American Express Membership Rewards - Black Card Forum

Worst. Forum. Ever. I'd guess few are actual holders of Cent cards, given the way they talk about its ability to cure cancer.

For an example, check it out:

http://blackcardforum.com/index.php?topic=16.0

Having had a cent card since the inception, I can say with full confidence that out of the thousand or so times I've used it, it has been "recognized" maybe a dozen times, or at least called out and recognized. I've never received "tons of free food and drinks" - and who pulls out their card at the beginning of a meal?

I've taken to putting my card on the counter or on a check tray face-down because it seems to pretentious otherwise, but maybe that is a west-coast thing, or maybe I'm not hanging out with the kind of people that would be impressed by such overt actions.

I've probably swiped my cent card at more 7-11 stores than the marketing people would ever want to know. Lindsay Lohan may go on $50k shopping sprees, but I just used mine for a $7 burrito at lunch.

Ok, off my soap box. That site is sad, sad, sad.

What a load of rubbish.

That forum looks like some spoilt little rich kid forum where people can boast about what plastic daddy has managed to get them.

Amex loves that kind of customer though.. chuck loads of high spend through them because they can.

wonder why they made that forum..

its like a fake version of http://www.blackcardclub.com/ for internet trolls.. maybe it was started as a joke to begin with. :D

The only attention I ever received was when the titanium cards first came out, people did not understand why the card was so heavy. For the most part, people were not really that impressed with the card, though I do recall a few "is this a black card?" or "how do you get one of these?" I was never offered anything special or out of the ordinary just for having one, and by the way, simply flashing one at a crowded restaurant, nightclub, or concert will not get you any attention. I've gotten countless looks from hosts/hostesses thinking I was crazy when I would take out the card and ask if there was anything they could do to help me get in faster. At most, they say they'll see what they can do, but I'm led to believe if I said I was running a bit late and had a plane to catch, they would have said the same thing. Now whenever I see someone pay with one, I ask how they enjoy the Centurion services/amenities.

Of course I'm now a regular PLAT member and not a CENT any longer, so I'm very curious to know what people think of the card in terms of value. Very happy with my PLAT, though ^

I think this link was previous discussed here before.

Now, this one might also have been and I might have missed it:

http://www.amex-black.com/

wonder why they made that forum..

its like a fake version of http://www.blackcardclub.com/ for internet trolls.. maybe it was started as a joke to begin with. :D


Do many people actually belong to that club?

lol there's like 3 posts on the forum the op posted

all those posts seem like troll posts anyways

The only "special" experience I do encounter when paying with my card: bc it's all black the cashiers can't really locate the magnetic stripe and sometimes need 2-3 tries with this card reader device. This is annoying.

I've had the card for a year and a half, and have definitely gotten some special treatment, as well as crazy looks.

But last week was a new one. I bought gift cards for my senior staff, and the manager of the store was trying to get me arrested. She was certain that there was no such thing as a black Amex, and with all of the gift card fraud, it added up to a hero's congratulations for her (in her mind).

Before she called the cops, I suggested she call Amex. 20 minutes later I was on my way, with the gift cards.

Wow, that is a new one, aviators99. But that was a real slap in the face when she found out not only was there a such thing as a black Amex card, but that it carries more weight than any other card out there. :p

While I, as previously stated, never got any special attention (by the way, I've never had a store "close down" just so I could shop there; I don't know if this is a rumor or if something that could actually be arranged), I do recall at the Peninsula in LA a while back, a high-profile guest had requested to use the spa and steam room privately, so they were closed. Turns out that high-profile guest was simply a Centurion member, which to my surprise he had simply requested the spa be closed for him and the manager of the hotel had no problem. ^

(by the way, I've never had a store "close down" just so I could shop there; I don't know if this is a rumor or if something that could actually be arranged)
The way I understood it, some stores will hold Centurion-only events where they'll essentially close the store to all but Cent members (in general).

Seems unlikely that people who have no affiliation with AmEx at all, except for accepting it as a form of payment, would lavish free stuff on someone just because they had a certain charge card.

In fact, I'd expect the opposite to be the case. Maybe the service might be better, but only because the merchant has dollar signs in their eyes because they're hoping that you, as a vaunted black cardholder, are going to be spending a lot of money.

If they just give you everything for free, it sort of misses the whole point of accepting the card for payment, doesn't it?

Seems unlikely that people who have no affiliation with AmEx at all, except for accepting it as a form of payment, would lavish free stuff on someone just because they had a certain charge card.

In fact, I'd expect the opposite to be the case. Maybe the service might be better, but only because the merchant has dollar signs in their eyes because they're hoping that you, as a vaunted black cardholder, are going to be spending a lot of money.

If they just give you everything for free, it sort of misses the whole point of accepting the card for payment, doesn't it?

Yes and no. It's kind of the same thing as to why celebrities get free meals and products. They most certainly can afford it themselves, but offering something special will keep them coming back. If I were given a free meal at a restaurant (which I was a few times, not because of a CENT card but because of being a good customer), I am more inclined to keep coming back. With celebrities I think "swag" is given away to get the general public looking to buy something that celebrities have, but with a CENT card, I think it's more giving away free things to keep customers coming back.

Motorola has a "special" invite-only VIP boutique in LA that I was in a few years back, I don't remember exactly where it was (I was with someone), but it was on the second floor in downtown BH.

Basically they had all of their phones and products, and the VIP could walk in there and pick any product they wanted, and not only did they get it free, but Moto paid for all their service, too.

The idea was that celebs would be seen using the latest Moto Razr or something and get the commoners to want it, too.

Probably done with just about every consumer product.

I've had the card for a year and a half, and have definitely gotten some special treatment, as well as crazy looks.

But last week was a new one. I bought gift cards for my senior staff, and the manager of the store was trying to get me arrested. She was certain that there was no such thing as a black Amex, and with all of the gift card fraud, it added up to a hero's congratulations for her (in her mind).

Before she called the cops, I suggested she call Amex. 20 minutes later I was on my way, with the gift cards.

Oh oh oh, sue for false imprisonment, settle for the $2500 fee! :D

I got a kick out of this one. My partner and I were having dinner at Kobe restaurant in Lahina (its like a Beni Hana) and there was a young couple sitting next to us. We are 34 and 33 I would guess they were mid 20's. Anyway, we chat off and on through the dinner and discover that the guy is a Pastor of a church in Hawaii and they are both from the Southern US. We had a nice time and at the end of the meal the Pastor says, "May I ask you guys a very personal question?" My partner and I are both now rolling our eyes (not visibly) as we expect the question if we are a couple and the possible love or damnation that usually follows such a discussion. He then asks, "Is it true that credit card you used will allow you to buy ANYTHING you want?" I quickly internally debated explaining details of spending patterns and the options of other "unlimited" cards and decided a geeky credit card lecture was not appropriate. I just said, as long as Amex believes you will pay them back, they will let you charge it. Oh, and the Pastor invited us to come visit him and his wife on the big island if we get out there again. That was a nice surprise.

http://blackcardforum.com/index.php?topic=16.0


LOL. I just got curious who that poster could potentially be. She signed Evelina in one of her posts. My guess is its either her:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelina_Papantoniou (Miss Greece 2001, engaged to some billionaire)

or her:

www.evelinamanna.com (some Italian? French? supermodel/actress).

...providing that is her real name. Anyways, sorry for the OT post.

Probably not her. Wiki says she was born in '79, her profile says she's 24 as of 2007. But who knows, all of this is us speculating anyway. Oh, to me the poster also doesn't sound like a foreigner.

P.S. Greek Evelina is HOT! :D

Have been getting discounts at the MO in Hong Kong in the early days as well as in other establishments, that was after I was presented the bill and having descreetly slipped the card. Also discounted rare wine bottles. Smart move imo for return business. Now the card has become so common that it has been a long time since I've experienced this.

I have had the black card for a number of years, and fail to see that it provides much more than a Platinum. Although I was "grandfathered" at the original fee, they have told me I am going up this Spring. You don't cancel "grandfathering". That's why it is referred to in that way, often in legal documents. I won't waste space here decrying the failures I have experienced with it, versus what it is supposed to be able to do, although the most recent was typical. A week or so ago,I ordered 2 AMEX gift cards as Christmas presents. Calling the Centurion line, I was immediately transferred to the "gift card line". Among other things, they tried to hit me with several fees. When I mentioned I was Centurion, the lady didn't even know. They had just flipped the call over. I live in 3 states, and the cards were to be sent to Connecticut. I am in Florida for the winter, and a few days ago, checking my messages up north, I found one saying they couldn't send the gift cards, because Connecticut state rules forbid their sale. Huh? Hey guys, how about the computer telling you that when you enter the order....or maybe calling me in more than one place. They could easily have been sent to me in Florida. Bottom line, I had to scramble to find a replacement, in time. When I called Centurion to complain, the Customer Service person asked me, "why are you calling here? You should be talking to the gift card people." My response was that I saw that as customer service failure, and more to the point, what did she think her job was? I have finally concluded that AMEX now sees this as a product for someone who needs to tell the world they have some money (although, interestingly it seems quite a few of the holders I have run into actually hit their spend level by diverting business expenses, often reimbursed ,through the account). As such, they will pay a big fee. In most cases, a card like this would do anything to make sure they don't lose the spend, and bend on fees. AMEX, who are so arrogant, they have refused to take a call from me at TRS in New York,even though I have been a cardholder for 45 years, I think believes that anyone who downgrades will still keep a Platinum, so they won't lose the spend. They may be right. AMEX is probably the only remaining charge card that isn't a revolver, with late penalties, and limits. With that in mind, this one is meant to make money on the fees, and it is administered that way. I'm not Warren Buffet, but I don't feel the need to have the card at those rates. More to the point, it is insulting, especially when some drone in Ft. Lauderdale taunts you with, "if you give it up, it will cost you $5000 in new intitiation fees to rejoin". Watch me.

I have had the black card for a number of years, and fail to see that it provides much more than a Platinum. Although I was "grandfathered" at the original fee, they have told me I am going up this Spring. You don't cancel "grandfathering". That's why it is referred to in that way, often in legal documents. I won't waste space here decrying the failures I have experienced with it, versus what it is supposed to be able to do, although the most recent was typical. A week or so ago,I ordered 2 AMEX gift cards as Christmas presents. Calling the Centurion line, I was immediately transferred to the "gift card line". Among other things, they tried to hit me with several fees. When I mentioned I was Centurion, the lady didn't even know. They had just flipped the call over. I live in 3 states, and the cards were to be sent to Connecticut. I am in Florida for the winter, and a few days ago, checking my messages up north, I found one saying they couldn't send the gift cards, because Connecticut state rules forbid their sale. Huh? Hey guys, how about the computer telling you that when you enter the order....or maybe calling me in more than one place. They could easily have been sent to me in Florida. Bottom line, I had to scramble to find a replacement, in time. When I called Centurion to complain, the Customer Service person asked me, "why are you calling here? You should be talking to the gift card people." My response was that I saw that as customer service failure, and more to the point, what did she think her job was? I have finally concluded that AMEX now sees this as a product for someone who needs to tell the world they have some money (although, interestingly it seems quite a few of the holders I have run into actually hit their spend level by diverting business expenses, often reimbursed ,through the account). As such, they will pay a big fee. In most cases, a card like this would do anything to make sure they don't lose the spend, and bend on fees. AMEX, who are so arrogant, they have refused to take a call from me at TRS in New York,even though I have been a cardholder for 45 years, I think believes that anyone who downgrades will still keep a Platinum, so they won't lose the spend. They may be right. AMEX is probably the only remaining charge card that isn't a revolver, with late penalties, and limits. With that in mind, this one is meant to make money on the fees, and it is administered that way. I'm not Warren Buffet, but I don't feel the need to have the card at those rates. More to the point, it is insulting, especially when some drone in Ft. Lauderdale taunts you with, "if you give it up, it will cost you $5000 in new intitiation fees to rejoin". Watch me.

Deelmaker,

Thank you for sharing your story. I haven't lived through the old good times that you experienced, but I would like to share what I think about your story and the general picture behind the degradation of the customer service like the one that you have experienced.

What you call customer service is nothing but labor cost in viewpoints of companies like Amex, citi and so on, and now that part of the labor cost is ever increasing. This is why many of the phone line services of the banks and airlines went offshore to India and other countries with cheap labor cost.

A few years ago a new college graduate who went to work at amex got about 100K salary offer, which usually is matched by 100% annual bonus and usually the total labor cost, including employer provided health insurance, employer portion of social security, insurance, office facility etc, is about twice the nominal salary and bonus. Therefore, for his case, the total labor cost paid by amex to him is around 400K per year. A fresh new phone representative will get less than this number, but not much less than that given the high training cost and higher turnover rates across firms these days.

OK, now some simple math. The total cost for customer service is much higher than just labor costs paid to workers, but for the time being, let's ignore other non-labor costs keeping you as a customer. Given that you pay the centurion fee of 1000, one customer service representative has to deal with 400 customers annually just to make even, and given that an average worker works about 2,000 hours a year, if you take more than 5 hours of their time talking to you, investigating into your inquiries, following up the proceedings of the case and so on, then they made a loss on you. Note that I took nothing into account other than the labor cost associated with the customer service, and for them to make profit after paying for rents, taxes, marketing, big bonuses for the chairman and other top tier employees and decent dividend to shareholders, etc, it's a tough business to keep a decent customer service.

Recently amex is known for giving away 500 dollar credit limit skymiles credit cards to people with credit scores as low as 500, and I am pretty sure that amex makes much bigger profit out of the annual fees and interest charges from this group of people than from the centurion customers. And to keep luring these people into amex products, amex has an incentive to keep centurion programs and the like even though they don't make a big profit generating program per se to amex.

I am not suggesting that you should not complain about degrading customer service, but I merely suggest that you do not take the recent poor customer service for a centurion member from amex as a personal insult, but a result of changing labor market situation and business cost structure in this country.

You are missing a point here. Amex is creaming 2-3% in merchant fees, often more, on every $ charged. A Centurion card holder charging $300,000 pa is making Amex $6-$9k+ in merchant fees before you even begin to look at the card fee plus the commission they take on hotel bookings etc.

I don't believe for one minute that a customer services rep at Amex earns 100k per year, or in fact anything like that.

Senior positions and other non customer facing roles perhaps.

Deelmaker,

A few years ago a new college graduate who went to work at amex got about 100K salary offer, which usually is matched by 100% annual bonus and usually the total labor cost, including employer provided health insurance, employer portion of social security, insurance, office facility etc, is about twice the nominal salary and bonus. Therefore, for his case, the total labor cost paid by amex to him is around 400K per year. A fresh new phone representative will get less than this number, but not much less than that given the high training cost and higher turnover rates across firms these days.

I don't know where you are getting those numbers, but they are flat-out wrong.

Mike

Yes and no. It's kind of the same thing as to why celebrities get free meals and products. They most certainly can afford it themselves, but offering something special will keep them coming back. If I were given a free meal at a restaurant (which I was a few times, not because of a CENT card but because of being a good customer), I am more inclined to keep coming back. With celebrities I think "swag" is given away to get the general public looking to buy something that celebrities have, but with a CENT card, I think it's more giving away free things to keep customers coming back.
But there's a big difference between celebrities and the average centurion card holder: celebrities, as the name implies, are famous.

Knowing that some celebrity shops in a certain store or eats at a certain restaurant might encourage imitators to follow suit. And since the person is a celebrity (and recognizable by face), his movements are probably tracked and reported so people find out about this thing. So there's a lot of free advertising that is likely worth more than the cost of the free stuff given away.

Not the same with CENT card holders. Nobody knows or cares who some anonymous businessman is or where he eats. And nobody besides the waiter or cashier at the end of the transaction knows who has what credit card. Since this transaction isn't going to be reported in the tabloids, the value of the transaction to the merchant is mostly the value of the transaction - if you give the stuff away, you've blown most of the transaction value. Sure you want it to go smoothly so they'll tell their friends, but it's not like having your bakery featured on Sex and the City.

I agree that the point of treating customers well is to get them to keep coming back, but that's a hallmark of good business practice, regardless of what type of payment your customer is using. You want to treat good customers well, but any smart business would measure that by the transaction and relationship, not the form of payment (with the caveat that a cash or Visa/MC customer is actually worth a bit more than an AmEx customer for the same transaction volume).

I agree, lousy service is an issue everywhere, not just at AMEX. In my case, AMEX also refuses to let me speak with someone at TRS, where real decisions are made. The fact that they do this to a cardmember whose relationship began 45 YEARS ago, holds the highest level product they say they offer, and charges well into six figures, annually, sends a message. They don't care. They likely believe that even if we downgrade to a lesser card, they will still get the spend. They aren't very good, but they certainly aren't dumb. The Centurion, in its current form, has to be about fees for them That is why the inflexibility. Many of us were "grandfathered" on fee. In my case, I get the card for an annual fee of$1000,and my wife's is $500. That's $1500. If I were to stay, I'd drop hers, so that would put my annual fee at $2500. They are willing to lose thousands in merchant fees over a pickup of a grand, at most. That points to arrogance (they think I still have to use the brand in some form) and fees being the major thrust of this product. I find the cancelling of our "grandfathering" offensive. It's bad form. Whether you like it or not, it is a rare event to have something like that changed. More to the point, the card itself isn't good value anymore, especially given the poor service.

[QUOTE=DMSFCA;8931881]Worst. Forum. Ever. I'd guess few are actual holders of Cent cards, given the way they talk about its ability to cure cancer.

For an example, check it out:

http://blackcardforum.com/index.php?topic=16.0
/QUOTE]

If it is so bad, why start a thread promoting it?
Or maybe a better question is: why am I bothering to post this reply/


We wound up with a thread, that had a senseless beginning, then digresses into multiple random centurion musings, then ends in an equally useless fashion.

Do such threads make FT a more worthwhile resource?

Centurion is a limited distribution product, with a high curiousity factor, especially among those who don't use it. These Forums are always useful, and I like to think the majority of our participants are clever enough to follow topics they are interested in, whatever form they take. super-mileage fan, who expresses a high concern for orderly presentation, might want to consider a career in the janitorial area, an industry which places great emphasis on putting things in the correct receptacles.:D

deelmakur is constantly trying to steer people away from signing up for Centurion. I agree that it's a rotten situation to lose grandfather status, and he might be doing the right thing by cancelling (although I think we've heard about it enough times, already).

It is also interesting to look at it from the perspective of someone like me, who got the card in July 2006. That was after SPG Plat was discontinued, and after the fee went up. Since then, I have seen only improvements to the program:

1) Addition of USAir Platinum
2) Addition of Virgin Atlantic Gold
3) Addition of LXR free night
4) Addition of 6pm checkout at certain FHR hotels
etc.

Perhaps I'm just like a good speculator, and I "bought low". Perhaps I will be "riding the wave down" soon. But you can see how the perspective could be different, and as long as certain key elements remain intact I can live with certain others going away and being replaced.

I don't think Amex is targetting this card to people who would care about paying an extra $1500 in annual fees. And as has been stated many times here, they will easily make up for the people who leave over it by the people who stick with it. My country club dues go up by more than this amount, and they certainly aren't giving me *any* additional benefits.

I have been a loyal AMEX cardholder for many years...
What my thoughts are.. as a "black", previously "platinum", previously "gold" cardholder are that AMEX has gradually become a ripoff...
I have now cancelled all my cards- after 18 years- I will not re instate any of them- and I am really sorry, as I used to be the most loyal AMEX customer there is.. what I can tell you is that STOP using AMEX NOW!!! they have gone from 1st class customer service to worse than any VC or MC in the world that I know of.. sorry.. CIAO!

I have been a loyal AMEX cardholder for many years...
What my thoughts are.. as a "black", previously "platinum", previously "gold" cardholder are that AMEX has gradually become a ripoff...
I have now cancelled all my cards- after 18 years- I will not re instate any of them- and I am really sorry, as I used to be the most loyal AMEX customer there is.. what I can tell you is that STOP using AMEX NOW!!! they have gone from 1st class customer service to worse than any VC or MC in the world that I know of.. sorry.. CIAO!

You clearly haven't banked with BofA...

While I certainly believe that Amex holders are not receiving princely service, it is still of a relatively high quality for the meager $150 I pay for my Gld. (And I don't think it would be worse for Green, as I get the same on SPG.)

The problems I run into are mostly systems related, and that no amount of service could fix. (For instance the online totals are simply wrong sometimes, and nobody can explain why. The top page doesn't even match the detail pages.)

And for the Cent haters out there: I qualify but am to cheap to join. (However, I agree that it can be worth it for very frequent travellers.)

Deelmaker,
A few years ago a new college graduate who went to work at amex got about 100K salary offer, which usually is matched by 100% annual bonus and usually the total labor cost, including employer provided health insurance, employer portion of social security, insurance, office facility etc, is about twice the nominal salary and bonus. Therefore, for his case, the total labor cost paid by amex to him is around 400K per year. A fresh new phone representative will get less than this number, but not much less than that given the high training cost and higher turnover rates across firms these days.

Not even remotely close.

Last November I hired a new CS Manager directly from Amex.

She started in Amex CS in early 2005 at $33k per year. She was promoted to Centurion customer service a year later at $37k per year. When I hired her, she was making $39k per year as a Centurion CS Supervisor. Her bonuses every year were zero. This was for a U.S. based position. She has a BA from a US college and was hired at Amex directly after graduation.

$400k amex customer representative? no way in hell

Not even remotely close.
Yeah, that was pretty funny.

Maybe an MBA graduate joining American Express on the HNW wealth management side, but the idea of a customer services agent being paid even in that ballpark is ridiculous.

For what it's worth, I have a friend whose sister works at the Amex call centre in the UK - and its the same story there.