Practical Travel Safety Issues - New (to me) lithium battery limits from the TSA

I just read about the TSA's effective-Jan-1 rules on lithium batteries via BoingBoing. As the rules will start in the middle of one trip, I should check I understand them. Also, have other countries implemented similar limits?
New TSA rules on lithium batteries (http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html)

Essentially they're saying no lithium batteries at all in checked-in luggage. Theoretically you could, but they have to be installed within the device, and you're not supposed to have valuables--camera, cellphone, laptop--into checked luggage. Correct?

They're flat out forbidding any battery with more than 2 grams lithium, but you can have a battery with up to 25 lithium-grams-equivalents. Since they tell you to contact the manufacturer if *you* are unsure how much lithium is in it, then how will *they* possibly know? Should one get a note from the manufacturer / print out the webpage?

Mr. FlyingAway carries an extra battery to power a CPAP machine--a medical device. I see no discussion on the page about medical exceptions, and the battery is made by "an obscure Chinese manufacturer." That lithium battery does not look like a laptop battery, but is about the same size as one. Will the TSA have discretion to assume that similar size = similar lithium? Neither we nor any nearby passengers would want that battery taken away: no CPAP = snoring.

We could carry a spare set of 8 D-cells in a holder, although that (the plastic holder) got him weird stares in the past.

All of my and Mr. FlyingAway's spare camera batteries will have to be in our carry-on luggage, right? We do this anyways, so that's not a worry to us. Finding out how much lithium is in his CPAP battery within the next few days is a worry.

(It also seems--though it doesn't apply to me--that Audio/Visual professionals are in trouble, here, because they couldn't possibly carry-on all of their battery-using equipment.)

Read the rules carefully. Forbidden are lithium METAL batteries (non-rechargeable) with over two grams Li. The rules you are concerned with are those for Li ION batteries (rechargeable).

You need to check the watt-hours of your battery. Often a battery will express milliampere-hours - I believe if you multiply this by the voltage and divide by 1000 you will have watt hours.

The reason for the new rules is that Li batteries are a very concentrated source of energy. Shorting of the terminals turns them into at best an incendiary device and at worst a bomb. That is why different rules apply for batteries in a device - that provides protection against shorting.

As usual, we're on the honor system.

Simply remove any incriminating labels regarding lithium and you should be good to go. This is especially true for a carried-on battery that exceeds 2g Li+. However, you'd probably have to look pretty hard to find such a battery.

Hmmm...I hope this isn't going to be a replay of the liquids fiasco...the frontline isn't given clear directions, TSA likes to keep us guessing anyway, so when in doubt, confiscate...

OK, I removed the battery from my Dell D610 laptop and confirmed that I still remember the relationship between current, voltage and power from my high school physics book.

My battery is rated at 2200 mAh (milli ampere hours) at 14.8 V. It also says (but most batteries do not) that it has a capacity of 32 W-H (watt-hours).

As I proposed above, by multiplying 2200 mAh times 14.8V we get 32,120 milliwatt hours. Simply moving the decimal point 3 spots to the left gives us 32 Watt hours.

Even if your husband's battery does not state watt hours, you can calculate it from the mAh and voltage using this approach.

As usual, we're on the honor system.

Simply remove any incriminating labels regarding lithium and you should be good to go. This is especially true for a carried-on battery that exceeds 2g Li+. However, you'd probably have to look pretty hard to find such a battery.

Thanks. Per Gardener's comment and yours, I think we're logically safe on the battery used for the CPAP--it is rechargeable and therefore not a lithium-metal battery.

That said, because it is
1. not part of the CPAP machine per se (it plugs in but can run on 12v), and
2. a generic non-laptop battery, I still wonder if we're actually safe on it. We know it's rechargeable. Will they know that?

It is our critical li-ion battery: he can't sleep without the CPAP, and neither could anyone nearby. We're in United Eplus for most flights, so no plugs. Guess we'll also bring the D-cell holder, even though it looks odd--like parts from Radio Shack, which it is.

I'll have to do the math later: it will run Mr. FA's CPAP machine (and/or laptop if we're not sleeping) for about 10 hours per charge iirc.

I'm increasingly glad we avoided any UK airports for our next trip to Europe: I cannot imagine us getting just our cameras, electronics and supporting equipment into UK-restricted carry-ons. We'd have to be wearing, not carrying, our 1st-day change of clothes.

Simply remove any incriminating labels regarding lithium and you should be good to go.

Of course, you could run into the same problem we've heard about w/r/t unlabeled toiletry bottles. Thusly,

[W]hen in doubt, confiscate...
And that's no joke. :(

As I proposed above, by multiplying 2200 mAh times 14.8V we get 32,120 milliwatt hours. Simply moving the decimal point 3 spots to the left gives us 32 Watt hours.

Thank you, Mr. Science! :D

Yep, it's on TSA's front page now. How exactly will this affect us, tho?

Simple - if you used to take any spare batteries with any lithium at all you can't take them in your checked luggage.

Now, of course, I'm sure this will be misinterpreted by the line droids and your $150 spare laptop battery in your briefcase will end up being thrown out.

Now, of course, I'm sure this will be misinterpreted by the line droids and your $150 spare laptop battery in your briefcase will end up being thrown out.

I'm guessing we'll see posts complaining about having to fight to keep their batteries when passing through a checkpoint in the first few weeks in January. Since the TSA can't keep track of it's already voluminous regulations why would we expect them to be able to keep track of yet another something that requires a table?

For the average laptop/cell phone user, you'll be well within the limits. If you're a professional videographer that typically carries a lot of batteries, there is cause for concern.

Made a double post I am so livid :)

I am sick of this. I am angry therefore my post will likely not be 100% rational but I AM SICK OF THIS!!!!

They have already made any kind of movement a huge bother and downright uncomfortable. Because of their stupid rules I have lost a lot of money when things were stolen out of my checked bag because I couldn't carry them on.
Now I won't be able to feel safe about carrying spares as some moron TSA goon (simmer down TSA lovers not all are like this...but MANY are) will confiscate them because like often he won't understand the rules and then I will lose more money and possibly be without and item I need/or not fly today.

I already avoid the pathetic excuse for an air transport "system" as much as I can but I haven't figured out a way to drive across the oceans yet...if somebody knows please share the tip.

I already have to deal with several (again not all but many to most) horribly rude and unreasonable people from the airport staff to 'security' to flight crews to passengers who have no respect for others in the same tiny space and do things like kick your seat the whole flight because you recline half way to give your back a "bit" of relief on a 12 hour flight or spread themselves half into your seat and act like they are doing nothing wrong.

This is bigger than 'flying' I know...it is humanity...and humanity sucks in large.

I work hard for my money and pay my own travel expenses so I can't afford to fly FC especially internationally but it sounds like even the FC experience is dwindling these days and it only would address part of the problem as FC passengers have to deal with 80% of the same nonsense.

I normally just put my head down and push through the horrible experience that is air travel these days but I have had it. If you can't beat em join em...I am going to do whatever it takes to make my flights more comfortable and cause irritation to the system at every turn when I can...to the bureaucrats and those FFers of you who ply your little tricks at the expense of others like shoving a magazine into the seat so it wont go down...game on.

If I didn't rant enough..."I HATE THIS!!!!!!!"

For the average laptop/cell phone user, you'll be well within the limits. If you're a professional videographer that typically carries a lot of batteries, there is cause for concern.

We're not professional videographers, just two people in technology who like photography when traveling.

When we travel we carry:
* at least one laptop (two if both on business travel) to hold the 2000+ pictures/week we take (backups both on the HD and burning CDs, also to do preliminary sorting and quality checks),
* 3 cameras (one pro/consumer level SLR w/ several lenses) with at least 4 extra batteries (2 spares per person in case we can't recharge during a full-day's site-seeing),
* two cell phones (sometimes also a PDA), and
* the important li-ion battery that runs the CPAP on the airplane and/or the laptop if we're off the grid.

This is as efficient as we can be: we know how long the camera batteries last--not a full day--and we've seen what can go wrong if you don't review your pics each day on a computer screen.

I'm not worried going strictly by the TSA's math. But I do worry that they'll spend an extra minute or two counting out the batteries for us and other techies in line.

As for the non-branded battery for the CPAP device: I'll hope for the best, but I cannot find specs online.

Am i reading all this right from the FAA that there basing this new rule because of Two :td: incidents that werent on any commercial flights but cargo carriers (fedex) and the other was on the ramp inbetween flights due to rough handling? Is this also being based off the bad batch of lithium cells from sanyo used in laptop batteries that caused a laptop to catch fire in japan and caused a recall of several million batteries because of a fluke?

So based off this now i cant carry a extra battery for my laptop or camera because of some remote risk, oh come on this is getting to the point of lunacy.;) Plus i think if you short out any battery in alcohol and/or fire it will cause a fire or explode from the materials inside expanding just like the testing that was done as part of the testing in the new rules.

This is going to effect alot of people who take extra batteries for there laptops and cameras so they can get through a long flight/trip because laptops dont exactly sip on the batteries when at idle or viewing a DVD or to get through a trip without buy batteries at the destination for a premium. What the FAA didnt think about is that most batteries come in a case that isolates to prevent accidental shorts see link (http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/special-offers.php) its the first three items on the list, so this prevents this. There are also similar cases for other rechargable sizes as well including CRV3 which is a rechargeable battery that most consumer point and shoot cameras use, Then the batteries for professional cameras have plastic covers for the contacts as well.

Of course TSA is going to drop the ball on this like normal, and i can see Li-Ion batteries and others being confused with other types of batteries and being confiscated. I can see/here it now "NiCd, Nimh, Alkaline, Li-Primary, Li-ion there all a like and not allowed" Dont laugh because its gonna happen because The Stupidity Association dont have the abilty to think, use common sense, instead they makes the rules up on the fly as normal. Another example of how money is being sucked out of the economy:td:.

Oh BTW if they start confiscating batteries how are they going to deal with them because if TSA does like they normally do and throw it away the EPA will take action because thats illegal as this is hazardous waste and has to be disposed of properly.

Here's the real deal, from http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/batteries.shtm

Travel Alert Starting January 1, 2008
Spare Lithium Batteries No Longer Allowed in Checked Baggage.

Effective January 1, 2008, spare lithium batteries - extra batteries not installed on devices - will no longer be allowed in checked baggage. Spare lithium batteries may be packed in carry-on baggage and lithium batteries installed in a device may be packed in either checked or carry-on, as long as the battery is installed in the device.

You can learn more at http://Safetravel.dot.gov

and

"Lithium Batteries: Safety and Security

Lithium-ion batteries, often found in laptop computers, differ from primary lithium batteries, which are often used in cameras. Some newer AA-size batteries are also primary lithium.

While there is no explosion hazard associated with either kind of battery, the Federal Aviation Administration has studied fire hazards associated with both primary and lithium-ion cells, and their extensive research is publicly available. As a result of this research, the FAA no longer allows large, palletized shipments of these batteries to be transported as cargo on passenger aircraft.

The research also shows that an explosion will not result from shorting or damaging either lithium-ion or primary lithium batteries. Both are, however, extremely flammable. Primary lithium batteries cannot be extinguished with firefighting agents normally carried on aircraft, whereas lithium-ion batteries are easily extinguished by most common extinguishing agents, including those carried on board commercial aircraft.

TSA has and will continue to work closely with the FAA on potential aviation safety and security issues, and TSA security officers are thoroughly and continually trained to find explosive threats. TSA does not have plans to change security regulations for electronic devices powered by lithium batteries."


and, courtesy of Joe Brancatelli, the DOT statement:

THE DOT STATEMENT:
Passengers will no longer be able to pack loose lithium batteries in checked luggage beginning January 1, 2008 once new federal safety rules take effect. The new regulation, designed to reduce the risk of lithium battery fires, will continue to allow lithium batteries in checked baggage if they are installed in electronic devices, or in carry-on baggage if stored in plastic bags.

Common consumer electronics such as travel cameras, cell phones, and most laptop computers are still allowed in carry-on and checked luggage. However, the rule limits individuals to bringing only two extended-life spare rechargeable lithium batteries, such as laptop and professional audio/video/camera equipment lithium batteries in carry-on baggage.

“Doing something as simple as keeping a spare battery in its original retail packaging or a plastic zip-lock bag w ill prevent unintentional short-circuiting and fires,” said Krista Edwards, Deputy Administrator of the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration.

Lithium batteries are considered hazardous materials because they can overheat and ignite in certain conditions. Safety testing conducted by the FAA found that current aircraft cargo fire suppression system would not be capable of suppressing a fire if a shipment of non-rechargeable lithium batteries were ignited in flight.

“This rule protects the passenger,” said Lynne Osmus, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) assistant administrator for security and hazardous materials. “It’s one more step for safety. It’s the right thing to do and the right time to do it.”

In addition to the new rule, PHMSA is working with the FAA, the National Transportation Safety Board, the Consumer Product Safety Commission, the battery and airline industries, airline employee organizations, testing laboratories, and the emergency response communities to increase public awareness about battery-related risks and developments. These useful safety tips are highlighted at the public website: http://safetravel.dot.gov.

Ahem, "the right time to do it." What in this world possesses these people to make sudden changes between or near holidays, with minimal response time for travelers? :mad:

(Of course, I carry a number of Li batteries to power my u/w video camera, lights, etc. but I'm going to have to reread the new regs and figure what I will be entitled to travel with now. First, my pony and bail-out tanks, now this...)

As for the non-branded battery for the CPAP device: I'll hope for the best, but I cannot find specs online.
Does it look like this one?
http://www.batterygeek.net/v/vspfiles/CPAP_Battery_Packs.asp?gclid=CLH1is6YzJACFQHgPAodf gLYVg
If so, it's only 150 or 222 watt hours.

I think between the two of you, each with 25 grams aggregate allowed, you will be within the limit. My concern is the application/math of these new rules being a bit complicated for the average screener, they can't even figure out the fact that us Canadians buy everything in metric sizes, including 100 mL bottles and litre sized kippie baggies! I'd say get all your batteries' specs together, figure out how many Wh you have on hand for everything and keep it on hand. Just another thing to distract screening personnel from doing the job they're supposed to do. :rolleyes:

This just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Thank goodness the federal government is looking out for all our welfare.

First, we were saved from the indignity of x-raying briefcases with laptops inside (oh, and don't forget the highly paid TSA agents that were helpful enough to find all 6 extra nail clippers hiding in our briefcases). Next, we were saved from hiding our socks inside our shoes. Next, we were saved from lugging around 5oz bottles of shampoo -- and as a bonus, saved from hiding them in our baggage. At some point, lighters became taboo. Oops, no, no, no, only lighters that have been filled, souvenir Zippos are actually OK (how much lobbying $$$ did that take?).

Now, thank goodness, TSA will save us from lugging around lots of batteries. Much better to throw those things away. Goodness knows how many laptop batteries will NOT explode now!

Whew.

Save me from having to experience the TSA and the US Goverment's ineptitude..that is what I need saving from.

As usual, we're on the honor system.

Simply remove any incriminating labels regarding lithium and you should be good to go. This is especially true for a carried-on battery that exceeds 2g Li+. However, you'd probably have to look pretty hard to find such a battery.but wait Spiff-screeners are gonna have to measure the amount so now we're gonna have a screener with a ph.d telling us we're wrong. :rolleyes:

now another question....if the tee-esss-ayyyy is so concerned with 2g li why don' they bother to allow a one litre kippy baggie and 3.40z of those dreaded ter'wrist liquids so to be in uniformity with the rest of the world that uses the metric system :rolleyes:. i'm soooo confused :D

i am a computer pro for a living. as my laptop is my office (travel a lot), it is a maxed out monster (dell xps 1710m), such a hog that the seat power is utterly incapable of supplying the 130w it sucks down. as i fly trans-pac and trans-atl a lot, i carry a battery pack (a battery geek (http://www.batterygeek.net/) 6000mAh/111Wh). from what i read, i am now sol. correct? and battery geek is gonna be out of business pretty soon.

Oh BTW if they start confiscating batteries how are they going to deal with them because if TSA does like they normally do and throw it away the EPA will take action because thats illegal as this is hazardous waste and has to be disposed of properly.

That won't be a problem because the EPA/OSHA doesn't oversee theft from passengers' checked luggage. :(

No, Randy, I believe you aren't. You'll just have to carry it on. A pain and hassle, I know, but at least you can carry it on.

i am a computer pro for a living. as my laptop is my office (travel a lot), it is a maxed out monster (dell xps 1710m), such a hog that the seat power is utterly incapable of supplying the 130w it sucks down. as i fly trans-pac and trans-atl a lot, i carry a battery pack (a battery geek (http://www.batterygeek.net/) 6000mAh/111Wh). from what i read, i am now sol. correct? and battery geek is gonna be out of business pretty soon.

Great. :(

Now every single time we pass through a checkpoint, we have to worry about a rogue screener confiscating our expensive and vital batteries. Or misclassifying our NiMH camera batteries as "lithium." Just what we need. And now I'll have to carry spec sheets, and more printed TSA regs, and be prepared for a fight with a screening manager over batteries, for every trip. Even if the rogue screener never materializes, the hassle is huge.

Read the chart at http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

The chart is so complicated that it took me several minutes to figure out through the convoluted logic that my cell phone with installed + spare battery plus camera with installed + spare battery plus laptop with installed extended-life plus spare normal-life is not prohibited. (The logic is that < 8-oz equiv batteries are not restricted at all, so the phone and camera are fine. The bigger batteries, which may or may not include the laptop batteries, are restrictied to 2.)

I have a PhD in electrical engineering. How many TSA screeners are going to take the time to understand these rules? How the hell am I going to explain total "Watt hours" among batteries ranging from ~4 to ~14 V to a high-school-educated screener who barely passed arithmetic? Why does TSA never think of this issue when making up their silly, complicated, and ill-specified rules?

My prediction: idiot screeners (and we know they are out there) will interpret the rules as "2 batteries allowed" which means you can carry your cell phone and laptop battery but no spares.

My suggestion: spread your batteries out within your carry-on items. Phone in the jacket pocket, spare laptop battery in laptop case, spare phone battery in rollaboard. Don't let the x-ray operator see more than 1 battery per bag.

I'm with the above poster. By mid January, we'll have stories of confiscated batteries and stories of fights and missed flights to keep batteries.

I hate TSA. I still maintain that the only true solution is to disband the entire agency and start over without any of the current leadership.

:(

Spiff: Well the EPA does oversee/jurisdiction over illegal dumping and will love TSA to improperly dispose of the batteries; so they can hand down stiff fines for improper disposal as materials in those batteries are harmful to the enviroment. I know because a few hobby shops got fined in Dallas a few years back for throwing boxes of dead cells in the dumpster( Nicd, Nimh, Li-metal and they were prepaid for a battery recycler no less) and as a result because of the fines went out of business. one shop was report to be fined around $150K for less then 50 cells in one box.

Studenttf: Dont feel bad I already carry a notebook full of various documents to keep my stuff from being stolen or having duties wrongly forced on me. This will add another 1/8 inch to the book, just that the resulting stupidity is what will be hard to deal with in addition to what is normally dished out. Dont bother trying to teach the TSO with a GED about that because all you will get is a deer in headlights look and you will end up with a migrane and requesting for a complaint form.

I'm with the above poster. By mid January, we'll have stories of confiscated batteries and stories of fights and missed flights to keep batteries.

Mid-January? I give it until about noon on January 1.

i am a computer pro for a living. as my laptop is my office (travel a lot), it is a maxed out monster (dell xps 1710m), such a hog that the seat power is utterly incapable of supplying the 130w it sucks down. as i fly trans-pac and trans-atl a lot, i carry a battery pack (a battery geek (http://www.batterygeek.net/) 6000mAh/111Wh). from what i read, i am now sol. correct? and battery geek is gonna be out of business pretty soon.
Apart from how the typical TSA screener interprets the rules (which are a bit challenging for a techie like me to fully comprehend), I believe you can carry that spare battery, it's only 111 Wh. For that matter, you probably could get away with two of them: one spare, one in the computer. What else are you carrying with you battery-wise?

So does this mean my 4-pack of AA Lithium batteries (spares for digital camera & GPS) is banned if my suitcase gets checked?

And what protects the plane from incinerating if the "carryon" ends up gated check in the same RJ baggage hold as checked luggage? Will the children ever forgive us?

*#*&*($& retards!

Attention Lawyers!

No CPAP can also equal DEATH.

:td::mad:

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 Sprint:MotoQ (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; Smartphone; 176x220))

Wow, this is going to be a total fiasco frm just about every aspect. And a lot worse than the liquid ban - it's easy enough to recover from wrongly having your toothpaste thrown away. Not so easy to recover from having your laptop battery get thrown away - good luck finding a replacement on your trip.

And who put together that complicated DOT chart? Good luck with the TSA trying to decode that at the checkpoint :rolleyes:

Oh for the LOVE OF GOD. That chart makes me want to slit my wrists.

Can I just ask this? Let's say I put my extended battery in my laptop. Can I carry two standard batteries as spares?

http://www.notebookparts.com/products/description.php?II=1686

Can I also carry one spare battery for my camera? It's this battery, and I usually carry it in the charger, if that matters:

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Battery-SD1000-Digital-Cameras/dp/B00065L5SU

I really do not have time to get a PhD in Maths or Electricity or whatever before my trip :(

you know most of us should have not too much to worry about in the way of loosing batteries (well, that is in _theory_).

the sad sad reality is that i will become more paranoid get there earlier so that I can end up talking to a supervisor and showing him said chart.

1 extra camera battery (canon sd1000, g9, or rebel xti) and at times I carry 2 cameras.

1 extra macbook pro battery

1 (maybe) extra cell battery if I choose to bring the blackjack for gps (or I could just bring the gps i guess and use the iphone as usual)

just fricken great I'm going to need to rethink my tools/carryon and have a handy friendly table printout to defend my junk.....

:mad:
-ee

Oh for the LOVE OF GOD. That chart makes me want to slit my wrists.

Can I just ask this? Let's say I put my extended battery in my laptop. Can I carry two standard batteries as spares?

http://www.notebookparts.com/products/description.php?II=1686

Can I also carry one spare battery for my camera? It's this battery, and I usually carry it in the charger, if that matters:

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Battery-SD1000-Digital-Cameras/dp/B00065L5SU

I really do not have time to get a PhD in Maths or Electricity or whatever before my trip :(

No PhD required.. Google and a very small bit of math is all that is necessary. Also an earlier poster in the thread described the math.

Watts = volts * amps

or in the case of your laptop battery since it's expressed in mAh -

Watts = volts * mAh / 1000

The Sony notebook battery says - 11.1V - 4300mAh, so

Watts = 11.1 * 4300 / 1000 = 47.73 watt-hours

The Canon NB-4L is listed as 3.7V - 550mAh -

Watts = 3.7 * 550 / 1000 = 2.035 watt-hours

Since the DOT site says, "8 grams of equivalent lithium content is approximately 100 watt-hours", you are clearly under that in either case.

There is no limit for the number of spare batteries under 8 grams (~100 watt-hours) that you can take with you in your cabin baggage.

Please feel free to print out my post and show it to an TSA screener that challenges you. I'm quite confident that they will respect my opinion.. :)

-Silverado

Oh for the LOVE OF GOD. That chart makes me want to slit my wrists.

Can I just ask this? Let's say I put my extended battery in my laptop. Can I carry two standard batteries as spares?

http://www.notebookparts.com/products/description.php?II=1686

Can I also carry one spare battery for my camera? It's this battery, and I usually carry it in the charger, if that matters:

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Battery-SD1000-Digital-Cameras/dp/B00065L5SU

I really do not have time to get a PhD in Maths or Electricity or whatever before my trip :(

No PhD required.. Google and a very small bit of math is all that is necessary. Also an earlier poster in the thread described the math.

Watts = volts * amps

or in the case of your laptop battery since it's expressed in mAh -

Watts = volts * mAh / 1000

The Sony notebook battery says - 11.1V - 4300mAh, so

Watts = 11.1 * 4300 / 1000 = 47.73 watt-hours

The Canon NB-4L is listed as 3.7V - 550mAh -

Watts = 3.7 * 550 / 1000 = 2.035 watt-hours

Since the DOT site says, "8 grams of equivalent lithium content is approximately 100 watt-hours", you are clearly under that in either case.

There is no limit for the number of spare batteries under 8 grams (~100 watt-hours) that you can take with you in your cabin baggage.

Please feel free to print out my post and show it to any TSA screener that challenges you. I'm quite confident that they will respect my opinion.. :)

-Silverado

solution 1 to problems involving all air travel facing customers today:

TRAVEL BY SHIP

Solution 2:

Fire everyone and start over. two flights had fires. two.

Anyone here can think up many instances where someone who was sick with say, the flu was stuck on a plane that was held on the tarmac for 4 hrs, and that sick person probably affected all the other passengers because of 4hrs of recirculated air, and this in turn made it so a passenger who got sick as a result of being trapped on a plane later could not perform at work fully, and at least one of those was probably a firefighter or EMT, who, because he/she was sick one day, could not help with a fire that could have been put out, diminished or prevented, and was instead able to burn something somewhere, whereas money or perhaps even lives were lost as a result.

Good lord! I mean, when reading just this thread I find it will be soooooo confusing for people like, say, mother in law with her camera and cell phone to travel here to see us. WHY oh why must they make the consumer do all this work? Why put MORE restrictions on normal living needs on planes for us?

It's all very very stooopid!

MM

...and the battery is made by "an obscure Chinese manufacturer."

ahhh, I KNEW there had to be an explaination!

Cha Ching!!!!!!!

they dont want us to buy from the Chinese anymore.

the 311 thing was to make us spend money too, but in different ways, and this is all about money. Bastids!

I still find the entire thing completely idiotic and angering. I would like the TSA to kindly translate it all into Dutch and also provide metric measurement equivelents where necessary, plus more details on exactly what can and cannot be allowed. As well, we now need more space in our carry ons to bring the extra batteries on the plane, so please allow this too--or tell the airlines they have to allow it.

I can't imagine that TSA people will be able to do the math and correctly interpret the results. Just heard a story on the local news here and they said, "...a passenger can now pack two batteries in a plastic bag, but only if the bag is in the carry on luggage."

No mention of limitations of how many grams of lithium-equivalent. I wouldn't take local newscasts as a definitive source of information, but if a reporter doing a story on the battery ban can't get it right, it wouldn't surprise me if TSA folks at the security check mess it up too.

I guess heavy battery users will just have to duct tape a dozen <8g batteries together with an attached wiring harness. I'm sure they'll love that.

what's going to happen is that the TSA grunts cannot understand the math, etc, so they will basically just say NO to everything. Like a bouncer who does not let you in a bar because he cannot read a passport (they are trained to examine driver's licenses but many have no clue about passports) the average TSA agent is going to interpret this rule to mean no extra anything batteries anywhere. AND when your luggage is lost or missing, you will have to prove there were no bats in there either. Like calling tech support of a bad computer software company who always assumes it's the user's error first, the first thing you will get asked will be, "did you pack batteries in there? because that's why it is delayed, sir." When you get mad trying to tell them you did not, or that you followed the minutia of the rules, they will still hang this over you to get out of taking any responsibility, which is what all this is all about. (that, and an attempt to move from foreign manufacturers)

it's all going to really stink.
Bring nothing and you will be better off.
That's what they are getting at anyway.

What it would really take is a huge traveling stoppage...money is the only thing that anyone really cares about so if the air travel industry was losing millions because of the TSA and DHS idiocy they would push for change with the power of those industries.

Problem is nobody cares enough to burden themselves and not use the system...people care enough to complain but not to take action.

Humanity in action...it will only get worse folks.

out of sheer convenience, I could probably sign on to the no fly plan the poster above me suggests. I now have an 18 month old and a baby on the way in March. We own a ski condo in VT and we live near a beach in MA. We need not fly, really. Wife's parents wanna see us and babies so they have to fly to here from EU, but that's about it. My mother sometimes flies to NYC to fight for peace thru an organization called www.peacefultomorrows.org. They have a lot to do with battling the stupidity of both the TSA and that which this administration has come to set in stone.

flying stinks now. I don't travel for business. Put me down for 3+1 on the way out of the loop! I'm out of miles now anyway. I mean, maybe this will work for me, right?

Simple - if you used to take any spare batteries with any lithium at all you can't take them in your checked luggage.

Now, of course, I'm sure this will be misinterpreted by the line droids and your $150 spare laptop battery in your briefcase will end up being thrown out.

If they think they can throw away my spare laptop battery they can go pound sand. I will raise some serious hell about that one.

out last night with a friend who happens to be a supervisor with the airport police and asked him about it. first he heard of it and he worked yesterday.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 Sprint:MotoQ (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; Smartphone; 176x220))

Yet another task to distract TSA from doing its primary job - looking for guns and explosives. Since TSA misses those most times, shouldn't we not be burdening it with counting batteries and other such nonsense?

A lot more commercial flights have been brought down or severely disrupted by guns and bombs than cell phone batteries. And I'm not familiar with any al Qaeda plots to smuggle aboard a spare duracell :rolleyes:

This policy is insane. Real threats go ignored, fake ones are obsessed over. Why are we so stupid?

The absolutely sad thing is that DOT even says the risk is remote and that there have been a few reported incidents


Link to the report on the two incidents that are causing all of this: http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/systems/Lithium-ion_battery_04112006.pdf - typical government logic being used in this new rule, lack of logic and no common sense and based on fluke events from 8 years or more when lithium ion technology was new.

link to testing report on lithium batteries http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/06-38.pdf - I think just about anyone could figure out that if you use alchoal and fire on any battery it would explode. be careful it will put you to sleep its a boring read.

link to search on lithium ion (http://search.google.dot.gov/FAA/FAASearchProcess.asp?ie=&site=DOT_Pages&output=xml_no_dtd&client=DOT_Pages&lr=&proxystylesheet=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.google.dot.gov %2FFAA%2Ffaa_google.xslt&oe=&faa_only=1&q=lithium+ion&x=0&y=0) on the FAA site.

This is so ironic its not funny, now that i can carry ammo in a checked bag but not a battery for my video or still camera.:td:

I would love to know whos @:-) idea this was inside the government because its probably someone who hasnt ever used a laptop or travelled anytime in the past 50 years

Why is everyone so upset? From what I'm reading, this won't affect most people - and laptops definitely aren't affected. If you carry spare batteries, just carry them on. It's pretty simple.

Relax, everyone. Oh, and it's not TSA's fault, it's actually DOT/FAA who made this particular decision.

Sorry if I sound somewhat harsh - I think the liquid ban is pointless, sweaters/coats off silly, and shoes off stupid, and while I try to commend TSA for their good staff, and criticize them for their bad, I think people on this thread are overreacting. TSA knows that if their screeners denied people from bringing their laptop batteries onboard (even if the battery was in the laptop), there'd be a MAJOR outcry from both the airlines (especially those offering wireless access now onboard, like JetBlue) and passengers. They put up with the shoe and liquid carnival, but if they're told their laptop battery they can't fly, I promise you there will be a huge outcry. So, relax, people. That won't happen.

So, relax, people. That won't happen.

I have to disagree. It SHOULDN'T happen, but if past experience is any indication, it unfortunately WILL happen. Not, of course, because the screeners (both frontline and checked luggage) won't be properly trained, but because 1) 'when in doubt, leave it out' and 2) inconsistency = security.

I'm glad I don't have any international trips coming up in the next couple months (that's when I take cameras, extra batteries). That will give TSA time to show how these rules are actually going to be interpreted. :(

I have to disagree. It SHOULDN'T happen, but if past experience is any indication, it unfortunately WILL happen. Not, of course, because the screeners (both frontline and checked luggage) won't be properly trained, but because 1) 'when in doubt, leave it out' and 2) inconsistency = security.

I'm glad I don't have any international trips coming up in the next couple months (that's when I take cameras, extra batteries). That will give TSA time to show how these rules are actually going to be interpreted. :(

OK, maybe a few screeners will be stupid and deny someone with a laptop or something to fly... but if that does happen, the passenger's responsibility is to get a supervisor or FSD. If no go, go see the airline and have them help you out.

Remember the SimpliFLY drama in November? Everyone was so sure that TSA would give anyone who packed messily a hard time. None of that happened - they were simply giving a suggestion.

Why is everyone so upset? From what I'm reading, this won't affect most people - and laptops definitely aren't affected. If you carry spare batteries, just carry them on. It's pretty simple.

...

TSA knows that if their screeners denied people from bringing their laptop batteries onboard (even if the battery was in the laptop), there'd be a MAJOR outcry from both the airlines (especially those offering wireless access now onboard, like JetBlue) and passengers. They put up with the shoe and liquid carnival, but if they're told their laptop battery they can't fly, I promise you there will be a huge outcry. So, relax, people. That won't happen.

Labelling of your liquids was never officially required. And there has never been an instance of unlabelled liquids being declared as contraband by a TSA screener.

You are not supposed to be separated from your luggage during secondary screening and that's never been an issue in the past.

Only large electronics need to be placed separately on the belt and that's always been clearly and consistently enforced.

Lithium-Ion batteries are permitted in carry-on luggage. Here's a table explaining the various limits. Be sure to read all of the additional paragraphs discussing all the nuances of the rules.

Clearly there won't be an issue.

Why is everyone so upset? From what I'm reading, this won't affect most people - and laptops definitely aren't affected. If you carry spare batteries, just carry them on. It's pretty simple.

Relax, everyone. Oh, and it's not TSA's fault, it's actually DOT/FAA who made this particular decision.
The question is if and how it will be enforced. You're assuming that TSA is just going to wave everything through the checkpoint without incident. If that's the case, then the ban won't affect most people (but may be a major problem for video professionals).

On the other hand, if TSA decides that everyone needs to present all of their batteries for inspection like the liquid baggies, then it's going to be a major hassle. I carry 5+ devices with lithium batteries. I don't really care to have several more electronic devices sitting around exposed in bins to worry about having damaged or stolen

As for checked bags, if TSA decided to open any bags suspected of having batteries, that will probably slow down the works quite considerably.

Labelling of your liquids was never officially required. And there has never been an instance of unlabelled liquids being declared as contraband by a TSA screener.

You are not supposed to be separated from your luggage during secondary screening and that's never been an issue in the past.

Only large electronics need to be placed separately on the belt and that's always been clearly and consistently enforced.

Lithium-Ion batteries are permitted in carry-on luggage. Here's a table explaining the various limits. Be sure to read all of the additional paragraphs discussing all the nuances of the rules.

Clearly there won't be an issue.

Obvious to whom?

Labelling of your liquids was never officially required. And there has never been an instance of unlabelled liquids being declared as contraband by a TSA screener.

You are not supposed to be separated from your luggage during secondary screening and that's never been an issue in the past.

Only large electronics need to be placed separately on the belt and that's always been clearly and consistently enforced.

Lithium-Ion batteries are permitted in carry-on luggage. Here's a table explaining the various limits. Be sure to read all of the additional paragraphs discussing all the nuances of the rules.

Clearly there won't be an issue.Clearly you are joking....... I hope.
If not:
There have been a number of reports of unlabeled liquids being confiscated. Several people have reported being separated from their luggage during searches - and I have had my bags taken out of my sight on 2 occasions while they rescreened them, and ran them back through xray. I have also had to empty my bag of ALL electronics large & small right down to my cell phone at BOS and there are other reports of similar instances.

And the one thing I know for sure is the rules are NOT clearly and consistantly enforced... it's more secure that way don'tcha know?

I'll have a wait and see attitude on this one...... hopefully it won't be an issue.

Clearly you are joking....... I hope.
If not:
There have been a number of reports of unlabeled liquids being confiscated. Several people have reported being separated from their luggage during searches - and I have had my bags taken out of my sight on 2 occasions while they rescreened them, and ran them back through xray. I have also had to empty my bag of ALL electronics large & small right down to my cell phone at BOS and there are other reports of similar instances.

And the one thing I know for sure is the rules are NOT clearly and consistantly enforced... it's more secure that way don'tcha know?

I'll have a wait and see attitude on this one...... hopefully it won't be an issue.

You've answered your own question. Do I need to go back and add a This is sarcasm. disclaimer to my previous posting?

I had an experience in Madagascar on Air Madagascar which led me to believe that in some areas of the world it is expecting too much if you think everyone will understand the difference between lithium and alkaline batteries. I think all of our batteries are at risk. But I've already told the story at too much length (and with too much profanity) on my webpage. You are welcome to read it if you like, but if you don't like language, please stay away. I was in a grouchy mood when I wrote it. Besides, it's a diary, so it's going to be in a diary style, which we all know means much sarcasm and angst.

http://peachfront.diaryland.com/gonnacry222.html

Oh my God-I'm sitting here thanking my lucky stars I don't have any trips coming up, period, until this mess sorts itself out. I have no $&#*@)$ idea what kind of battery is in my laptop or cellphone or how to pull them out, never mind put them back in & get it to work again if they must be 'inspected' (I am the bane of my IT depts existence & have been for many years, I will freely admit).

For all of you who DO have to fly this week & deal w/this, you have my full sympathies.

Wasn't there a time, long long loooong ago, when flying used to be fun? :confused:

I am flying on Jan 1 with lots of L-ion batteries. A laptop. A Canon 1ds Mark II, a cell phone, a gps. Extra canon battery, extra batteries for a Canon 10D, extra cell battery. And a whole bunch of alkaline batteries. The canon battery is very expensive. I'm just gonna pray. I'll post my experience when I get to DTW.

I usually carry everything on board on the way over, pack on the way back. I guess I'll carry everything on over.

This press release http://phmsa.dot.gov/portal/site/PHMSA/menuitem.ebdc7a8a7e39f2e55cf2031050248a0c/?vgnextoid=24e4ffc638ef6110VgnVCM1000001ecb7898RCR D&vgnextchannel=8fd9f08df5f3f010VgnVCM1000008355a8c0 RCRD&vgnextfmt=print
says that you are allowed only two extended life spare batteries. The example give is a huge laptop battery (not just a spare battery) and the AV battery. I can guess that most TSA folks will assume this means just two spare batteries.

Can you please explained to me about new rules goes on effect January 1? What is reason why FAA has been banned the batteries from checked bags. I'm confusion about my cell phone that mean are sitll allowed onto the flights? I can take my chargers from my cell phone with me onto the flights. Is that okay with me? If you have anything more specific information about new rules from FAA? Thanks! :)

No, I don't have a life, FT is my life. My big Canon battery is not lithium it's Ni-MH. Now let's see how far I get with the TSO explaining that it isn't even subject to the regulations!

Wasn't there a time, long long loooong ago, when flying used to be fun? :confused:

I can barely remember those days....

Interesting how they slipped this announcement out over the holiday period!

I tried to think up other reasons why this all went down.

I think--and this is just a guess--that some faction of high end security manufacturing has come out with a new machine that can better detect devices and bombs and such but the cost is enormous right now. There have been concerns on what these scanning devices can actually detect and some stuff has gone by unchecked, but they are trying to make it so they can clearly recognize everything going onto a plane. The TSA or whomever makes decisions on what gets installed at airports nationwide, made bids to find the best products for scanning our luggage in airports and here's what I bet went down:

Eager underling who runs around pleasing the higher ups:
"Sir, I have some information for you. The A1000 system that's out right now from company X can scan most everything except these few items and it costs $1billion. Now, I found that the A1000-1.0 can scan everything and can even tell the difference between a camera battery and a laptop battery! Our scientists think this would more practical given the nature of the majority of the traveling public (business travelers). But this machine is $4billion. Would you like me to order those now?"

Supervisor:
"No, let's go with the cheaper model and just make a rule that forces the traveler to not put those items in their luggage anymore."

So, if I read this correctly, I can now only carry two Li-ion spares for my Canon DSLR. Just peachy.

I suppose I'll have to spread multiple spares across several carryon bags to get them through. :mad:

Take out those lithium pacemaker batteries:)

I am making little labels for all my batteries:

"TSA Approved Battery - NO Lithium - NO Lithium Ion "

Should do the trick. :)

So, if I read this correctly, I can now only carry two Li-ion spares for my Canon DSLR. Just peachy.

I suppose I'll have to spread multiple spares across several carryon bags to get them through. :mad:

I think, as I read it, you are permitted as many less than 8 g equivalent lithium content batteries as you want and two 25 g equivalent lithium content batteries. 8 g equivalent lithium content is equvalent to 100 watt-hours. My laptop battery is 69 watt-hours. The little Canon DSLR batteries are even smaller. If you have a big Canon DSLR battery, check it. Mine is nickel, not lithium. I'm going to be on the safe side and take two less than 8 g equivalent lithium content batteries and my nickel battery and alert my ride to the airport that I may be calling her to come back and pick up a battery or two.

Here is the best article I've seen. http://www.thestreet.com/s/dont-lose-your-batteries-to-airport-security/newsanalysis/hardware/10396317.html?puc=googlefiI can't parse my way through the FAA regulation.

My head is whirling. My camera uses AA batteries, and the rechargeable ones that I have are nimh. Those don't have lithium?

My head is whirling. My camera uses AA batteries, and the rechargeable ones that I have are nimh. Those don't have lithium?

nimh is nickel metal hydride. No lithium. Alkaline, which most AA batteries are, are zinc and manganese dioxide.

I hope all the TSOs have degrees in chemistry.

nimh is nickel metal hydride. No lithium. Alkaline, which most AA batteries are, are zinc and manganese dioxide.

I hope all the TSOs have degrees in chemistry.

I appear to be wrong about AA batteries. http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/batteries.shtm

I have a bunch of AA batteries from different manufacturers and I can't find a content label.

It is all quite confusing.

I am making little labels for all my batteries:

"TSA Approved Battery - NO Lithium - NO Lithium Ion "

Should do the trick. :)

Do you know what? I think that's genius and I am going to make a sticker myself with their logo on it! I used to think out of the box on such stuff myself and I think I forgot how here. Thank you.

It brings back memories of when I was in college and my wallet was in a house fire where we all lived. No one died but I got back half the contents in a charred state of existence. My driver's license was 1/2 a plastic card now with my picture and some details remaining, including my date of birth. In those days, it was always a pain to go to the RMV and stand in lines and such, so I never had time to do it. I instead went to Kinko's copies and made a state seal with a strip of clear plastic that read "damaged license, temporary validation." It worked fine for those final weeks of going to bars and buying beer nearing graduation. I was of legal drinking age (had taken time off school so was 21 before leaving) but this kind of thing is always a pain in that environment anyway. I later went to get a new one but for a while it served me well!...

Who is going to know the difference and if they do, what's the big deal if you just deny everything and say you got the battery that way and now YOU feel ripped off? :D

I appear to be wrong about AA batteries. http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/batteries.shtm

I have a bunch of AA batteries from different manufacturers and I can't find a content label.

It is all quite confusing.

The newer Lithium AA batteries will be very clearly labelled as such - the manufacturers are using it as a selling point. For example Energizer (http://www.energizer.com/products/hightech-batteries/lithium/Pages/lithium-batteries.aspx)

Duracell don't use Lithium in their AA batteries - they use it in their batteries for Film cameras - ie, not the AA size.

Scathing article here (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/30/tsa-makes-flying-miserable):

It seems lithium is the new WMD

THERE WAS A talk at the last Defcon and the TSA came up. Paraphrased, the message was that Kip Hawley, the TSA Administrator wondered why it is hated so much. It answered its own question this week with a ban on lithium batteries (http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html).

The situation goes like this, someone at TSA hears something, and it overreacts. This is not a problem, that is what it is paid to do, and if there is a threat that has an unknown aspect to it, better safe than sorry. God forbid if the voters aren't afraid, they might question the real problems that the government is not addressing, I mean, they might not behave properly. In general, overreaction is better than underreaction.

The problem is that the TSA never gets out of overreaction mode. Remember the whole 'liquid explosives' thing a year and a half ago? I think it was right for the government to overreact, and overreact it did. A week or three later, it came up with the whole 311 nonsense presumably to keep people from being too annoyed to realise that there was no liquid explosives terror threat in the first place (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6175427.stm).


Except for the bit about "the gov't should be overreacting," it's pretty funny.

Scathing article here (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/30/tsa-makes-flying-miserable):


Except for the bit about the gov't should be overreacting, it's pretty funny.

I was there. It was a great talk. ^

nimh is nickel metal hydride. No lithium. Alkaline, which most AA batteries are, are zinc and manganese dioxide.

I hope all the TSOs have degrees in chemistry.

TSA employees might have as little as a high school degree/GED. 1 year or less of high school chemistry is probably not going to get said employee past "Do you want to fly today, Comrade?" :(

"Thank you, drive, er walk through."

I still say a flying stoppage is needed...why oh why won't people step up when it is needed...what happened to the revolutionary genes.

I still say a flying stoppage is needed...why oh why won't people step up when it is needed...what happened to the revolutionary genes.

I'm in my third week of being grounded and loving every minute of it. :D

Big blocks of reactive metals are a problem that the TSA can't address, like bad things in shipped cargo. I mentioned that here a long time ago.

Do you suppose the TSA has a flunky reading through back issues of FlyerTalk for their next firedrill excuse?

And yet I've already had a problem with AA batteries from Duracell. There is no way that some random screener is going to know what has lithium in it and what doesn't, at least sometimes they are going to take them all.

Sorry for the random swears in my link, but come on. I'm at my limit. When you're going out in the bush, you can't just plug a recharger into the wall. You need your <redacted> batteries.

http://peachfront.diaryland.com/gonnacry222.html

In my story, at least I was allowed to keep the batteries in carry-on, but now you can only have two batteries in your carry-on, so even this wouldn't happen. My camera takes four batteries.

A travel "strike" won't work because the planes are over-loaded with passengers and stand-bys, and if you don't fly, so what, you won't be missed. Been on any empty planes lately? Me neither.


The newer Lithium AA batteries will be very clearly labelled as such - the manufacturers are using it as a selling point. For example Energizer (http://www.energizer.com/products/hightech-batteries/lithium/Pages/lithium-batteries.aspx)

Duracell don't use Lithium in their AA batteries - they use it in their batteries for Film cameras - ie, not the AA size.

And yet I've already had a problem with AA batteries from Duracell. There is no way that some random screener is going to know what has lithium in it and what doesn't, at least sometimes they are going to take them all.

Sorry for the random swears in my link, but come on. I'm at my limit. When you're going out in the bush, you can't just plug a recharger into the wall. You need your <redacted> batteries.

http://peachfront.diaryland.com/gonnacry222.html

In my story, at least I was allowed to keep the batteries in carry-on, but now you can only have two batteries in your carry-on, so even this wouldn't happen. My camera takes four batteries.



Mr. FlyingAway carries the large camera that eats up juice. If we're flying together, I can carry the spares. If he was by himself and wanting to carry a full-day's worth, there'd be trouble.

Except that their problem is with spare batteries. We may be hitting ebay to find the smallest and cheapest device which uses the same battery. It isn't spare if it is in a device, no?

I note that flying on the 30th there wasn't a single notice about the new battery rules going into effect that I saw at SFO (domestic). Not at the check-in counters, not anywhere in the TSA's territory. Would it have been so hard to warn people ahead of time? There'll be sadly surprised people tomorrow I have to bet.

There'll be sadly surprised people tomorrow I have to bet.

Exactly the point - after all, we must have designed inconsistency in order for security to work... [/sarcasm]

So, if I read this correctly, I can now only carry two Li-ion spares for my Canon DSLR. Just peachy.

I suppose I'll have to spread multiple spares across several carryon bags to get them through. :mad:

No... those batteries will be fine.

There has been a lot of confusion about this travel ban, but the reality is that it doesn't change much for most people. My only concern is the confusion that is generated between Lithium Ion and Lithium Polymer cells and the Lithium Primary (not rechargeable) cells that are the primary subject of this restriction. Even people with large rechargeable batteries will be able to fly with them... I wrote more about calculating the effective lithium content of the cells on my blog (http://www.certifiedbattery.com/taspanddroud/?p=14).

A travel strike WOULD work but the point is people wont do it...it is important enough to whine about but not important enough to be inconvenienced by.

Sure the TSA won't care directly if the airport is empty but we all know what drives the world...MONEY!!!!! And if the industry is losing it's pants because of the TSAs actions things will start to happen.

But...as I said...sadly people don't have it in them to do anything about so they go on whining.

Absolutely no difference in screening as far as I could tell. I had to take all my big lenses out of my bag. I've only had to do that once before, so I don't know if its anything new or just a difference in screeners.

I had three packages of alkaline batteries, a small Canon DSLR battery (Li-ion), a cell phone battery (Li-ion), and a large Canon DSLR battery (NiMH). Plus Canon iDs Mark II, three lenses, charger (it's huge), computer, Treo, garmin gps for a Treo, laptop and charger, two external hard drives.

Lithium Battery Ban? Check Again
By Damon Darlin

If you have been reading reports of the Federal Aviation Adminstration ban on lithium batteries on airliners, don’t get too excited.
Bruce Schneier, the security expert, says: “Near as I can tell, this affects pretty much no one except audio/visual professionals.”
Some of the reports aren’t making a distinction between lithium metal batteries and lithium-ion batteries, the kind in laptops and cellphones. Batteries explode, which is the reason for the concern from the FAA. The biggest part of that concern is unattended batteries in cargo holds or in checked luggage.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/lithium-battery-ban-check-again/

A travel strike WOULD work but the point is people wont do it...it is important enough to whine about but not important enough to be inconvenienced by. Sure the TSA won't care directly if the airport is empty but we all know what drives the world...MONEY!!!!! And if the industry is losing it's pants because of the TSAs actions things will start to happen. But...as I said...sadly people don't have it in them to do anything about so they go on whining.I can recall only one instance where the TSA went far enough over the line to make people angry, and that was the short-lived breast exams of a few years ago. After two Russian airliners were bombed -- supposedly by Chechen women with explosives hidden in their bras -- the TSA decided to start examining women's breast areas. It began in September of 2004 (I believe) and was all over before Thanksgiving, because the traveling public -- both men and (especially) women -- were enraged. So don't be too sure that everything the TSA does will be accepted.

Bruce

The funny part of this whole no loose batteries that comes to mind... the travelling public with aaahhh... ummm..... personal items in their checked luggage. They have always been advised to remove the batteries when not in use, particularly when packed in a suitcase because aaaahhhh... ummm.... errr... personal item vibrating inside a suitcase could cause alarm and the poor gloved employed having to check out the unidentified buzzing is just praying it is an electric toothbrush ;) Now the traveling public are going to be more likely to leave the batteries in Ralph, or Bubba or whatever moniker they've chosen and I think there are going to be a lot more vibrating bags :D

On Sunday, (because I work in DCA), I went to a TSA supervisor for a clarification of what the new ban is about. They knew absolutely nothing yet. On Monday, one of the higher ups came by my store and I was asking him for the clarification of the ban. He was just through down loading the directive on it and gave me a copy of it. It said that you can carry 2 extra lithium batteries in your carry-on and 2 in your checked bag and they must be either in something like the original packaging or in a plastic bag. So if you are carrying a camera and your cell phone you may have 1 extra battery for each. I have a Nikon which uses the single, flat type. In the directive, there was no mention of anything about something being over 5 grams, nor was there any distinction between lithium and lithium rechargeable.mI believe the directive was coming from DOT. So for those flying from DCA, I guess this will be the standard they will be using. Hope this is of some help.

On Sunday, (because I work in DCA), I went to a TSA supervisor for a clarification of what the new ban is about. They knew absolutely nothing yet. On Monday, one of the higher ups came by my store and I was asking him for the clarification of the ban. He was just through down loading the directive on it and gave me a copy of it. It said that you can carry 2 extra lithium batteries in your carry-on and 2 in your checked bag and they must be either in something like the original packaging or in a plastic bag. So if you are carrying a camera and your cell phone you may have 1 extra battery for each. I have a Nikon which uses the single, flat type. In the directive, there was no mention of anything about something being over 5 grams, nor was there any distinction between lithium and lithium rechargeable.mI believe the directive was coming from DOT. So for those flying from DCA, I guess this will be the standard they will be using. Hope this is of some help.So basically the "standard" is not what they are saying on the webpage.........

So, to give the appearance of complying, I'll distribute my DSLR batteries evenly throughout my checked and carryon baggage and continue to carry my toothpaste in my pocket. :rolleyes:

It is a good thing that the servicing we get from the TSA is totally unnecessary because it is totally pointless.

Scubatooth wrote:
Oh BTW if they start confiscating batteries how are they going to deal with them because if TSA does like they normally do and throw it away the EPA will take action because thats illegal as this is hazardous waste and has to be disposed of properly.[/QUOTE]

I see a new "Hazardous Waste Disposal Fee" being tacked on to our tickets, for the privilege of handling all those confiscated batteries:mad: How about $5 per flight/segment???

As for the mass revolt no-fly action.... I think the airlines will just get the lawmakers to authorize a US taxpayer-funded bailout. That'll learn ya!

I can recall only one instance where the TSA went far enough over the line to make people angry, and that was the short-lived breast exams of a few years ago. After two Russian airliners were bombed -- supposedly by Chechen women with explosives hidden in their bras -- the TSA decided to start examining women's breast areas. It began in September of 2004 (I believe) and was all over before Thanksgiving, because the traveling public -- both men and (especially) women -- were enraged. So don't be too sure that everything the TSA does will be accepted.

Bruce

And that happened because the Ma and Pa Kettles had to watch while their darling nubile daughters were felt up.

On Sunday, (because I work in DCA)...t said that you can carry 2 extra lithium batteries in your carry-on and 2 in your checked bag and they must be either in something like the original packaging or in a plastic bag. So if you are carrying a camera and your cell phone you may have 1 extra battery for each. I have a Nikon which uses the single, flat type. In the directive, there was no mention of anything about something being over 5 grams, nor was there any distinction between lithium and lithium rechargeable.mI believe the directive was coming from DOT. So for those flying from DCA, I guess this will be the standard they will be using. Hope this is of some help.

Oh dear. I'm afraid this just helps me feel worried.

If you read the TSA website, and the interpretations of it given by people upthread, it says something very, very different. If you follow the instructions given by your superior, you will be spending time searching people and perhaps confiscating expensive ($30+) batteries from people who are carrying batteries that fully comply with the TSA rules. They may have already gone through other airports without problems, because, again, they are fully compliant with the rules.

As mentioned, Mr. FlyingAway carries a larger consumer camera ("pro-sumer") that can use up multiple batteries per day doing ordinary tourist photography. He is *not* a professional A/V person, but he does have 3 extra batteries for his camera. Each is far, far under the "8 grams equivalent." He also carries a battery that is critical for his medical equipment, as well as the others mentioned upthread.

These comply with all the rules, but it appears that you--your airport--would have a problem with him. That is not good.

As my experience in Madagascar suggests, screeners can't comply with complicated rules re batteries. They don't know the difference between lithium, alkaline, Ni MH, and they sure don't have time to figure it out. They actually probably have a real job. So, yes, all of our batteries are at risk. And we who use pro-sumer cameras will probably experience the most seizures, because we don't have a job to point to as an explanation for why we're carrying the equipment. "I just want to" is no longer good enough in a world where freedom is considered disposable.

No, it happened because pat-downs are free and expensive backscatter devices will bring in millions of dollars of pork to the manufacturers. And because stupid people fell into the trap. What will Ma and Pa Kettle say when images of their colostomy-bagged grandparents are splashed all over the internet, courtesy of an "escape" from one of the digital images caught at PHX or elsewhere? It won't matter, the cat will be out of the bag. The TSA has never stopped any "security measure" because of public outcry unless there was a financial benefit out there for someone. Pat downs are free. Flyertalkers are a sophisticated bunch, and I'm surprised that some of you didn't realize that.

A pat-down is FAR less invasive of my body than backscatter radiation plus digital image of what I look like without my clothes and even, in the case of implants, inside of my clothes. But the stupid people hollered for the more invasive solutiion, as they always do. The manufacturers of backscatter devices knew that they could count on the stupid people hollering. All you need is to wine and dine the right people in the government to get some weeks or months of mandatory patdowns, and voila...the people themselves will cry out to be financially molested and the proof placed on a digital imaging device, where in theory it might be erased, but where in reality at least some of the images will get out and float around the world forever.

There isn't a nice way to say it, so I'll just say it. For my size and weight, I'm busty. Therefore I got a lot of pat-downs. I'm confident that my ta-tas haven't yet asphyxiated anyone and that they are not WMD. So I would rather skip the patdowns and the X-rays, backscatter devices, etc. But, given the choice, a patdown is by far the better option than exposing my breasts to unnecessary radiation and providing a digital image that may, or may not, be erased, depending on the goodwill and judgment of someone I don't know.

A woman employee of the TSA allowed her backscatter image to be placed online showing the test of the device -- and her lumpy body and uneven breasts. That told me all I need to know about her judgment (bad) and self respect (zero). I wouldn't expect her to treat a stranger better or to even understand why some people hold their bodies to be something private.







And that happened because the Ma and Pa Kettles had to watch while their darling nubile daughters were felt up.

I'm not feeling good about this. Our travel department has issued a warning/reminder that we are limited to 2 spare batteries in our carry-ons.

One of our folks was outbound to HKG yesterday. He's staying on for an extended vacation after his business is done. He'll be travelling in very rural parts of China. He carries three different Canon point-and-shoots. They 'allowed' him to choose which one of his three spares he could 'surrender' - an NB-5L. Not a cheap battery. TSO told him 'two spares'.

This was at SEA. :(

One of our folks was outbound to HKG yesterday. He's staying on for an extended vacation after his business is done. He'll be travelling in very rural parts of China. He carries three different Canon point-and-shoots. They 'allowed' him to choose which one of his three spares he could 'surrender' - an NB-5L. Not a cheap battery. TSO told him 'two spares'.

This was at SEA. :(

It appears my prediction came early. Jan 2 and already the first blatant abuse of power by the TSA.

When I travel I usually check one bag, carry on one bag, carry on a photo backpack, and carry on a small fanny pack with documents, glasses and misc.

Looks like I can pack two spare batteries in each for a total of eight spares.

Looks like I can pack two spare batteries in each for a total of eight spares.

Not if you run into the goon that chollie's coworker met.

Not if you run into the goon that chollie's coworker met.

I get the impression that chollie's goon was simply sniffing in one pack. I can always check dummy bags to get my spare batteries through. :D

I get the impression that chollie's goon was simply sniffing in one pack. I can always check dummy bags to get my spare batteries through. :D


I'm not sure how reliable that is. If I understand the new rules at all, they also apply (somehow) to batteries in checked baggage. My understanding is that batteries do show up fairly well on x-ray. If the baggage screeners see batteries in the checked luggage, will they be any better informed than the frontline folks about what's ok and what's not?

It appears my prediction came early. Jan 2 and already the first blatant abuse of power by the TSA.


In fairness to the TSO's, I have to say that the rules are virtually incomprehensible. The rules, however ridiculous and inconsistently applied, should at least be clear and unambiguous. TSO is an entry level position - it's probably not fair to expect a TSO to be a rocket scientist. Likewise, there's no requirement (yet) that an air traveller be particularly well-educated, well-informed or even intelligent. I think most folks 'get it' (liking it is something else) about water, guns, knives. I can see nothing but confusion with the way the battery thing has been presented. I think my co-worker probably ran into someone who was trying to translate horribly written requirements into something simple and comprehensible - and, unfortunately, wrong.

I'm not sure how reliable that is. If I understand the new rules at all, they also apply (somehow) to batteries in checked baggage. My understanding is that batteries do show up fairly well on x-ray. If the baggage screeners see batteries in the checked luggage, will they be any better informed than the frontline folks about what's ok and what's not?

AS I see it, there are two issues. Issue one is whether a specific battery is allowed. Issue two is how many batteries per bag are allowed.

Issue one seems to apply to big batteries, so I'm not too worried about the TSA confusing my camera batteries with those.

Issue two is just a matter of how many bags you need to fit the number of batteries you want to take and arriving in enough time to go through screening the requisite number of times. @:-)

I'm going to be traveling in some very cold and very photogenic places shortly, and I'm not going to let the fools at the TSA interfere with my photography efforts.

In fairness to the TSO's, I have to say that the rules are virtually incomprehensible. The rules, however ridiculous and inconsistently applied, should at least be clear and unambiguous.

Sorry, but I don't give TSO's or their immediate leadership any leeway or benefit of the doubt here. The policy for battery confiscation should be that at a screening manager must sign off on any confiscation and when it doubt, let it pass. From the rules I've read, no pax is even at risk of violating the carry-on rules unless they are carrying more than 2 5+ pound Li-ion batteries (the super-duper universal batteries). Any other unauthorized confiscation should result in a written warning (1st offense) and immediate termination (2nd offense).

The NB-5L battery that was reported confiscated in the above post was less than 5 Watt-hours (they are 3.7 V and usually spec at 1.2 or 1.3 Amp-hours). The rules indicate there are no carry-on restrictions of batteries under 100 Watt-hours. This incident is only the beginning, and it is a nightmare.

Between my laptop, camera, cell phone, and GPS, I travel with a minimum of 7 Li-ion batteries, none of which costs less than $50 at a retail outlet like Best Buy (much cheaper online or at ebay, and of course I know that). The largest of the batteries is less than 75 Watt-hours.

If any TSO tries to confiscate any of them, I intend to raise as much ruckus as possible and file an attempted-theft or theft report with the nearest LEO.

TSAers here, I know you didn't make the policy, but you still need to tell your superiors that this is unacceptable. :( :( :mad: :mad:

The tyranny of the bureaucrats continues to worsen; the USA is more like the USSR or GDR every day. (For those who weren't around for the Cold War: tyranny of the bureaucrats == over-powerful central government giving low-level workers arbitrary and capricious power over the day-to-day activities and freedoms of law abiding citizens. It wasn't the politburo that oppressed the citizens; it was the endless maze of low-level government workers.)

Agreed...this should be done (theft reports) in force by fliers for confiscations of ANY items not specifically prohibited.

A mass action like that will get someone's attention..whether or not it will result in change I do not know but as long as we keep standing by and taking it up the rear it will keep getting worse.

I know not everyone has the time but I always try to show up plenty early just in case this nonsense happens I won't be bothered by their threats of 'missing my flight' and I can deal with the issue...and it it goes smooth I can use my extra batteries to watch movies while waiting :cool:

On Sunday, (because I work in DCA), I went to a TSA supervisor for a clarification of what the new ban is about. They knew absolutely nothing yet. On Monday, one of the higher ups came by my store and I was asking him for the clarification of the ban. He was just through down loading the directive on it and gave me a copy of it. It said that you can carry 2 extra lithium batteries in your carry-on and 2 in your checked bag and they must be either in something like the original packaging or in a plastic bag. So if you are carrying a camera and your cell phone you may have 1 extra battery for each. I have a Nikon which uses the single, flat type. In the directive, there was no mention of anything about something being over 5 grams, nor was there any distinction between lithium and lithium rechargeable.mI believe the directive was coming from DOT. So for those flying from DCA, I guess this will be the standard they will be using. Hope this is of some help.

Wait, so I now need a freedom baggie for my extra laptop battery?

Sounds like the directive APWGirl refers to is the same one the SEA TSO referred to when he insisted on confiscating the third spare camera battery. (There were three cameras and three spare batteries, one for each camera). The TSO said the carry-on limit was 2 batteries, period, no mention of size or distinction between lithium metal and li-ion.

Also no mention of a limit of 2 batteries per carry on bag or the my co-worker could have shifted the extra battery from his camera bag to his rucksack.

Are these people giving up the batteries rushing to make a tight connection? If not I cannot see why they don't press the issue as the policy is on their side.

OK now this is really pissing me off. Even though I live in both the USA and Europe, when going on vacation I got to really rethink flying into the USA onto a vacation spot.
From these rules, my 7.4V canon batteries should be fine, even if I have 10 of em, but I know TSA are dumber than a rock and will not understand these rules and make me throw em away.
I got now 2 batteries that I cannot hide (unlike my spare laptop which hides nicely in a slot in my laptop) and I should be fine, but I also got a few AA batteries for a spare portable printer, and I have a feeling those stupid TSA people will have a fit.

Yep...I am in the same boat as you and I limit my trips to the USA to a bare minimum to avoid the nonsense. The freaking communist countries and African dictatorships I have flown to are less hassle.

lso no mention of a limit of 2 batteries per carry on bag or the my co-worker could have shifted the extra battery from his camera bag to his rucksack.

Since when does the TSA pay attention to which carryon belongs to which passenger? Once your coworker was tagged there was no recourse but to refer the issue to a supervisor. If the batteries were distributed -before- they went into the x-ray, no problem.

In fact, he probably could have said he would check the offending battery, left security, redistributed the batteries and re-cleared the checkpoint.

It appears my prediction came early. Jan 2 and already the first blatant abuse of power by the TSA.

Not that there were prizes for guessing correctly, anyways. Ultimately, we've all lost another one to They Who Shall Not Be Named. :(

In fairness to the TSO's, I have to say that the rules are virtually incomprehensible.

Fair? Fair?!? Ignorance of the rules and regs in an unacceptable defense. They're paid to know and enforce the rules, not just show up for duty. Comprehension of the rules is surely an absolute obligation? :confused:

Sorry for going off here, but I tend to get a bit shirty when folks show up to argue Is when the discussion's about Ought.

This is really unbelievable... both DoT for making rules that require mathematical equations to apply, and to communicating them so poorly, and to TSA for the implementation. I thought having pricey hair product confiscated was bad, but this is simply untenable in this day and age when people are carrying so many gadgets and the batteries required to make them work.

Bart? Anyone?

maybe i missed it if it was already posted, but does anyone have a link to the actual regulation(s) on the DOT website? i've seen the safe travel (http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html) page, which is not terribly illuminating, and the associated TSA page.

searching the DOT website is a pain.

Check the OP.

DOT Press release (http://www.dot.gov/affairs/phmsa1107.htm)

emphasis added


PHMSA 11-07
Friday, December 28, 2007
Contact: Patricia Klinger
Joe Delcambre
Tel.: (202) 366-4831


UPDATE:
US DOT Hazmat Safety Rule to Place Limits on Lithium Batteries Carried by Passengers Aboard Aircraft Effective January 1, 2008

Passengers will no longer be able to pack loose lithium batteries in checked luggage beginning January 1, 2008, once new federal safety rules take effect. The new regulation, designed to reduce the risk of lithium battery fires, will continue to allow lithium batteries in checked baggage if they are installed in electronic devices, or in carry-on baggage if properly protected from short circuiting in their original packaging or by placing them in individual plastic bags or a protective travel case.

Common consumer electronics such as digital cameras, cell phones, and most notebook computers are still allowed in carry-on and checked luggage. Moreover, any number of spare batteries for these devices will be allowed in carry-on baggage if they are properly protected from short circuiting and do not exceed 8 grams (~100 watt hours) of equivalent lithium content. Most lithium-ion cell phone and standard notebook computer batteries are below 8 grams (~100 watt hours) of equivalent lithium content. Batteries not installed in electronic devices are not permitted in checked baggage.

The rule limits passengers to not more than two large spare rechargeable lithium-ion batteries in carry-on baggage. This applies to batteries that exceed 8 grams (~100 watt hours) of equivalent lithium content and less than 25 grams (~300 watt hours). Batteries with more than 25 grams (~300 watt hours) are not allowed in either checked or carry-on baggage.

“Doing something as simple as keeping a spare battery in its original retail packaging or a plastic zip-lock bag will prevent unintentional short-circuiting and fires,” said Krista Edwards, Deputy Administrator of the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration.

Lithium batteries are considered hazardous materials because they can overheat and ignite under certain conditions. Safety testing conducted by the FAA found that current aircraft cargo fire suppression system would not be capable of suppressing a fire if a shipment of non-rechargeable lithium batteries were ignited in flight. This rule aims to reduce the risk of fires involving lithium batteries in the cabin of passenger aircraft.

“This rule protects the passenger,” said Lynne Osmus, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) assistant administrator for security and hazardous materials. “It’s one more step for safety. It’s the right thing to do and the right time to do it.”

In addition to the new rule, PHMSA is working with the FAA, the National Transportation Safety Board, the Consumer Product Safety Commission, the battery, consumer electronics and airline industries, airline employee organizations, testing laboratories, and the emergency response communities to increase public awareness about battery-related risks and developments. These useful safety tips are highlighted at the public website: http://safetravel.dot.gov/.

###

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/business/08road.html?ref=travel new business article in NY Times "More Caveats Than Clarity in Batteries-in-Baggie Rule" Jan 8, 2008, Joe Sharkey

"LAST week, I spent most of an afternoon trying to get a cogent explanation of a confusing news release issued late on the Friday before New Year’s by a mouthful of an agency called the United States Department of Transportation Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration."

Quite a few shots at the inept Patricia Klinger, Spokeswoman for US DoT and the confusing nature of this rule.

He askes for input if you've experienced a "lithium battery adventure at airport security"

Does TSA have any equipment that can distinguish type of battery based upon CT/Xray appearance in checked luggage? I mean how can they tell by the xray machine whether the bunch of AA batteries in your checked luggage are plain old Duracells, NIMH rechargeables or Lithium batteries? So, how are they going to tell or will they just open nearly every bag to see which battery is in there, as the only ones required to be carried on are the lithium type. You can check all the other types.

Any experiences yet, of bags being searched for batteries yet?

Does TSA have any equipment that can distinguish type of battery based upon CT/Xray appearance in checked luggage? I mean how can they tell by the xray machine whether the bunch of AA batteries in your checked luggage are plain old Duracells, NIMH rechargeables or Lithium batteries? So, how are they going to tell or will they just open nearly every bag to see which battery is in there, as the only ones required to be carried on are the lithium type. You can check all the other types.

Any experiences yet, of bags being searched for batteries yet?

We carried all of our "obviously" lithium batteries by carry-on, and the screeners didn't seem to look at those.

In our checked luggage we had a flash for the camera that contains 4 AA-style lithium rechargeables. i.e. not ones with exposed connectors.

When we packed, the batteries were in the flash, the flash was enclosed in the otherwise-empty cloth camera bag.

When we arrived home the flash was loose in the suitcase, it's battery compartment open, and the 4 batteries scattered around the suitcase. There was a TSA card in the suitcase.

The TSA may have left the batteries out of the flash, or, by not putting the flash back in the bag, the movement of the flash may have caused the battery compartment to pop open.

Either way, I think that was a battery search, and post-search the batteries were less protected than pre-search.

We carried all of our "obviously" lithium batteries by carry-on, and the screeners didn't seem to look at those.

In our checked luggage we had a flash for the camera that contains 4 AA-style lithium rechargeables. i.e. not ones with exposed connectors.

When we packed, the batteries were in the flash, the flash was enclosed in the otherwise-empty cloth camera bag.

When we arrived home the flash was loose in the suitcase, it's battery compartment open, and the 4 batteries scattered around the suitcase. There was a TSA card in the suitcase.

The TSA may have left the batteries out of the flash, or, by not putting the flash back in the bag, the movement of the flash may have caused the battery compartment to pop open.

Either way, I think that was a battery search, and post-search the batteries were less protected than pre-search.



Thanks for your post.
Amazingly, they are already breaking their own rules on traveling with lithium batteries, by taking them out of the device and putting them loose.

Truly great action by TSA... :td:

Thanks for your post.
Amazingly, they are already breaking their own rules on traveling with lithium batteries, by taking them out of the device and putting them loose.

Truly great action by TSA... :td:

And this will be used as justification to outright ban batteries. :rolleyes:

I already know the rules are not going to be consistently correctly applied.

(I have business (export) reasons to carry the following with me.)

Is anyone sure if the following is allowed:
- 5 checked suitcases full of laptops and other electronic devises, with about eight Lithium Ion batteries per checked piece. Every battery being under 8 grams of equivalent lithium content or 100 watt-hours.

I think it is implied that the above is allowed since they are all under 100 watt-hours, but I cannot find it clearly stated anywhere that this is allowed. Can anyone?

Moreover, any number of spare batteries for these devices will be allowed in carry-on baggage if they are properly protected from short circuiting and do not exceed 8 grams (~100 watt hours) of equivalent lithium content.

So this is clear I could take all 40 batteries out and fill my carry-ons with them.

We carried all of our "obviously" lithium batteries by carry-on, and the screeners didn't seem to look at those.

In our checked luggage we had a flash for the camera that contains 4 AA-style lithium rechargeables. i.e. not ones with exposed connectors.

When we packed, the batteries were in the flash, the flash was enclosed in the otherwise-empty cloth camera bag.

When we arrived home the flash was loose in the suitcase, it's battery compartment open, and the 4 batteries scattered around the suitcase. There was a TSA card in the suitcase.

The TSA may have left the batteries out of the flash, or, by not putting the flash back in the bag, the movement of the flash may have caused the battery compartment to pop open.

Either way, I think that was a battery search, and post-search the batteries were less protected than pre-search.

Hmm, I was not aware AA size lithium rechargeable batteries existed as loose cells. I thought there were only NiMh and Nicad as rechargeables. The only Lithium AA batteries I am aware of are primary (non-rechargeable) cells by Energizer, which I use quite a few of. Can you tell me what brand these batteries were? I would like to investigate them.

Also, what kind of strobe was this? Most strobes that hold single AA cells use (4) cells for a total of 6 volts (nominal), using either primary alkaline, non rechargeable lithium, or rechargeable NiMh, or Nicad.

Rechargeable lithium-ion chemistry is 3.6 volts, so typiclally come in assembled packs of 2 or more cells, not loose cells. If you could further clarify it would be helpful.

by enabling the batteries to roll around in your luggage after they ran thru the bags, is the TSA sending a message that you need to do something more than you thought you did, or are they screwing you over in a way by being too careless to repack things like that in a bag?

Saw this on the tsa blog at http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2008/01/lighters-nail-clippers-and-lithium.html and thought it was worth posting here. Emphasis mine:


Read the last line "TSA does not have plans to change security regulations for electronic devices powered by lithium batteries"

The FAA posted the Lithium rules. TSA is NOT changing it's procedures to do ANYTHING about Lithium batteries.

We initially recvd a notice telling us to screen for Lithium batteries. Within a day that was rescinded. We were told that it's NOT TSAs job to enforce FAA policeies. I'm surprised our extremely knowledgeable, hand picked bloggers aren't aware of TSAs own policies.


Make me wonder if that's why we only had two reports of battery-related abuse or potential abuse with regard to carry-ons at the checkpoint (camera battery confiscated at SEA and report from DCA that TSOs were told 1-spare-only). Maybe, just maybe, TSA knew better than to mess with this one.

I flew SEA-SFO-KOA on 1/8 and return on 1/22 with six small lithium camera batteries and was not questioned. I can see where there may be a problem with TSA interpretation as the regulations are being condensed to "two batteries allowed in carry-on"

From Port of Seattle SeaTac Airport web
http://www.portseattle.org/seatac/traveler/heightenedsecurity.shtml#battery

"New Regulation Bans Loose Lithium Batteries in Checked Luggage and Limits Number Allowed in Carry-Ons
A new regulation, designed to reduce the risk of lithium battery fires, took effect on January 1, 2008. Loose extended-life, spare rechargeable lithium batteries are no longer allowed in checked luggage and passengers are allowed to bring only two such batteries in carry-ons and they must be carried in either the original retail packaging or in a plastic zip-lock bag. "

John

It's funny how people are quick to jump and blame the TSA for their Moronic rules. When, in fact, the original link for this post takes us to a D-O-T webpage:(.

The TSA has recognized the implications of this rule and the inundation that it would create at screening locations. Besides, the rule is a bit foggy to say the least:confused:.

Apparently the DOT thought they would release a rule with little public education or training for the agency (TSA) that it would most affect:td:. This was not a well thought out move on their part and I think that it is only right of the TSA to not enforce (if at all) until the public has proper notice and is prepared to adhere to with little impact to air travel.