Hilton HHonors - HGI Groveling for a "9" or "10"?

I stayed the past two nights at the HGI in Rancho Mirage. (Nice property, great rate, excellent breakfast, definitely would return). We had an "evolution" room (at least I think that is what it was called) with a great almost "Tempupedic" mattress, great pillows and a flat screen.

When we checked in, there was a letter from the manager in our key folio almost pleading with us to contact guest services immediately if there is a problem and, that if we receive a survey in the mail or e-mail, to please be sure to rate them a "9" or a "10". "In the Hilton rating system, anything less than a "9" is the same as a zero. So, if there is anything that would have you rate us at anything less than a "9" to please give them a chance to fix it."

Then, when we got to the room, there was a message waiting for us on the hotel voice mail (flashing red light on the phone) welcoming us and calling our attention to the "letter included with your key folio and reminding us to please rate them a "9" or "10"."

In the morning, there was another letter from the manager in front of bill (so you had to see it first) reminding us that if we receive a survey to please rate them a "9 or 10" or if we asked to have something fixed and it was not repaired to our satisfaction to cause us to rate them less than a "9" to please contact him.

Frankly, I would rate them less than a "9" for having to answer the voice mail and to read the two letters. Plus, what a waste of paper to have each guest receive TWO letters.

As a Diamond HHonors member, I have stayed at many Hilton family properties and cannot remember ever receiving two letters and a phone call.

Anyone else find this annoying? And, do you think it artificially skews the survey?

I dont see a problem with it. They are being honest about the 9 or 10 issue with the survey and are being pro-active in asking to take care of anything that you find falls below that level. I wish more hotels tried to make sure they hit a 9 or 10 level. I do agree with the wast of paper though....

I had such a message in another Hilton (about their flawed rating system) and it didn't bother me. Receiving a voice mail about it and a second letter would irk me too. It's one thing the hotels tries to be nice for their guest but asking for a good mark in their survey, especially several times, is rude. You don't ask for praises.

It's a common practice. I find it annoying as well. I see it at a number of Hilton properties. I also get it worse when I take my car to the dealer for an oil change. Letters, calls, e-mails all wanting to make sure our visit was a 9 or 10.

How much rating analysis can you do about an oil change. I'm sure that management bonuses are somehow tied to these surveys.

They almost certainly use an NPS system where 1-6 count as a -1, 7-8 count as 0, and 9-10 count as 1. I think they are just wanting to make sure you give them a 9 or a 10, although they are a bit pushy about it there.

There was a "10" campaign in full, overt force at the HGI Times Square a couple of weeks ago, Staff wearing big "10" buttons and a personal VM from the guest relations manager asking directly for "10" ratings. Not as bad as the car dealer who claims you're taking food off his table if you give a "9" or less... but close.

Funny thing is -- no survey as yet.

It does seem to me like hotels like this are trying to game the system. A lot of people are sheep that, if asked to rate a hotel a 9 or 10 will do so, just to be nice, even if they were not all that happy with the stay. Just like people will give positive e-bay feedback when asked, even if such feedback is not fully warranted.

Not a problem at all...as long as the hotel also goes beyond asking for the 10 rating and actually makes the effort and delivers the service that would merit a 10.

BTW, BMW Service departments are also not shy about asking for a 10. ;-)

There's a card on the credenza as the FS Hilton where I most frequently stay, and their staff has the obnoxious "10" buttons as well.

To be honest, I've been there long enough and know them well enough that a) they've got it down pat when it comes to my room and infrequent requests; and b) if there were anything that deserved a fair-to-poor rating, it would have to be really bad before I complained. I'd rather not participate in the survey rather than aid them in gaming it, pleasant though they may be most of the time.

They almost certainly use an NPS system where 1-6 count as a -1, 7-8 count as 0, and 9-10 count as 1. I think they are just wanting to make sure you give them a 9 or a 10, although they are a bit pushy about it there.

If their rating system amount to that, Hilton should write it on the survey, no point in allowing the guest a range of 10 possible levels of satisfaction if they are all secretly lumped after that. If there are 3 choice, (unhappy, ok, happy) I will probably check "happy" for some items. If there are 10 choices, "0" would be for a "yours is a very bad hotel" treatment and "10" for a really outstanding service (with 7 or 8 being used mostly to denote satisfaction with the service). If there are 100 level, they can grovel all they want, they will certainly never get "100". Asking for marks and not using it as is is silly on Hilton's part if that's the case. The other possibility is, simply, that Hilton use the marks as they are commonly understood and the hotel is simply trying to coax you into giving better grade than you would naturally?

The last survey I had was for a hotel of which I was totally satisfied. I gave him a "10" for the lounge. The next one to get "10" will have to beat this one to get the "perfect mark". Do they really expect me to call "if there is anything that would make you give us less than a 10"? "ok, could you please do my laundry free of charge? Because at the other hilton, they did it for the executive floor and I am supposed to rate your executive service also..." I don't think they would take such a call into account, and I don't think I'll take their groveling into account when grading them. :)

BMW does it, Hertz did it last weekend, it's not that uncommon at all. It's irritating to have them highlight the survey code and link on the receipt sometimes (hertz) but I don't mind giving good scores if it's deserved, or bad ones when they are.

Usually they are really busting to get it, which of course I don't mind.

I stayed at a HGI this week - my first HH stay in a year...and this is my first post on the HH forum. (I am Marriott Plat, sorry ;))

At the time, I found it interesting that when I complimented the front desk on the stay, I got a little speech about the 9/10 survey scores. I had 2 rooms booked, and they asked if my traveling partner had an email (to which) the survery could also be sent...repeating the 9/10 score scenario.

Although I cannot say I found it offensive, I found it odd. Now that I am reading this forum, I find it slightly offensive :D.

Perhaps it would be better if hotels would ASK "is there any reason you feel you cannot give us a 9 or 10". In that way, they could identify any problems that may have existed during a stay, as well as politely communicating the importance of those scores.

Just a thought from an "outsider" - - - -

It is not just a Hilton thing. Happens at other chains as well. I don't mind if they have a note on the front desk or if they attach something to the bill. I would mind, however, if I would have to listen their voice mails and receive several notes that I would need to rate them 9 or 10.

BTW I have stayed at the Rancho Mirage HGI couple of times. IMHO it is a fairly typical HGI. Nothing bad but I wouldn't rate it great either.

They almost certainly use an NPS system where 1-6 count as a -1, 7-8 count as 0, and 9-10 count as 1. I think they are just wanting to make sure you give them a 9 or a 10, although they are a bit pushy about it there.

NPS doesn't work as effectively if people are told that 9 or 10 is the level which is considered "acceptable" or "good" - if that makes sense. It just causes score inflation from people who would otherwise score 7 or 8 as "perfectly fine, thanks". An NPS score of 9 or 10 is meant to capture people who run around saying that a hotel (or other) is great to all their friends - not to anyone who had a stay where something didn't break.

The Hilton survey people shouldn't really allow that.

On the general point, I'd appreciate a letter from the Manager to recognise status (the Hilton Caledonian in Edinburgh wrote a front of house manager note when I just a Silver), but voicemails and successive communications are not really on.

.............BTW I have stayed at the Rancho Mirage HGI couple of times. IMHO it is a fairly typical HGI. Nothing bad but I wouldn't rate it great either.

Sorry I must disagree you with you. It is a huge very well furnished HGI.......probably one of the most plush I have seen. Additionally twice I had a room overlooking the hotel pool. There was a some function function at the hotel which only was for 9 or 10 20-ish girls. I never saw such a display of such nicely formed girls anywhere in the US. Too bad I could not stay longer or "swim" more. Of course YMMV.

MisterNice

It just causes score inflation

I couldn't agree more. 9 or 10 is not a reasonable score for ordinary-to-good service. Such a score should be reserved for exemplary service. Otherwise, what's the point of rankings?

It drives me crazy when a business implores me to give a certain score on a service survey. They are trying to "game the system" and it's not fair to other hotels (or car dealerships, etc.) that don't nag you half to death.

I ignore them and give the score I feel is honest.

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I do find annoying, but I have not filled out a survey in years. My time is worth $ (or points). Hyatt gives you points to fill out a survey, so I do them. I've had car dealerships actually have you sign the survey and they will fill it out for you (in exchange for an oil change). Very scientific data gathering! ;)

If I have a complaint, I let the hotel know right away. As a Diamond, they take care of any issues quickly. If the service is particularly special, I will send an e-mail to the GM (rare in the recent few years).

I don't know why a hotel thinks that prompt fixing of problems should warrant me thus giving them a 9 or 10. Promptly fixing problems is what a hotel is SUPPOSED to do. It would be the hotel stay that did not have problems that MIGHT get me to give them a 9. It would be the hotel stay that not only had no problems but exceeded my expectations to which I might give a 10, e.g., upgrading me even though as a lowly Silver I have no reason to expect such.

Sorry I must disagree you with you. It is a huge very well furnished HGI.......probably one of the most plush I have seen.

Cannot vouch for the pool or the breakfast but I have stayed there twice. I really couldn't tell a difference between this and Garden Grove/El Segundo/Foothill Ranch HGI's where I have also stayed at.

I encountered the situation once, though it has been some time ago. IIRC, I simply decided not to answer the survey. Some might call this cowardly, but I seldom pick up on conflicts if I can avoid them. ;) No point in exaggerating the quality of a hotel stay but probably no point in hurting the people involved either.


BTW the hotels do get the info who filled the survey, how they rated the hotel and what if any remarks they left. I once received an email from the hotel GM afterwards after I had noted that, although the hotel was nice it would need to get renovations done. This was Hilton Belem.

I agree with the previous posters. The begging for a super score when delivering acceptable service is just dishonest. But these inflated scores may be the secret to the marketing campaigns that state "outstanding" service. I usually ignore the surveys personally. Not worth my time when it was just acceptable.

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The whole point of scores is to keep track of well performing and under performing properties, so when a property is getting an inflated score, it just makes Hilton think that everything is going great when indeed, things are not so rosy, so by giving them undeserved 9 and 10's, we are doing a disservice to ourselves and Hilton too. Of course, this is only undeserved 9 and 10's - if everything is great and service was good, then it may be a 9. All the hotel may be trying to do is off-set some of the poor result surveys that they received since complainers have a greater chance to fill one out. However, this really does not seem to be professional how they are handling it.

Next time just tell the hotel that the thing that needs fixing the most, is their asking for a 9 or 10. Until they stop doing that and bagering you about it, you'll be unable to rate them a 9 or 10.

It would be quite tempting to give them a 7 and comment along the lines of:
- Good service, nothing broken
- For a 9 rooms need to be twice the size, you'd need a jacuzzi in the room and a Michelin starred restaurant
- For a 10 you'd need an African safari on the grounds, the Hotel manager to personally save you from being run over by an elephant and for you to fall in love with and marry one of the waitresses

- For a 10 you'd need .............. and for you to fall in love with and marry one of the waitresses

So THAT's why I am a Marriott Plat! 20 years ago I met Mr. Sophie at a Marriott ....;)

But re the HGI - how hard is this:

_____below my expectations (comments provided)

_____met my expectations (no comments needed)

_____exceeded my expectations (because of ____________)

Marketing: "Our surveys say that XXX guests beleive that we MEET or EXCEED their expectations.............blah blah blah.

OR better yet -

send out random surveys after stays are completed, and the hotel has no opportunity for input as they don't know who will be getting one!

Now.......back to Marriott -

So THAT's why I am a Marriott Plat! 20 years ago I met Mr. Sophie at a Marriott ....;)

But re the HGI - how hard is this:

_____below my expectations (comments provided)

_____met my expectations (no comments needed)

_____exceeded my expectations (because of ____________)

Marketing: "Our surveys say that XXX guests beleive that we MEET or EXCEED their expectations.............blah blah blah.

OR better yet -

send out random surveys after stays are completed, and the hotel has no opportunity for input as they don't know who will be getting one!

Now.......back to Marriott -

I think you are mistaken about the purpose of the survey - any survey that could be used in marketing or advertising has to be conducted by a third party and independent of the beneficiary to have validity or claim. Moreover, I have never seen any such claims from the HGI. Have you? Also what you are implying is that Hilton Corp is trying to rig the results, which if they wanted to, they could just change the numbers in the database. Moreover, since contribution from each property is a drop in the bucket, nobody would care to annoy their guests to give them a higher score.

From what I understand, these are hilton customer satisfaction surveys and I am pretty sure they are used for internal score keeping purposes only. It is a feedback mechanism. Very similar to what United has to keep score of their flights, staff, etc. I don't think there is a mass conspiracy. :rolleyes:

As you have chosen me to quote, my responses would be

I think you are mistaken about the purpose of the survey
I cannot find anything in my post where I mention the purpose of the survey - can you clarify where you found that?

- any survey that could be used in marketing or advertising has to be conducted by a third party and independent of the beneficiary to have validity or claim. Moreover, I have never seen any such claims from the HGI. Have you?
No, nor do I mention that Hilton is claiming such in my post.

Also what you are implying is that Hilton Corp is trying to rig the results,
Again, not sure how you feel I am implying that? If anything, I am offering a suggestion {as to how} they could insure they get responses which would, perhaps, more accurately reflect the true intention of the guest.

Since I don't know the purpose of the survey, have seen no claims from HGI as to what their planned uses are for the survey, it seems ridiculous that I would imply they are planning to rig the results - as I have no clue as to what results they would would consider good, bad or indifferent!

which if they wanted to, they could just change the numbers in the database.

well, umm, yes - but then that would assume that I thought there was some mass conspiracy at hand....not merely responding to other, already existing posts.

Definitely back to Marriott - :rolleyes: X 2

Deep breaths everyone. Okay, now can we play friendly, not be overly sensitive and be constructive?

thanks :-:

Sophiegirl, Oops, I did misread your post - sorry, my bad, I was after a redeye in IAD RCC. :( You are definitely in the right.

Sophiegirl, Oops, I did misread your post - sorry, my bad, I was after a redeye in IAD RCC. :( You are definitely in the right.

Not a problem. My experience is that anything out of IAD makes one, well - you know.

Get some rest.

I think I will frame that "being in the right" part though - it happens so rarely...........

I recently received similar treatment at the HGI in Orlando - I Drive North.

First of all, they suggested that I may receive a survey in the next few weeks. Well, sorry, a survey that comes any more than a few days after my stay is irrelevant. One forgets things so responses drift to the norm.

Second, if you want a 9 or 10, you have to have a culture that insists and reinforces behavior that enhances the customer experience. And that just isn't going to happen at most HGIs because of the mediocre/indifferent service at breakfast (note, a comp. service to Diamonds) and Housekeeping. Because of these two areas, I have never stayed at an HGI that warranted better than a "7" overall.

Quick pandering for survey ratings and try to really understand what contributes to a positive customer experience. Most surveys ask for ratings but ask for little input that would provide a diagnostic course for improvement.