JetBlue TrueBlue - Starting regular NYC to SFO travel...B6 or VX?

I'll be starting a bi-weekly / weekly trip between NYC and SFO. My actual starting point is closest to HPN and closest end point is OAK. I am willing to travel to JFK or SFO for good flight times and non-stop convenience.

I've read some threads in this forum that are a few months old about Virgin America experiences and they seem mostly negative. Has this changed?

Here is what I am looking for as a customer, which airline do you think offers a better product?

1) seats? It looks like B6 wins here on pitch, but not width according to SeatGuru

2) entertainment? I can't sleep on planes (at least in coach), so having a decent tv/movie selection is important. Last time I was on B6, my LCD crapped out about 1hr into the flight.

3) possibility of open seats next to me? I'll sacrifice seat pitch if nobody is next to me. For B6, I'd move out of the higher seat-pitch section for an empty seat next to me.

Miles I really don't care a whole lot about. USAirways has pretty much killed my motivation for miles anymore. I usually bring my own food and drink. Really I'm after comfort and (free) amenities...so which is better? I realize I am asking this in the B6 forum, but VX doesn't have a forum yet. I'd consider the major carriers but I don't see the point. I do have Silver DL and Platinum US status.

Thanks

3) possibility of open seats next to me? I'll sacrifice seat pitch if nobody is next to me. For B6, I'd move out of the higher seat-pitch section for an empty seat next to me.

Thanks

And we have a winner. Until B6 posts seat maps for you too see before you make your reservation, Virgin wins.

If you are going to be a regular transcon traveler - you really shouldn't be considering flying LCCs. At 5K EQM roundtrip you will hit top tier status on either UA or AA after 20 round trips. You said bi-weekly/weekly - at three times per month you'll qualify in less than 7 months. Upgrades on transcons are difficult but certainly not impossible. You will still get to spend a good amount of time in Business Class - which is quite nice on transcon products. If you stick with UA - all their coach seats on their PS product have 34" of pitch. AA's advantage is unlimited upgrades for their top tier whereas UA still requires you to use certificates.

I'm an ex-US flier too. Don't let their idiocy make you forget about the value of miles. The value (even if you redeem them at the double "anytime" type rate) of the miles you'll be earning is huge.

Not to mention - even in Y, you'll earn status after a few trips on UA or AA giving you all the advantages of priority boarding (overhead bin space), priority seating (exit rows, etc.), priority security and priority check-in. And if things go to pot, you'll have standby priority during IRROPs.

To me its a no brainer for your type of travel schedule to use a full-service carrier.

And we have a winner. Until B6 posts seat maps for you too see before you make your reservation, Virgin wins.

At least on B6 you'll know you have at least 34" of pitch, to a maximum of 39". VX cannot compare. The only thing you will not know is if you get stuck in a middle seat, which in most cases, is easily resolved at the airport.

If you are going to be a regular transcon traveler - you really shouldn't be considering flying LCCs. At 5K EQM roundtrip you will hit top tier status on either UA or AA after 20 round trips.

Ah, let me also mention that this gig will only last 12 weeks...I suppose it could last longer, but right now it's really unlikely.

As for the upgrades, I value this much more than miles (sorry for my US mindset).

I could get AA or UA low-tier status in I guess about 5 weeks, but is it really worth it? I'm at silver now with DL but have zero qualifying miles for this year...how likely is it that I could get upgrades? The last time I flew on a weekly basis it was always a war to get upgrades, and I have heard it has only become worse.

I could get AA or UA low-tier status in I guess about 5 weeks, but is it really worth it?

Yes. Read the AA wiki on challenges and you could be midtier with a few flights and get double miles from that point out.
http://www.flyerguide.com/wiki/index.php/Challenge_%28AA%29

B6 also flies JFK-OAK, that might be something to think about. I would go for B6 because coach is more comfortable than on VX (judging by seat pitch alone).

B6 also flies JFK-OAK, that might be something to think about. I would go for B6 because coach is more comfortable than on VX (judging by seat pitch alone).

For the first r/t this is exactly what I did....no delays which I enjoyed, but OAK really does suck in terms of grabbing dinner before a redeye.

While both airlines are great, I would go with B6 because of the greater pitch - which could really come in handy on such a long flight. Further, B6 has flights not only to SFO, but also OAK and SJC - so if your flight is cancelled for some reason, B6 can more easily find you a way to the Bay Area while VX cannot. B6 also has connections to SFO via BOS, SLC, and now AUS in such cases, while VX would have to rely simply on the LAX flights. The new JetBlue terminal opening this September is supposed to be very efficient, especially with its security screening - 20 lanes. Terminal 4, which VX operates out of, has far few less security lanes, and security seems to be much higher because of the level of international traffic.

Or, you could simply try both out, then pick your favorite.

Or, you could just alternate.

Or, you could simply try both out, then pick your favorite.

Or, you could just alternate.

I am heading out to Asia for 3 weeks in early May (first time and really excited). The group I'm going with is departing from SFO together. The no brainer (for me at least) is jetBlue JFK-SFO for the connection. However, I've been wanting to fly Virgin America just for the hell of it. As an aviation enthusiast, adding another airline to my flown list is always a plus. So, I am doing JFK-SFO on B6 and the redeye return on VX. I am sure this is just going to be a one-timer but I'll share my thoughts after!

For the first r/t this is exactly what I did....no delays which I enjoyed, but OAK really does suck in terms of grabbing dinner before a redeye.

It does, big time. They have a great burrito place but it typically closes between 2130 and 2200, right before us red eye guys take the flight out... Always a bummer. Not sure why the vendors don't feel the need to stay open, would boost some revenue for them... Until then, it's the Hudson News trail mix...

That's 360 Burrito (http://www.360gb.com/about.html). They also have a restaurant out in Concord near me.

I would go with AA personally. You'll earn status with the plat challenge in no time to get free upgrades and will rack up quite a large number of bonus miles. Their prices are quite similar to B6 and VX.

I have been flying NYC/BOS to SFO for 3 years now and my searches consistently places AA as one of the lowest priced. B6 used to be the lowest maybe 3 years ago but now they're hardly ever the lowest priced.

B6 is a fantastic product but the loyalty program sucks so you have to go with AA. Sure your status will expire, but you'll only lose only one level per year. So you'll have plat til feb 2010, gold til feb 2011, and silver til feb 2012. There a lot flying to be had in 4 years.

Now, such a long transcon is quite competitive in terms of upgrades, but I bet you'll get upgraded about 50% of the time once you reach plat with the challenge. Also, you'll get a hell of a lot more free travel because of the bonus miles than you would with B6 (which doesn't have bonus points other then the online booking) and VX is price based redemption anyway.

AA hands down my friend! Although DL is also quite good on this route in terms of price. I might recommend them if DL had a status challenge and if their miles weren't so hard to use.

Update:

I booked AA flights after signing up for a Platinum challenge. It was too tough to avoid. My seat selection will suck the first couple weeks, but hopefully within a month, I'll be Plat and will have a better experience.

Hi all. Long time AA/UA flyer here.

Last year we flew Jet Blue SFO-JFK and last week flew VX SFO-JFK (both for the first time). Here are my 30 second first impressions.

Jet Blue flight - We sat in the bulkhead (not sure how we got it - MrKS was in a walking cast and we told them we would need wheelchair assistance). The snack baskets were great - a huge surprise and a wonderful treat. The seats were okay - it felt like there was the same amount of legroom as UA E+, and they were about the same width. Crew was very friendly and my wedding dress even flew in the cockpit. :) I don't remember much about the IFE, which means it was probaby about average in our opinion.

VX flight - Definitely the cleanest, newest feeling plane I've flown in a while. Cool mood lighting was a bit nicer than the typical harsh flourescent. Paid $25 each way for a bulkhead seat - I could barely touch the wall with my feet there was so much legroom. I liked the tray tables coming out of the wall instead of the armrest. Seat width was definitely wider than other airlines. No free snacks, not even a bag of pretzels -- but a wide snack and food choice ranging in price from $1 for a snack bar to $2 for a bag of chips to $12 for a cheese plate. The mozzarella/tomato sandwich was about $9 and it was pretty good. The IFE was top notch - lots of $7 movies plus some free short films from a student film festival. Great music selection, set up like an ipod. Loved the google map, where you could see what you were flying over.

My vote:
Seats (exit row/bulkhead) - VX because of the width
IFE - VX
Snacks/food - Jet Blue
Miles - UA or AA
Crew - very nice on both JB and VX, I've had the gamut on AA and UA
Customer Service/Reservations - VX was great, JB very good, AA is excellent, UA's Indian Call Center gives me heartburn
Gate staff - we don't check luggage very often, overall I guess about the same for all 4. A very nice lady at AA op-upped me a few weeks ago.

You have to choose the airline that is going to give you the most and reward you how you want to be rewarded. For some our TrueBlue program is enough for them, many still want the perks of First Class upgrades, elite status on the carrier as well as destinations around the world. Unfortunatly we don't offer all of that. We offer a consistant product, free IFE, good selection of snacks. Unfortunatly our perks are all onboard and not really outside of the aircraft. Hopefully Mr. Barger will continue to work on that so we can win over some of the business travelers.

Alaska is a carrier that remains independent, yet has partnerships with a bunch of carriers in which you can accrue or redeem miles. Their program is based on miles, though. Seems like Jet Blue could have a similar arrangement with carriers that serve destinations they do not fly to, as the model is already in place.

One thing that works against Jet Blue, if they want to have partners, is that their program is not mileage based. In the case of AA, I can get a free transcon ticket with less than 3 round trips (10,000 miles per RT) because of the 100% mileage bonus (25,000 mile award). With Jet Blue, I'd have to take over 8 round trips (12 points per RT) for the same award (100 points).

Hard to mix miles and points if you want to have partners. Not sure how they work around that.

Unfortunately our perks are all onboard and not really outside of the aircraft. Hopefully Mr. Barger will continue to work on that so we can win over some of the business travelers.

One thing that works against Jet Blue, if they want to have partners, is that their program is not mileage based. In the case of AA, I can get a free transcon ticket with less than 3 round trips... with Jet Blue, I'd have to take over 8 round trips (12 points per RT) for the same award... Well said. I love the B6 inflight product, but the stinginess and narrowness of TrueBlue stop me from buying it more often. My points expire before I can amass 100, and even if I did, I want to spend my frequent-flyer awards on seats to SYD or LHR, not BUF or PWM.

"One thing that works against Jet Blue, if they want to have partners, is that their program is not mileage based. In the case of AA, I can get a free transcon ticket with less than 3 round trips (10,000 miles per RT) because of the 100% mileage bonus (25,000 mile award). With Jet Blue, I'd have to take over 8 round trips (12 points per RT) for the same award (100 points)."

This myth is only true if you don't book online.

If you book online through jetblue.com, you end up getting 12 points ONE WAY, and 24 RT for a transcon.

So , without any bonus needed at all, its going to take 4.16 trips on B6. I agree, if you are flying enough to get the bonus, AA might add up for you, but the disparity is not as large as people think, and you don't have to jump though as many hoops.

Another factor is award availability which is always subject to change, but right now I think B6 has been a lot easier to use. I am sitting on 25K to use on two legacy carriers, because I can hardly find reasonable availability for a transcon award, whereas I've had no problem using my B6 awards. Yes, there are capacity controls, but with enough notice, I have never struggled to get the dates I want (even if I need to be flexible about the time of the flights on those dates.)

Reason enough that having to fly 4.16 trips with no qualification hoops rather than 3 trips with hoops is worth it to me.

(Disclaimer: I am NYC-based which also plays into the calculus.)

This myth is only true if you don't book online.

Thank you for clarifying that.

Wouldn't the Jet Blue program be more attractive, though, if they had some international awards with selected partners? It's great you can get a transcon on points at the last minute, but suppose you want to go to Hawaii or Australia and can book a couple months out?

I use my miles primarily for international travel. I have a 16 flight itinerary coming up around Asia and Australia using AA miles. How is Jet Blue going to get travelers like me to leave legacy carriers when they don't offer a complete range of award travel?

Maybe I'm not in the market they're after.

Thank you for clarifying that.

Wouldn't the Jet Blue program be more attractive, though, if they had some international awards with selected partners? It's great you can get a transcon on points at the last minute, but suppose you want to go to Hawaii or Australia and can book a couple months out?

To each his own. :)

You are definitely not the target market. Its true that the target has been to get more business travelers on board, but it is more than likely B6 really means "business travelers in the New York City area." For a flyer like me, B6 is rich in nonstops to desirable destinations, including vacation spots in Florida and the Carribean.

B6 isn't failing to do anything because you stick with AA. It can't be everything to everyone. A good example of that type of mentality is US, which seems to be both alienating its loyal customers, as well as its leisure customers by being, well, too many things.

I personally don't think B6 can be sucessful in converting people until its network is larger. The one exception is New York City, where B6 , even despite the Feb. '07 fiasco, is well received, and would genuinely be missed if it went away.

By the way, I just got back from Hawaii. Went last year , too. In both cases:
1. Couldnt use my legacy miles for the dates I wanted/needed to go.
2. Ended up using a B6 award (both times) to get me to a west coast city with an excellent cheap fare to Hawaii. So I saved money, and ended up earning another 6K (each trip) on a legacy carrier anyway.

So I have had two wonderful Hawaiian vacations, and B6 played a big part of both!