Hilton HHonors - Extraordinary Demand Dates Still in Effect?

Has anyone confirmed that Extraordinary Demand Dates still exist? A few threads allude to these going away today with Hilton's new "No Blackout" program, but the hotel that I've been trying to book still has dates blocked for reward redemption, though I can book a room at the regular rate.

Has anyone confirmed that Extraordinary Demand Dates still exist? A few threads allude to these going away today with Hilton's new "No Blackout" program, but the hotel that I've been trying to book still has dates blocked for reward redemption, though I can book a room at the regular rate.


What hotel?
What dates?
What did the hilton say when you called?

There are still extraordinary demand dates.
For the Diamond members nothing has changed.

What hotel?
What dates?
What did the hilton say when you called?


1. DoubleTree Suites, Times Square
2. Week of Thanksgiving
3. When I called a few days ago, they didn't even know about the new "No Blackout" policy. This included a supervisor. I wanted to see if anyone had booked a previously unavailable hotel since the change.

I would send an email to flyertalk@hilton.com and ask them what's going on.

Extraordinary Demand Dates would be contrary to the new policy that should have taken effect today.

They (DD also) will be happy to explain that EDD is not a blackout date.

1. DoubleTree Suites, Times Square
2. Week of Thanksgiving
3. When I called a few days ago, they didn't even know about the new "No Blackout" policy. This included a supervisor. I wanted to see if anyone had booked a previously unavailable hotel since the change.
IIRC (and im sure someone will correct me), in the past, the majority of New York City properties fall under "extraordinary Demand" do to the influx of shoppers and tourist during November and December.



I would send an email to flyertalk@hilton.com and ask them what's going on.

Extraordinary Demand Dates would be contrary to the new policy that should have taken effect today.

They (DD also) will be happy to explain that EDD is not a blackout date.
blackcomb, beat me to it, but "blackout dates" and "extraordinary demand" are two different things. A major conventional where they take up the entire hotel (usually in concert with the local Vistor and Convention Authority), the Olympics, World Series, NBA Finals all fall under fall under "extraordinary demand"

blackcomb, beat me to it, but "blackout dates" and "extraordinary demand" are two different things. I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that. If that's the line HHonors takes, I will be very disappointed with them. Their materials on this change have been quite clear that if a Standard Room is avialable for booking with cash, then it will be available for use with points. If you are having problems doing that at a specific hotel I would strongly urge you to contact flyertalk@hilton.com, as is the case with the OP's situation.A major conventional where they take up the entire hotel (usually in concert with the local Vistor and Convention Authority), the Olympics, World Series, NBA Finals all fall under fall under "extraordinary demand"If the rooms are blocked/booked, that's a different story, as conventions and other groups often do for the types of events you mention, since they are then not available for purchase to the general public.

Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not sure why you guys would be giving HHonors a pass on this on the very first day of the program. Personally I would not put any faith in what any customer service representative says about a program that was so recently announced and is only on its first day of implementation. That's why I suggest if anyone is not getting the answer they should be getting under the letter of the newly announced program to send an email to flyertalk@hilton.com so we can determine for sure if they're not hhonoring what they said they would do.

The new T&C's do not seem to make any exceptions for EDD's. Does anyone have a link that says otherwise?

Even if these exceptions still exist and are excluded from the new no blackout dates/no capacity controls policy, isn't it a bit of a stretch to say that lots of shoppers in November and December represent extraordinary demand? Seems completely normal and ordinary to me.

My take on EDD is pretty simple: the dates should be few and far between and should be published on the website for each property. At the corporate level, the property's use of EDD should be closely reviewed/audited.

I've seen posts - I think in both SPG and Marriott forums - that indicate those chains actually do keep it pretty tight on when a prop can invoke EDD. Super Bowl, Olympics - obviously yes. Something like the NBA Finals - probably no. (That is, they would not allow dozens of Marriotts or Westins around the country to declare EDD for a week in June because they have an NBA team in town.) Declaring an entire city EDD because people like to shop between Thanksgiving and Christmas is lame - that should not be allowed.

I don't like the EDD concept, but I kind of understand why it's there. As long as it's appropriately limited to truly major world events - and PUBLISHED - then it really doesn't bother me too much.

I think Hilton is fair with the EDD. SPG does not have them, but the hotels will hold the entire place for a convention, so the end result is worse.

I think Hilton is fair with the EDD. SPG does not have them, but the hotels will hold the entire place for a convention, so the end result is worse.

Fair or not, I can find nothing that indicates that EDD's apply to limiting rewards nights when paid nights are available. If they are being used as capacity controls, it is being done in violation of the clearly stated new policy in the HHonors Terms and Conditions (http://hhonors1.hilton.com/en_US/hh/terms.do#hotel_rewards):

Hotel rewards are not subject to blackout dates or capacity controls. Hotel reward nights apply to standard rooms only, as defined by each hotel and subject to availability.

The current banner ad on the HHonors home page (http://hhonors.hilton.com/en/hhonors/index.jhtml) links to a page that says:

If a standard room is available, you can redeem points for it.

EDD's are only mentioned as an exception to the rule allowing Diamonds to reserve paid rooms (that can usually be converted to free ones) at completely sold out hotels.

I have had many properties in NYC say its EDD but when I call they are able to book it. I realize to most of use, black out and EDD are one and the same (at least to me they are) while in the T&Cs they are not.

Good Hunting!
Peace!

I've seen posts - I think in both SPG and Marriott forums - that indicate those chains actually do keep it pretty tight on when a prop can invoke EDD. Super Bowl, Olympics - obviously yes. Something like the NBA Finals - probably no. (That is, they would not allow dozens of Marriotts or Westins around the country to declare EDD for a week in June because they have an NBA team in town.) Declaring an entire city EDD because people like to shop between Thanksgiving and Christmas is lame - that should not be allowed.

Starwood actually doesn't have an EDD policy for award redemptions, just for the platinum override forced booking.
If Starwood hotels are selling standard rooms--at any price--through a Starwood channel and the rooms haven't been, say, bought up by the Olympics Committee, etc., then those rooms have to be made available for award nights.

So, if Hilton is using Starwood as a model for its no capacity controls, no blackout dates award redemption program, they may do something similar.

Extraordinary demand dates are a huge black eye in the hilton honors program. Any property gets to declare them at will, and there is no appeal.

I have had extraordinary demand dates pulled on me when the hotel is wide open if I wanted to make a revenue res. My contention is that if demand is so extraordinary, how come there is plenty of vacancy? The Diamond Desk shrugs.

Extraordinary demand dates are a huge black eye in the hilton honors program. Any property gets to declare them at will, and there is no appeal.

I have had extraordinary demand dates pulled on me when the hotel is wide open if I wanted to make a revenue res. My contention is that if demand is so extraordinary, how come there is plenty of vacancy? The Diamond Desk shrugs.

I am in the same situation. The properety has lots of availability but the Diamond Desk refuses to book a room and convert it into a reward stay.

They claim there are now no capacity controls on awards. Simply calling them EDD and continuing to do business as usual is crap and if this is their intent we need to call them on it and not stop until they change the reality to match the words or drop the no capacity control claim.

My contention is that if demand is so extraordinary, how come there is plenty of vacancy? The Diamond Desk shrugs.
LOL.

Starwood actually doesn't have an EDD policy for award redemptions, just for the platinum override forced booking.
If Starwood hotels are selling standard rooms--at any price--through a Starwood channel and the rooms haven't been, say, bought up by the Olympics Committee, etc., then those rooms have to be made available for award nights.

So, if Hilton is using Starwood as a model for its no capacity controls, no blackout dates award redemption program, they may do something similar.

Cool - thanks for pointing that out. That's good to know.

Extraordinary demand dates are a huge black eye in the hilton honors program. Any property gets to declare them at will, and there is no appeal.

I have had extraordinary demand dates pulled on me when the hotel is wide open if I wanted to make a revenue res. My contention is that if demand is so extraordinary, how come there is plenty of vacancy? The Diamond Desk shrugs.How many times have they pulled this on you in the past 36 hours since the policy was changed?

I am in the same situation. The properety has lots of availability but the Diamond Desk refuses to book a room and convert it into a reward stay.If this has happened in the past 36 hours you need to email flyertalk@hilton.com and find out what's going on.

If this has happened in the past 36 hours you need to email flyertalk@hilton.com and find out what's going on.

Well it wasn't the Diamond Desk, but the regular HHonors reservations line pulled this on me yesterday (hotel has standard rooms for sale for New Year's Eve, but none available for reward redemption). I sent the details to the flyertalk email contact and will let everyone know what their position is as soon as I get a response.

The fact that they pull this on a holiday is, IMHO, a blackout date (or a capacity control if they ever actually booked some free nights that night). It is not an EDD, by definition, since the hotel is not even sold out of standard rooms.

1. DoubleTree Suites, Times Square
2. Week of Thanksgiving
3. When I called a few days ago, they didn't even know about the new "No Blackout" policy. This included a supervisor. I wanted to see if anyone had booked a previously unavailable hotel since the change.Try again ... looks like it's available now ...

Try again ... looks like it's available now ...

Nope, same thing. Available for $$$, but not points. A call to the Diamond Desk yesterday repeated the same message: "Extraordinary Demand Date, which is different from a blackout date."

Never mind that their own terms and conditions contradict this, as was pointed out by someone more articulate that me.

I do appreciate you looking, though.

Nope, same thing. Available for $$$, but not points. A call to the Diamond Desk yesterday repeated the same message: "Extraordinary Demand Date, which is different from a blackout date."

Never mind that their own terms and conditions contradict this, as was pointed out by someone more articulate that me.

I do appreciate you looking, though.I looked on slightly different dates last night after having looked earlier without thinking that it might only be a single night, it looks like it's the night before Thanksgiving that they're blacking out, probably because of the Macy's Thanksgiving Day period. That is BS if they are doing that, have you emailed them about this to get an answer?

Nope, same thing. Available for $$$, but not points. A call to the Diamond Desk yesterday repeated the same message: "Extraordinary Demand Date, which is different from a blackout date."

Never mind that their own terms and conditions contradict this, as was pointed out by someone more articulate that me.

I do appreciate you looking, though.

Along with emailing flyertalk@hilton.com as Beckles suggests, you might want to call the Diamond Desk one more time and ask them to read to you any and all references to EDD's that they can find. When it becomes clear from the text of the rules that EDD's have nothing to do with holding back free nights and only pertain to forcing paid reservations at SOLD OUT hotels, ask them to please make your reward reservation. If they refuse, ask for supervisor and repeat the process.

That is what I did for my New Year's reservation and, while I don't yet have satisfaction, I do have a supervisor who gets my point looking into it and escalating issue. In the mean time I also complained to flyertalk@hilton.com so we can at least hope for an explanation of why they are apparently being so non-compliant with the new T&C's and/or so deceptive in their new advertising.

When it becomes clear from the text of the rules that EDD's have nothing to do with holding back free nights and only pertain to forcing paid reservations at SOLD OUT hotels, ask them to please make your reward reservation. If they refuse, ask for supervisor and repeat the process.

Nothing the diamond desk ever read to me or said ever made me believe that EDD has anything to do with the hotel being sold out or oversold.

For the Super Bowl and New Years there are rooms to PAY for, but due to EDD, they are not reward rooms (and a diamond force is not supposed to work on EDD rooms).

From a franchisee and customer point of view, I can understand how EDD makes sense, used only for special occasions, which is the only time I've ever witnessed it actually applied.

I know several have said EDD has been blocked out for long periods of time, but I have never witnessed that, and for New York City specifically (as was mentioned) I can personally refute that the months of Nov and Dec are NOT all EDD in 2007. The only EDD dates I've seen is only two days during Thanksgiving (and that's only at some, not all, of the Hilton properties), and days around Christmas & New Years (give or take a few days).

(and yes I've had several conversations with the DD about how EDD is a blackout - but that's how it is, and as a customer I wish they didn't have them, but as a corporation its very understandable to have them within reason).

Nothing the diamond desk ever read to me or said ever made me believe that EDD has anything to do with the hotel being sold out or oversold.

For the Super Bowl and New Years there are rooms to PAY for, but due to EDD, they are not reward rooms (and a diamond force is not supposed to work on EDD rooms).

From a franchisee and customer point of view, I can understand how EDD makes sense, used only for special occasions, which is the only time I've ever witnessed it actually applied.

I, and I think others, could understand why a reward program might have such a policy. However, the terms and conditions that govern the HHonors program do not make an exception to reward availability for dates with extraordinary demand.

The terms apply this exception to the the policy of guaranteed reservations availability (in soldout situations) for Diamond members:
Guaranteed reservations availability at all HHonors hotels when reservations are made before midnight hotel local time, two or more days (48 hours) prior to intended arrival. Guarantee applies to only one room occupied by the Diamond VIP member and to reservations made with a valid credit card. Please note that this guarantee does not apply to rates - if a rate for which you are normally eligible is not available, your reservation will be subject to the hotel's prevailing rate for the accommodations requested. Please also note that in some instances, the guarantee may be subject to booking conditions such as length of stay requirements. In the event the Member does not arrive as scheduled, or does not call to cancel and obtain a cancellation number, the credit card will be billed for one night's room and tax. Reservations Guarantee applies to reservations made through Hilton Reservations and Customer Care or with the hotel directly, and does not apply during publicly recognized events which result in extraordinary room demand as determined solely by Hilton, such as during major sporting events, New Year's Eve, etc. The 48 hour reservations guarantee may periodically be restricted in Homewood Suites by Hilton hotels due to the extended stay nature of guest stays at the Homewood brand. The 48 hour guarantee does not apply to Hilton Maldives.

Under rewards, the T&C are as follows:
Hotel rewards are not subject to blackout dates or capacity controls. Hotel reward nights apply to standard rooms only, as defined by each hotel and subject to availability.

Nothing the diamond desk ever read to me or said ever made me believe that EDD has anything to do with the hotel being sold out or oversold.

For the Super Bowl and New Years there are rooms to PAY for, but due to EDD, they are not reward rooms (and a diamond force is not supposed to work on EDD rooms).

From a franchisee and customer point of view, I can understand how EDD makes sense, used only for special occasions, which is the only time I've ever witnessed it actually applied.

I know several have said EDD has been blocked out for long periods of time, but I have never witnessed that, and for New York City specifically (as was mentioned) I can personally refute that the months of Nov and Dec are NOT all EDD in 2007. The only EDD dates I've seen is only two days during Thanksgiving (and that's only at some, not all, of the Hilton properties), and days around Christmas & New Years (give or take a few days).

(and yes I've had several conversations with the DD about how EDD is a blackout - but that's how it is, and as a customer I wish they didn't have them, but as a corporation its very understandable to have them within reason).

You are just restating the practices which seem be based on no published policy. The only references I can find to EDD's come directly (or are shortened versions) from the HHonors T&C's, which specifically reference guaranteed reservations (not rates), which implies a sold out or overbooked hotel, otherwise the guaranteed reservations would be unnecessary:

Guaranteed reservations availability at all HHonors hotels when reservations are made before midnight hotel local time, two or more days (48 hours) prior to intended arrival. Guarantee applies to only one room occupied by the Diamond VIP member and to reservations made with a valid credit card. Please note that this guarantee does not apply to rates - if a rate for which you are normally eligible is not available, your reservation will be subject to the hotel's prevailing rate for the accommodations requested. Please also note that in some instances, the guarantee may be subject to booking conditions such as length of stay requirements. In the event the Member does not arrive as scheduled, or does not call to cancel and obtain a cancellation number, the credit card will be billed for one night's room and tax. Reservations Guarantee applies to reservations made through Hilton Reservations and Customer Care or with the hotel directly, and does not apply during publicly recognized events which result in extraordinary room demand as determined solely by Hilton, such as during major sporting events, New Year's Eve, etc. The 48 hour reservations guarantee may periodically be restricted in Homewood Suites by Hilton hotels due to the extended stay nature of guest stays at the Homewood brand. The 48 hour guarantee does not apply to Hilton Maldives.

I now see that they do include recurring holidays such as New Year's Eve, but I still see no reference to EDDs with regard to restricting free rooms when paid rooms are available.

Can you or the Diamond Desk provide anything current that references EDD's as a way to limit reward nights?

Reservations Guarantee applies to reservations made through Hilton Reservations and Customer Care or with the hotel directly, and does not apply during publicly recognized events which result in extraordinary room demand as determined solely by Hilton, such as during major sporting events, New Year's Eve, etc. The 48 hour reservations guarantee may periodically be restricted in Homewood Suites by Hilton hotels due to the extended stay nature of guest stays at the Homewood brand. The 48 hour guarantee does not apply to Hilton Maldives.

I now see that they do include recurring holidays such as New Year's Eve, but I still see no reference to EDDs with regard to restricting free rooms when paid rooms are available.

Can you or the Diamond Desk provide anything current that references EDD's as a way to limit reward nights?

Good research, please see the bold section of your own post.

The 48 hour reservations guarantee may periodically be restricted in Homewood Suites by Hilton hotels due to the extended stay nature of guest stays at the Homewood brand. The 48 hour guarantee does not apply to Hilton Maldives.



I didn't know about the Homewood restriction

Good research, please see the bold section of your own post.

:confused:

The quoted section of the T&C is part of the Diamond benefits and explicitly pertains to the guaranteed ability of Diamonds to make paid reservations, even at sold out hotels, subject to certain conditions and excluding EDD's.

I still see nothing that pertains to free nights.

I still see nothing that pertains to free nights.

It's because it ain't there.
Some people, though, have bought into a reason why HHonors might have such a policy and therefore apply it to everything.
I'm hoping the problems in the call center are similar to the problems we see sometimes with SPG--there's a problem with the way the rates are loaded and employees sometimes make up explanations that are neither true nor consistent with policy. They often try to be helpful in so doing, but, as we know, that isn't helpful.

It's because it ain't there.
Some people, though, have bought into a reason why HHonors might have such a policy and therefore apply it to everything.
I'm hoping the problems in the call center are similar to the problems we see sometimes with SPG--there's a problem with the way the rates are loaded and employees sometimes make up explanations that are neither true nor consistent with policy. They often try to be helpful in so doing, but, as we know, that isn't helpful.

I'm still hoping, too. But I am starting to wonder if this is really just more deceptive marketing BS after all.

I'm still hoping, too. But I am starting to wonder if this is really just more deceptive marketing BS after all.

Yeah, but if that were the case, why wouldn't they hide a line in the T&C to that effect? They control its content, after all.

No matter what, at this point I think it's too early to pass judgement on the program changes yet. It's interesting they announced the program so close to the actual implementation date, and it's not surprising to me that there may be some implementation and training issues to resolve. Almost as soon as this program was announced, some posters just assumed that Extraordinary Demand conditions applied to this program despite such conditions being contrary to the announcement itself. Now we see the Terms and Conditions are quite brief and unambiguous:
Hotel rewards are not subject to blackout dates or capacity controls. Hotel reward nights apply to standard rooms only, as defined by each hotel and subject to availability.

Now, some hotels may be putting in blackout dates on their own, but that's why I keep telling everyone when they run into a date that's being blocked to email Hilton to get an answer as to why that is the case.

Maybe I'm naive, but I think Hilton is going to get this right, but I think they need a little time to work the kinks out of the system also.

No matter what, at this point I think it's too early to pass judgement on the program changes yet. It's interesting they announced the program so close to the actual implementation date,
I wonder if they wanted to influence voting in the Freddies.

I wonder if they wanted to influence voting in the Freddies.If they really wanted to do that you'd think they would have gotten the change in right before voting started ...

If they really wanted to do that you'd think they would have gotten the change in right before voting started ...

Or at least read and answer related emails.

No matter what, at this point I think it's too early to pass judgement on the program changes yet. It's interesting they announced the program so close to the actual implementation date, and it's not surprising to me that there may be some implementation and training issues to resolve. Almost as soon as this program was announced, some posters just assumed that Extraordinary Demand conditions applied to this program despite such conditions being contrary to the announcement itself. Now we see the Terms and Conditions are quite brief and unambiguous:

Hotel rewards are not subject to blackout dates or capacity controls. Hotel reward nights apply to standard rooms only, as defined by each hotel and subject to availability.

Now, some hotels may be putting in blackout dates on their own, but that's why I keep telling everyone when they run into a date that's being blocked to email Hilton to get an answer as to why that is the case.

Maybe I'm naive, but I think Hilton is going to get this right, but I think they need a little time to work the kinks out of the system also.

I mean this sincererly -- I really admire your optimism regarding this program change.

What you interpret as being an unambiguous guarantee of getting a reward room whenever a hotel is not sold out, I read as a huge loophole for the hotel to limit the number of rooms offered for reward stays. If that were not the case, why even include the quoted second sentence? The first sentence says it all.

What you interpret as being an unambiguous guarantee of getting a reward room whenever a hotel is not sold out,
Not whenever it is not sold out, but only when it is not sold out of standard rooms.

Not whenever it is not sold out, but only when it is not sold out of standard rooms.

. . . and that's really my point. What is going to prevent a hotel from calling 80% of their rooms "Deluxe", 10% "Suites", and the remaining 10% "Standard"? That would be a very easy way to stay within the rules of this new program offering while limiting the number of reward stays.

I hope Hilton does not permit this, but they have left themselves an explicit opening to manipulate this program enhancement.

. . . and that's really my point. What is going to prevent a hotel from calling 80% of their rooms "Deluxe", 10% "Suites", and the remaining 10% "Standard"? That would be a very easy way to stay within the rules of this new program offering while limiting the number of reward stays.

I hope Hilton does not permit this, but they have left themselves an explicit opening to manipulate this program enhancement.And I have already said in another thread that is a potential loophole (heck, a hotel could not have any Standard Rooms), but I have a feeling that part of what we are not seeing is that Hilton requires every hotel to designate at least a certain percentage of its rooms as "Standard Rooms", if they do not do this then the entire policy is BS and I will be the first to raise holy heck over it. What would be interesting to know is what this percentage is. For instance, I can't imagine Hilton is dumb enough to allow every single Embassy Suites, Doubletree Suites, Hilton Suites, and Homewood Suites property to blackout dates by saying "We don't have any Standard Rooms, only Suites."

Regardless, I don't believe that clearly defined potential loophole really changes the unambiguous nature of the rule itself.

So, come early March, if any Hilton properties are selling Standard Rooms in Tampa for dollars for February 1, 2009 (Super Bowl Sunday in the host city for those wondering) we should be able to redeem HHonors points for them.

. . . and that's really my point. What is going to prevent a hotel from calling 80% of their rooms "Deluxe", 10% "Suites", and the remaining 10% "Standard"? That would be a very easy way to stay within the rules of this new program offering while limiting the number of reward stays.

I hope Hilton does not permit this, but they have left themselves an explicit opening to manipulate this program enhancement.

The concern about how rooms are classified is probably warranted, but what's going on now is far worse. Hilton's claims to the contrary not withstanding, available, standard rooms are currently being blacked-out for point redemption.

. . . and that's really my point. What is going to prevent a hotel from calling 80% of their rooms "Deluxe", 10% "Suites", and the remaining 10% "Standard"? That would be a very easy way to stay within the rules of this new program offering while limiting the number of reward stays.

I hope Hilton does not permit this, but they have left themselves an explicit opening to manipulate this program enhancement.

I understand your concern. However, this policy is worded almost identically to Starwood's policy, and it hasn't been a major problem over there -- my hope is the same will be true with Hilton.

I *am* left to wonder what benefit remains in my Diamond status, but that is another topic entirely.

I understand your concern. However, this policy is worded almost identically to Starwood's policy, and it hasn't been a major problem over there -- my hope is the same will be true with Hilton.

It may not be a "major" problem at Starwood, but if you read their forum, you will know that the "no blackout dates" promise they offer has been manipulated to their customers' detriment at times. It may not happen often, but if you are the one prevented from redeeming a reward, it can be very infuriating.

I received an initial response from flyertalk@hilton.com. They seem to understand the issue and are "awaiting a response from the appropriate executives" about what happens when the "rooms are currently available at a rate" on an extraordinary demand date.

They are hoping for a response and resolution by the end of the week.

In regards to the idea of making different rooms standard, deluxe, super deluxe - I think this will happen. I base it on the growing practice of hotels telling me I've been "upgraded" to a non-executive room and thus they won't provide me a breakfast certificate. I'm not exagerating when I say that one time I asked what was upgraded about my room and was told that it had "better lighting" than a normal room. This is happening mostly in Europe and in particular some of my "favorite" UK hilton hotels (favorite is sarcasm), but its also happening a few other places.

I'd expect the hotels to quickly figure out how to not allow reward reservations and follow the same tact.

Personally, my concern with this program is that for the top 2-3 percent of their properties this will have a huge impact - I don't think it will encourage more people to claim an award room in Pittsburgh, but I do think it will encourage more people to claim an award room in Rome, or Prague or Istanbul or Seychelles or Hawaii, etc. And as someone that accumulates points almost exclusively through hotel stays (and thus a hectic business schedule) - I am not able to make plans 12 months in advance to book award rooms - I can usually try about 2-3 months in advance if I'm lucky - we'll see how this plays out but I am not as hopeful as some others in terms of this "enhancement" for those that accumulate points through credit card usage.

I was the one that originally started this thread, and just received word from the hotel directly that they would NOT accommodate the request. I emailed them back referencing the terms and conditions, but I don't really expect it to go anywhere.

So, what would some of you do? Suck it up and pay the $600 for the one night in question, or pursue another avenue? We could stay elsewhere, but with two kids, really wanted the DoubleTree Suites.

So, what would some of you do? Suck it up and pay the $600 for the one night in question, or pursue another avenue? We could stay elsewhere, but with two kids, really wanted the DoubleTree Suites.

FIGHT! If we give up now, things will only get worse.
Who from the hotel got back to you? If it wasn't the GM, I'd go higher up the food chain.
Complain with this specific case to flyertalk@hilton.com.

FIGHT! If we give up now, things will only get worse.
Who from the hotel got back to you? If it wasn't the GM, I'd go higher up the food chain.
Complain with this specific case to flyertalk@hilton.com.

Consider me motivated! The person that responded was the Revenue Manager, so I will definitely try to reach the GM tomorrow. As a side note, she did respond to my reply, simply stating that the diamond desk would have to handle this. BS, as one of the Diamond Desk supervisors told me that the hotel was the only one that could do something.

I was just denied a reservation at a Hilton due to "Extraordinary Demand" for 6+ months from now. The hotel, of course, has plenty of rooms available for sale on its web site. I asked the DD to call the hotel but was cut off and redirected to a guest assistance voicemail message. I'll call again tomorrow during normal hours...

I tried to book at the Manchester Deansgate (admittedly when it was pretty full) for a Diamond force redemption. I was quoted extraordinary demand date and refused a room.

I then asked just what the point of Diamond was any more, given the "no blackout dates" policy. I was told that:-

* You get guaranteed availability 48 hours in advance (this was clearly not the case with the booking I attempted to make).

* "Golds no longer get upgraded at properties they only get free breakfast", this sounds suspiciously like BS to me.

My conclusion was that there is no point retaining Diamond this year.

* You get guaranteed availability 48 hours in advance (this was clearly not the case with the booking I attempted to make).
That's for PAID reservations and for that extraordinary demand dates do apply.

* "Golds no longer get upgraded at properties they only get free breakfast", this sounds suspiciously like BS to me.
That sounds suspicious, and silly, too--your new benefit is that other members get less. :rolleyes:

* "Golds no longer get upgraded at properties they only get free breakfast", this sounds suspiciously like BS to me.

My conclusion was that there is no point retaining Diamond this year.[/QUOTE]
---------------------

For some properties sounds like Gold might be better than Diamond!!! At least they are getting a free breakfast.

I believe someone pointed this out above, but I just looked for myself and verified -- the only place in the HH T&C (http://hhonors1.hilton.com/en_US/hh/terms.do#hotel_rewards) that the term "Extraordinary demand" is mentioned is with regard to the guaranteed reservations benefit.

The web site very clearly (and in super-large print) states this:You won't find reward blackout dates with Hilton HHonors® — just 2,900 hotels and the chance to earn points and airline miles at the same time. If a standard room is available, you can redeem points for it. An exotic escape has never been easier. With the above in mind, I called again today regarding my attempt at a reservation described a few posts ago. First I was told, "Extraordinary demand." I explained why that didn't apply. The T&C doesn't list that as a reason Then I was told that the whole hotel was sold out. I explained that they had plenty of rooms for sale on the Hilton web site.

I was put on hold for a very long time and ended up speaking to a supervisor who assured me that the Extraordinary Demand language also applied to the no blackout dates feature. Aside from the fact that that makes no sense in the context of, "If a standard room is available, you can redeem points for it," I couldn't find it anywhere on their web site. I pointed this out and was placed on hold again.

I then talked to guest assistance who claimed that the hotel had already met its 5% allocation of award rooms. I requested a diamond override. We'll see where that leads.

I then talked to guest assistance who claimed that the hotel had already met its 5% allocation of award rooms.
I sure hope that this employee just has no idea what they are talking about.
Somehow 5% does not equal no capacity controls, no blackout dates.

I sure hope that this employee just has no idea what they are talking about.
Somehow 5% does not equal no capacity controls, no blackout dates.Yeah, no kidding. Maybe the new policy is: No Blackout Dates (unless there are blackout dates)!

I sure hope that this employee just has no idea what they are talking about. Somehow 5% does not equal no capacity controls, no blackout dates.Exactly. But I'll wait until I hear back from them tomorrow as this guy was the first person to even offer to contact the hotel...

flyertalk@hilton.com rules!

They came through with a four night AXON for me 12/28/08-01/01/09 at the DT Times Square.

They also confirmed that they mean NO BLACKOUT DATES, period. Apparently they will allow properties to sell out all rooms to a third party on EDDs, then, of course, we'd be out of luck, but if the hotel is selling standard rooms, through Hilton, they will also have to offer free nights.

It may take a few more days for them to properly inform every property of their options on EDDs, but they are adamant that business as usual is not on of them.

They also confirmed that they mean NO BLACKOUT DATES, period.

apparently the Diamond desk doesn't see it that way:
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=785874

flyertalk@hilton.com rules!

They came through with a four night AXON for me 12/28/08-01/01/09 at the DT Times Square.

They also confirmed that they mean NO BLACKOUT DATES, period. Apparently they will allow properties to sell out all rooms to a third party on EDDs, then, of course, we'd be out of luck, but if the hotel is selling standard rooms, through Hilton, they will also have to offer free nights.

It may take a few more days for them to properly inform every property of their options on EDDs, but they are adamant that business as usual is not on of them.

I can't believe I missed this thread. My more recent experience with Diamond Desk repeated the mantra that hotels can set extraordinary demand dates with no awards available (whilst still selling paid stays in many rate categories), and even the Diamond Desk is unable to override the hotel. It seems the new "No Blackouts" policy is nothing more than marketing BS. :mad:

Diamond Desk also powerless (apparently) against hotels setting a ridiculous deposit requirement on awards of more than the rate at which I could get a paid room, and on "fully flexible" rates that are non-refundable and non-changeable by hotel policy.

More on my blog (http://theglobaltraveller.blogspot.com/2008/02/hilton-customer-unfriendly-shenanigans.html).

Email I received 2 days ago:

I am very sorry, but all the hotels in the immediate area of Peabody Place have declared extraordinary demand dates from November 3-11. This means we can not book any reservations at these hotels. The closest hotel offering rooms during the date range you requested is the Doubletree Memphis on Sanderlin Avenue. It is approx. 9 miles from the Hampton Inn Peabody Place. If you would like to book that location let us know. The hotel is sold out, but they have not declared extraordinary demands yet so we can do a special arrangement request.

Were you looking for a paid stay or an award stay? Extraordinary demand dates apply only with regard to the diamond guaranteed reservations benefit. If the hotel has standard rooms available for sale on the Hilton web site you can ask for an award room under the no blackout dates policy. If this is the case, you need to call back and ask again or escalate to the email address posted above.

flyertalk@hilton.com rules!

They came through with a four night AXON for me 12/28/08-01/01/09 at the DT Times Square.

They also confirmed that they mean NO BLACKOUT DATES, period. Apparently they will allow properties to sell out all rooms to a third party on EDDs, then, of course, we'd be out of luck, but if the hotel is selling standard rooms, through Hilton, they will also have to offer free nights.

It may take a few more days for them to properly inform every property of their options on EDDs, but they are adamant that business as usual is not on of them.

The dates I booked, 12/28/08-01/01/09 at the DT Times Square, are now available online to anyone for award reservations (four day min., same as for paid reservations), so HHonors came through on their no blackout date commitment in this case.

Well, it took about 10 days, but flyertalk@hilton.com came through, even showing me where to find a promotional coupon that saved a lot of points (and got us an extra night). I just looked on the website to confirm what someone mentioned yesterday and, sure enough, those dates can be booked now. Unfortunately, I had a conversation (okay, argument) with someone at the Diamond desk a few days ago, so hopefully they will get this "no blackout" thing down soon.

Thanks to everyone who gave me ideas on this. I really appreciate the help.