Korean Air Skypass - KE's Elite Membership and F-class Award travel

I'm currently Morning Calm member with 218,598 total accumulated miles. However, I'm thinking about switching to Asiana Club.

The reason being:

It takes too long to get to Morning Calm Premium. (500,000 miles)
Therefore, was very dissatisfied for not getting any real benefits, when I would've been already allowed free additional bag and unlimited lounge access on other airlines' program. (Although I can get access to KE lounge 4 times during two years)
As a Korean college student in US, KE or any Skyteam flights tend to be too expensive.
Rather UA is always on cheaper side, and it's quite popular among students.


The reason why I favor Asiana Club a bit more:

It's easier to get elite membership. (Gold= 40,000 miles, Diamond= 100,000 miles, Platinum= 1,000,000 miles)
FYI, with 25,198 miles accumulated from OZ and Star alliance flights, I need 14,802 miles more for gold. (Only the flight miles are counted)
I also fly between US-KOR at least twice a year, so it shoudn't be too tough to get to Diamond?
Of course as a Star Alliance member, UA will get me a miles.


Do you think I should just keep accumulating Skypass miles, considering the amount of accumulated miles? Or should I actually think about switching? (I'm still going to keep both, not actually withdraw the membership. More like switching the concentrated program)

Also, I'm traveling on F award flight. Costing me 160,000 miles, it will use up all my current "usable" miles (145,598)+some of my family member's. Do you think it's worth it, or should I just stick with Prestige class and save some mile? (Economy is out of option, since they are all full now)

In my opinion, *A is also a better pragram than Skyteam overall.

Asiana gives you *gold for being a diamond, but Korean air does not give you slyteam elite plus till you get to the MC premium.

I think you would like to choose couch and upgrade to business, or get business and upgrade to first. Award tickets do not give you miles, but you can get miles for your purchaced fare class when you upgrade.

I think you would like to choose couch and upgrade to business, or get business and upgrade to first. Award tickets do not give you miles, but you can get miles for your purchaced fare class when you upgrade.

Thanks so much for the reply.

Your idea sounds great, but my parents (I'm still a kid. :P) seem to prefer Award ticket and not spend money on airfare. (Plus I wanted to try First, but I don't have enough $$ to buy C-class ticket. :/)

I was actually wondering if I should just use up my KE miles completely and go on with OZ or leave some KE miles in account for safety(?).

If you were planning a "switch" then I'd use the miles. F class travel is certainly different thana C class, especially on asian carriers. You will enjoy it.

I've found that most of the UA fares earn 100% mileage on OZ's program so it's much easier to become OZ elite. *G program is much better than Skyteam elite status.

If you were going to fly more on UA metal, I'd suggest you signing up for UA mileage plus (once you reach 50K EQM, you become *G and earn double miles on united flights). The only caveat is that your status expires each year and need to requalify. With some creative routings back and forth the US and Korea on United, you should be able to get very close to 50K EQM per year (route via HNL then you earn almost 10K miles each way = that's about 40K EQM per year given that you travel at least twice back and forth the US and Korea).

If you were going to fly more on UA metal, I'd suggest you signing up for UA mileage plus (once you reach 50K EQM, you become *G and earn double miles on united flights). The only caveat is that your status expires each year and need to requalify. With some creative routings back and forth the US and Korea on United, you should be able to get very close to 50K EQM per year (route via HNL then you earn almost 10K miles each way = that's about 40K EQM per year given that you travel at least twice back and forth the US and Korea).

Thanks for the reply.

You actually got me started considering UA Mileage Plus! Their benefits certainly sounds much more attractive and easier to reach *Gold than Asiana Club.

However, I noticed their miles expire for a year of inactivation (i.e. you didn't use or earn any miles). I know OZ's membership level is good for three years and miles are currently expiration-free. As I have to do mandatory military service for two years, I'm trying to decide whether using OZ for "everlasting mileage" (even if it's bit harder to reach *Gold status), or actually apply for MP for more benefits like bonus miles and easier reaching of *Gold status.

Awwww Sungnam..where my old highschool used to be..


SJLEE77, Keep in mind that Asiana Club will probably impose expiration on their miles as they usually follow Korean air's mileage system. I actually did see (or hear) that the expiration will start by this year from Korean newspaper.

As for your Korean air miles, why don't you get a Y ticket and upgrade to C?, keep the current miles you have since your current miles will not expire (miles earned til July will never expire on Korean Air as they will impose this rule in July) Since you travel frequently, I'm sure you can make a good use of those miles on future Korean air flight (to places where OZ does not fly)


I had the same dilemma as while I was in College, and kept both OZ and KE. Although KE flights from US is a bit expensive than OZ the fare difference is usually around $100 at most, if you fly economy a lot, then those AVOD on KE really helps, and that's one of the reason I flew Korean. I credited all my domestic UA flights (and back then even *A Silver members were allowed to fly econ+..awww the good ol' days) and reached my OZ status that way.

As for award ticket to F, although First class will be much better than business, it will make your future economy travel difficult (or even C-class for that matter) :p, and if I were you, I'd use that miles to upgrade from Y to C on future flight as you travel a lot between Korea and US.

Hehe, I think we all are Korean here. :) I am also in need of going into the military service (I just turned 27 - yes, quite late but I was doing my graduate school work) and will end all my travels at the year's end.

What's nice about UA mileage plus is that it's really easy to log a mileage activity. Just call UA around the time your miles are going to expire and book a dummy mileage plus award (just put it on hold) and cancel a day or two later. That pulls the miles from your account (but you are not ticketed) and once you cancel, your miles will go back into the account (no service charge since you never ticketed the booking). This is considered a mileage activity and it will renew your mileage expiration date for another 18 months. ;) Very easy.

I currently have more than 200K miles banked (I am UA 1K for the past four years) so that's how I am going to extend the validity of my mileage with UA (I've already used more than 1 milion miles for award travel :D).

The economics of mileage is complicated and is really dependent on your preference. Others can persuade what the mileage is worth, but its actual worth to you is based on how much you value your mileage yourself. What's important to consider is the following: 1) How much (roughly) did you spend to accumulate x amount of miles, 2) how much is the currently available ticket pricing in ECONOMY (assuming that you generally travel in Y) for your choice of destiation for mileage ticket, 3) Mileage accurability (is tied to #1), and 4) Mileage redemption chart.

Generally, if your mileage program does not give you bonus miles (ex. 100% if you are premier executive, etc.), your banked miles are relatively more valuable than say those earned via bonus (2x bonus miles as an elite in other programs). So, typically you'd like to spend miles on premium class travel where tickets are almost always very expensive (3000+ USD to the US from KOREA in business and 6000+ USD in First). That's why I'd suggest that you redeem for first class travel, if available. Remember, miles do not earn interest so its future value is significantly lower than it's present value. In other words, spend it as soon as you can.

Hope this helps!

If you are looking for fast *G status, consider BD (British Midland) or AC (Air Canada)'s mileage programs.

I believe these programs provide the easiest *G qualifications:

Roughly 30-35K elite qualifying miles per year to qualify for *G status with these two carriers.

Compare it with UA (50K miles - it's really not that difficult if you have constant travel, but with just 2 firm trips per year, you are subject to additional "mileage runs").

Compare it with OZ (initially you need to bank 100K miles, then requalify in three years by banking 40K miles, I think). So, let's assume that it takes you 3 years to get to 100K mile level... you requalify for another 3 after banking 40K miles. That's 7 years of *G status, with about 140K EQM miles. Divide that by 6, it's about 25K miles per year.... BUT your first three years does not give you *G status. So you are better off with AC or BD program.



N.B. Since you don't seem to travel in paid business or first class and you go to a school in the U.S., I think AC's program will be better suited for you.

We all do seem to be Koreans, indeed. haha

Brahms77- Thanks for another mileage program suggestion, but would AC really benefit me? Again, I'll be flying UA a lot (they are usually the cheapest for IND-ICN. I go to Purdue, BTW.) and am pretty much US based. So, I thought having Canadian program was somewhat weird, I guess. lol (I see where you are coming with faster *Gold status, though.)

jamsoh- As mentioned above, it seems that I'll be flying UA more often for the price. I would more than love to stick with KE and perhaps OZ, but they're just too expensive.

Anyways, could you(or anyone, really) explain what you mean by making my future Y-class trip difficult through this F-class award trip?

It's tempting to gain 100% bonus from UA. However, it's harder to get lifetime *G status with UA than Asiana. In addition, *G with UA do not give you the free lounge access in the states. You sometimes might have to fly more just to qualify for *G with UA, but it is easy to maintain your status with Asiana once you get to Diamond. One downside of Asiana is that tickets to ICN is usually more expensive with Asiana.

For KE, it is a good idea to keep the miles for upgrades. You will sometimes have to choose Skyteam over *A, then you can take advantages of your saved mile. Who knows if you will notice that you are not far from lifetime status with KE as well.

We all do seem to be Koreans, indeed. haha

Brahms77- Thanks for another mileage program suggestion, but would AC really benefit me? Again, I'll be flying UA a lot (they are usually the cheapest for IND-ICN. I go to Purdue, BTW.) and am pretty much US based. So, I thought having Canadian program was somewhat weird, I guess. lol (I see where you are coming with faster *Gold status, though.)

jamsoh- As mentioned above, it seems that I'll be flying UA more often for the price. I would more than love to stick with KE and perhaps OZ, but they're just too expensive.

Anyways, could you(or anyone, really) explain what you mean by making my future Y-class trip difficult through this F-class award trip?

You can probably fly to IND from ICN via AC as well. Do check on the flight schedule. It's not that hard to via to the US via Canada. ;) I highly recommend AC option (now that there are two flights to Canada from ICN).

What Jamsoh meant was that the miles you save from not flying in F award ticket (redeem C award), you can use the remaining balance for your future travel or future upgrade.

It's tempting to gain 100% bonus from UA. However, it's harder to get lifetime *G status with UA than Asiana. In addition, *G with UA do not give you the free lounge access in the states. You sometimes might have to fly more just to qualify for *G with UA, but it is easy to maintain your status with Asiana once you get to Diamond. One downside of Asiana is that tickets to ICN is usually more expensive with Asiana.

It takes just about the same to get life-time status with OZ (1 million miles banked for both UA and OZ). The only advantage for OZ for life-time status is that *A flight (not all) do count towards your life-time status qualification where as UA counts only those that were on UA metal.

Remember that Diamond status with OZ used to be lifetime status, but it no longer is. ;)

A little suggestion to throw something else into the mix. Consider Delta's SkyMiles program. You can keep flying KE but just credit your miles to Delta. Silver Medallion status comes at 25,000 qualifying miles. That gets you added to the list for unlimited complimentary domestic upgrades. (Actually getting them is a function of your Medallion status and the fare class your ticket is booked in; Silvers do get upgrades sometimes, and if you're flexible you can pick flights that will improve your chances.) Silver also gets you a 25% redeemable mileage bonus on every SkyTeam flight. Gold comes at 50,000 miles and, crucially, comes with a 100% mileage bonus. That makes mileage-earning go much faster. Platinum (SkyTeam Elite Plus) is at 75,000 MQM's; it also has the 100% mileage bonus and some other benefits, notably lounge access for international travel in Economy.

The best part of Delta's program for you would be using it for travel beyond Korea. Instead of just taking an award trip to Korea, go someplace else like Thailand or Hong Kong or Singapore, whatever, and book a long "stopover" in Korea either going over or coming back. That gets you a free trip to wherever else you decide to go because awards US-Korea are at the same levels as US-Southeast Asia. If you just want a side trip on an award ticket, you can book ICN-Southeast Asia for 25,000 in Economy or just 30,000 in Business-- one of the best deals around and a lot cheaper than SkyPass redemptions for the same routes.

The drawback of SkyMiles for you is that you have to requalify for Medallion status each year. Taking one of your trips home as an award ticket could make that tough. Also, Korean Air imposes blackout dates for US-Korea award tickets booked through Delta. The last major drawback is that KE will not deposit any miles into a partner's program for tickets booked on the Q fare basis (commonly sold by travel agencies, these are the cheap fares that earn 70% mileage in SkyPass).

I think he meant once you tasted F class, you cant go back to Y?
anyways, nice to see a group of koreans in one place. ^^^ I thought I was a rare breed.


We all do seem to be Koreans, indeed. haha

Anyways, could you(or anyone, really) explain what you mean by making my future Y-class trip difficult through this F-class award trip?

One other drawback of Delta SkyMiles for the OP's purposes: First Class award bookings are not available on KE using SkyMiles.

(Only non-Korean in this thread, apparently.)

I think he meant once you tasted F class, you cant go back to Y?
anyways, nice to see a group of koreans in one place. ^^^ I thought I was a rare breed.



Yep..my early days I tried to fly the cheapest Y flight I could flight - (ie NWA from ICN-TYO-DTW-ORD, found out it was just too much..so then I took UA ICN-TYO-ORD..few times on UA and it was too much to switched to KE ICN-ORD or JFK in Y) These days I almost always fly C with upgrade or C class ticket and if I had to stay in Y seat for my 14 hour flight to JFK, I don't think I could take that..haha

I took KE First to LAX couple of months ago and though business is better than economy, when you're on that angled bed, you naturally get reminded of the 180 flat first class seat. :D


By the way, I think if you choose to fly UA alot and get status on UA, the chance of getting op-up is much higher than that of OZ or KE from what I saw on flyertalk. (just my observation - could be wrong but what I know is KE usually never do op-up)

By the way, I think if you choose to fly UA alot and get status on UA, the chance of getting op-up is much higher than that of OZ or KE from what I saw on flyertalk. (just my observation - could be wrong but what I know is KE usually never do op-up)

I am a UA 1K (have been for past four years) and I've had several op-ups (including double upgrades) on UA flights over the past two years or so, albeit, I was on higher fare class (Y,B).

What's good with UA (if you are 1P, op-ups are quite rare because there are so many 1Ks in front of you) is that when you fly 100K miles you get SWUs that can be used to upgrade on cheap(er) fares (W class or higher). I know I am just one data point, but I have not failed SWU upgrade clear (many times on the day of departure). So, I haven't seen the back of the "bus" for a long time on long haul flights.

Fortunately, UA C seats aren't that luxurious so if I had to travel in Y, I wouldn't be so upset or notice a significant difference (yes for the seat but no for the service level :D). Ah, also note, if you are at least a 3P (Premier Associate, a gifted status), you get economy plus access on all of your UA flights... so that could be of an advantage if you are switching to UA MP program.

Nonetheless, the rule of thumb is that if you didn't pay for it, don't expect it (op-ups). Op-ups are rare in all cases. The reason we hear more of these stories is that FT is a community of frequent fliers (sometimes I think they are mostly UA fliers... :D) that flies more than 50-100K miles per year; therefore, you are likely to hear more irregular operations stories and op-ups.

In my own opinion, KE's Freq. Flier schema blows, but in actuality, KE is a far better run airline and offers a far better service as well as flying to far more places than OZ.

(Fyi, second non-korean in the thread)

Thanks so much for all of you guys' reply. It certainly helped a lot, although I'm still choosing which program to follow/keep.

Just FYI, I decided against F-class award trip and instead booked on C-class one. It certainly saves whole lot of miles, especially considering how my current miles will be permanent. I might as well take advantage of award trip/upgrade more than once.

So, I guess it's really either AC, OZ or UA for *A programs. DL could've been good if KE wasn't so picky about credible booking class. (Most of booking classes I take are ineligible for mileage redemption.)

Again, thanks for the advices, and please feel free to continue posting for additional informations.

In my own opinion, KE's Freq. Flier schema blows, but in actuality, KE is a far better run airline and offers a far better service as well as flying to far more places than OZ.

(Fyi, second non-korean in the thread)

I strongly agree, but they're too expensive and Skypass isn't so generous about premium levels.

I'm also considering the partner airlines, not just KE and OZ themselves. Therefore, since UA often offers the cheapest fare for IND-ICN and OZ/UA's programs allow for easier qualification of premium membership/less award ticket mileage needed, I'm now deciding to stick with *A.

Also an additional question: Now that I'm on ATL-ICN-ATL on C, I've been browsing for IND-ATL-IND. Delta was over $400, while AirTran was almost half the DL's; bit over $200. Of course FLT schedule and connection to KE with DL is no problem, but AirTran's FLT schedule is that I get to ATL around 7:30AM, and return is not much of an problem. I know low-cost carriers don't offer baggage connection, so that worries me. Also, do you get access to DL's lounge if you're traveling on C (ICN-ATL-IND wise)?

Also an additional question: Now that I'm on ATL-ICN-ATL on C, I've been browsing for IND-ATL-IND. Delta was over $400, while AirTran was almost half the DL's; bit over $200. Of course FLT schedule and connection to KE with DL is no problem, but AirTran's FLT schedule is that I get to ATL around 7:30AM, and return is not much of an problem. I know low-cost carriers don't offer baggage connection, so that worries me. Also, do you get access to DL's lounge if you're traveling on C (ICN-ATL-IND wise)?

Can you not add the ATL-IND legs to your ICN-ATL ticket to take advantage of through-pricing for ICN-IND? That's often cheaper than two separate tickets, though certainly not always. Don't know if KE has any codeshares that operate ATL-IND. Even so, you should be able to add DL-coded legs on an interline-ticket basis all issued by KE. That's the safest, of course, since if you misconnect on separate tickets, it's your problem, not the airlines'.

Don't know if AirTran will interline bags for you. It won't matter much on arrival to ATL, since you have to claim and re-check your bag anyway after customs. Going to Korea, it might be a hassle to exit security to collect your bag then re-check it. Worst of all, you might have a problem with the timing of KE's check-in desk opening: no more than 4 hours prior to scheduled departure. Don't know if the DL desks would process your check-in: I've never been there too early. ;)

I can almost answer your lounge question, but not definitively. The issue is that I'm DL Platinum, and as SkyTeam Elite Plus the rules may be different for me as compared to ticketed Business Class pax. I have a similar situation coming up next week. Paid Prestige Class tix LAX-ICN-BKK on DL codeshares/KE metal, with separate Economy Class tix for ATL-LAX. (As compared to just going ATL-ICN-BKK, it was MUCH cheaper to buy tix out of LAX, earned more miles, and I have a decent shot at a complimentary upgrade on the domestic leg.) I have verified under SkyTeam rules and DL Platinum rules that having a same-day international ticket gets me at all airports throughout my journey regardless of the class of service I'm departing on. So in my case, I can use the Crown Room at ATL upon departure and at LAX when coming back. I'll just need to show them my same-day international SkyTeam boarding pass and maybe a copy of the rules, if someone needs a refresher (as can be the case).

For the OP, I don't think there is a SkyTeam lounge at IND, so that won't matter. You'll definitely be entitled to use the Crown Room at ATL based on your outbound Prestige Class BP. The only question seems to be using the ATL Crown Room when traveling ICN-ATL-IND. I just don't know if your arriving Boarding Pass will cut it. I have seen reports in the DL forum that showing an arriving TransAtlantic Business Class BP has been enough to get Crown Room access prior to an onward flight like, say ATL-SFO or whatever. I really don't know if you'll need to show a SkyTeam BP for your departing flight (an AirTran BP might make the lounge dragons restive).

I used to do that as well. Buying whatever was cheapest without thinking about royalty or building up status with one airline. But I want to change and refocus on achiving lifetime membership. And to do this, I need to narrow it down to which one I want. Since I travel ALOT between Asia and US and some additional traveling within US, there are three things I am looking for. 1. Annual and lifetime Lounge access 2. Mileage burn rate 3. ticket price.

This is what I pretty much narrowed down to:

KE Highlight:
It requires only 500,000 for lifetime lounge access.
The lowdown:
HIGH mileage burn rate and expensive ticket price between asia/us

OZ Highlight:
Reasonable ticket price between asia - US & reasonable lifetime requirement of 1,000,000 miles from all ALL staralliance flights, not only from oz.
The lowdow:
High mileage burn rate.

UA Highlight:
Low mileage burn rate and bonus miles for their elites.
The Lowdown: Requires 1,000,000 miles ONLY from UA.
You can only fly UA pretty much. This will be hard because their transpac service is absolutely horrendeous. I would not fly them if I had choice in the matter. And I do!

All have pros and cons and it comes down to just picking one I think. Please feel free to add if I am missing anything.

I strongly agree, but they're too expensive and Skypass isn't so generous about premium levels.

I'm also considering the partner airlines, not just KE and OZ themselves. Therefore, since UA often offers the cheapest fare for IND-ICN and OZ/UA's programs allow for easier qualification of premium membership/less award ticket mileage needed, I'm now deciding to stick with *A.

Also an additional question: Now that I'm on ATL-ICN-ATL on C, I've been browsing for IND-ATL-IND. Delta was over $400, while AirTran was almost half the DL's; bit over $200. Of course FLT schedule and connection to KE with DL is no problem, but AirTran's FLT schedule is that I get to ATL around 7:30AM, and return is not much of an problem. I know low-cost carriers don't offer baggage connection, so that worries me. Also, do you get access to DL's lounge if you're traveling on C (ICN-ATL-IND wise)?

Can you not add the ATL-IND legs to your ICN-ATL ticket to take advantage of through-pricing for ICN-IND? That's often cheaper than two separate tickets, though certainly not always. Don't know if KE has any codeshares that operate ATL-IND. Even so, you should be able to add DL-coded legs on an interline-ticket basis all issued by KE. That's the safest, of course, since if you misconnect on separate tickets, it's your problem, not the airlines'.

Don't know if AirTran will interline bags for you. It won't matter much on arrival to ATL, since you have to claim and re-check your bag anyway after customs. Going to Korea, it might be a hassle to exit security to collect your bag then re-check it. Worst of all, you might have a problem with the timing of KE's check-in desk opening: no more than 4 hours prior to scheduled departure. Don't know if the DL desks would process your check-in: I've never been there too early. ;)

Oh, I forgot to mention that it was an award ticket. :P I did try to make it Skyteam award trip and include IND-ATL, but then it was bit pricey and IND-ATL leg was never avaliable everytime I check with KE. (I was told once that the flight operated on that leg wasn't eligible for use as award trip?)

I really wish I could just take DL and not worry about much trouble, but considering I also have to pay tax for ATL-ICN trip, it would make me pay about $500~600 for DL and tax and then probably another $50~100 for the transportation between IND and Purdue. :/

In my own opinion, KE's Freq. Flier schema blows, but in actuality, KE is a far better run airline and offers a far better service as well as flying to far more places than OZ.

(Fyi, second non-korean in the thread)

Actually both OZ and KE FF program is not suited for real frequent fliers like "us"; higher mileage redemption rates, no bonus miles for elites, and higher qualification levels for elites (sans OZ). :D However, I disagree with your statement on KE being "far better" :confused: run and offering "far better" :confused: service as compared to OZ. Again, I am not in favor of OZ here, but making an unbiased statement based on my personal experience with both airlines in numerous flights over the past ten years or so (business, first, and economy). I am sure many here on FT will agree that service level on both of these airlines are on par with one another, not one being "far better".

The issue with OZ having less routes and smaller capacity is that 1) OZ is a relatively younger airline compared to KE, 2) because of 1), KE has significant political and market power over OZ where exemplified in OZ's access into CDG (search articles regarding OZ's new service into CDG - it will reveal how KE has been lobbying against OZ's entry into CDG and few other destinations). Nonetheless because these are the only legacy carriers in Korea whatever one carrier does, the other will most likely mimic the trend (ex. bibim bap service).

Can you not add the ATL-IND legs to your ICN-ATL ticket to take advantage of through-pricing for ICN-IND? That's often cheaper than two separate tickets, though certainly not always. Don't know if KE has any codeshares that operate ATL-IND. Even so, you should be able to add DL-coded legs on an interline-ticket basis all issued by KE. That's the safest, of course, since if you misconnect on separate tickets, it's your problem, not the airlines'.


I think OP is redeeming for KE award, not Skyteam award. Usually KE award levels are lower than Skyteam award (same for OZ vs. *A award). KE award only allows one to fly between KE destinations (KE metal only). So, you cannot add DL segments. This is another "negative" to both OZ and KE's pseudo "FF" program.

I think OP is redeeming for KE award, not Skyteam award. Usually KE award levels are lower than Skyteam award (same for OZ vs. *A award). KE award only allows one to fly between KE destinations (KE metal only). So, you cannot add DL segments. This is another "negative" to both OZ and KE's pseudo "FF" program.

Ah, I see. TG does that too. DL usually doesn't-- I think all basic-level DL flight awards are available across SkyTeam (upgrade awards are much more limited). It's only the SkyChoice and SkyGouger flight awards that have limitations to which metal you can fly.

OK, I finally settled to do this:

It will be IAD-ICN-ATL on 5/5~8/22. I'm also waiting on IAD-ICN on 5/3 and ATL-ICN on 5/4. (IND-IAD/ATL-IND was much cheaper than IND-ATL roundtrip, except on 5/4)

Since I never seem to run out of question, here comes another one:

So far, I've chosen to sit on 17A on all legs, obviously except for the waiting ones. I'm wondering if the window view is good, since it seemed a bit misaligned on. Also, would 18A be better? (They are all upper deck, BTW).

I'll let you know in about a week. I haven't flown in transpac Business on the new configurations yet. But I'm on LAX-ICN a week from today, booked into 17A as it happens. I've got 3 hours at Incheon, so I might try to post from the lounge-- if they have computers available. (On a recent visit: no computers.)

I've now ticketed IAD-ICN-ATL on C!

Now the connection time is the issue. For IND-IAD, UA serves nonstop 4X/day, and I can either arrive at 7:35AM or 11:40AM. Meahwhile, KE starts check-in at 10:15AM and departs at 1:35PM.

For ATL-IND, KE arrives at 10:50AM, and I can depart ATL either at 12:55PM or 2:50PM.

For both segments, I'm highly looking forward to the lounges. (Yeah, I don't do premium traveling so often. :P) Therefore, I wanted to have enough to chill there, but then I'm little afraid of having TOO much connection time, especially at IAD.

So, which connecting flight would satisfy both lounge use and satisfactory connection time?

For IND-IAD, UA serves nonstop 4X/day, and I can either arrive at 7:35AM or 11:40AM. Meahwhile, KE starts check-in at 10:15AM and departs at 1:35PM.

For ATL-IND, KE arrives at 10:50AM, and I can depart ATL either at 12:55PM or 2:50PM.

2 hours is way too risky especially you're having separate tickets. But 7:35AM arriving UA flight will be too early departure from IND, and especially if you're departing from west Lafayette (purdue), will be a nightmare. I would choose the next one, and even if delay happens, which is less than 5%, you can still change your award flight. (Although you have to pay staying in the D.C. two nights.) Then your short or almost impossible lounge experience will be another problem. Maybe earlier one is the better idea. Sorry that I'm not helpful on this.

But on the way coming back, you should choose 4hr layover in ATL, not the 2hr one, no question about it (at least for me). ICN-ATL delays quite frequently, due to various reason. Sorry you won't have lounge access in ATL for that long hours. Hope your KE flight won't delay more than that.

This is kind of un-official stuff, but if you ask about baggage through check-in in ICN airport, even though your tickets are separated, they usually arrange to another flight if KE's one is severely delayed even due to the weather. Well, they did this 3 years ago for my sister, who is also in Purdue now. Her IAD flight was delayed 3 hrs due to sudden snow in ICN airport, they arranged to the next flight without any charge. That ticket was only $80 from orbitz.com, and the only way KE knew she had another flight was the baggage through check-in. And her ICN-IAD was mileage award ticket.

Have a nice trip to Korea.

But on the way coming back, you should choose 4hr layover in ATL, not the 2hr one, no question about it (at least for me). ICN-ATL delays quite frequently, due to various reason. Sorry you won't have lounge access in ATL for that long hours. Hope your KE flight won't delay more than that.

He should have lounge access at ATL for that connection. Under SkyTeam rules, any same-day international C ticket (award or paid) will get lounge access to participating lounges in your travel cities. That holds true even if arriving in C and departing in Y. That said, believe me, the Crown Rooms in Atlanta are nothing to write home about. I wouldn't make a point of having four hours in one of them. But with separate tickets, it's probably the safest way to go. You can always do $25 same-day-confirmed (a/k/a standby) for the earlier flight if you're eager to get back to IND.

Guess I didn't say which one to take. I'd take the longer connections just to be sure I'd make them. It's highly advisable with separate tickets. Since you'll have lounge access, there's no reason not to.

The flight's been finally sorted out! Along with KE flights, I decided to stay on the safe side and have longer connection time. That was possible b/c I realized I could get a access to Skyteam lounge and kill 3 hrs until check-in starts. Of course I decided to follow you guys' advise on timing as well.

That said, does anyone know operation hours of AF in IAD? I know WorldClub opens quite early, and if AF one does open, which one would be better? (This is just me being super-careful, but would they admit me even if I'm under 21? I really don't and can't drink, BTW.)

Thank you guys so much for the advises both on mileage program and flights!

The flight's been finally sorted out! Along with KE flights, I decided to stay on the safe side and have longer connection time. That was possible b/c I realized I could get a access to Skyteam lounge and kill 3 hrs until check-in starts. Of course I decided to follow you guys' advise on timing as well.

That said, does anyone know operation hours of AF in IAD? I know WorldClub opens quite early, and if AF one does open, which one would be better? (This is just me being super-careful, but would they admit me even if I'm under 21? I really don't and can't drink, BTW.)

Thank you guys so much for the advises both on mileage program and flights!



NW WorldClub at IAD would enforce ID check upon entry, so if you're not 21, perhaps no entry. But you can still give a try. Besides, NW staffs working in that lounge are pretty rude. I like their cookies though.

Don't know about the age issue. If you make it clear that you have no interest in alcohol, I would hope you'd be okay. Ridiculous laws and policies.

When I took KE IAD-ICN in 2004, I fully expected to use the AF lounge in Concourse B. But as it happened, KE had contracted with VS to use the Virgin Clubhouse directly across from the gate KE was using. When I hoofed it down to the AF lounge, then being used by NH, they sent me to the Clubhouse. Just a heads-up.

Don't know about the age issue. If you make it clear that you have no interest in alcohol, I would hope you'd be okay. Ridiculous laws and policies.

When I took KE IAD-ICN in 2004, I fully expected to use the AF lounge in Concourse B. But as it happened, KE had contracted with VS to use the Virgin Clubhouse directly across from the gate KE was using. When I hoofed it down to the AF lounge, then being used by NH, they sent me to the Clubhouse. Just a heads-up.

I totally agree with you! It's lame that one doesn't get the previlige just because of age. I really hope they would admit me, since I really don't want to have nothing to do for those 3 hours before checking in.

I strongly agree, but they're too expensive and Skypass isn't so generous about premium levels.

I am just curious about these 2 things since you mentioned them many times.
1) Is KE that expensive than OZ? If so, by how much?
2) KE not being so generous about premium levels has been mentioned but
do you mean KE(30k BIS miles in 2 yrs) vs OZ(25k in 3 yrs) for re-qualification? Or a big gap from MC to MC Premium?

I need to know these things as AA's multimillion miler who is considering moving from AA to KE because,
i) I travel LAX-ICN, LAX-NRT trips about 3-4 times a year each. Currently some on AA and mostly on JL, but either way I am getting tired of connecting at NRT for ICN trip.
ii) US legacy airlines' quality has become more ridiculous than ever, not to mention such dynamic environments of US corporations like PanAm, TWA, NW, and who's next... Anyone should be an idiot to keep million miles with any US carrier these days.

I am glad that I found this thread before I make any actual commitment.

Well KE is not THAT expensive than OZ, if you are talking about LAX-ICN. From my experience, KE is about $50~$100 more than OZ (economy), and $100~200 for business.

for your question about elite status, the 3rd tier for OZ and KE is similar (KE being 30k and OZ being 25k), but their 2nd tier is a lot different (KE -500k vs OZ 100k). Their top tier is same 1million for both OZ and KE.

If you fly a lot between LAX and ICN, you might like OZ better since they have recently upgraded their fleet, and food, service is a lil better than KE. But then again, KE has more destinations and more *new planes going to places like WAS, ATL and Dallas, so it's your pick!

KE is the only airline in the world that has nonstop both LAX-NRT and LAX-ICN, as well as NRT-ICN if you need to visit both destination at times. So it would be a good migration to KE, once KE's flight schedule fits well with you - KE's NRT-LAX-NRT is sooner than other carriers by 1-5 hours. Currently LAX-NRT is old equipment, but will be upgraded in a year or so.

Assuming that skyteam lasts longer, you can accumulate miles onto NW or DL (they are same company now). Actually CO is not a good option because taking KE with CO mileage is expensive than DL/NW. (CO's US-Asia with KE is 70k/120k while DL/NW are 60k/120k.) By the way, KE costs 70k/10.5k (US-Korea) if all itinerary are KE, and 80k/120k if mixed with other skyteam airliners. And at this point, KE mileage redeem requires $200-300 fuel surcharge, while CO/DL/NW do not charge to you even though you take KE. (Is it clear? confusing myself though.)

Well, this kind of things can be changed, but currently US airliners offer better mileage redeem options. Might be a different story if you consider being elite status. Note that KE does not have EQM or bonus miles accural depends on elite status. So it is hard to become higher status than others. Well, taking KE flight may not give you EQM to DL mileage. I'm not sure about this at all - I'm not that frequent flyer, so will take long to have status.

I've found that most of the UA fares earn 100% mileage on OZ's program so it's much easier to become OZ elite.

If you were going to fly more on UA metal, I'd suggest you signing up for UA mileage plus (once you reach 50K EQM, you become *G and earn double miles on united flights). The only caveat is that your status expires each year and need to requalify. With some creative routings back and forth the US and Korea on United, you should be able to get very close to 50K EQM per year (route via HNL then you earn almost 10K miles each way = that's about 40K EQM per year given that you travel at least twice back and forth the US and Korea).

I know routing through SFO has done a nice pump to my EQM's as opposed to routing through NRT, plus the times are better

This thread has been so helpful! I fly between Us-Asia frequently as well and was trying to find the right program for me. I'm glad I found this. :D Anyway, I'm interested in switching to DL/NW's program and was just wondering if a Delta flight operated by Korean Air would earn miles for DL. (If so, is it 100%?) Also, where can I find the blackout dates for redeeming DL miles for KE tickets? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

This is kind of off-topic, but as far as I know the only way to check award seat availability on KE flight is to call them except when you have enough miles to book an award seat. Is it true?

This thread has been so helpful! I fly between Us-Asia frequently as well and was trying to find the right program for me. I'm glad I found this. :D Anyway, I'm interested in switching to DL/NW's program and was just wondering if a Delta flight operated by Korean Air would earn miles for DL. (If so, is it 100%?) Also, where can I find the blackout dates for redeeming DL miles for KE tickets? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Delta-coded flights operated by Korean Air will earn 100% redeemable SkyMiles and 100% MQM's (and 50% more if booked in Y,B,M fare classes). Business Class tix on DL-coded/KE-operated flights will earn 150% SkyMiles and MQM's. The only exception could be a travel-agent-issued ticket in a special fare class, such as a consolidator fare: those sometimes earn 0% mileage. Once you achieve Medallion status, you'll also get bonus miles.

Search in the DL forum on FT for the latest blackout dates for awards on KE. The blackouts differ somewhat between transpac and intra-Asia. The holiday period and sometimes big chunks of the summer can be blacked out.

SJLee, go with StarAlliance! I like Korean Air a lot, but personally, I enjoy Asiana's service more. Of course, I'd switch immediately if Korean opened up pojangmachas on the upper decks of their 747's! :p^

Okay, to all the Koreans writing in this thread, dok-kalbi on me next time you're in Dongbu Ichon-dong! :D

Worldperks website used to show KE award seat availability.
But, not any more. As you said, if you do not have enough miles, you have to call KE reservation desk to check it out.


This is kind of off-topic, but as far as I know the only way to check award seat availability on KE flight is to call them except when you have enough miles to book an award seat. Is it true?

Soon-Dae, Dok-kalbi, Ho-deok, and Soju

a perfect new C meal on KE :D

SJLee, go with StarAlliance! I like Korean Air a lot, but personally, I enjoy Asiana's service more. Of course, I'd switch immediately if Korean opened up pojangmachas on the upper decks of their 747's! :p^

Okay, to all the Koreans writing in this thread, dok-kalbi on me next time you're in Dongbu Ichon-dong! :D

Soon-Dae, Dok-kalbi, Ho-deok, and Soju

a perfect new C meal on KE :D

Wake up and smell the kimchi. Accumulate skyteam miles and fly first class on Singapore Air. It takes 120k for Business and 180K for First on SQ. There is a SFO-ICN nonstop. :)

Wake up and smell the kimchi. Accumulate skyteam miles and fly first class on Singapore Air. It takes 120k for Business and 180K for First on SQ. There is a SFO-ICN nonstop. :)

Skymile for SQ? I think you meant *A...

SQ and DL are mileage program partners.
Thus, you can burn skymiles on SQ flights, and vice versa.

Skymile for SQ? I think you meant *A...

SQ and DL are mileage program partners.
Thus, you can burn skymiles on SQ flights, and vice versa.

There is no additional fuel surcharge when you purchase SQ award with DL miles.

wow, I didn't know that.. thanks for the info.!!

Wake up and smell the kimchi. Accumulate skyteam miles and fly first class on Singapore Air. It takes 120k for Business and 180K for First on SQ. There is a SFO-ICN nonstop. :)I'd be very, very surprised if you can redeem DL miles for the SQ nonstop SFO-ICN, seeing as that route is flown by 777-300ER and even SQ's own Krisflyer members have to redeem 2x miles to get a seat on that aircraft in F or J. There is no availability to other Star partners for those flights in F or J (except for one or two seats that seem to be released in error), so I can't see why it would be available to DL.