Starwood Preferred Guest - Thoughts from a lame duck Platinum

(Warning: very long!)

At the end of today, I will be losing my platinum status after two years at SPG's highest elite level.

Before I made the milestone, I spent a few years as a gold. My typical stay patterns had always been around 15-18 stays and 30-35 nights per year. Platinum status was that elusive gold ring that remained just out of my grasp.

But near the end of summer '05, I realized that 2006's travel could set up nicely for a run at platinum. Sure, I would have to do quite a bit of hotel hopping on my typical three-night trips, but that was a small price to pay for a taste of the forbidden fruit.

Around the same time, the Starwood gods smiled down on me as I was given a double stay/night promo. Despite not even having requalified for gold at that moment, my travel was particularly back heavy. Without too much additional effort, I was being handed platinum status a year early. Woo hoo! This was not going to faze my plan for the following year at all though. Now I was going to get platinum for two years, and I was going to renew my status with style.

For years I would read on FT that gold was basically worthless, that the real Xanadu was at platinum. I actually liked what SPG offered me as gold. In addition to the other bennies, I almost always received a room upgrade, mostly modest but sometimes great. The apex was in the summer of 2004 on a jaunt through Italy with two SPG redemptions. At the Danieli, I received accommodations in the original Dandolo building with a view overlooking the lagoon; at the Westin Excelsior, Florence, I received a huge room that had to be a junior suite. If I was treated this well as a gold, I couldn't wait to see what platinum had in store for me.

But now, more than two years after my first platinum stay, I'm left feeling my drop in status is not a big loss to me. Perhaps my expectations were too high going in, but the rewards did not really justify the normal effort required to make SPG's highest level, at least that's my opinion for my personal situation.

In both years as a top level elite, I received a suite upgrade only a third of the time. Now I'm a realist (or an apologist - take your pick) and I realize that occupancy levels industrywide have never been higher. That means that more high level rooms (i.e. standard suites) are likely to be sold and there are more platinums fighting to get the upgrade to the few suites that are left. And that's not to mention the hotels that may not always upgrade when they should. Let's just say the upgrades often don't feel automatic, like the program boasts. But the point is when you have to unnecessarily pack up and move hotels, there are expectations that you'll get something for it. All too often that something would be nothing more than a room on a higher floor.

I was also looking forward to experiencing lounge access, where I could enjoy a relaxing evening cocktail or snack or a quick morning bite. I was surprised at how few properties had lounges and the few hotels I do frequent have closed them down in the last two years, like the WDW Dolphin and Westin St. Louis.

So of the platinum privileges that have importance to me, I'm left with gym access and 500 amenity points. For me, I found I was much less likely to want to use the gym if I had to spend so much time moving from hotel to hotel. Finally, with the way I value Starpoints, that leaves me with a $12.50 incentive to move hotels per night. Sure it adds up, but after awhile that didn't seem worth it to me for each instance.

I got little use out of the other benefits. While it's nice to know I had guaranteed room availability in sold-out situations, I couldn't fathom many reasons where I'd be willing to pay rack rate at most places. The platinum concierges were always very helpful and courteous every time I needed to talk to someone, but I never used them for anything non-SPG related. Maybe I missed the boat. Too late now.

Now the road warrior with top-tier status in a baker's dozen programs probably can't relate to any of this. Really, if my travel situation was different - if my typical travel consisted of 25 stays and/or 50 nights per year, I think I would likely be content with the program. In other words, my view is that if I were traveling enough to obtain platinum status every year anyways, the perks are such that they would keep me loyal to SPG; but those perks are not so attractive that I am willing to go the extra effort for an additional 7+ stays or 15+ nights in order to get them, at least on a consistent basis.

There's obviously a lot more that goes into a loyalty program than elite-level perks. So when SPG announced their massive devaluation at the end of 2006, I began to look around. But Marriott was a no-go; my ability to reach any elite level superior to SPG gold would be extremely difficult and their ability to redeem points is more problematic. No incentive to switch to Hyatt either. Their requirements for top elite level are about the same as SPG, although since they have fewer lodging options, they are a bit tougher. And again, capacity controls on awards. Priority Club means Holiday Inn. I'll pass.

That left Hilton, which was the one program that seemed to offer a viable alternative. To reach an elite level superior to SPG gold, my stay pattern would not have to change. And the benefits useful to me would be plentiful. Here I have access to room upgrades and executive lounges, and, if not available, I'd at least get free breakfast. I'd be able to use the gym without switching hotels every night. All-in-all, the perks were on par as SPG platinum for me. The biggest drawback was capacity controlled awards, but that has since been lifted too.

So I started 2007 with an HHonors Amex. With a backloaded travel year that featured a couple of stops without viable SPG alternatives, that gave me time to get HHonors gold by spending $20K. By mid-year, I'd have an opportunity to judge the program for myself.

I have since really only had five HHonors stays, not enough to get a complete assessment, but I have felt the benefits were delivered very well. My status was always acknowledged, my room seemed superior than standard accomodations and breakfast was always provided. And the way the benefits were delievered often gave me the impression they valued me as a customer more than the domestic Sheraton and Westins I had been frequenting the last year and a half. Three of the stays were at Garden Inns and Homewood Suites, with two at Hiltons.

One Hilton stay was especially noteworthy, at least in terms of solidifying my current opinion of my two loyalty programs. I was excited about this particular stay, which was at the Hilton Seelbach in Louisville. The Seelbach is lauded as one of the finest hotels in the city and among the best domestic HHonors properties if going by Hilton Flyertalkers. But after checking out, I was left with a rather ho-hum feeling. There was nothing wrong per se; in fact, everything was handled very well and professionally and it is a beautiful old hotel. But the issue is that it did not leave me with any wow factor, or the emotional attachment that were built with my favorite SPG properties. The Seelbach was, in my estimation, on the same level as the Westin Embassy Row. I'd stay at either again when visiting Louisville and DC respectively, but there won't be an emotional tug that I have developed with my favorite from Starwood.

When Starwood announced their devaluations a year ago, I had been hording points for a planned ten-year anniversary, once-in-a-lifetime redemption at one of the Bora Bora properties with Mrs. Tigre in 2009. While I figured 200,000 points for an overwater bungalow may not be the smartest return, my dreams were dashed when I realized that same room was going to be at least 300,000 points.

Rather than watch my points fall in value, like any good FTer, I booked future travel before all the categories went up. With now completed award stays at Princeville and St. Regis, Monarch Beach among other, I have begun to lean back towards SPG.

Based on my personal redemption preferences, I consider any category 7 to have left the program, I need to get a return of at least 2.5 cents per point and I usually like to redeem in properties I may not always be willing to pay cash for. Really Starwood wins here in two ways.

First, it is true that there are Hhonors properties like the Cavalieri and the Conrad Tokyo that compare well to any SPG Category 6. But these are few and far between. I have commented to collegues that if a top ten list was to be compiled from all HHonors worldwide and SPG properties only from Italy, there would be more hotels from Starwood on the list. Now many of these are now off limits to me, but I still have a plethora of SPG properties that I'm dying to visit that still fit into my redemption preferences.

Secondly, while there are HHonors category 6's that compare well to the same level with SPG, the vast majority correspond closer to Starwood's category 4. I see this in Orlando, Palm Springs, New Orleans, etc.

There just isn't the list of great properties that command a visit on their own with HHonors. I now have enough points to redeem six nights at any category 6 within Hilton Family. Because of two small children, I'm really not traveling any further than a 6-7 hour plane ride for a vacation redemption for at least a few years. Despite the limitation, that's still a lot of area to choose from. Still, my list of HHonors properties that get me excited are really small - HWV, Hilton Los Cabos, Hilton Cancun, Hilton Papagoyas (should it drop from all-inclusive and move to category 6), and that's about it. SPG has more properties that get me excited in the Yucatan alone.

There are still places where HHonors is useful. In New York City, with ridiculously high SPG redemption rates, HHonors is really the only choice there. But I'm not rushing there because the Doubletree is more special than other options.

With another round of devaluation just announced, people have begun to look closer at HHonors and other programs again. For myself, I still don't regret trying HHonors. They do have resorts I really can't wait to visit and the fact that their gold is more valuable than Starwood could tip the scale in their favor eventually. It's just what I value right now. But I have learned that value means a lot more to me than a strict equation where Westin Anywhere redeems at 3.5 cents per Starpoint today but will be 2.5 cents tomorrow and the comparable Hilton across the street is 1 cent per point.

Wow.

This is the most helpful-to-me statement I have found as I probe for accounts of customers' experiences.

I am giving SPG Plat a go this year and after 2 months I am still uncertain but hopeful.

Wow.

This is the most helpful-to-me statement I have found as I probe for accounts of customers' experiences.

I am giving SPG Plat a go this year and after 2 months I am still uncertain but hopeful.

hopeful for what? :confused:

Nice post OP although I think that hotel stays really are YMMV more and more. I have been Platinum for many years now and I can count on one hand the "wow" experience at any Starwood over all of my stays. There are others on this board who report that they are given amazing upgrades every single time they stay somewhere. Thank you for taking the time to discuss your experiences; looks like Hilton, from your perspective, has "won" at this point in time.

hopeful for what? :confused:

Nice post OP although I think that hotel stays really are YMMV more and more. I have been Platinum for many years now and I can count on one hand the "wow" experience at any Starwood over all of my stays. There are others on this board who report that they are given amazing upgrades every single time they stay somewhere. Thank you for taking the time to discuss your experiences; looks like Hilton, from your perspective, has "won" at this point in time.

I am hopeful that my experience surpasses this:

"But now, more than two years after my first platinum stay, I'm left feeling my drop in status is not a big loss to me. Perhaps my expectations were too high going in, but the rewards did not really justify the normal effort required to make SPG's highest level, at least that's my opinion for my personal situation.

In both years as a top level elite, I received a suite upgrade only a third of the time. Now I'm a realist (or an apologist - take your pick) and I realize that occupancy levels industrywide have never been higher. That means that more high level rooms (i.e. standard suites) are likely to be sold and there are more platinums fighting to get the upgrade to the few suites that are left. And that's not to mention the hotels that may not always upgrade when they should. Let's just say the upgrades often don't feel automatic, like the program boasts. But the point is when you have to unnecessarily pack up and move hotels, there are expectations that you'll get something for it. All too often that something would be nothing more than a room on a higher floor.

I was also looking forward to experiencing lounge access, where I could enjoy a relaxing evening cocktail or snack or a quick morning bite. I was surprised at how few properties had lounges and the few hotels I do frequent have closed them down in the last two years, like the WDW Dolphin and Westin St. Louis."

Or are you suggesting I shouldn't be?

Wow, your experience and thoughts mirror mine almost exactly. I came up 5 stays short for platinum reup in 2007 (after several years as platinum and several as gold before that). In prior years, I probably would have tried hard to get those last stays and/or done some weekend stays near home. But, my ultimate conclusion is that platinum just isn't worth the hassle for me. Ironically, I already have 6 stays this year and will likely easily reach platinum without any double counting, etc. But, my personal conclusion is that platinum is not worth going out of my way for. If I get it, fine. If not, fine.

I do like the 500 extra points. I did receive some nice upgrades (some particularly great upgrades on a european family vacation). But, my suite percentage is probably less than 20%. And, it's just not worth my time to fight with the clerks, look on line, etc. So, there are a few things I will miss. But, I agree that it is no big deal. In some ways, it will be a relief not to face the tension of wondering whether the front desk personnel will honor the program or not . . .

looks like Hilton, from your perspective, has "won" at this point in time.

I wouldn't say that really. In fact, I would say SPG is still my No. 1 program and I would expect they'll get the majority of my paid stays this year. To me it's a trade-off. With HHonors, I can get more consistent elite benefits as a mid-level elite and more free room nights, but in doing so, I miss out on the more unique and special hotel experiences with SPG along with the opportunity to redeem more of my free nights at these more unique and special properties.

With Starwood, I have about half a dozen hotels I'll book with every time I'm in the area because I've developed an emotional connection with those properties. Hilton hasn't had a single property that has accomplished that with me yet, but I've had much more time with Starwood. I'm sure that can change. Still, the list of hotels I'm jazzed to visit is much, much longer with SPG.

But I agree that YMMV is never more true with hotel stays than right now. With occupancy rates at all time highs, how can it not be?

This was an incredibly helpful post. Thank you.

But you've also broken my heart. I loved the lounge at the Westin St. Louis and had no idea it had gone away. We didn't do our usual fall trip cause the Cardinals were well they were Royal like last fall. (We did a spring trip last year though). I was planning a spring trip and I couldn't figure out why no club room rates would come up no matter the weekend I chose. Now I know. :( That's a real disappointment and such a bummer. I loved the club room, the staff, the amenities, and the feel and the schmooze opportunities. Wonder what Arthur and Alan are doing now? Especially since so many baseball teams and baseball executives stay there, I'm surprised they did this.

This is interesting. I am a Hilton Hhonors member. The program is excellent, and they treat me well. I, personally, think the Hilton Amex is the best rewards credit card on the planet.

The points add up quick, and there are Hilton properties everywhere. And I just recently returned from the Prague Hilton, where I got free Breakfast (as I did last year in Hawaii).

Hilton is a great program.

But...


Starwood properties are just NICE. There is no denying it.

Even some of their basic hotels are nice. A group of friends and myself went to New Orleans for labor day weekend at stayed at the Sheraton New Orleans. I was very, very impressed, even with that basic Sheraton. And we got a good rate at $89 per night.

Contrast that to New Years Eve, with we held a small gathering of friends at a suite at a Doubletree Suites in Houston. We paid $220 for one night, which I thought was overpriced (even for New Years). I walked into the suite and it was...a dump. Large? Yes. And the beds were new and kind of comfortable. But the suite itself totally disappointed, considering the rate paid.

Anyway, as much as I love Hilton Hhonors for the earning and reedemption opportunities, Blackstone (who bought the chain and is revamping it) needs to get it together and create more upper level and "experience" type of hotels and resorts to nail that "wow" factor.

Great post el-tigre. And very similar to my experience as well. I get very nice and consistent upgrades with my Hilton Gold (last time at the HWV). And very inconsistent upgrades with my SPG Platinum.

I think footballfan33 has hit the nail on the head. The great strength of Starwood are the special hotels. Not your normal Sheraton at the airport but the many unique properties across the world. But redeeming there has now become impossible unless you spend a few million Dollars on your credit card and don't care about points value.

Great post el-tigre. And very similar to my experience as well. I get very nice and consistent upgrades with my Hilton Gold (last time at the HWV). And very inconsistent upgrades with my SPG Platinum.

I think footballfan33 has hit the nail on the head. The great strength of Starwood are the special hotels. Not your normal Sheraton at the airport but the many unique properties across the world. But redeeming there has now become impossible unless you spend a few million Dollars on your credit card and don't care about points value.

Yep. And that's the thing: Starwood properties are outstanding, but unreachable, for many like myself. Meanwhile, as a Hilton member, I can stay at any Hilton I want in the world because those points add up super quick. If I traveled for business extensively, sure. But 99 percent of my travels are personal leisure, so I have to be mindful of costs.

Yep. And that's the thing: Starwood properties are outstanding, but unreachable, for many like myself. Meanwhile, as a Hilton member, I can stay at any Hilton I want in the world because those points add up super quick. If I traveled for business extensively, sure. But 99 percent of my travels are personal leisure, so I have to be mindful of costs.

This is quite interesting to me because since I make frequent trips to L.A. and the rest of Southern CA, I find Starwood an attractive option, to the point that I am giving up elite status in another program to go this way. I have found this thread the most helpful so far as far as realism is concerned, because as a newbie I have encountered numerous flaws. For instance, upgrades are hard to forecast and credit for points has to be followed up diligently with emails to Starwood, like the 500 high call volume benefit and a few others.

The thing that lured me into SPG was their list of properties. SPG has the least number of properties compared to its competitions, but it certainly has greatest percentage of unique properties compared to others. Also Platinum recognition seemed, on both good and bad days, better than the competition (with an exception of IC RA status).

As SPG Plat, I surely haven't been disappointed but also go in with an expectation that I won't always get the suite. Of 16 stays this year, I have received suite upgrades about 10 times, and those 6 times were just similar upgrades that I have received as a Gold member.

I value SPG points more so that other program points because of the ability to redeem for cash and points. It allows me to enjoy an extensive number of properties at a very reasonable rate with minor damage to the point balance.

The fact that HHonors do not have any promotions for me makes HHonors points highly valuable, and difficult to spend them on some lame Doubletree or Hilton hotels for 25-40K points. I keep telling myself, I've got to save them for HK Conrad or Maldives where normally the rates are 400 - 1000 USD per day. But this logic gives me not much opportunity to spend and enjoy the points.

PC points are in the similar situation but because they are very generous with promotions, I can spend them with less restriction and won't be so sad to use 40K points on a nice IC hotel. Plus, 5K point break promotions makes my points go the long way.

Based on being top tier status with these three programs, I would rate HH at the bottom and SPG at the top.

Very good post.I am somewhat in the opposite position.I am quaranteed HH gold for another 23 years but like everyone else need to start from scratch for diamond.The benefits have steadily eroded.Less upgrades,can miss lounge access and not one promotion in 5 years as diamond.So I am on the pathway to trying SPG.So far I have been impressed.2 stays so far and 2 for May and on each a 1000 point bonus plus 500 for booking online-that takes some effort though.
So it looks like I will aim for SPG platinum and keep HH gold.I guess you copuld do similiar retaining HH gold with CC and SPG with stays.

I prefer the wow factor with SPG, but I spend most of my nights with hilton 150 vs 75 at SPG. SPG has more high end hotels that I do love, but I can not always use them or they are not in a decent location. Hilton has a ton of ok hotels everywhere. Point wise I find hilton points easier to use, and they have more locations. SPG points can get you in to a dream vaction or hotel, it is just a lot harder to use them, either the costs for some of the hotes or you can not get a room with points. I have run into the later a couple of times, Hilton has never told me no useing points. You can not book a suite with them, but you can force a room and then use points versus SPG can force a room only at rack rate. Then there is the SPG resort rules, which drive me crazy.

Very good post.I am somewhat in the opposite position.I am quaranteed HH gold for another 23 years

How did that happen? 23 years!

How did that happen? 23 years!

He probably for the "-" sign. 2-3, i.e. another two to three years.

He probably for the "-" sign. 2-3, i.e. another two to three years.

:D

I thought maybe he was a lifelong employee, but not a good one (no Diamond).

Great post. Thanks.

He probably for the "-" sign. 2-3, i.e. another two to three years.


i'm sure drron said he is guaranteed HH Gold for the next 23 years, and i'm pretty sure this is correct too!

I'm betting timeshare purchase.

SPG has the most number of great properties, the places I want to redeem for, and some of them are still cat 5 or below :o

With the weakness of the dollar especially, but not only because of this, I'm frequenting Europe less and Asia more. I really should also include South America, but on the whole I don't get down there much. I can't afford Europe, I can't even afford breakfast at most SPG properties in Europe. :eek: And I am on the whole non-plussed with service levels in Europe.

There are still some wonderful redemption opportunities in Asia, even if not at the value award pricing points of a few years ago.

Bottom-line for Hilton is that there just aren't the places I really want to spend my scarce vacation time at. For me, a resort vacation needs to be a special experience in order for it to be worth bothering. Some people view a hotel on vacation as just a room, and for that I'd take Hilton and the guaranteed free breakfast.

Thank goodness for IC Royal Ambassador, but even that has been devalued a bit (no more guaranteed upgrade at booking, and it's still hit or miss at some specific properties). But there aren't enough Intercontinentals so you do need to pair it with something.

And don't think that Hilton Diamonds get suites consistently. Just breakfast.
The other piece to Starwood is that - for a really nice experience - it's important to research in advance and know what to expect, trying to select hotels which are likely to offer the benefits you want. Some are just great at delivering suites. Some have lovely club lounges. And some give plats bupkus.

Starwood offers something else that Hilton does not -- the ability to spend additional points for better rooms at a large number of properties. Now for many folks this will be out of the stratosphere impossible. And it often doesn't represent the value award that many are looking for, or as good a value as transferring points to some airline programs.

But there are a whole bunch more Starwood aspirational award opportunities than there are with other chains.

Still, you can't just walk into the W New York or for that matter the Sheraton New York and expect your Platinum status to deliver a special experience, unfortunately.

(Warning: very long!)

Great piece (and thx for the warning)

I travel more for the destination than for a destination hotel - so HHonors has worked pretty well - but there are two times I can say that SPG Gold status paid off - Sheraton Iguazú & Sheraton Niagara Falls (I had to "ask" for upgrades at both - but a falls view was worth it).

Great points from the OP.

Starwood (mostly) seems to have taken the upscale & trendy track compared to the other chains. I place a value on the uniqueness of many properties. But I don't place a value on the uniqueness of service levels, amenities and benefits that differ from stay to stay, even in the same hotel. The inconsistency, combined with the effort increasingly required to get the points credited, amenity delivered, etc. is frustrating.

I'll requal for Plat this year, but always looking for something better... if it exists.

So it looks like I will aim for SPG platinum and keep HH gold.I guess you copuld do similiar retaining HH gold with CC and SPG with stays.

That's how I feel about HH vs SPG. SPG Plat is great and HH Gold is gold enough, or different between SPG Plat and Gold is considerable, while the difference between HH Diamond and Gold is not as significant. I had great suite upgrades at nice SPG properties in Eastern Germany, Shanghai, and Sydney during the past 6 months.

I have been both HH Diamond and SPG Plat for a few years. Thanks to the initial 12-month rolling qualification for HH, I made Diamond through Apr. 2009 on Feb. 2007. That allowed me to concentrate on SPG and easily requalified for Plat and took advantage of the multiple promos.

Thanks to the Q1 double stay/night credits, I already have 18 stays, and will easily requalify Plat. Then I'll look at HH again to see if I can requal Diamond. But, I won't be upset if I end up HH Gold.

To be honest, the major reason that I, and many of my friends, stay with Starwood is because of W and Westin. IMHO, W provides the best service next to Ritz and FS (without being too old and stiff)

That's how I feel about HH vs SPG. SPG Plat is great and HH Gold is gold enough, or different between SPG Plat and Gold is considerable, while the difference between HH Diamond and Gold is not as significant. I had great suite upgrades at nice SPG properties in Eastern Germany, Shanghai, and Sydney during the past 6 months.

I have been both HH Diamond and SPG Plat for a few years. Thanks to the initial 12-month rolling qualification for HH, I made Diamond through Apr. 2009 on Feb. 2007. That allowed me to concentrate on SPG and easily requalified for Plat and took advantage of the multiple promos.

Thanks to the Q1 double stay/night credits, I already have 18 stays, and will easily requalify Plat. Then I'll look at HH again to see if I can requal Diamond. But, I won't be upset if I end up HH Gold.

For me I've been Hilton Diamond and Starwood Gold and now with the already mentioned incentives, I'll be first time Starwood Platinum and will most likely fall to Hilton Gold level as all my travel is personal/leisure.

I'm pretty sure at the hilton properties I frequent, they will treat me well as a gold as they did when I was Diamond. Well at least I hope.:confused:

Thanks to the OP for this really interesting thread!

I've been mostly SPG Gold for several years, but one year, did the extra stretch to get Platinum. I was all excited and couldn't wait to be led into the "inner sanctum" of frequent hotel programs. The following year, my experience was actually so underwhelming, that I quickly gave up requalifying.

As one person who does not have to travel a lot for business, I just found for myself that it wasn't worth chasing status just for the sake of status.

However, if I were a frequent business traveler, then certainly wouldn't hurt to just grab whatever qualifications come along and hope to snag a few nice rewards along the way!

So I would agree that shooting for an elite level in any program in excess of what you would travel may not be the wisest choice in this current climate. That being said, I still have been known to hop hotels during one stay in a city to increase those numbers of stays! :p

I would agree with everyone else that Starwood seems to have the more interesting properties in general, although I'm more intrigued with some Marriotts and Hyatts in Asia these days, so plan on just not sticking with one program. I found it rather freeing when I finally let go of just one or two programs and just went for the hotel that appealed to me most. Even then, I still cringe when I look at stays at places like RCs with no program, hehe...

I've scanned this tread a few times and consider the OP and several others a primary reference. As a newbie, this came none too soon and will continue to factor in my decisions.

As someone with top tier in HH/MR/SPG I can tell you my experiences:

You hit the nail on the head in reference to the uniqueness and cleanliness of SPG properties (well except for Four Points properties).

My problem with SPG is the lack of SPG hotels in major cities. (i.e. Jacksonville, Florida)

My 2nd problem with SPG is the lack of a free breakfast. I mean come on - how much does breakfast cost for your top tier guests? HH is way up on this. MR is in the same boat with SPG. If SPG would spread out a little and offer breakfast I would probably leave the HH program. I stay with the MR program for the consistent decent hotels in the boonies. With HH there are a lot of sketchy HIs.

Honestly though I run myself a little thin trying to maintain all 3 statuses (I stay ~160-170 nights a year in a hotel and I have to give MR 60 nights (+15 from the credit card) to keep plat there, and I stay hop in various cities for HH and SPG) so after my honeymoon next year I'll probably let my SPG drop down to Gold. I just want a slim oppurtunity to get an upgrade wherever we decide to go (More than likely a SPG resort). I just don't see the point beyond that to working to maintain Platinum. The consistency and the benefits just aren't there.

While I concur that the lack of SPG properties in some cities is an issue (I, too, was surprised that there was no property in Jacksonville), I have to say that my experience has been very different. I feel that SPG goes out of their way to appreciate me as a Platinum - much more so than when I was a Gold. I am upgraded to a suite or at least their executive floor on 90+% of my stays, and I believe that there is a very large difference between the treatment that I receive as a Starwood Plat and a Hilton Diamond (I'm both). As a Hilton Diamond, I was always treated well, but very rarely upgraded to a suite, and as a Hilton Gold I never saw any real benefits at all. Of course, YMMV.

While I appreciate the eloquent and well-thought-out message of the OP, I must respectfully disagree with his overall assessment of the value of status at Hilton and Starwood. Sorry to lose you!

Of course, YMMV.
While I appreciate the eloquent and well-thought-out message of the OP, I must respectfully disagree with his overall assessment of the value of status at Hilton and Starwood. Sorry to lose you!

I think you said it all with "YMMV."

I am probably going to lose RA status with IC this year, which I prefer, but this is because of limited IC locations, but even more because there's only one in Southern CA where I travel most (there are now 2 in the Bay Area).

When I travel to Hong Kong, Kenya, South Africa, Latin America and such, I am quite please with RA.

[QUOTE=jfulcher;9351270]As someone with top tier in HH/MR/SPG I can tell you my experiences:

You hit the nail on the head in reference to the uniqueness and cleanliness of SPG properties (well except for Four Points properties).

My problem with SPG is the lack of SPG hotels in major cities. (i.e. Jacksonville, Florida)

I've always wondered why there is no Starwood presence in Naples, Florida which has good MR and HH representation.

Great topic for discussion.

I would point out that your personal travel pattern will also have an impact on your experience with both SPG and HH. I have been a Plat since Westin and Sheraton got married and can say that I get suites about 50% of the time. I have also learned early on that you often have to ask 2 or 3 times but it can easily double your chances of getting that suite if you dont mind being a pest. Also have better luck on weekends and at resorts vs mid week in busy city hotels.

HH are nice but never will have the WOW factor some of the SPG resorts have. Great 2nd choice HH. also get treated well but mis the WOW.

I have no right posting here as I have been away for two weeks and leaving for New York, Sydney and Tokyo soon before arriving at the Freddie’s at the end of next month right off the plane from Tokyo.
The OPs post was exceptional and hit a chord with me so I couldn’t resist stepping in.
The concerns have been around about SPG Platinum level for years now
It started on the decline back in 2004 and snowballed by 2005 up to the year of the first Freddie loss. That said depending upon where you travel, the dates you arrive and what specific property you stay in your individual Platinum results will highly vary.

I have always taken the position that the Platinum suite upgrade should not be the only benefit that SPG Platinum members should have too look forward too or put the most emphasis on enjoying the Starwood Preferred Guest Program.

Back in 1999 I discussed vocally and passionately pleaded with Hoyt Harper Jr. the former VP of SPG marketing to consider adding suite upgrade to the program.
My initial suggestion and conversation was written off as not possible. I was thrilled when in March of 2000 it became a reality. To this day I feel somewhat proud that Starwood listened and reacted.
Today it remains amongst the most popular of all SPG Platinum program benefits

Back to the OPs concerns and others.
Starwoods continued success has put it in the position to command in many markets a handsome premium on both award and revenue rooms.
If that value proposition is unacceptable it is up to the buyer to seize other opportunities elsewhere.
I had to learn this the hard way many years ago.Not to put all my eggs in one basket/program.
Inside Flyer and others elsewhere have preached that advice for years where possible.
As a result I have a wealth of programs to today to choose from.
I rarely ever stay with SPG in cities like NYC,Paris and London.

I can not imagine my self without the SPG program and the various Platinum benefits and promotional opportunities it affords me on an annual basis
Thankfully for the past few years the targeted marketing gods have been really good to me. I have become more used to not receiving the volume of upgrades as I have had in the past and turned my attention to the full spectrum of what the well written SPG program has to offer.

I still find great value in the program though I tend to redeem free room nights more frequently in my other programs. Is there room for some tweaking at the SPG program?Without question in this mile hounds opinion
Some I see already seem to be in the thought/discussion process pipeline with SPG
I am guardedly optimistic that more improvements may yet be coming over time
Despite the current limitations so far it has already been a great year in 2008 to be a Platinum and we have only yet just begun.^

I agree also that closing exec lounges at Starwood properties and the lack of them and the inability to offer of a cont breakfast at the top tier continues to drive some of my business elsewhere.
In one example I have never been back to the Westin Copley Place in Boston when they took the lounge out and that was many years ago.

At the end of almost a decade I have put in with SPG as Platinum I remain a big SPG fan overall.
Sometimes if I feel slighted I try to open the channels of discussions up directly with the property and nicely.
Usually they try to keep us happy yet there is always going to be some disappointments along the way

Cash and Points has been a significant improvement to SPG and to some degree IMO saved the program.Let see what the rest of 2008 has in store.The past two years SPG has brought some real value to the table even if suites have been harder to comeby on average and the daily rates in some markets off the charts.Differentiate and explore all opportunities.I would be miserable today if I soley relied on SPG.Would also be unable to meet my annual work and leisure travel budget

Cheers

Great thread! After several years of SPG Platinum membership, I decided last year to not requalify for 2008 and move a portion of my travel business over to Hilton as well.

For me the biggest deciding factor was the fact that I did not feel like I was actually being rewarded for my SPG loyalty. Suite upgrades or even noticable room upgrades were very rare and the only real "wow" upgrade I can remember during my time as a Plat. was an upgrade at the Westin in Florence to a top floor room with a huge private balcony overlooking the river. During my time as a Plat., I felt like I was constantly having to ask/fight/beg for an upgrade and that really bothered me. When I travelled on business the upgrade wasn't that important to me but on vacactions I really hoped for a decent upgrade and was usually left disappointed! Maybe I should not have anticipated anything special but then again you hear of all the great upgrades everyone seems to get. The straw that broke the camels back for me was the St. Regis Monarch Beach that "upgraded" us to a "deluxe" room with a wonderful view of the stairwell to the pool and several overflowing trash cans as a Plat. member.

Those that are satisfied with the Plat. benefits are usually those that actually feel like they are getting something out of the program. If I were upgraded 90% of the time like others have posted then I probably wouldn't have looked for an alternative. (...if it had even been 50% I would have stayed too!). I do have to admit that the recent devaluations over the last two years also played a factor in my decision to move a portion of my business to Hilton but the upgrades were the main reason!

Hilton's program is definitely not without flaws. As a Gold member I however have had a pretty consistent track record of at least being upgraded to a club or executive floor room and also receiving a free breakfast. No suites BUT at least I know what I can expect and I am not disappointed! I also feel that Hilton's properties are not as "luxurious" as some Starwood properties but I still have enough SPG points to pick and chose between the two in the future plus I haven't given up on SPG yet. In addition there are always the credit card points in both programs we all love! (here too my thinking has changed from 100% of my Amex spending going on the SPG AMEX prior to 2/07 to now only about 55% and the other 45% going to the HH AMEX at locations earning 5pts. per $) Times change and won't be caught with the majority of my eggs in one basket again!

In my view, this has been and has the potential to continue as one of the most important hotel threads in FT.

I am elite member of several, and have been of others. I am not writing to this to say that I think SPG is the best program--for specific reasons it is for me it is right now, but YMMV.

The transparency and candor on this thread can get more people into SPG, rather than hesitating over a fear of buyer's remorse.

^ to the OP.

I have to agree this is a super thread ... and timely as I am considering moving the other way - from Hilton. I am on an award stay at one of the WOW Hilton properties the OP mentioned - Los Cabos. Great to have the free (continental) breakfast - almost 20$ otherwise. Good room with a view but no chance of a suite. Global award: 6 nights for 175k points (and no additional taxes or charges) for a room that would have cost 490$ per night all in (10% service charge added to 17% taxes)
Will I drop down to Hilton Gold to ensure high status at SPG ... probably - partly because I know I will still be upgraded at the airport hotels which make up such a large portion of my stays and partly as I am tired having to constantly chase for points for second rooms booked.

I look forward to seeking out all those unique SPG hotels :)

My problem with SPG is the lack of SPG hotels in major cities. (i.e. Jacksonville, Florida)

My 2nd problem with SPG is the lack of a free breakfast. I mean come on - how much does breakfast cost for your top tier guests? HH is way up on this. MR is in the same boat with SPG. If SPG would spread out a little and offer breakfast I would probably leave the HH program. I stay with the MR program for the consistent decent hotels in the boonies. With HH there are a lot of sketchy HIs.

Or states like Omaha... No Starwoods there. I did talk w/ one former Westin operations manager, he said (I have no idea if its true) that the food cost for the buffet was $5 per person.

I want to contrast this with my experiences with Hyatt. I think the big difference is that SPG over-promises for Platinums and under-delivers, and Hyatt does the opposite. Both programs have their plusses and minuses.

I guess the big benefit of the Hyatt program is free breakfast if the hotel doesn't have a lounge. I really appreciate this, especially on award stays, where I am with a family, and free breakfast are a true perceived value/benefit.

Second, on those occasions when I've really needed/wanted a suite upgrade at Hyatt -- again, when traveling with the family -- I have almost always been accommodated.

I think the combination of:

(1) the lack of quality and healthiness of the food at the Sheraton domestic lounges;

(2) the lack of free breakfasts at W's, Westins, and non-Sheratons; and

(3) the limited experience of most people in terms of receiving suite upgrades;

makes Hyatt a very compelling alternative.


On the other hand, I have had nice upgrades and special experiences at SPG properties which I don't think I would have had the opportuntity to access, or asked for on my end, if I wasn't a SPG Platinum.

If I may revive this thread, I think the OP's points are excellent. This is exactly why after being Platinum the last 5+ years I decided to not try to requalify last year and just drop to Gold. The biggest reason I achieved Platinum each year was suite upgrades. Extra points and free health club admission are nice, but the room itself is my biggest concern. Over the years I've seen my upgrade of any variety drop from about 80% to about 20%. The icing on the cake happened last Thanksgiving weekend at the Sheraton Oklahoma City. I had to BEG for a suite, and was only offered a small "parlor" room to attach to my guest room at a surcharge of $300. To me this sums up the recent, unfortunate attitude towards Platinums--that upgrades are not to be given unless they are paid for.

Since I don't travel for business and thus pay for all my stays, I finally decided that I'd rather just stay at nicer hotels and give up on suites in Starwood hotels. Thus, I now just stay at the Four Seasons, LHW, etc., rather than giving Starwood all my business.

If I may revive this thread, I think the OP's points are excellent. This is exactly why after being Platinum the last 5+ years I decided to not try to requalify last year and just drop to Gold. The biggest reason I achieved Platinum each year was suite upgrades. Extra points and free health club admission are nice, but the room itself is my biggest concern. Over the years I've seen my upgrade of any variety drop from about 80% to about 20%. The icing on the cake happened last Thanksgiving weekend at the Sheraton Oklahoma City. I had to BEG for a suite, and was only offered a small "parlor" room to attach to my guest room at a surcharge of $300. To me this sums up the recent, unfortunate attitude towards Platinums--that upgrades are not to be given unless they are paid for.

Since I don't travel for business and thus pay for all my stays, I finally decided that I'd rather just stay at nicer hotels and give up on suites in Starwood hotels. Thus, I now just stay at the Four Seasons, LHW, etc., rather than giving Starwood all my business.

Won't likely happen but this thread should be a sticky.

Perfectly said.........Starwood over promises and under delivers. If the program is in place then why don't all the properties partake properly and provide the upgrades or whatever else ? No, it is not up to us to BEG and ask ........that, at times can actually be quite embarassing. It is up to Starwood to train; educate and monitor their properties. It is amazing how different the customer service can be from one property to the next. Frustrating at times. There are times I get absolutely nothing extra & not recognized as a plat whatsoever , and you know the hotel is half empty; then there are times when the same happens and you mention it to someone that cares at the hotel and they come around and do everything possible to acheive their customer service goal.......that's great but why did I have to say something - do the people not know at the front desk to give a Plat an upgrade ? I think so. ; and lastly you arrive and they make you feel extremely comfortable and welcoming and make you feel proud to be a Plat... these are few and far between.

Perfectly said.........Starwood over promises and under delivers. If the program is in place then why don't all the properties partake properly and provide the upgrades or whatever else ? No, it is not up to us to BEG and ask ........that, at times can actually be quite embarassing. It is up to Starwood to train; educate and monitor their properties. It is amazing how different the customer service can be from one property to the next. Frustrating at times. There are times I get absolutely nothing extra & not recognized as a plat whatsoever , and you know the hotel is half empty; then there are times when the same happens and you mention it to someone that cares at the hotel and they come around and do everything possible to acheive their customer service goal.......that's great but why did I have to say something - do the people not know at the front desk to give a Plat an upgrade ? I think so. ; and lastly you arrive and they make you feel extremely comfortable and welcoming and make you feel proud to be a Plat... these are few and far between.

Great post. To me it should be standard training for the front desk person to say upon check-in one of the following:

1) "You've been upgraded to a suite."
2) "A suite was not available when we searched for suites for Platinum guests this morning. Let me look to see if something has opened up." If there is no suite then identify the next best 2-3 rooms and let the guest choose amongst them.

Is this really so hard? I used to LOVE staying at Starwood as a platinum in anticipation of the suite I might get, and I did get some great ones. I approached each stay with giddy anticipation. Last year it was more an attitude of, I probably won't get anything but I might as well beg for at least a corner room. Now, I figure why bother? Many times it was the prospect of a suite at Starwood that kept me from a regular room in nicer hotels. I might as well just go to the nicer hotel at this point.

Great post. To me it should be standard training for the front desk person to say upon check-in one of the following:

1) "You've been upgraded to a suite."
2) "A suite was not available when we searched for suites for Platinum guests this morning. Let me look to see if something has opened up." If there is no suite then identify the next best 2-3 rooms and let the guest choose amongst them.

Is this really so hard? I used to LOVE staying at Starwood as a platinum in anticipation of the suite I might get, and I did get some great ones. I approached each stay with giddy anticipation. Last year it was more an attitude of, I probably won't get anything but I might as well beg for at least a corner room. Now, I figure why bother? Many times it was the prospect of a suite at Starwood that kept me from a regular room in nicer hotels. I might as well just go to the nicer hotel at this point.

Dead On !!! It's the little perk that you anticipate upon your arrival at a hotel you may have never stayed at..............I love it. I actually get excited to get to the hotel. Then.....BANG. You get to your room and it is probably the worst in the hotel. Not always---but it is a downer when you arrive and are not recognized. Please don't get me wrong--------I am no big wheeler and respect all. It's just if the program is there - use it - it gives me a little excitement to be a loyal SPG customer !

Dead On !!! It's the little perk that you anticipate upon your arrival at a hotel you may have never stayed at..............I love it. I actually get excited to get to the hotel. Then.....BANG. You get to your room and it is probably the worst in the hotel. Not always---but it is a downer when you arrive and are not recognized. Please don't get me wrong--------I am no big wheeler and respect all. It's just if the program is there - use it - it gives me a little excitement to be a loyal SPG customer !

Yep! Happened to me again at the Westin Memphis Beale street two days ago. I am now only gold, but was initially given the SMALLEST room on the floor (according to the fire escape map, and the room was quite small). The hotel was empty because it was Easter weekend. I went back to the front desk and was fortunately able to upgrade to a junior suite at 1500 points a night. The junior suite had a huge bathroom but the room was only about as big as a ordinary room. I guess I wasn't getting suites as a platinum; I shouldn't expect one of the better regular rooms as a gold.

Plus the valet put 200 miles on my rental car during one night, but that's another thread.

Back and forth for me to. I'm NOT a typical FTer - my points are mostly amassed from the Starwood AMEX and my stays are mostly free due to the points. I got Starwood Platinum via AMEX Centurion and had a remarkable run. That summer I had three trips - New Orleans "W", Mont Tremblant and Princeville and scored 3 for 3 in suite upgrades. I was sold.

Obviously, I was also depressed when I learned that I would no longer have it! A double stay promotion and a very low rate at a local Sheraton got me Platinum status thru next February.

I generate lots of points on the credit card but my vacation stays have been limited by the recent birth of three grandchildren within four months! I also realized that some of the hotels in Europe (like the Prince des Galles) charged a minimum in extra points for a Junior Suite and that they were sometimes actually two rooms. So I would book the Junior Suite but again, each time be upgraded to a full suite.

Last Christmas, when Puerto Vallarta was only 7,000 points per night, I decided to simply pay the extra points for a two-story suite and not worry about the upgrade. Where can you get a suite in a vacation resort between Christmas and New Years for 14,000 points per night.

These months later, the devaluation has thrown me for a loop. 20,000 points per month on the AMEX now barely gets me one night (save Cash & Points), while the same spending would generate 60,000 points on the Hilton AMEX and get me almost two nights. It looks like when the Starwood Platinum ends, there will be no more mileage runs for me - just no longer worth it. As Hilton Gold, I may just have to make do with the free breakfasts.

The only place where I cannot replace the Starwood AMEX is flights. Three summers in a row, we transferred points to Cathay Pacific who booked us Business Class seats on British Air. The first year it was First Class - 145,000 Starwood points for TWO tickets! Now it's 65,000 per BC seat - still a fabulous bargain and a great use of points.

But as I've said elsewhere, the writing is on the wall - too many points out there and these businesses are having to deal with it the only way they can - to make them less valuable. If someone had told me two years ago that I would waffle on Starwood, I would have thought they were nuts but I guess nothing is forever. Yet the flight conversions and Cash & Points (three nights at the Hotel Eden in Rome this summer) still keep me around.