JetBlue TrueBlue - gift card travel voucher denied after purchase

I'm embarrassed to say that it looks like I got dupped. Back in February I bought 2 travel vouchers for jet blue on ebay. Everything seemed legit, the seller had great ratings and when I purchased my two tickets on line everything went smoothly. The codes the ebay seller sent me were good and jet blue accepted the transaction and sent the flight confirmations to my email. And then I got the call from Jet Blue yesterday saying that they could no longer accept the travel cards as payment as they had discovered they were stolen.

What!?!

They acknowledged they didn't think I personally stole them but they had discovered they were stolen regardless. So of course now they expect another $400 to cover the now unpaid portion of the tickets. I still can't believe it. I don't see how as the jet blue rep said "they were valid at the time you bought the tickets" but now nearly 30 days later "we know they were stolen" so "they can't let me fly for free" - yeah that was a good one. It's very upsetting because they have left it completely up to me to get back my money. Pay pal refuses to issue a refund because they aren't responsible if what you got wasn't what you expected. Ebay hasn't gotten back to me yet and of course the seller is totally MIA.

Does any one have any suggestions. And save any ridicule - I feel awful enough as it is. I could potentially be out $800 if this isn't resolved. I just don't know what to do or if I'm completely screwed here.

They acknowledged they didn't think I personally stole them but they had discovered they were stolen regardless. So of course now they expect another $400 to cover the now unpaid portion of the tickets. I still can't believe it. I don't see how as the jet blue rep said "they were valid at the time you bought the tickets" but now nearly 30 days later "we know they were stolen" so "they can't let me fly for free" - yeah that was a good one. It's very upsetting because they have left it completely up to me to get back my money. Pay pal refuses to issue a refund because they aren't responsible if what you got wasn't what you expected. Ebay hasn't gotten back to me yet and of course the seller is totally MIA.

Does any one have any suggestions. And save any ridicule - I feel awful enough as it is. I could potentially be out $800 if this isn't resolved. I just don't know what to do or if I'm completely screwed here.

Sounds like a bad situation, but I'm not sure how JetBlue is to blame. My guess is that the seller offered you authentic vouchers, you paid, he got his money. Then sometime between the time your transaction was finalized and you got the call, the seller called up and said his vouchers were stolen. He gets new vouchers (maybe -- the policy is that vouchers are not eligible for replacement if lost or stolen, but I've seen exceptions), and your money.

There's really not much that JetBlue can do. If I were you, I'd write in and explain so that this person won't be able to use their vouchers -- you can't resell them on eBay, or anywhere else. PayPal acts simply as an intermediary for payment, so there's not much they can do. They do have a Buyer Protection Program (http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/UserAgreement/ua/USUA-outside#pbp-policy), but it clearly says that their programs only cover tangible, physical goods -- and airline tickets are outright not covered. Your only resort is to file an eBay report, which it sounds like you've done, and wait to see how they want to handle it. Yeah, it sucks, but that's eBay.

Best of luck!

I would contact the New York Attorney General.

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/contact.html

How long was it between accepting them for payment and calling you? Hours / days / or weeks?

-Dave

It might also be possible that an employee was stealing credit shell codes from canceled customer bookings and was selling them on eBay....in either case, I would try and contact the appropriate consumer agency to help investigate (and eBay).

I would contact the New York Attorney General.

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/contact.html

How long was it between accepting them for payment and calling you? Hours / days / or weeks?

-Dave

I'm somewhat certain that both eBay policy, and jetBlue's own fine print, prohibit the sale of airline vouchers and gift cards. If that is the case...

On the one hand, this would mean that jetBlue theoretically didn't do anything wrong in denying the voucher, whether or not it was actually reported stolen (though, it would be nice to know how and when it was reported stolen, or if JetBlue is simply denying it for not being used by its original owner).

On the other hand, this would mean that the seller most likely knowingly sold you a gift card that was either (a) stolen or (b) clearly prohibited from transfer or sale. In this case, I think you should have some recourse with both (a) eBay for a clear violation of its terms of service and (b) Paypal, for allowing a prohibited transaction to occur. If you used your credit card to transfer the funds to PayPal, you may additionally be able to utilize your credit card's theft or fraud protection clauses to challenge the charge.

Maybe this is wishful thinking, but it seems like a multi-pronged attack wouldn't hurt.

I'm somewhat certain that both eBay policy, and jetBlue's own fine print, prohibit the sale of airline vouchers and gift cards. If that is the case...

On the one hand, this would mean that jetBlue theoretically didn't do anything wrong in denying the voucher, whether or not it was actually reported stolen (though, it would be nice to know how and when it was reported stolen, or if JetBlue is simply denying it for not being used by its original owner).

On the other hand, this would mean that the seller most likely knowingly sold you a gift card that was either (a) stolen or (b) clearly prohibited from transfer or sale. In this case, I think you should have some recourse with both (a) eBay for a clear violation of its terms of service and (b) Paypal, for allowing a prohibited transaction to occur. If you used your credit card to transfer the funds to PayPal, you may additionally be able to utilize your credit card's theft or fraud protection clauses to challenge the charge.

Maybe this is wishful thinking, but it seems like a multi-pronged attack wouldn't hurt.

I am assuming that JB did not tell the OP who stole them. If it was an outside person that is one thing, if it was a JB employee then it's another. We have also not heard back from the OP to my other question as to how long it was between the purchase and the call informing that they were stolen.

-Dave

I'm embarrassed to say that it looks like I got dupped. Back in February I bought 2 travel vouchers for jet blue on ebay. Everything seemed legit, the seller had great ratings and when I purchased my two tickets on line everything went smoothly. The codes the ebay seller sent me were good and jet blue accepted the transaction and sent the flight confirmations to my email. And then I got the call from Jet Blue yesterday saying that they could no longer accept the travel cards as payment as they had discovered they were stolen.

What!?!

They acknowledged they didn't think I personally stole them but they had discovered they were stolen regardless. So of course now they expect another $400 to cover the now unpaid portion of the tickets. I still can't believe it. I don't see how as the jet blue rep said "they were valid at the time you bought the tickets" but now nearly 30 days later "we know they were stolen" so "they can't let me fly for free" - yeah that was a good one. It's very upsetting because they have left it completely up to me to get back my money. Pay pal refuses to issue a refund because they aren't responsible if what you got wasn't what you expected. Ebay hasn't gotten back to me yet and of course the seller is totally MIA.

Does any one have any suggestions. And save any ridicule - I feel awful enough as it is. I could potentially be out $800 if this isn't resolved. I just don't know what to do or if I'm completely screwed here.
Don't feel bad, I got duped by this guy for about $2000 so just know it could be worse. And I am not getting any help from paypal either. If you used your credit card with paypal, you can dispute it with them.

Sorry everyone!! I had no idea any one responded to my original thread. I thought I had it set up to get an email notification and I only saw these replies by doing a google search to see if anybody else had posted about what happened in my case.

To answer your questions:

I purchased two tix online on Feb 19, 2008 and got the call from JB on March 14.

This situation remains unresolved and I have yet to get any help from either PayPal or ebay. I spoke with JB yesterday because they are still trying to collect payment from me to cover the now unpaid portions of my tickets and they said that the FBI is involved because JB gc's were purchased direct from JB with stolen ccs and then sold online on ebay and craigslist. I'm trying to get them to put that in writing so I can provide this to my credit card company with whom I've placed a dispute on the charge.

If I have to hear one more time about how much JB has lost from their cust svc reps on the phone, I will scream. They are so holier than thou and only make me feel worse about the situation. :(

Sorry everyone!! I had no idea any one responded to my original thread. I thought I had it set up to get an email notification and I only saw these replies by doing a google search to see if anybody else had posted about what happened in my case.

To answer your questions:

I purchased two tix online on Feb 19, 2008 and got the call from JB on March 14.

This situation remains unresolved and I have yet to get any help from either PayPal or ebay. I spoke with JB yesterday because they are still trying to collect payment from me to cover the now unpaid portions of my tickets and they said that the FBI is involved because JB gc's were purchased direct from JB with stolen ccs and then sold online on ebay and craigslist. I'm trying to get them to put that in writing so I can provide this to my credit card company with whom I've placed a dispute on the charge.

If I have to hear one more time about how much JB has lost from their cust svc reps on the phone, I will scream. They are so holier than thou and only make me feel worse about the situation. :(

Sorry but over 3 weeks is too long for them to wait to call you on this. What would they have done if you had finished your trip? This is customer service at it's worst. And, although I am not 100% sure here, it might not even be legal what they did. In the retail and online world, if you take a stolen credit card too bad you lost the merchandise. YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO TAKE IT BACK WITHOUT A LAWSUIT. That being said I don't know how it translates into this instance. I would contact a lawyer.

-Dave

In the retail and online world, if you take a stolen credit card too bad you lost the merchandise. YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO TAKE IT BACK WITHOUT A LAWSUIT.

Really?

If you sell something that to a stolen CC, and you have the ability to recover it, why shouldn't you? If a gift cert was stolen, which these were, there is nothing preventing B6 from invalidating them and cancelling any tickets purchased with them. I doubt they'd go after someone for already used tickets, as the product is used at that point, but if the flight hasn't happened I see no reason why it wouldn't cancel. I'm guessing they have something in the T&C allowing them to cancel a ticket or gift cert that is stolen.

It sucks for the OP, but I fail to see why B6 has to eat the costs. The OP should be able to get their CC company to reverse the charges since it was a purchase of stolen goods, and then they'll have to buy different tickets at whatever the going rate is.

Really?

If you sell something that to a stolen CC, and you have the ability to recover it, why shouldn't you? It sucks for the OP, but I fail to see why B6 has to eat the costs. The OP should be able to get their CC company to reverse the charges since it was a purchase of stolen goods, and then they'll have to buy different tickets at whatever the going rate is.

Well... it's moot but legally you really can't. They sold it to the OP, it's his. To take it back, they have to show fraud, saying it was a fraud is just not enough. You would expect the same from any airline that sold you a mistake fare (and ticket it) and then taking it back, they can of course but legally they have to honor it.

Really?
If you sell something that to a stolen CC, and you have the ability to recover it, why shouldn't you?

Because it is against the law in New York. I did not say it was fair I said it was the law. (Or it used to be when I was in retail)

-Dave

From the CoC (http://www.jetblue.com/p/jetblue_coc.pdf) (section 3.D):
Carrier reserves the right to refuse carriage to any person who has acquired a reservation in violation of the applicable law or Carrier's rules and regulations.

If the ticket was purchased with a GC purchased with a stolen CC there is nothing preventing B6 from refusing carriage. Like I said, it sucks for the OP, but I do not believe that B6 is behaving outside the scope of what they are legally allowed to do in this case. The OP didn't break any laws, but the reservation was acquired using a GC that was stolen, so it is in violation of the laws.

Also, in the T&C for gift cards (http://www.jetblue.com/traveldeals/giftcardTOC.html), in addition to noting that they are subject to the CoC, it also states that:
Gift Cards are transferable until deactivated. However, Gift Cards may not be sold, bartered, or otherwise exchanged for money or other consideration.

This is an ugly situation, but I do not believe that JetBlue has behaved inappropriately.

This is nothing like a mistake fare, in that is wsa obtained fraudulently, albeit not necessarily on purpose.