MilesBuzz! - Randy picks the best credit card plans to offer air miles cheaply

Probably one of the most common questions I get asked is: What is the best credit card plan that offers air mile credits plus the lowest APR?

The unpleasant truth is there's almost no such thing, these days, as "low APR and the most rewards." If you want the best miles, you are going to have to pay for them. Now, with that being said, I do have a great strategy for you. But, I am warning you, this is not for the faint at heart. If you are at all queasy, stop reading now! For those of you with jet fuel in your blood and miles on your mind, continue...
http://misc.biztravel.com/content/news_and_views/miles/miles.htm

Good article and quite interesting. However, I notice that Randy didn't mention the mileage caps that many of these cards have. I did find one that, for small business owners (or the self-employed among us) has a higher cap. The Citibank AAdvantage Business Card has a cap of 150,000 miles a year, as opposed to the 60-100K that most have. It's a pretty good deal. My good friend who has a business loves it. The application number is 1-888-66-APPLY and offers 7,500 miles as a sign-up incentive.

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I wish I were 1,000 miles away

Randy Petersen said:
Now for the low fee argument. I know many people that simply won’t pay the $55-$85 or more fee to get a frequent flyer credit card, preferring to go with a low cost card. Fine, but you won’t find a great return on those cards if any benefits at all.


How about the Sheraton/Starwood Optima. No annual fee (so you are saving $55-$85 every year). First year complimentary Starwood gold status. 1000 point bonus on signup. 1 mile per dollar charged to the card. 5K bonus miles on transfer of 20K throughout the life of the card (not just the first year). Transfer to almost all domestic airlines.

[This message has been edited by PG (edited 10-21-2000).]

As PG notes, this SPG Optima surely gets my vote for the best CC "deal" considering along with the bonus, there is no fee & superb flexibility! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Also, Smart Money recently ran a little blurb, albeit neglecting miles, on how to find the best CC!:
http://www.smartmoney.com/ask/index.cfm?story=20001009

BTW- If comparing cards and rates, this may also be useful to you:
http://www.smartmoney.com/debt/calculator/index.cfm?story=creditcard

[This message has been edited by doc (edited 10-13-2000).]

Not is the U S Airways card issued by Bank of America a great deal at 1.2 miles per dollar but if you can place a lot of spending on the card, it pays to get the Platinum card because the mileage earned is unlimited. In addition, the promo currently offered (and mentioned on another thread) from American Express Optima / Delta is a very sweet deal. Finally, the Starwood Optima card is very nice because it is so flexible (no blackouts at their hotels)

Have to agree with PG and doc! Sheraton Optima is the way to go. The hotel rewards aren't bad either!

My vote goes to Shearton/Starwood AmEx Optima. It one of the most flexible points as well; hotel stays or one of its many airlines partner FF miles.

Only downside is that it's capped at 60,000 pts/yr for those higher spenders.

Lastly, don't overlook CompuBank (http://www.compubank.com/index.cfm?affinity=14027)'s Visa checkcard which earns ClickRewards miles. It's one of two checkcard that gives you FF miles that I'm aware of. It's good for everyday small purchases such as groceries, gas, etc...

You can still get $50 sign up cash bonus if you sign up via Spree.com (http://www.spree.com/default.asp?x=valueconsume)

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For money savings ideas & tips check & FF miles bonus for finance & auto buying check out ValueConsumer.com (http://www.valueconsumer.com)

[This message has been edited by DH (edited 10-13-2000).]

I agree with DH about the Compubank Card. I know someone who used the last Clickrewards Starwood promotion to get an effective 2.5 miles per dollar with that card.

This is not the first time that people have recommended the Starwood card in FT in response to one of Randy's published articles.

One thing I didn't notice in Randy's article was bonus features of Airline co-branded cards. I have the Alaska Platinum Visa and it's the only card I know of that gives you a first class upgrade cert. As well as a 50% off cert. every year that you renew the card. Cost $75. Do the other airline cards give bonuses for purchasing airline tickets with their credit cards? Alaska gives 2 miles for every $ spent on an Alaska Airline ticket.

I was surprised Randy didn't mention the 3,000-10,000 mile bonuses offered for some of the cards. That, to me, is the biggest draw for signing up for a C.C. If you can get 10,000 miles as a bonus (UA, Delta, American have had such offers over the past year or two, and Diners has the 12K offer), then paying a $50 or so fee is worth it, at least for the first year.

The earnings cap on First USA's UA Mileage Plus card is waived for elite FFs (Premier and higher).

I agree with the SPG promoters for two reasons: one mentioned already and one not.

1. Fees. Although Randy discounts fees, I think they matter. For example, if it takes you one year to charge enough for a trip, that "free" trip could cost $50-$150. The Amex SPG makes the trip really free.

2. The ability to "flush" orphan miles. I have read many threads suggesting to get rid of orphan miles by reducing balances (e.g., buying magazines, using Milepoint.com). But by reducing balances, you usually get a redemption rate of 2 cents/mile or less.

With SPG, you can top off nearly any account and get three benefits:
a. Clear out the account
b. Get a good redemption rate, and
c. Not have to worry about finding obscure ways to get rid of the miles.

The only SPG drawback is that you have to get a Visa/MC since Amex isn't accepted everywhere.

Remember on Citibank AAdvantage cards there is no mileage cap if you are a Gold, Plat, or EXP with American Airlines.

From credit cards that will get you into virtually unbookable restaurants, to exclusive betting hotlines and concierge care, it is a different world.
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/10/08/stimonnws01012.html

All you Optima fans, maybe I missed something, but it looked to me (and so said the title) like Randy was talking about MILEAGE-EARNING cards not necessarily hotel points.

You can get miles from a Starwood Optima! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

20K SPG (hotel) pts = 25K miles! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Yes the Sheraton/Starwood points can be used for airline transfers (1 pt = 1 mile, subject to some minimum transfer requirements). It is even better than an airline affinity card, since you get a choice of airlines. Also you can time the transfers - which is important since many airlines now have expiration policies which are 3 years after last activity. With the Starwood Optima you can ensure that none of your mileage expires.

I am aware that you can get miles by converting hotel points. My point, however, was that in this article Randy was focusing on cards that earn miles directly and not the entire gamut of ways to get miles from cards. Some people seemed to imply that Randy had "missed something" by not talking about these other cards, and I think that is a bit unfair given the apparent focus of this specific article.

[This message has been edited by TravelWeary (edited 10-16-2000).]

Only time I'll consider annual fee affiliate credit is when there's a big promotion.

In the past, I signed up AAdvantage MC for 10,000 miles and 1 mile/$ for balance transfer; I received total 26,000 miles for $50 fee (10K miles for sing up bonus & 16K miles for balance transfer; I got the double transfer miles thanks to a Citibank's goof up).

Last year, when AmEx DL card was offering 20K bonus miles, I took the bait too. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

In above cases the annual fee was worth paying for and I didn't renew those cards this year.

Make sure to wait for a good promotion. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Otherwise, Sheraton/Starwood AmEx Optima card all the way!

Lastly, Diners Club (http://www.specialoffer.com/dinersclub/welcome.cgi?affilID=sodc00042) still offers 12,000 sign up bonus for $80(?) annual fee and it has more airlines partners than Starwood.


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For money savings ideas & tips check & FF miles bonus for finance & auto buying check out ValueConsumer.com (http://www.valueconsumer.com)

Originally posted by TravelWeary:
I am aware that you can get miles by converting hotel points. My point, however, was that in this article Randy was focusing on cards that earn miles directly and not the entire gamut of ways to get miles from cards. Some people seemed to imply that Randy had "missed something" by not talking about these other cards, and I think that is a bit unfair given the apparent focus of this specific article.

[This message has been edited by TravelWeary (edited 10-16-2000).]

Randy had mentioned for example the webmiles.com credit card. So the omission of the Starwood card seems significant.

I agree. Just can't figure out why he left out SPG AmEx and Diner Club cards. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif

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For money savings ideas & tips check & FF miles bonus for finance & auto buying check out ValueConsumer.com (http://www.valueconsumer.com)

OK, I didn't know that the Webmiles.com credit card gave out hotel points that would then have to be converted to miles like SPG and other Optima cards. I honestly don't know anything about Webmiles, but by its name it sounded like it would give out miles. My mistake, obviously.

TravelWeary I was responding to your statement - Randy was focusing on cards that earn miles directly . The webmiles card does not give hotel points. The card gives points which then have to be converted to discounts or airline tickets (with a 14 day advance purchase). It is a card which does not earn airline miles. By that yardstick the Starwood Optima offers airline miles while the webmiles.com card does not offer miles directly or indirectly (at least for your purchases - you might get miles for your award flight - but no miles for say a $1500 purchase).

Also Randy mentioned other cards like the ones from WellsFargo and CapitalOne.

Hey, PG. Point taken again. I've tried to say I made a mistake and I'm sorry, so what do you need to call a truce here?

But...I still say SPG and the other Optima AMEX cards don't fit in the same category as say Capital One. This is MY opinion ONLY. Please don't let it bother you if you don't agree with me. Seriously. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by TravelWeary (edited 10-16-2000).]

TravelWeary - I am sorry if it looks like I'm attacking you. I am not, and if appears so I am really sorry.

[This message has been edited by PG (edited 10-16-2000).]

Along these lines, what are the downfalls of signing up for cards only to get the initial bonus?

No problem at all, PG. I think toadman is right (although as an AS fan I am prejudiced), but the AS Plat VISA is such a good deal with its annual renewal perks. For the annual fee of $75, I would buy the bonus pack alone that comes with this card. Upgrade certs, club passes, anniversary miles and the $50 companion cert which alone makes the deal worthwhile.
As far as dingo's question, I'm sure there are horror stories out there, but my experience is actually good. I signed up for the Marriott VISA several years ago for the point bonus and got comped to Gold (now silver). I dropped the card after the first year, but every year since, they've continued to comp me to this level.

There are two categories of "miles" that are offered here in the marketplace and here are some pros and cons I came up with.

1. "real"(?) miles - can be transferred to FF accounts. Any of airlines credit cards, SPG AmEx, ClickRewards, AmEx MR, Diners Club, and others are in this category. Pros: miles can be transferred to respective FF programs. No advance booking is required (as long as award seats available). Miles can be used for upgrade. Cons: Award tickets do not earn miles. Awards are capacity controlled.

2. "pseudo"(?) miles - miles here are used as a unit to represent a value. WebMiles, MileSource, CapitalOne, and MBNA NEA card are in this category. Pro: Tickets are bought/paid thus earn miles. Since these are paid tickets, they may not capacity controlled. Con: Miles have no usefullness outside its program. "Award ticket" require advance booking and its miles can not be used for upgrade. With continuing .com shake outs, some companies may fold leaving their miles useless.

PG and I are referring to category 1 cards. No offense to people who prefer category 2 cards. Each person should evaluate what he/she wants and make a decision accordingly.

My 2 cents. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

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For money savings ideas & tips check & FF miles bonus for finance & auto buying check out ValueConsumer.com (http://www.valueconsumer.com)

DH,
The NEA card gives you points that can be redeemed for a particular dollar value...(i.e. 35,000 points = $1000 ticket). You're right in this regard.

BUT did you know that you can upgrade to business or first class by paying the difference??? (if a Europe biz class ticket costs $1200, you pay the extra $200, since they give you $1000 credit). You can even use your airline upgrade certificates on the ticket, since it's actually a PURCHASED ticket.

The NEA card points can also be redeemed for car rentals & hotel stays! The redemption levels for destinations is also the BEST seen.

THIS MAKES THE MBNA NEA CARD THE BEST CARD THIS SIDE OF THE SPG.

WAIT...the column for Biztravel WAS NOT meant to be an all emcompassing review of credit cards nor a slection of the "Best." It was only designed as an answer and overview to the question that a person asked me. Al to be limited within around 800 words. It is a topic far too complicated to explain in one small question, so I hope that none of you are mislead by this snapshot. Also, because of space I wasn't able to include my normal warnings to never spend credit for miles sake.......the advice only pertains to those who have make a decision to buy and now only need advice on which is the more convenient way to pay......

Dingo,

In response to your question about signing up just to get the bonus, that's fine if you are aware of a few points:

1. Every time you apply for credit, whether you are approved or not it goes on your credit report and this can affect whether or not you are approved next time. Too many appls are a warning signal to creditors. Even if you close the account as soon as the miles post

2. If you do get the card and then use it once or never use it, that open line is on your credit report and can affect any future appls. Try applying for a mortgage and every card you forgot you had and the availbale line is counted in your possiblility of "going bad" on the new credit line.

Just some thoughts http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


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I wish I were 1,000 miles away

As good as Starwood Optima is.. there are some draw backs:

1.) They define the cycle (payment date)... so you can have a due date of the 21 of the month or the 7th.... Not the best if you are using it for business.

2.) The grace period is small.. I beleive 20-21 days... again, not too great if using it for business......

My choice is the Diners Club... since you can use points to renew (if you want).. the fee is not too bad when you can transfer points to miles on most airlines.. and you get 2 BILLING Cycles to transfer.....

Again, Diners is my choice for Business expenses... but since Diners (and not as badly AmEx) is not accepted everywhere in the US, I have the Marriott Visa as my back up (no fee the first year).. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Oh well my 2 cents http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

And now Starwood is set to soon debut a new Optima card as well! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

What are the details of this card? I don't see anything on their web site.

This is mainly directed at Family Flyer's comments above, but maybe anyone could help me here. Most comments were directed at how great the Starwood Optima card is, but like Family Flyer mentioned, AMEX isnt accpted everywhere so the Starwood Visa would be the better call. What I want to know is what the main differences are between the those two cards (the Starwood Optima and Visa). Any help would be appreciated. I've come to realize that the $55 I'm paying a year for my CitiBank World Mastercard is too much when there's a free one out there!
Thanks!

Details are supposedly forthcoming in thenext few weeks, dingo! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Is there any way to read the linked posts mentioned in this thread? With the exception of the Sunday Times (UK) article, all other links go to "page no longer available" or some similar notation.

Thanks!

Starwood doesn't have a visa card

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DtG

Unfortunately compubanks relationship with clickrewards ended as part of the dot com fall several months ago. Then compubank was sold to net bank as well. So no longer any points available.

Also the united card allows unlimited miles for gold and 100k members.

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Robert

There is one cash back credit card worth considering. The Fleet Cash Rebate Card, if you go through their terms and conditions and calculate your return, you can get a true return of 1.65%. That is about the return I get by selling earned award tickets on ebay at $400/ticket. Also it's a VISA card, so it's accepted everywhere.

You can find more detail on this card on this page. This page also has a calculator that shows you how much cash back you get based on your own annual spending level.

Here is the fleet rebate card details (http://www.hotdealz.com/fleetcard.htm)

The new Hilton HHonors Platinum Visa is the answer. It's free. http://www.hhonorscard.com/

Since he won't disclose, I will:

ferret is selling again!

If you use his link, you are going through hotdealz.

ferret is not giving a testimonial, but driving traffic to a merchant site.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by scotty00:
What I want to know is what the main differences are between the those two cards (the Starwood Optima and Visa</font>

To expand on dgordon's response ... There is only one Starpoints card and it's an Amex. As alluded to above, this card is supposed to be changed by mid-June.

There's been a lot of speculation in other forums about the changes, but nobody knows for sure. Something that definitely will not change (according to Randy) is Starwood's relationship with Amex. The new card, sadly, will not become a Visa.

Some folks like Amex! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Anything new here anyone?

No Fee Amtrak Mastercard ---&gt; United or Continental Freq. Flyer Points!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum112/HTML/000192.html

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by doc:
Some folks like Amex! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Anything new here anyone?

No Fee Amtrak Mastercard ---&gt; United or Continental Freq. Flyer Points!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum112/HTML/000192.html</font>

Too bad Amtrak doesn't transfer points to AA miles http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by doc:
Anything new here anyone?
</font>

Yes, the new GoldPoints MBNA Visa card. No annual fee, and earns 3 points per dollar, or 6/dollar at GoldPoints locations like TGIFridays, Radisson, etc. A key here is to have a Radisson-branded GoldPoints account which you "attach" to the card (from www.radisson.com (http://www.radisson.com)). GoldPoints in these accounts convert -- automatically if you wish -- to 10 or so different airlines at a ratio of 4 points to 1 mile, so using the card nets .75 miles per dollar spent. Not bad for no annual fee... (A non-Radisson GP account converts to 3 airlines at 10 points for a mile.)

Links to details on the card are on the GP website at www.goldoints.com (http://www.goldpoints.com).


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An infrequent flyer trying to change that by earning my miles via alternate methods!
and webmaster at http://www.RewardsLookup.com

I'm always amazed no one ever talks about the Traveler Rewards Program (I think that's what it's called, anyway; I've had the card quite a while) offered through what's now the CitiBank MasterCard (used to be Quicken). Fee of $50 or so; no initial points.

The advantage is that $100 vouchers are earned for each $6K in purchases. Combine four for a totally free domestic ticket, or use four against the cost of an internat'l ticket.

Or use the vouchers incrementally. When air fares are cheap, say a fare around $225 r/t to your destination, just redeem 2 vouchers ($12K in purchases), and pay the remainder as a charge. Or pay the ticket with 3 vouchers.

In any event, the trip earns frequent flyer miles! Other slight (to me) drawback: ticket must be booked through their travel agency for $15/fee per transaction (not per ticket).

Works for me!

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It's not a perfect world.

I have to laugh. I too use the Quicken Visa (citibank or whatever they want to call themselves...)

I booked a RT trip using 8 certs (4 for me 4 for my wife) going to Pairs. The total for the flight was $420 or something like that. So, in a nutshell, we paid $40 to go to europe.

So I get on the phone with the Quicken travel folks and after telling them what all 8 cert numbers are, the agent remarked, "Wow, $40 to fly to Paris." Which I quickly and humorfuly retorted, "No, not exactly. I paid $48,040 to go to Europe.".

She laughed....

To add to the previous post...

I also picked up AA double miles. Wheee! 12,000+ miles for $40! (or $48,040 whichever way you look at it).

Starwood card is now going to charge $30, correct? Is that deterring anyone?

My Starwood annual fee kicks in in December. Although $30 isn't a huge fee to pay for this card, I will certainly look elsewhere to compare cards before I pay the fee.

If you spend $25000 using an airline mile credit card, you earn 25000 miles which is one roundtrip ticket. If you spend $25000 using the Juniper 2% cash rebate credit card, you earn $387 cash! If you can spend $30,625 in a year, you will get $500 CASH!

Spend $12,000/year = $128 cash rebate
Spend $24,000/year = $368 cash rebate
Spend $30,625/year = $500 cash rebate

The Juniper cash rebate mastercard has no annual fee, airline mile cards will charge you at least $40 for annual fee.

I would go for the cash rebate card since it reward you with cash not miles or points. There are many "upto 2% cash rebate" credit card. The Juniper cash rebate card is the best cash rebate card on the market, it gives out the highest cash rebate! The one from Farm Bureau Bank, also called "upto 2% rebate card" only earn $75 for $10000 spent.

there is a convenient credit card cash reward calculator you might want to take a look. It helps you find out how much rebate you can expect with various cash rebate cards base on your own spending level, just follow the link below.

info on the Juniper Cash Rebate MasterCard (http://www.hotdealz.com/CashRebateCalculator.html)


[This message has been edited by Dennis Wong (edited 01-19-2002).]

Thru the years I've had most of the cards mentioned above (and I still have the Starwood Amex and Diners cards). In my opinion one worthy card that is overlooked is the Southwest Visa issued thru First USA. You receive 1 SW flight credit for each $1K in purchases, after 16 flight credits you receive two 1-way Southwest Rapid Rewards certificates. The nice thing about these certificates is that they are VERY LIQUID as there is a blank space where you can write in the passenger's name so anyone can use them - much like the old Northwest Worldperks Fly-Rights that went by the wayside several years ago - and there are absolutely no capacity controls so if there is an unsold seat on the plane the voucher can be used.

Now I'm well aware that these Southwest Rapid Rewards certificates - like all frequent flyer awards - aren't supposed to be bought/sold/bartered but the fact remains that there is a HUGE market for them and if you know what you are doing you can clear at least $330 for the two 1-ways, this can be viewed as getting a little more than a 2% rebate on all of the card's purchases. If my memory serves me correctly the annual fee is $35.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by emaij:
Starwood card is now going to charge $30, correct? Is that deterring anyone?</font>

I also don't see any mention of the comped Gold status for the first year either.
http://www25.americanexpress.com/cards/Fmacfservlet?6/20/b/3/0/005141504239/20/n&from=0

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by scotty00:
I also don't see any mention of the comped Gold status for the first year either.
</font>

Instead of comping Gold status, they give you "Preferred Plus" status, which is under Gold. With "Preferred Plus", you still have a chance for a room upgrade, and you get the late 4pm check-out, but you don't get the 3 Starpoints per dollar spent at Starwood properties (plus a 4th point if using Starpoints Amex) like Golds do.

[This message has been edited by anthonyanthony (edited 01-05-2002).]

dupe

[This message has been edited by anthonyanthony (edited 01-05-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by emaij:
Starwood card is now going to charge $30, correct? Is that deterring anyone?</font>

It shouldn't deter anyone who utilizes the card's benefits (Starpoints, specifically), given that they can far outweigh a $30 fee.

Even if one charges only $1500 to the card over the course of a year, one can garner benefits whose value exceeds $30.

I don't shy away from a card based on annual fee alone...unless one compares an annual fee to the value one would likely obtain from the perk(s) associated w/ the card, one is not seeing the true value of the card--only the initial expenditure associated w/ it...the number cruncher in me sees that as an equation for which an equal sign is being ignored, & a klieg light is being focused on only one variable--yet the "value"-based decision proceeds, nonetheless...

[This message has been edited by ILTE_Miles (edited 01-06-2002).]

the fleet fusion card has no annual fee and let you earn one US/Canada roundtrip ticket with no blackout date for everything $25000 spent. the ticket's value cannot exceed $500.

Umberellabank.com has a great air, rental, hotel card for FREE. Redemption cap is 2%+ on the airfare and YES you can earn frequent flier miles with the bought ticket. ONLY barrier is that miles expire after 5 years if unused and a 10,000 mile per month cap.....Check them out.

The other 2 cards in my wallet is Starwood & Amtrak.

[This message has been edited by Wolverine (edited 01-07-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Wolverine (edited 01-07-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dennis Wong:
If you spend $25000 using an airline mile credit card, you earn 25000 miles which is one roundtrip ticket. If you spend $25000 using the Juniper 2% cash rebate credit card, you earn $387 cash! If you can spend $30,625 in a year, you will get $500 CASH!

Spend $12,000/year = $128 cash rebate
Spend $24,000/year = $368 cash rebate
Spend $30,625/year = $500 cash rebate

The Juniper cash rebate mastercard has no annual fee, airline mile cards will charge you at least $40 for annual fee.

I would go for the cash rebate card since it reward you with cash not miles or points. the Juniper cash rebate card is the best cash rebate card on the market.

there is a convenient credit card cash reward calculator you might want to take a look. It helps you find out how much rebate you can expect with various cash rebate cards base on your own spending level, just follow the link below.

info on the Juniper Cash Rebate MasterCard (http://www.hotdealz.com/CashRebateCalculator.html)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ferret:
[B]There is one cash back credit card worth considering. The Fleet Cash Rebate Card, if you go through their terms and conditions and calculate your return, you can get a true return of 1.65%. That is about the return I get by selling earned award tickets on ebay at $400/ticket. Also it's a VISA card, so it's accepted everywhere.

You can find more detail on this card on this page. This page also has a calculator that shows you how much cash back you get based on your own annual spending level.

Here is the fleet rebate card details (http://www.hotdealz.com/fleetcard.htm)</font>


I dunno, is Dennis Wong Ferret (who is AKA Pozilia) or is Ferret just plagiarizing Dennis Wong?? http://frequentflier.com/cgi-local/index.cgi?read=18058
In any event, it's nice to know who might have an ulterior motive for their advice...

No vested interest here, but if you'd like a cash back card @ straight 2% back (35k=$700 within 3 years or less) try this: http://www.farmbureaubank.com/ They'll even give you 2500 points to start with...

FWIW, at the chat last evening Randy noted that he felt that the Starwood Amex was about as good as it gets these days, and he also liked the AAdvantage Gold CC!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by doc:
FWIW, at the chat last evening Randy noted that he felt that the Starwood Amex was about as good as it gets these days, and he also liked the AAdvantage Gold CC! </font>

I missed the chat but find it interesting that Randy recommends the Starwood card. I had pretty much reached the same conclusion, based on the very good exchange rate of Starpoints to airline miles -- one to one, or, if you redeem 20,000 points, you get 25,000 miles. (Plus, Starwood has some good new combo airmiles/hotel awards!) In such uncertain times, it's prudent to have a "currency" like Starpoints that can be so favorably exchanged for so many different things.

Kathy

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by doc:
FWIW, at the chat last evening Randy noted that he felt that the Starwood Amex was about as good as it gets these days, and he also liked the AAdvantage Gold CC! </font>

Great! I have both and I'm all set! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif



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mailto:ahfang@earthlink.netahfang@earthlink.net</A>

On the subject of the "Quicken Visa/Mastercard", I note on their www site that one $100 voucher is obtained for each $8,000 in spending rather than the $6,000 mentioned above. Have the rules changed or are the above posters "grandfathered" in under a more generous plan?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by scotty00:
...AMEX isnt accpted everywhere so the Starwood Visa would be the better call. What I want to know is what the main differences are between the those two cards (the Starwood Optima and Visa)...</font>
There is no Starwood Visa. I wish. When I asked Starwood Lurker earlier this year if one was a future possibility, he said "The short answer is NO". The free VISA that I use is the Hilton HHonors Platinum from Citibank USA. But it's only 2 points for each $1 spent (3 points if spent at Hilton) and it takes 85,000 points for a domestic ticket.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by biff:

I wish. When I asked Starwood Lurker earlier this year if one was a future possibility, he said "The short answer is NO". The free VISA that I use is the Hilton HHonors Platinum from Citibank USA. But it's only 2 points for each $1 spent (3 points if spent at Hilton) and it takes 85,000 points for a domestic ticket.</font>


Biff I have the HHonor card as well, i got it for the 10k bonus...but never use it. I recommend you to use the Starwood eventhough it aint no Visa....many many places do take AMEX. With 85k points for a tkt...you can use 20,000 for a free tkt.So if you divide 85k/2=$42,500 or if you use the card for Hilton it will still be 85k/3=$28333! And 42500-20030=$22470 | 28333-20030=$8303

So you will spend $22470 less to get a free tkt..and $8303 if you used your HH on all Hilton hotels (which is very unlikely!)

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mailto:ahfang@earthlink.netahfang@earthlink.net</A>

[This message has been edited by afang (edited 01-18-2002).]

Seems like a good strategy would be to use the Hilton Amex only for HHonors stays (earning 5 points per dollar spent); use the Starwood Amex for everything else that accepts Amex; and have at least one mile- or point- earning Visa/Mastercard to use at places that don't take Amex.

Kathy

I'm keeping my Starwood Amex & won't have to pay the $30 fee until next year. Thirty bucks isn't too much to ask considering that they've given me several free 5000-point mileage transfer bonuses, plus other valuable promotions and good customer service.

Thanks afang and Kathy. I forgot to mention that I use the Hilton Visa only as backup to my Starwood Amex, following your very compelling logic.

I guess what we many of us want is the best deal on a free Visa card, even if infrequently used.

Amex is presnetly being accepted at more and more places these days and so this issue is increasingly far less important, IMHO.

Again, FWIW, Hilton also has a VISA! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

BTW, I too have a Hilton Amex!

THE JOY OF MILES: FOR CREDIT CARD MILES, JUST SAY "CHARGE IT"

Next to flying, charging purchases is one of the most common ways to earn miles. But how do you know which credit card to choose?
Frequent flier expert Tim Winship looks at the pros and cons of each card type in the latest installment of The Joy of Miles.

http://rd.SmarterLiving.com/rd/?r=da071102.col1

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by afang:
Too bad Amtrak doesn't transfer points to AA miles http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif</font>

Effective June 1, Midwest Express (YX) miles can be used on AA flights. (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum140/HTML/000243.html)

Amtrak will transfer to YX. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

In fact, with new partnerships, all the majors are covered via UA, CO, and YX:Miles --&gt; Works on
UA --&gt; UA, US, DL
CO --&gt; CO, NW, soon DL
YX --&gt; YX, Frontier, soon AA


[This message has been edited by Rut Dog (edited 03-01-2003).]

My use of credit is air tight (for me anyway. Everyone's spending habits are different, of course)

I. Wife uses Delta AmEx for all gas/groceries (she spends $200-plus every trip to the grocery store, so the double miles add up fast)

II. I use same Delta AmEx acct for all gas, $50 in stamps every trip to USPS and the occasional trip to Home Depot. PLUS, AmEx refunded my $85 annual fee (which I had already paid them) just because I wrote them a nice letter. Thanks AmEx http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

III. United Visa is my backup (couldn't resist the $15K sign-up bonus). Lately, I'm using my United card for restaurants as well and the United 3-5-7 Idine bonus)

IV. My wife currently has an old Visa that doesn't produce miles or cash rebates or anything (but I'm probably going to use the current United Visa referral get her one. This will give me an extra 5K bonus in addition to her getting the standard $15K bonus, so that's 20K between us just on the bonuses)

V. I use my Starwood at the liquor store and other AmEx merchants who do not fit into the Delta double miles scheme. Can't go wrong since I can use Starwood to top off whatever miles account I want (except United). I consider my Starwood points very valuable, so I don't hesitate to use Starwood with these merchants.

VI. Only thing I regret is throwing away my HHonors AmEx (3 pts per $1) which I got just for the sign-up bonus. I would have used that one sometimes, maybe I will ask for another card since the account is still open.

Any ways you guys can see that I can get more miles, or is this strategy fairly sound in your view?

BankOne, Citibank and MBNA Worldpoints all offer mileage credit cards with no annual fee, and whose miles are redeemable on any major carrier. Citibank at one point recently was offering a x5 multiplier for daily uses like gas and groceries.

This site seems largely outdated and useless. I would appreciate help in a private message if there is a better way to zero in only on threads that have recent posts. I've altered my settings to show only more recent posts, but I don't see a way to look at a "table of contents" of the threads and sort them without visiting the thread first.

How about reading the FAQs to the site before you start calling it useless.

This site was created for people to learn and share information about how best to earn points & miles in frequent flyer or guest programs.

It's not a place to come to find cheap airfare deals or mistakes.

Each forum also has stickys on top to explain how to properly use that forum, as well as instructions for using UBB. Dredging up old posts from 2000 is NOT the way to do it.

BTW - welcome to FT. Read a little before you pass judgement - you may like it here & wish to contribute.

I dunno if this is a new program. But Chase has a Platinum Award card that offers award miles with no annual fee. I believe it's similar to Capital One's program. No blackout dates etc. 25,000 for domestic ticket and 50,000 for international.

I'm closing this 5 year old thread before its get uglier...