TalkBoard Topics - New Forum Request: Flyertalk Approved Charities

I see today that there is another proposal for an approved charity.

Once these charities are approved, it seems like they would be off limits to be posted in any particular forum.

I would like to recommend that the Talkboard consider adding a "Flyertalk Cares Forum" which would allow discussion of such charities... and a place for approved charities to "advertise" and the like.

Thoughts?

I just have a couple of questions that I'm hoping you can answer so I can properly start to form an opinion.

Where do these posts go now?

Approximately how many charities are there? Are we talking 2-3 or 30-40?

What types of discussion to you see being made on these charities? What type of discussion is there currently on these charities?

How do you see advertising of approved charities working?

How about just having a list of the approved charities be a sticky in "Community?"

How about just having a list of the approved charities be a sticky in "Community?"
If you are thinking about CommunityBuzz! forum, then we are on the same page. :D

I am not sure if the Approved Charities would be big enough to have their own forum, but I do think we probably need a place for discussion on charities (FTer approved or not). Charities in a sense is a community issue. Should the format of the list/discussion be a sticky or a subforum under CommunityBuzz!? I can go either way.

I know how much many members hate Stickys.... and not sure I would consider "Charities" something that would warrant a permanent sticky.

I know that Randy does not want any discussion of non approved charities on FT... or links... so was not thinking that.

I was actually thinking a forum on the approved charities would allow a place for the charity to be discussed...

I do not anticipate it being the busiest forum in the world... but thought it would be great to have a place for the charities to be highlighted.

Please... NO subforums.... :)

Why isn't the list of "approved" charities just added to the existing FlyerTalk Cares page (http://www.flyertalk.com/cares/)? This page includes a link to discussion threads (in whatever forum the OP requested permission to post the charity).

I think this format provides a consolidated list (on FlyerTalk Cares page) and a discussion thread in either CommunityBuzz, the BA forum, or wherever it is most likely to attract the desired attention. Limiting all discussion threads to a "Charity" forum probably won't attract much in the way of attention or donations, which sort of defeats the purpose.

For those who haven't seen the FlyerTalk Cares page before, it is under "Members" at the top of your FT window.

Part of my reason for suggesting something.... do we really want charity requests in all the different forums?

I would think that MOST charities would interest members of different forums... but we do not allow cross posting....

I would just like to see a way for approved charities to get focused attention.

FlyerTalk is made up of many sub-communities. While the TB's approval of charity solicitations is a blanket approval, it is left to the discretion of the person wanting (and approved) to make the solicitations and the various forum moderators to decide where those solicitations are most appropriate.

Some folks have focused their solicitations among the BA community, some the GLBT community, etc. I'd be reticent to limit the ability of posters to present their approved solicitations to the audience they see as best (with the consent of the forum moderator, natch).

FlyerTalk is made up of many sub-communities. While the TB's approval of charity solicitations is a blanket approval, it is left to the discretion of the person wanting (and approved) to make the solicitations and the various forum moderators to decide where those solicitations are most appropriate.

Some folks have focused their solicitations among the BA community, some the GLBT community, etc. I'd be reticent to limit the ability of posters to present their approved solicitations to the audience they see as best (with the consent of the forum moderator, natch).

I agree with everything kokonutz says here...I don't think a FlyerTalk Charities forum is a good idea at all because I honestly doubt it would get much traffic & I don't think that it'll necessarily attract the users that would be likely to donate to its cause.

How about a sub forum under Community Buzz that lists approved charities?

How about a sub forum under Community Buzz that lists approved charities?

Personally, I'd rather see a sticky thread for a while before a subforum was actually created...

How about a sub forum under Community Buzz that lists approved charities?

Punki,

If a decision was taken to create a specific forum.... I would prefer it to appear right after CommunityBuzz in the main Forum list; not as a subforum. I feel things get lost as subforums....

Thanks for considering it.

With any new forum, there will be a certain amount of slowness to it. There is no doubt about that. However, I think the biggest things that need to be considered are:

Pros
1)A place that contains a list of charities have been approved/rejected.
2)A place where members can discuss how to (and best way to) donate such things as airline miles and other points from car rentals and hotels as well as cash, time, and other resources.

Con
1)FT can be left open to that forum becoming a tribal hunting ground for people trying to raise money for their own charity.

With any new forum, there will be a certain amount of slowness to it. There is no doubt about that. However, I think the biggest things that need to be considered are:

Pros
1)A place that contains a list of charities have been approved/rejected.
2)A place where members can discuss how to (and best way to) donate such things as airline miles and other points from car rentals and hotels as well as cash, time, and other resources.

Con
1)FT can be left open to that forum becoming a tribal hunting ground for people trying to raise money for their own charity.

I agree with most of this - however, the con part won't necessarily be applicable since "unapproved" charities will not be allowed to post.

I'm a bit ambivalent whether this should be a new forum or a sticky somewhere - Community seems to be the logical choice.

Cross-posting to relevant forums (for the audience) should be allowed but limited - eg not to every forum - not sure what limit should be placed however. For example, if I were trying to solicit for a charity, my natural forums would be GLBT & Hyatt but probably not to Delta (where I participate on a limited basis).

As one of the co-hosts of the Cow Do in Buenos Aires, I organize a series of Wine Tasting's that benefit different charities. If this would have to be part of the FT approved Charity scheme... please let me know so that I can see how I can get the Charity we will benefit on the approved list.

Thanks.

FlyerTalk is made up of many sub-communities. While the TB's approval of charity solicitations is a blanket approval, it is left to the discretion of the person wanting (and approved) to make the solicitations and the various forum moderators to decide where those solicitations are most appropriate.

Some folks have focused their solicitations among the BA community, some the GLBT community, etc. I'd be reticent to limit the ability of posters to present their approved solicitations to the audience they see as best (with the consent of the forum moderator, natch).

I agree. I'm AGAINST a forum centred around charity.

Based on the recent discussions, I wanted to bring this back to the top.

I had suggested this several months ago.... and still feel it is appropriate if we want to allow charity solicitations on FT.

Another member suggested in another thread about just letting individuals post their own charity requests... and this forum could be such a "SPAM ALLOWED" forum.

Thoughts?

Since my cancer diagnosis I have seen one real unmet need. The different nonprofit organizations that do conferences and retreats have limited scholarship $$ to cover registrations, etc. However, they require participants to arrange and pay for their own transportation, which is very reasonable since their funds are limited. I have had a dream of coordinating efforts to have donations of tickets for these events so more can attend. It really keeps survivors current and hearing and talking to the doctors is invaluable when your treatment options are slim. If we really want to meet an unmet need this would be a wonderful way and not take much effort. I would certainly volunteer my time to help. My background is mental health, as well as having worked for charities. Not as easy as just listing charities but much more innovative and helpful in my mind. Thanks for your consideration.

hinsopa-

Is there a specific charity you have in mind? If so, you might want to PM any of the TalkBoard members and see if they'll discuss it in the private TalkBoard forum and consider a vote on it.

In another thread, a Talkboard member posted: "TalkBoard was not tasked with determining whether a charity's value system was "agreeable". We were tasked with determining the legitimacy of a charity. If this task needs to change, it should be through a formal motion to change the function of TB's involvement with FlyerTalk Cares, not through intimidation and harrassment."

I would therefore like to ask the Talkboard to consider changing its charter around the approval of charities.

My recommendation:

- The Talkboard immediately suspends its current process for approving charities.
- The Talkboard approve the creation of a "Charities Solicitation" Forum (or whatever name you want) as a Forum under "Community". In this forum, any member can start a thread for a charity or organization. Other members are free to chime in with support or criticisms of such forums. All charity discussions on Flyertalk are to stay in this forum. If a particular charity has relations to other forums, (ie. Women's Forum, Delta, GLBT, BA) then a thread can be started to indicate there is a thread in the Charities Forum and all discussions should take place in that forum.

Once this is approved, the Talkboard has no further involvement in the approval of charities for Flyertalk members. Each member can decise for him/herself whether to support a charity.

I hope the Talkboard considers this suggestion.

In another thread, a Talkboard member posted: "TalkBoard was not tasked with determining whether a charity's value system was "agreeable". We were tasked with determining the legitimacy of a charity. If this task needs to change, it should be through a formal motion to change the function of TB's involvement with FlyerTalk Cares, not through intimidation and harrassment."

I would therefore like to ask the Talkboard to consider changing its charter around the approval of charities.

My recommendation:

- The Talkboard immediately suspends its current process for approving charities.
- The Talkboard approve the creation of a "Charities Solicitation" Forum (or whatever name you want) as a Forum under "Community". In this forum, any member can start a thread for a charity or organization. Other members are free to chime in with support or criticisms of such forums. All charity discussions on Flyertalk are to stay in this forum. If a particular charity has relations to other forums, (ie. Women's Forum, Delta, GLBT, BA) then a thread can be started to indicate there is a thread in the Charities Forum and all discussions should take place in that forum.

Once this is approved, the Talkboard has no further involvement in the approval of charities for Flyertalk members. Each member can decise for him/herself whether to support a charity.

I hope the Talkboard considers this suggestion.

+ 1

+2

This would also significantly lessen the personal liability exposure of individual TalkBoard members.

In another thread, a Talkboard member posted: "TalkBoard was not tasked with determining whether a charity's value system was "agreeable". We were tasked with determining the legitimacy of a charity. If this task needs to change, it should be through a formal motion to change the function of TB's involvement with FlyerTalk Cares, not through intimidation and harrassment."

I would therefore like to ask the Talkboard to consider changing its charter around the approval of charities.

My recommendation:

- The Talkboard immediately suspends its current process for approving charities.
- The Talkboard approve the creation of a "Charities Solicitation" Forum (or whatever name you want) as a Forum under "Community". In this forum, any member can start a thread for a charity or organization. Other members are free to chime in with support or criticisms of such forums. All charity discussions on Flyertalk are to stay in this forum. If a particular charity has relations to other forums, (ie. Women's Forum, Delta, GLBT, BA) then a thread can be started to indicate there is a thread in the Charities Forum and all discussions should take place in that forum.

Once this is approved, the Talkboard has no further involvement in the approval of charities for Flyertalk members. Each member can decise for him/herself whether to support a charity.

I hope the Talkboard considers this suggestion.

-1

Allowing people to argue the pro's and con's of a particular charity, it's work or it's sponsors could spawn many heated confrontations and who would eventually want to post in such a forum and risk the potential wrath of many others? And what would stop some from posting simply to promote a controversial or confrontational agenda? Or would moderation keep the debate on a somewhat civil level?

While not wanting to be the pessimist I see some room for a less than positive forum developing but that's just MHO and I appreciate OP making suggestions.

I'd like to see FT stop allowing any commercial or charitable solicitations.

It would enable us to focus all of collective energy on miles, points, travel, etc. and avoid train wrecks similar to what we have here.

My recommendation:

- The Talkboard immediately suspends its current process for approving charities.
- The Talkboard approve the creation of a "Charities Solicitation" Forum (or whatever name you want) as a Forum under "Community". In this forum, any member can start a thread for a charity or organization. Other members are free to chime in with support or criticisms of such forums. All charity discussions on Flyertalk are to stay in this forum. If a particular charity has relations to other forums, (ie. Women's Forum, Delta, GLBT, BA) then a thread can be started to indicate there is a thread in the Charities Forum and all discussions should take place in that forum.

I agree with your suggestions in general; however, if such a forum were created, I believe it should be read-only or else it could easily turn into a war zone. There could also be a disclaimer at the top stating that FlyerTalk itself does not endorse any of the organizations mentioned. It would be up to the readers to do their research and act accordingly.

Another option instead of a forum might be to allow an approved sig line where posters can promote their causes with a link to more info. If it begins with FLYERTALKERS CARE: it will be easily seen and distinguishable from spam postings.

I would expect this forum to be under the same rules as any other forum... and would expect it would have a dedicated moderator team or the Senior Mods.

I would not want to stifle debate... look what came out when we allowed members to get engage. Information that the TB did not see came to light. I believe hearty and civil debate would be valuable.

I agree with your suggestions in general; however, if such a forum were created, I believe it should be read-only or else it could easily turn into a war zone. There could also be a disclaimer at the top stating that FlyerTalk itself does not endorse any of the organizations mentioned. It would be up to the readers to do their research and act accordingly.

Another option instead of a forum might be to allow an approved sig line where posters can promote their causes with a link to more info. If it begins with FLYERTALKERS CARE: it will be easily seen and distinguishable from spam postings.

I believe a statement such as this would have alleviated much of the discussion of the MTW issue because it moves a cause from the general endorsement arena into the individual opinion arena. Each FTer who is interested in a particular charity is tasked with the job of research and can then make an individual decision about supporting it, or not. Then the support of an organization will not be seen as coming from a representative voice speaking for FlyerTalk.

I would expect this forum to be under the same rules as any other forum... and would expect it would have a dedicated moderator team or the Senior Mods.

I think that would be the way to go. If anyone feels that a post does not fit within the FlyerTalk TOS, the "bad post" icon can be hit so that it could be dealt with in the manner already established for every other post which a member might find offensive.

I believe a statement such as this would have alleviated much of the discussion of the MTW issue because it moves a cause from the general endorsement arena into the individual opinion arena. Each FTer who is interested in a particular charity is tasked with the job of research and can then make an individual decision about supporting it, or not. Then the support of an organization will not be seen as coming from a representative voice speaking for FlyerTalk.

I also support this proposal - separate forum for FT Charities (or whatever name might be better). Another refinement might be to only allow posts from members that have passed a certain milestone (posts/time) like Coupon Connection and OMNI. I don't believe in making it post only and no discussion but of course the discussion needs to be moderated.

I don't believe in making it post only and no discussion but of course the discussion needs to be moderated.

I do agree that allowing discussion would be valuable (certainly the current exchanges on this topic demonstrate that); my only thought in suggesting read-only was in regard to the moderators as that could potentially be a very demanding forum moderation-wise. Perhaps no more so than some others on FT, though.

Another refinement might be to only allow posts from members that have passed a certain milestone (posts/time) like Coupon Connection and OMNI.

That seems like a good idea.

In another thread, a Talkboard member posted: "TalkBoard was not tasked with determining whether a charity's value system was "agreeable". We were tasked with determining the legitimacy of a charity. If this task needs to change, it should be through a formal motion to change the function of TB's involvement with FlyerTalk Cares, not through intimidation and harrassment."

I would therefore like to ask the Talkboard to consider changing its charter around the approval of charities.

My recommendation:

- The Talkboard immediately suspends its current process for approving charities.
- The Talkboard approve the creation of a "Charities Solicitation" Forum (or whatever name you want) as a Forum under "Community". In this forum, any member can start a thread for a charity or organization. Other members are free to chime in with support or criticisms of such forums. All charity discussions on Flyertalk are to stay in this forum. If a particular charity has relations to other forums, (ie. Women's Forum, Delta, GLBT, BA) then a thread can be started to indicate there is a thread in the Charities Forum and all discussions should take place in that forum.

Once this is approved, the Talkboard has no further involvement in the approval of charities for Flyertalk members. Each member can decise for him/herself whether to support a charity.

I hope the Talkboard considers this suggestion.

I support this.

I'd like to see FT stop allowing any commercial or charitable solicitations.

It would enable us to focus all of collective energy on miles, points, travel, etc. and avoid train wrecks similar to what we have here.

I agree. But if FT wants to have such a forum, then I think wharvey's suggestions above have a lot of merit.

I actually like this idea, for what it's worth. The current system, as a TalkBoard member said on another thread, is broken with regard to this specific practice. A general forum is a much better idea. That way, no organization is given preference, and everyone can respectfully discuss merits or demerits of giving, and it's all kept in one place where you can observe, participate or ignore appeals altogether.

This proposal makes a lot of sense to me. Leaving aside the issue that (to my mind rightly) is developing an awful lot of heat at the momenet it will stop the perceived endorsement of charities by FT as a community. This endorsement has the capacity not only to cause offence to signicant bodies of the membership but can also present a PR problem to the community as a whole.

I would expect this forum to be under the same rules as any other forum... and would expect it would have a dedicated moderator team or the Senior Mods.

I would not want to stifle debate... look what came out when we allowed members to get engage. Information that the TB did not see came to light. I believe hearty and civil debate would be valuable.

While certainly a laudable goal, the sniping in MTW monster thread to me only serves to prove my point that where certain topics collide civility is the first casualty.

Some further thoughts in support of this proposal.

There are very few charities out there that doesn't have some opposition by some people on Flyertalk.

Some examples (and these are only examples and not how I feel). Breast cancer can be construed as somewhat discriminatory since the vast majority of victims are women (my family is affected too - my stepgrandmother passed away from breast cancer and the woman that takes care of my grandfather is fighting it right now). AIDS is transmitted by primarily unprotected sex and IV drug usage so even if the charity goal is to provide condoms to promote safe sex strict Catholics would find that offensive since its a form of "unnatural" birth control.

Again, please note that these are definitely not my views on these charities but could be for "some" Flyertalkers.

Enactment of this proposal with the disclaimer takes Flyertalk and TalkBoard out of value judgement calls that can be controversial. Perhaps a compromise would be for TalkBoard to still assign members to review each charity and post their results in this proposed Charity Forum just to provide information.

I honestly do not see why any of us needs the Talkboard to do our due dilegence... if the current uproar is an indication of what we can expect, I do not want them near dilegence. I do my own diligence when I am deciding what charities to contribute to....

Another option instead of a forum might be to allow an approved sig line where posters can promote their causes with a link to more info. If it begins with FLYERTALKERS CARE: it will be easily seen and distinguishable from spam postings.

I strongly oppose the idea of allowing people to put commercial and/or charitable links into the sig line because I am afraid that leads to an incredible inflation of useless posts that are placed only to get the link-message across as many boards as possible.

just my opinion of course :)

I strongly oppose the idea of allowing people to put commercial and/or charitable links into the sig line because I am afraid that leads to an incredible inflation of useless posts that are placed only to get the link-message across as many boards as possible.

just my opinion of course :)

That's a very good point. My mind just doesn't work in that way so that would never have occurred to me, but you're right of course.

I strongly oppose the idea of allowing people to put commercial and/or charitable links into the sig line...
You don't need to oppose the commercial links. It is against FT TOS to have commercial links/sites anywhere in FT. I believe you can't put the links in signature nor public profile.

Using FlyerTalk for Commercial Purposes (http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php#q83)

FlyerTalk prohibits advertising, commercial sales and solicitations through posts, private messages or emails accessed through FlyerTalk. Anyone using FlyerTalk for commercial purposes will be subject to the disciplinary process.

You don't need to oppose the commercial links. It is against FT TOS to have commercial links/sites anywhere in FT. I believe you can't put the links in signature nor public profile.

Using FlyerTalk for Commercial Purposes (http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php#q83)

False. Some commercial links are permitted in signatures and FTer KVS is one that comes to mind. I don't know whether a special exemption for this and any other FTers was made or the rest of the background, just pointing out what I've seen.

I see no reason for anything to change so long as the following is considered:

1. Is the charity purely altruistic in that it has no other goals other than the elimination of disease/poverty/worthwhile cause. Any such attachments as religous, political or philosophical discussions of any kind should mean Flyertalk will not support it. (This would mean my personal cause, promotion of Human Rights should be excluded due to it's obvious political nature).
2. Does it demand something in return from its benefactors i.e. conversion of faith, or change in political belief system or similar.

It doesn't need to be hard, we just need a little common sense!!!

False. Some commercial links are permitted in signatures and FTer KVS is one that comes to mind. I don't know whether a special exemption for this and any other FTers was made or the rest of the background, just pointing out what I've seen.
Well, is KVS being considered as a commercial website? I am just asking. I know it takes donation/contribution. I don't know if it's a site for profit.