Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners) - Rumour: Lufthansa could take over BA

The Handelsblatt reports that Lufthansa may take over British Airways with LH being the senior partner.

More (in German): http://www.handelsblatt.com/News/Unternehmen/Industrie/_pv/_p/200038/_t/ft/_b/1383563/default.aspx/deutsche-airways.html

Feasible since the KLM Air France "merger" which it mentions.

Hope it happens.

"Lufthansa's three hubs in Germany". I bet the Swiss will love this part of the article.

BA and LH have very different cultures. Merging them might look interesting on paper but the difficulties of a German airline taking over the British flag carrier are just too big.

Nice topic so.

"Lufthansa's three hubs in Germany".

FRA
MUC
DUS

This merger fantasy is nothing new.
Nothing but a wishful thinking.

Fairly unlikely, I would have thought. AF taking over KL is not quite the same as LH taking over BA...

If BA doesn't deliver what it promises after the opening of LHR T5, I can see it happen.

Fairly unlikely, I would have thought. AF taking over KL is not quite the same as LH taking over BA...

Also a bit pointless when LH can very easily take over BD (assuming SMB likes the price) and get a significant amount of slots at LHR that way. Also will require significantly less capital than purchasing BA particularly at a time when banks don't really want to hand over great wads of cash.

BA and IB would be a great extension of the *A network. Hope it's gonna happen.

Fairly unlikely, I would have thought. AF taking over KL is not quite the same as LH taking over BA...

Not sure, if it is unlikely. Swissair and later LX were the biggest competitors of LH and the pride of Switzerland. Nobody would have said that it would be likely that LH would take over the Swiss national carrier.

We will see...

Not sure, if it is unlikely. Swissair and later LX were the biggest competitors of LH and the pride of Switzerland. Nobody would have said that it would be likely that LH would take over the Swiss national carrier.

We will see...

In fact SR had plans for a merger with BA back in the 1990s which were turned down by the Federal Council (Swiss Government) and LX wanted to join oneworld (came just a step short). LH had never been an option and was only considered when everything else had failed and a LH-friendly CEO was appointed to lead LX. And the Swiss were not happy about that (although now we are :D), especially because taxpayers had injected 2bn CHF into SR to keep it alive (not a Germany vs. Switzerland issue IMO).

Similarly, I believe BA will try to merge with everybody else (e.g. IB) before "surrendering" to LH. I don't see it happen unless something revolutionary happens in the market.

Not sure, if it is unlikely. Swissair and later LX were the biggest competitors of LH and the pride of Switzerland. Nobody would have said that it would be likely that LH would take over the Swiss national carrier.

We will see...


Well, you forgot to mention that the pride of Switzerland went bankrupt and had to ground all aircraft at one point. Sure, Swissair reemerged as Swiss, but going bankrupt kind of induces a severe loss of image I think. :D

How was Swiss doing financially prior to LH acquisition?

BA seems to be doing rather well at the moment (record profit and all that) .

Not sure, if it is unlikely. Swissair and later LX were the biggest competitors of LH and the pride of Switzerland. Nobody would have said that it would be likely that LH would take over the Swiss national carrier.

We will see...

You can't really compare SR size and reach to BA's!

I just saw a pig flying past the window here !

I just saw a pig flying past the window here !

yeah, chasing the donkey....:p

I also doubt that this is going to happen. Consolidation is imminent, yes, but it will start with the smaller airlines (OS, SK, LO etc.)

Altough 'Brithansa' does have a cling to it... :D

Well, as Basil Fawlty would say: "Whatever you do, don't mention the war...."

:)

Nice LH topic but totally OMNI material... :D

At least two antitrust reasons why I will not happen:

1.) They will have to give uo 50% of the slots on the CH-D-GB routes
2.) They will have to give a substantial slots on the NATL routes

Swiss, with all respect, is a tiny local carrier and even this created antitrust issues. A merger of LH and BA would create a factual monopoly on several routes and this will not happen.

Nice LH topic but totally OMNI material... :D

Ohh so true :D ... and as likely as my employer re-introducing biz class bookings for my long-hauls ;)

Talk like this annoys me. There a reason to riot!:mad:

Sure, Air France-KLM worked out & Lufthansa & Swiss, but they are much smaller link ups. The big 3 are the AF/KLM combo, Lufthansa & BA. The competition commision would have a hissy fit if LH even suggested it. & would LH be much better off? I doubt it. They can't really use the LHR slots if the British arm is to remain competitive. Where would this leave bmi?

& don't anyone start on AF/KLM taking over Alitalia. AZ were a struggling company who need to strong partners to get back on there feet. BA is NOT struggling & is profitable, expanding (sort of:p), replacing its fleet & doing very well. Willie Walsh has already said that BA will resist any takeover, & it's strength within the OneWorld alliance would prevent much happening.

FRA
MUC
DUS

Lufthansa does not agree with you:

http://www.lufthansa.com/online/portal/lh/us/info_and_services/at_the_airport?nodeid=1771230&l=en&cid=1000390

DUS is not a LH hub, ZRH is.

DUS is not a LH hub, ZRH is.

DUS is not a hub? Where's LH saying this? And IF they said this, why would it be true, given the incredible amount of misinformation that, by design, is coming from LH and any major airline for that matter?

So please provide factual proof that DUS can't possibly be considered a LH hub. That would also prove that the writer of the article is an idiot. Which means we can write to Handelsblatt demanding the firing of that so-called journalist. :D

While LH is at it... can you please take over Air Canada ^

Which means we can write to Handelsblatt demanding the firing of that so-called journalist. :D

Why stop there? Demand a public apology and even more important: Compensation for the trauma they have caused because of this... ;)

I think the Wolf was having a hard time finding an airline that has older F seats than LH itself :p

Is April's fools in January in Germany? ;)

Lufthansa does not agree with you:

http://www.lufthansa.com/online/portal/lh/us/info_and_services/at_the_airport?nodeid=1771230&l=en&cid=1000390

DUS is not a LH hub, ZRH is.

DUS might not be a large HUB like MUC and FRA of course but it definitely has some connecting traffic and that will further increase with the three longhoul flights. Also, it has plenty European flights that have feeder traffic from smaller domestic airports.

DUS might not be a large HUB like MUC and FRA of course but it definitely has some connecting traffic and that will further increase with the three longhoul flights. Also, it has plenty European flights that have feeder traffic from smaller domestic airports.

I agree, I will be flying into DUS from Toronto this summer. ^

At least two antitrust reasons why I will not happen:

1.) They will have to give uo 50% of the slots on the CH-D-GB routespossibly up to 50% on some routes, but definitely not 50% on average. Surely a divestment would only require at most the increment in market share to be divested, but usually less. The other question is whether many people would want to take on a combined BA-LH on these routes.
2.) They will have to give a substantial slots on the NATL routesWhy? On how many routes would they have such a strong market position that there was no competition from other European or American carriers?

DUS might not be a large HUB like MUC and FRA of course but it definitely has some connecting traffic and that will further increase with the three longhoul flights. Also, it has plenty European flights that have feeder traffic from smaller domestic airports.

I like DUS, nice airport and nice town.

But at the moment, I wouldn't call DUS a LH hub. With three long haul flights, maybe you can consider it to be a hub but right now it is an end of the line airport.

DUS is not a hub? Where's LH saying this? And IF they said this, why would it be true, given the incredible amount of misinformation that, by design, is coming from LH and any major airline for that matter?

So please provide factual proof that DUS can't possibly be considered a LH hub. That would also prove that the writer of the article is an idiot. Which means we can write to Handelsblatt demanding the firing of that so-called journalist. :D

I don't wish to incriminate any journalists of the venerable Handelsblatt, but if DUS is a hub, it is by far the smallest one:
LH Destinations
FRA 169
MUC 79
DUS 24

Additionally, there is currently only two long haul flights from DUS (the A319 premium services to Newark and Chicago), whereas there are many from both MUC and FRA.

I don't know how much connecting traffic there is in DUS, but it is probably very small compared to MUC and especially FRA.

Not sure, if it is unlikely. Swissair and later LX were the biggest competitors of LH and the pride of Switzerland. Nobody would have said that it would be likely that LH would take over the Swiss national carrier.
As theduke mentioned, SR was the pride of the Swiss patriots. LX was never loved and liked and kept getting bad financial press all the time. Even though IMO, it was a vastly less miserable airline than SR ever was.

The resistance to hawk off LX to LH was there but it was feeble.

I like DUS, nice airport and nice town.

But at the moment, I wouldn't call DUS a LH hub. With three long haul flights, maybe you can consider it to be a hub but right now it is an end of the line airport.

Totally agree. I was just throwing in arguments that the Handelsblatt could have meant. DUS doesn't show up on the Star Alliance HUB map (at least if I remember correctly), of course FRA and MUC do.

I am quite surprised about the difference in the number of destinations if one compares FRA and MUC :eek:

Why stop there? Demand a public apology and even more important: Compensation for the trauma they have caused because of this... ;)

Exactly. Given 100.000 readers might have wasted 5 minutes each with the article, we are talking about 500.000 wasted minutes of lifetime. Almost one year. :D

Exactly. Given 100.000 readers might have wasted 5 minutes each with the article, we are talking about 500.000 wasted minutes of lifetime. Almost one year. :D
Not to mention the time spent posting and reading messages on FT :o
BA 45 : LH 35 :td:

I like DUS, nice airport and nice town.

But at the moment, I wouldn't call DUS a LH hub. With three long haul flights, maybe you can consider it to be a hub but right now it is an end of the line airport.
Lufthansa does not consider DUS a hub:

Getting to our hubs (http://www.lufthansa.com/online/portal/lh/de/info_and_services/from_to_airport?l=en&nodeid=1771086&cid=18002)

As for that waste-of-paper article the BA-LH story is as solid information as ZRH is a German city. :D

LH Destinations
FRA 169
MUC 79
DUS 24


Don't forget the Lufthansa Regional flights and a few code shares - I have come to 49 LH destinatons from DUS according to the time table.
Not that "end of the line" after all...

Lufthansa does not consider DUS a hub:


You mean they didn't update their website?
Now, that's unheard of. That has never happened before.

Don't forget the Lufthansa Regional flights and a few code shares - I have come to 49 LH destinatons from DUS according to the time table.
Not that "end of the line" after all...

Well - so do FRA and MUC. In fact LH Cityline has 17 destinations in DUS, 24 in FRA and a whopping 50 in MUC.
Plus there are a few additional codeshare destinations in all of these airports, but that doesn't cahnge the overall picture. The network in DUS is significantly smaller than FRA or MUC. And every single destination from DUS is also flown from FRA (except Newcastle), always with a higher frequency (sometimes even double or triple).

In spite of there undoubtedly being some connecting traffic I think DUS is not a LH hub.