

Ah I dont know about that. They sell most of their tix ex India heavily discounted and rely on running fully packed planes (which kind of explains why Indian routes were among the last to get upgraded J seats on 744s, several months after more premium destinations got upgraded)

Yes, but it not easy to get a business class seat also.

I
Are gates B30-33 reserved just for UK flights? Are all UK flights bussed in and out?

B30-33 and B50-59 are the Gates with extra security for flights to non-schengen EU (and Switzerland) flights. For the past years since the EU regulations about this came into effect all flights to the UK were bussed from there, but recently a few ones came from the non-schengen A gates which have a good enough security regime. For UK arrivals they quite often use finger Gates from the A or B piers depending on where the plane goes to next.

I'm also a keen bus passenger to FRA ;). This is due to my usual shorthaul non-schengen arrivals (mostly from ZRH). AFAIK there are no shorthaul non-schengen gate positions, even if the plane gets one the pax are disembarked by stairs and bussed to the terminal. I hope this improves - at least slightly - after Switzerland joins Schengen 01 November 2008.

All fingers could be used by narrowbodies :) and in fact I've seen quite a lot of A32X and 737s at the B piers, especially at night.

All fingers could be used by narrowbodies :) and in fact I've seen quite a lot of A32X and 737s at the B piers, especially at night.

Those are the mid-haul night flights to places like IST, ESB, BEY, AMM, TUN, CMN, etc. At that hour of the night, they are not taking space away from widebodies anymore. But during the daytime, a 747/340/330 will trump a short-haul aircraft for a gate anytime (space permitting, I think there are a few gates which are too small to accomodate long-haul aircraft).

I appreciate the exercise that FRA gives me, plus the regular airside tours.

The inbound from BRS usually parks around V99 (the one closer to France than Germany), and the onbound to INN usually parks up around... V98.

I guess you haven't been to INN for a while. The VO flights moved from the eastern V positions to the F positions near the northern Cargo area last year, and a few weeks ago to the V16x/V17x positions.

Thanks for posting!
ATH-FRA last week, same thing! Made me miss my train(no checked baggage).
Or was that because I was on those cheapo Z fares?
Will report on sunday, when arriving on a 747!

Ah I dont know about that. They sell most of their tix ex India heavily discounted and rely on running fully packed planes (which kind of explains why Indian routes were among the last to get upgraded J seats on 744s, several months after more premium destinations got upgraded)How is it that I end up paying so much for my ex-India LH flights??

I think that they are making *some* decent money, except that they are selling *heavily* discounted J class seats to Reliance, I understand...we can't touch those negotiated rates!

Edited to Add: (*And* we get shunted out on the tarmac ex-MAA/BOM at FRA in 744's!)

Yes, but it not easy to get a business class seat also.My previous post explains why...plus India is "shining" (economy doing well - local parlance!) and therefore many corporations are getting decent discounts on LH...all in J/C/Z...

I guess you haven't been to INN for a while. The VO flights moved from the eastern V positions to the F positions near the northern Cargo area last year, and a few weeks ago to the V16x/V17x positions.

Not only the INN flights, also the SZG flights !!

Not only the INN flights, also the SZG flights !!

Yeah, as I said the VO flights. Only INN and SZG left now that LNZ is closed. Or maybe VIE gets a VO flight once in a while, but I haven't seen any other VO flight in FRA except for the now two dashes.