Frontier Airlines EarlyReturns (Pre-Alignment) - Frontier changing into your standard airline

First, I'll start by saying I really like Frontier, and fly them almost exclusively. I've been summit/ascent with them for several years.

Flew from LA on May 1st, and noticed some additional changes, that show me they are having to morph themselves into a standard airline...Nothing major, but thought i would share.

#1, They have raised the price of their DirectTV service by $1 (well, 99 cents actually), so it's now $5.99 if you aren't ascent or summit

#2, No more free snacks. They are now selling 'gourmet' snack options on longer flights...for $5 each. On my most recent flight, it was some trail mix, some gourmet potato chips, and a couple of other items. no food at all (even pretzels) was offered free of charge

#3, Customer service has seriously started declining. This is a subjective thing, but folks just seem generally less happy to be working for frontier than in the past, and it shows. Maybe just been my luck, but the past few flights CS has taken a noticable decline. Maybe has to do with the fear associated with bankruptcy filing.

Anyway, just thought I'd share. F9 will still be my preferred airline, it's just sad to see some of the changes they've had to make in order to survive the current airline economy.

Are you sure its $5? Everything I've read has said the price is $3, which for what they are offering is a pretty reasonable price.

Unfortunately, since people won't pay a premium to fly on Frontier, they are having to charge for more things. It's a vicious cycle, I know, people don't want to pay for better service, because they feel that they don't get it, but when they don't pay a premium, the airline has to raise prices or offer less service to remain in business.

Since price is all *most* passengers care about, then everything is aimed at offering a lower price while still trying to make money at $120 barrel oil.

Also, DirecTV now owns the equipment and is making those changes. Shorter haul flights to Albuquerque, Anchorage, Boise, Billings, Cabo San Lucas, Cancún, Cozumel, Dallas/Fort Worth, El Paso, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Mazatlán, Minneapolis, Oklahoma City, Omaha, Phoenix, Puerto Vallarta, Salt Lake City, San José (Costa Rica), Tucson and Tulsa are now $3.99.

However, they still haven't joined the throng and still don't charge for a second bag. I hope they never do.

Are you sure its $5? Everything I've read has said the price is $3, which for what they are offering is a pretty reasonable price.


I think that's a good idea with the TV prices matching the flight lengths. Didn't it always used to be free to Mexico and Costa Rica for all passengers? Still, I think the prices are fair and the service seems to be improving. I had a really rough landing in DEN last week and never lost a signal.

The snacks are $3, definitely on par with what you can get at the airport for the same price, if not better. It's not like the .5oz of pretzels, snack mix, or the one biscoff cookie can really makethat much of a dent in the appetite.

As for service, I did have a 19 minute estimated hold time on the phone last week, which is less than OK.

TV Service was free to Mexico and points south because the signal is lost near the US border. Therefore under the new rationale these are "short-haul" flights because that's the duration they get the signal for.

IMHO I don't really care about the charging for snack mix, there's only so many bags of doritos/sun chips that I can eat before I start refusing the snack anyway, so at least this way there's the option for some variety. I do wish that they would extend it a bit further and offer a few other more-expensive options similar to the UA snackboxes... I would gladly pay $5 or more if they did some nice non-perishable stuff like cheese/crackers/sausage/etc a la' the United MiniMeal.

These moves reek of desperation. I fly Frontier occasionally and have no problems with the carrier but it's nothing special or anything that I'd seek out. Their web site is poor and it's very difficult to use the Early Returns miles except on AirTran (but I live in a city this is thinly served by AirTran).

I stinks for the investors (they've already lost their money since the stock is now "pink sheeted") and it's gonna stink for both the employees and the Denver area economy but this company is on a trajectory to insolvency unless the price of oil reverses quickly. They don't have the oversees routes to subsidize the domestic flight schedule and leisure travel demand is elastic in nature. It is truly a vicious cycle.

Capacity need to be taken out of the domestic air system and losing Frontier will help alleviate this imbalance. Hopefully I'm wrong here but looking at thing objectively, the outlook is bleak for this carrier.

These moves reek of desperation. I fly Frontier occasionally and have no problems with the carrier but it's nothing special or anything that I'd seek out. Their web site is poor and it's very difficult to use the Early Returns miles except on AirTran (but I live in a city this is thinly served by AirTran).

I stinks for the investors (they've already lost their money since the stock is now "pink sheeted") and it's gonna stink for both the employees and the Denver area economy but this company is on a trajectory to insolvency unless the price of oil reverses quickly. They don't have the oversees routes to subsidize the domestic flight schedule and leisure travel demand is elastic in nature. It is truly a vicious cycle.

Capacity need to be taken out of the domestic air system and losing Frontier will help alleviate this imbalance. Hopefully I'm wrong here but looking at thing objectively, the outlook is bleak for this carrier.

Then what would you call what the rest of the industry is doing? They charge for the above and for curb checking your bags, for checking a second bag, for speaking with an agent, for buying a ticket at a ticket counter, etc, etc, etc.

Don't mention loosing half a billion, that's billion with a B, in one quarter or even more, if that doesn't cause desperation, I don't know what will. The entire industry is about to go up the creek and its going to be a fun one to watch.

I would hope you are wrong, because we will all have a great time flying on the new and unimproved UA once a huge chunk of their competition in Denver just goes away. Of course, WN will fill the void, but it seems most people have a thing about assigned seats and nice FF perks, so that'll just be "good enough" as well.

Don't worry, that nasty overcapacity issue will go away once we have two or three megacarriers to choose from, we'll also be paying a ton more for your flying. But hey, that's the way it has to be so the airlines can simply cover their costs, right? The sad part is, that its the airlines that actually try to care and do what is right that will go under.

My theory is that F9 may shrink operations but will be able withstand the pressure. Remember that UA still has relatively huge overhead costs and can't be "seen" shrinking due to pride. They could collapse or crash under their own weight like Eastern Airlines did in the '80s. Unlike F9, who still has money, they really can't survive a BK under the new rules and would be forced to liquidate. That would give F9 an out to raise fares as many pax, such as myself, will never fly WN even if they gave me tickets anywhere in the country or world for that matter. CO, F9 and WN would win in a UA liquidation. That may have been CO's plan all along when they left the bargaining table with UA. According to the WSJ, Tilton's face was visibly worried when they got the final no from CO.

Haven't flown since the charge for snacks. Do Summit members have to pay for the snacks?

That would give F9 an out to raise fares as many pax, such as myself, will never fly WN even if they gave me tickets anywhere in the country or world for that matter.



AMEN from this summit and premier exec!!

Haven't flown since the charge for snacks. Do Summit members have to pay for the snacks?

I had to pay. I didn't ask but there was no indication that they were free to Summit members.

Even though I fly mostly UA, I used to like F9. Until I had a truly horrible experience in January. They changed the route to ZIH from daily to weekly and issued a press release about it. However CS officially did not know about it, so they would not rebook me. Their handling of the whole thing was appalling. One CS manager pretty much called me a liar and was refusing to even go check F9's website. At the end, as an apology they offered me a $100 voucher - like I am going to fly them again!

Now as far as I am concerned F9 is only good to keep UA honest in DEN. As far as flying, they go with WN: I'd rather drive, thank you.

I purchased the sweet mix. At $3 for 5 ounces, it is slightly more than what you pay for trail mix at DIA ($2.50 incl. tax v. $3 for 5-6 oz.) but it was good. Majority of it was peanuts (~40%) but there were a good number of other nuts as well. The pecans weren't overroasted like they are in some other mixes (burnt pecans are only good on pecan pie). I probably should have gotten something lighter in calories though.

I think it's a better idea than UA's snack boxes. The trail mixes will have a longer life and aren't overpriced compared with what you'll find at the airport. Cereal isn't a bad idea either for the same reasons.

I had to pay. I didn't ask but there was no indication that they were free to Summit members.

Snacks are unfortunately not free for anyone. TV will still be comped for the proper FF levels.

The idea behind the snack program is to make all snacks and drinks cost neutral.

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8310/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102)

I had to pay. I didn't ask but there was no indication that they were free to Summit members.

Snacks are unfortunately not free for anyone. TV will still be comped for the proper FF levels.

The idea behind the snack program is to make all snacks and drinks cost neutral.

So does that mean that the mini bottles will start selling for $2 and the beers for less? :)

Not much to add that hasn't already been said, but I'm game for my own commentary.

We've been spoiled for decades. We get transportation, food, drink, luggage allotment, etc all wrapped into one fare. Now that airlines are allocating your air fare to solely cover transportation, we argue about being "taken to the cleaners."

Though it's a perk to get free food/drink, it's not a necessity. Grab some goodies from your kitchen before you leave the house if it's that important to you. For us efficient travelers, we prefer a lower fare and then to be nickel and dimed for everything else. It's my own fault if I get hungry/thirsty onboard, can't put everything into one checked bag, etc. Charge all you want for those items.

I'll bet the second bag charge comes out by end of year. Seems like most airlines are doing it.

My theory is that F9 may shrink operations but will be able withstand the pressure. Remember that UA still has relatively huge overhead costs and can't be "seen" shrinking due to pride. They could collapse or crash under their own weight like Eastern Airlines did in the '80s. Unlike F9, who still has money, they really can't survive a BK under the new rules and would be forced to liquidate. That would give F9 an out to raise fares as many pax, such as myself, will never fly WN even if they gave me tickets anywhere in the country or world for that matter. CO, F9 and WN would win in a UA liquidation. That may have been CO's plan all along when they left the bargaining table with UA. According to the WSJ, Tilton's face was visibly worried when they got the final no from CO.

Why would CO win in a UA liquidation? I would think that AA would win because they would overnight become the premier airline at ORD.

FormerAA: I agree that ORD would become the sole province of AA but ORD is dominant precisely because of the UA-AA battle. Midway is always lurking in the background. The problem is that once they win, they don't do anything with it. Look at STL. Granted the local travel is poor as STL bleeds jobs like an amputee without a tourniquet but it is a great location for a midwest hub and better than ORD. It's better than ORD as there is less traffic in and out and nearly the same flight distance to points on the East Coast and West Coast. What does AA do with it? Very little. You can't fly AA direct to STL but rather have to go through ORD or DFW but you can fly F9 or UA direct. The reason CO wins as they would likely pay the price to absorb UA operations in DEN. CO also would pay the price for SFO and more capacity at OAK where UA probably makes a large chunk of money. AA is great for East to CA travel but travel in the Western US outside of CA is more North-South than East-West. Acquiring DEN ops from a bankrupt UA would give CO better matchups. They are also accustomed to running a north-south direction.

FormerAA: I was speaking more about than DEN but I agree that ORD would become the sole province of AA but ORD is dominant precisely because of the UA-AA battle. Midway is always lurking in the background. The problem is that once they win, they don't do anything with it. Look at STL. Granted the local travel is poor as STL bleeds jobs like an amputee without a tourniquet but it is a great location for a midwest hub and better than ORD. It's better than ORD as there is less traffic in and out and nearly the same flight distance to points on the East Coast and West Coast. What does AA do with it? Very little. You can't fly AA direct to STL but rather have to go through ORD or DFW but you can fly F9 or UA direct. The reason CO wins as they would likely pay the price to absorb UA operations in DEN. CO also would pay the price for SFO and more capacity at OAK where UA probably makes a large chunk of money. AA is great for East to CA travel but travel in the Western US outside of CA is more North-South than East-West. Acquiring DEN ops from a bankrupt UA would give CO better matchups. They are also accustomed to running a north-south direction.

Effective June 10, 2008, each ticketed passenger may check one piece of baggage free of charge. A second bag may be checked for a fee of $25.00. All other excess items will be charged an excess baggage fee of $50 per item. Excess baggage fees for international travel differ. Please refer to our international travel section for the excess bag fee schedule for international flights.

Summit Level:
+ One extra free checked bag (three bags total*)

*Effective June 10 2008, two bags total.

UA still allows 1P/1K elites still get 3 checked bags...

UA still allows 1P/1K elites still get 3 checked bags...

Would be nice if it was:

No Status = 1 bag
Ascent = 2 bags
Summit = 3 bags

That could not seriously cost them money but would give perks to Ascent plus an extra carrot to hit Summit.

Well, alot more than just checked baggage has changed. Wow:

"The following fees and policy changes are effective for tickets purchased on or after
June 10, 2008:

Second checked bag - changing from $0 to $25
Oversized bags - changing from $50 to $75
Overweight bags - changing from $50 to $75
Paper Ticket Fee - changing from $25 to $35
Checked Pet Fee for 400 series kennels or higher - changing from $100 to $200
Unaccompanied Minor Fee - changing from $40 to $50 per segment
Antlers - changing from $75 to $100
Scuba equipment - changing from $0 to $100 flat fee
Segway Transporters, Surfboards, Wakeboards, Wave Skis, Kite Boards - changing from $50 to cumulative excess, overweight and oversized fees as applicable
Hang Gliding Equipment, Kayak/Canoe, Poles (Vaulting Poles), Windsurfing equipment - changing to cumulative excess, overweight and oversized fees as applicable
Pet In Cabin Fee - policy eliminated; no additional bookings will be taken
Infant seat purchase 50% discount - discount eliminated
Day before/day after standby - policy eliminated"


Some of F9's policies were very 'forward-thinking' and customer-centric, such as the day-before/day-after fee. All these changes, coupled with my latest flight I took with them on Thursday really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I remember when I worked for them a year ago, you could feel a sense of pride working for the company because we had so many ways of differentiating ourselves from the big, bad 500-lbs carriers out there. Well, no more, and I really feel for all the employees having to go through such a rapid, dramatic change. It really is not the carrier it once was. :(

Pet In Cabin Fee - policy eliminated; no additional bookings will be taken

Well that didn't last long. I think they have been allowed for about six months.


Day before/day after standby - policy eliminated"

NOOOOO!!!!! I've used that twice in the last year and the fee waived for Summits was a perk I was looking forward to. :(

Day before/day after standby - policy eliminated"


Just have to add, this policy out of the above was the most Business friendly. It fit well with Frontier's latest branding as the airline to use for business travel.

NOOOOO!!!!! I've used that twice in the last year and the fee waived for Summits was a perk I was looking forward to. :(

Not to worry if you are a Summit member...

Effective June 10, 2008, passengers are no longer able to standby or standby confirm for the day before or after on their return segments or one way ticket. This updated policy excludes Summit members.

However...

The policy for Summit members applies to the Summit member only. Traveling companions in the same PNR or other PNR may stand by following the standard standby policy.

Any idea why they've changed the TV policies? In addition to the price structure we talked about before, they've also cut out the preview during boarding. I was on two flights last week and they don't turn it on until after the safety presentation. This was a good way to pass the time. Now we get 30 minutes of pitches for Griswold's Cafe.

Any idea why they've changed the TV policies? In addition to the price structure we talked about before, they've also cut out the preview during boarding. I was on two flights last week and they don't turn it on until after the safety presentation. This was a good way to pass the time. Now we get 30 minutes of pitches for Griswold's Cafe.

Earlier this year, Frontier decided that the LiveTV system was not meeting the projected revenue estimates and signed the equipment back to LiveTV. LiveTV basically owns and operates the systems now and is setting them up to be like the systems on JetBlue. They have added channels and are restructuring the fee schedule in an attempt to get more people to choose to buy the service.

On B6 this boarding screen has some advertising, which is where I imagine the Frontier systems is going.

As a side note, Frontier is now paying for every comp'ed TV service instead of just not taking in any income for it. To me that demonstrates how much they are trying to protect you Ascents and Summits, lets hope they continue to do so.

Just another reference point, I flew back from LGA on Friday with Sean Menke (CEO) and Ed Christie (VP Finance) sitting behind me. Both were friendly and optimistic (not that they would ever express any pessimism in public). I asked Mr. Christie about their fuel hedges becoming void with the bankrupcy, and he said that prior to filing, they were 25% hedged at $90/bbl. I am sure that they are hurting with the high fuel prices, but the filing doesn't seem to have made things much worse, as they were already facing close to market price.

I also suggested to Mr. Menke that they consider another FF level beyond "Summit" to capture the folks like me who split their travel between F9 and United in order to earn status in both programs. A 50,000 mile "Pinnacle" status level with additional perks such as access to the CO Lounge, companion-pass, special 15k award inventory, etc... would cause me to switch all my flying to F9 instead of the 60/40 F9/UA mix that I do currently.

By the way, despite sitting in row 2, Mr. Menke waited until the last passangers got off in order to retreive his bag, which he had placed in the back of the 'bus. I doubt that you would find that behavior typical among other airline's CEO's.

Well, I guess this means the days of the captain comping the Directv due to a late departure are probably at an end. It's disappointing losing 20% of the TV time but probably not a deal breaker. If I didn't have a rollaboard with me I'd wait until later in the boarding process to hop on.

That's interesting that you flew with the CEO and CFO. Which one of them took the middle seat? :)

That's interesting that you flew with the CEO and CFO. Which one of them took the middle seat? :)

CEO was in 2C, Finance guy in 2D. I flew back with the same finance guy on the day that the bankrupcy was declared, he was talking to the crew members and reassuring them that nothing was going to change, at least in the immediate future. I am sure that morale is taking a hit from the pay-cuts and general level of worry, but I've got to say that I really have not seen any difference in the crews I've had of late - they've continued to be friendly and helpful.

Well, I guess this means the days of the captain comping the Directv due to a late departure are probably at an end.

Actually, no. TV will still be comped in certain situations.

Looks like Frontier has added the ability to change/reticket reservations through the "My Reservations" link on their website. I tried a "dummy" change with an existing reservation, and it didn't show an $100 change fee, so it looks like it's got the Summit recognition working as well.

No matter how nice their agents are every time I call, I still prefer being able to do this myself and save the phone time. This is one way that becoming more like a "standard" airline is a good thing. Now if they'd only get online seat-changes prior to OLCI worked out...

Looks like Frontier has added the ability to change/reticket reservations through the "My Reservations" link on their website. I tried a "dummy" change with an existing reservation, and it didn't show an $100 change fee, so it looks like it's got the Summit recognition working as well.

No matter how nice their agents are every time I call, I still prefer being able to do this myself and save the phone time. This is one way that becoming more like a "standard" airline is a good thing. Now if they'd only get online seat-changes prior to OLCI worked out...

Nice, that beats waiting on the phone.

#2, No more free snacks. They are now selling 'gourmet' snack options on longer flights...for $5 each.

Free snack on Frontier is why I chose them to take me to DCA about 3 years ago. Chicken wrap of good size, and it was descent too! Tough times call for tough decisions.

Yeah I remember the chicken/turkey/cheese wraps, the hot breakfast sandwitches, and other goodies on the DCA flights... first started taking them flying back and forth to school in Colorado.

Now to be really nostalgic, does anyone remember the "Frontier Flier" bus? Picked you up at the Harvest House in Boulder (where they had a ticketing agent for boarding passes and checking luggage), and dropped you off in the front of DIA? Even better on the return, the bus parked right next to the plane, you took the elevator down, then it drive straight across the tarmac, out the gate, and on to Boulder.... those were the days! I believe that service ended after 9/11 through it may have gone away before.