Korean Air Skypass - Korean Air Business class critique

Critique by me. I recently flew in "Prestige" (business) class on several segments of an RTW itinerary. The included medium haul (BOM-ICN), short haul (ICN-PEK and ICN-NRT), and long haul (ICN-SYD-ICN).

Overall, flight crews were excellent. I enjoy that the FAs and they have always been very gracious and nice.

The problems are with the service levels. I also flew business with AF, KL, and NW on this same itinerary so there is a basis to compare.

1. No amenity kits on any of the flights. This is completely unacceptable. They do give out slippers and shoe bags, but no ear plugs or eye masks on overnight flights? I flew KE in coach TPAC before and was given socks, ear plugs, eye shade, and toothbrush. Why isn't this offered in business? Razors, toothbrush, toothpaste, shave cream, mouthwash, etc. is offered in the lavatories.

2. No cocktail service. Pre-poured, non-alcoholic drinks were brought around on trays at various times during the flight, but any request for anything else (i.e. a cocktail) must be initiated by the passenger. Wine is served during meals.

3. All of the seats were old-style. While I must say that they are cushy, the pitch and recline is way below par.

4. IFE was AWFUL. The only flight that had PTVs was ICN-NRT which was too short to matter. ICN-SYD-ICN offers DVD players (not Digiplayers) ONLY if you ask. Two of us asked for them and watched the same movie. My battery died before the first movie was finished, while my partners skipped very badly.

5. Korean meal was Bibimbap EVERY time. While I enjoy bibimbap, I certainly don't want to eat it on every segment, and it is almost exactly the same as the coach offering except that it's in a ceramic bowl (rice still served in styrofoam). Why not offer something else for the Korean meal sometimes? Bulgogi anyone? In contrast, the Japanese dinner I was served on NW ex-NRT was extremely elegant, with lots of very high quality ingredients.

I know that the service offerings on US flights are different (at least seats and AVOD), but boy was I disappointed by the Prestige class product.

Thanks for the critique.

I have the ICN-SYD and return on the same flight in later January. I've been on the old 747-400 flights before, and the whole experience is just less than average (to be polite). Do you recall if they have any power in the seats? I'm thinking no, which means my Ipod won't even hold out for the duration of the flight. Guess I'll have to carry an extra for the ten hours across to Sydney and back!

I fully share spgaston's experience. A couple of weeks ago I was on various KE flights, among which was ICN-NRT (KE805 iirc). It was a 747 with the new Business class seats. Other flights on 777-200 series metal had the old seats, though.

Thanks for the critique.

I have the ICN-SYD and return on the same flight in later January. I've been on the old 747-400 flights before, and the whole experience is just less than average (to be polite). Do you recall if they have any power in the seats? I'm thinking no, which means my Ipod won't even hold out for the duration of the flight. Guess I'll have to carry an extra for the ten hours across to Sydney and back!

There was no in seat power supply on any of the routes I flew. I believe that is only available on the refurbished routes.

To be fair, KE does offer something that no other SkyTeam carrier offers; a "pre-drink taste" or something like that (basically an amuse-bouche).

What do you mean by pre-drink taste??

There was no in seat power supply on any of the routes I flew. I believe that is only available on the refurbished routes.

To be fair, KE does offer something that no other SkyTeam carrier offers; a "pre-drink taste" or something like that (basically an amuse-bouche).

What do you mean by pre-drink taste??

Like I said, basically an amuse bouche (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amuse_bouche).

Oh. tre-cool ;) Sorry, I'm new to this world of Luxury Air Travel :o

Like I said, basically an amuse bouche (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amuse_bouche).

In Prestige class, I wish their glasses for juice were larger. You basically run out of juice on the first sip. This really hinders one's enjoyment of the meal when they have to ring their call button every 30 seconds for a refill. It also wastes the flight attendant's time as well.

Take a look in trip reports section.. I posted at TR for an Intra Korea flight....
and stay tuned for my next TR ICN-TPE-ICN-LAX

Is it safe to assume that the service in biz class is the same, even with the new seats? When are they suppose to be finished upgrading their seats?
Jaas

From What I understand, most of the fleet that was scheduled from retrofit and some of the older 747-400's are being passed over for retrofit because one their first A380 come online in the next 1 or 2 years. KE is going to start converting some of their passenger 747-400's to all-cargo and by about 2011 or 2012, all but their newest 747-400's will have been converted to All-Cargo Layouts due to the A380's and 787's replacing their roles and some of the older 777's by then will be most likely moved to Dense Inter-Asia routes due to the A380's or 787's taking away many routes where the 77 would normally fly,,, thus getting rid of the 777s on thouse routes maybe..... No as to the service standards. Korean Air's goal is to constantly improve their Service. From what I have been seeing about Korean Air and its image in Korea and how Koreans feel about KE.. They want to use KE as a way to say... look at where we have come from the Korean war and after the war in 1969, even when the country was still in high Poverty and was almost one of the poorest countries at the time when Korean Air was founded. In the past 35 to 40 Years, South Korea has improved greatly on the backs of the likes of Hyundai Heavy Industries, Daewoo Motors, Korean Air, etc. They want to become the next best Airline in Asia.. for most of the 70's 80's and 90's SQ was the best and still is (add your own opinions here) This is where the goal of Korea is aimed. KE want's to surpass SQ. This is proved by the fact that the South Korean Government is still poring multi-millions of US dollars into the recently (in 2002) opened Seoul/Incheon Airport.. Currently the airport has two runways and one terminal, but right now they are in the works to construct a second concourse and 2 new runways which will be finished by June/July 2008. Then by 2009, the airport will be linked straight to downtown with rapid-transit. By 2020, they will also add two more satellite terminals. Incheon can currently handle 30 Million passengers annually and about 4.5 Million metric tonnes of cargo. By 2020, they plan to increase this to 100 Million Passengers and about 10.5 Million Metric Tonnes of Cargo. :eek: They are really trying to Position Incheon as a new hub for Cargo and Passengers.. Eventhough the numbers arent there,, im sure they are though,, and i know they probably are no matter what.. you know.. as they say.. if you build it, they will come...:eek:

So therein lies my response. They want to build KE up further to become the biggest player in East Asia in the future for Cargo and Passengers. Currently their cargo fleet has about 23 747-400's and 2 A300-600's, but by 2020, the rest of the 8 remaining A300's lef tin pasx service will be converted to cargo and their 23 passenger 747's will all have fully been converted over to cargo.. so then they will have... 46 747-400BRF converts. and then will have received as well as all of their ordered 747-400ERF. Maybe also a few of their oldest A330's will be converted to Cargo. They will over time take on more A380's ,787', probably next gen. 737's and (my wish showing here) maybe the 747-800 :D :) So.. this shows where KE is heading, of course with this, includes improving service standars and everything else in the airline. Also, let me remind you folks, Incheon, from what i've read, is the only Airport in Asia that is certified for CAT IIIb approaches at the moment. Also, the runway lightings at Incheon International Airport as well as the taxi lights are tied into special computers in the control tower. As a result, the Air Traffic Controllers can easily provide progressive taxiing to an aircraft by setting the computer to manipulate the taxi and runway lights so that it guides them to their designated gate or parking stand. or the otherway around.. to their takeoff runway. Pretty trendy if you tell me.



Is it safe to assume that the service in biz class is the same, even with the new seats? When are they suppose to be finished upgrading their seats?
Jaas

From What I understand, most of the fleet that was scheduled from retrofit and some of the older 747-400's are being passed over for retrofit because one their first A380 come online in the next 1 or 2 years. KE is going to start converting some of their passenger 747-400's to all-cargo and by about 2011 or 2012, all but their newest 747-400's will have been converted to All-Cargo Layouts due to the A380's and 787's replacing their roles and some of the older 777's by then will be most likely moved to Dense Inter-Asia routes due to the A380's or 787's taking away many routes where the 77 would normally fly,,, thus getting rid of the 777s on thouse routes maybe..... No as to the service standards. Korean Air's goal is to constantly improve their Service. From what I have been seeing about Korean Air and its image in Korea and how Koreans feel about KE.. They want to use KE as a way to say... look at where we have come from the Korean war and after the war in 1969, even when the country was still in high Poverty and was almost one of the poorest countries at the time when Korean Air was founded. In the past 35 to 40 Years, South Korea has improved greatly on the backs of the likes of Hyundai Heavy Industries, Daewoo Motors, Korean Air, etc. They want to become the next best Airline in Asia.. for most of the 70's 80's and 90's SQ was the best and still is (add your own opinions here) This is where the goal of Korea is aimed. KE want's to surpass SQ. This is proved by the fact that the South Korean Government is still poring multi-millions of US dollars into the recently (in 2002) opened Seoul/Incheon Airport.. Currently the airport has two runways and one terminal, but right now they are in the works to construct a second concourse and 2 new runways which will be finished by June/July 2008. Then by 2009, the airport will be linked straight to downtown with rapid-transit. By 2020, they will also add two more satellite terminals. Incheon can currently handle 30 Million passengers annually and about 4.5 Million metric tonnes of cargo. By 2020, they plan to increase this to 100 Million Passengers and about 10.5 Million Metric Tonnes of Cargo. :eek: They are really trying to Position Incheon as a new hub for Cargo and Passengers.. Eventhough the numbers arent there,, im sure they are though,, and i know they probably are no matter what.. you know.. as they say.. if you build it, they will come...:eek:

So therein lies my response. They want to build KE up further to become the biggest player in East Asia in the future for Cargo and Passengers. Currently their cargo fleet has about 23 747-400's and 2 A300-600's, but by 2020, the rest of the 8 remaining A300's lef tin pasx service will be converted to cargo and their 23 passenger 747's will all have fully been converted over to cargo.. so then they will have... 46 747-400BRF converts. and then will have received as well as all of their ordered 747-400ERF. Maybe also a few of their oldest A330's will be converted to Cargo. They will over time take on more A380's ,787', probably next gen. 737's and (my wish showing here) maybe the 747-800 :D :) So.. this shows where KE is heading, of course with this, includes improving service standars and everything else in the airline. Also, let me remind you folks, Incheon, from what i've read, is the only Airport in Asia that is certified for CAT IIIb approaches at the moment. Also, the runway lightings at Incheon International Airport as well as the taxi lights are tied into special computers in the control tower. As a result, the Air Traffic Controllers can easily provide progressive taxiing to an aircraft by setting the computer to manipulate the taxi and runway lights so that it guides them to their designated gate or parking stand. or the otherway around.. to their takeoff runway. Pretty trendy if you tell me.
About the schedule of the retrofit, all B747-400s are due to be converted to cargo and will be replaced by A380s and B777-300ERs, meaning that all retrofits of the 747 has been stopped. New B777-200ERs already has the new product configured, while the old ones will be retrofitted soon, so as the A330s and B777-300s, according to this thread I opened in September:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=735606

I also found an official press release on the Thales website:

http://www.thalesonline.com/Press-Room/Press-Release-search-all/Press-Release-search-result/Press-Release-Article.html?link=460c2f31-6138-6822-7201-02100a017b5a:central&locale=EN-gb&Title=Korean+Airlines+selects+the+Thales+In-Flight+Entertainment+System+for+its+Boeing+and+Air bus+aircraft&dis=1

From my understanding of the article, 10 new B787s, 23 B777s (compromising 9 old B777-200s, 4 B777-300s and 10 new B777-300ERs) and 19 A330s will get that new Thales IFE system (as well as the new product) starting in March 2009 (I'm not sure if it's referring to the deliveries of those new aircrafts OR the delivery of the first IFE system.). So we will expect two different IFE systems (Panasonic and Thales) in the future KE fleet.

Please feel free to correct my analysis.

btw, Merry Christmas FTers! :D

I just did LAX-SEL in C in a refitted 744 with the new seats and IFE. The seats don't go fully flat but they're pretty nice. No privacy screen between seatmates though. That might explain the center console being higher than the outboard armrest. Full power outlets, 110-220 and usb, were available in the seats but I did not test them.

The IFE was good but just short of topnotch. A few of the musical selections were mislabeled and, being smitten with IPOD and google, there wasn't quite enough information on the tracks to my likeing. There was no way to pause the 'my favorites' list; you just had to start over at the beginning after say, checking the flight progress. Good selection of movies with the ability to pause. The FF and rewind were a bit imprecise though.

Cabin service was enthusiatic. The food was adequate - nothing special. The steak I had was small and stringy, not plated separately. The roll I got was warm but dried out. The seafood skewer for dinner was dried out and strangely mushy at the same time. Again, not plated separately. It goes without saying they do their national dishes better. Bibimbap anyone?

I didn't expect an amenity kit so wasn't surprised when none was offered. I prefer the stuff in my carry on anyway. Nothing like a molded neoprene sleep mask. I agree it's strange that economy gets an amenity kit though.

You do have to ask for some things. There was wine with meals but I asked and did receive a glass of champagne with dinner. I only tried the Bordeaux but it was thin and unimpressive. Strangely, I got a craving for chocolate but they couldn't find any. Instead got some Korean sweets and leftover Haagen Daz, not chocolate.

I found English skills drop off dramatically once you land. The ticket jacket I originally received from Delta (codeshare) fell apart. At the Incheon Prestige lounge I asked for a stapler to repair the ticket jacket and they started to head off for the coat room until I stopped them and made the 'universal stapler sign' pantomime.

Overall, B+. While I haven't flown Singapore if they're the benchmark they don't have any serious competition yet.

Jim

I don't find the lack of an amenity kit on KE to be an issue since most of the stuff in an amenity kit is already available in the lav. I usually snag a toothbrush early in the flight just in case they run out, but I've only seen them run out once on my flights.

I agree with one of the above posters about the quailty of the Bordeaux, I found it to be really unimpressive and only had one glass. I'll just stick to cocktails.

The IFE on the old style seats is pretty sad, but the longest flight I've had to deal with it is 3 1/2 hours. I don't find the AVOD and new seat aircraft to be bad at all.

Now, I must admit, I'm not doing a lot of comparison shopping since when I pay for flights I normally stick to Skyteam when possible. Amongst Skyteam carriers that fly US-Asia then I think KE is just fine. Recently I was on a UA award ticket and got a look at the new SQ C seats and was jealous... they are the widest seats I've ever seen, like little couches... but since I have to choose between Skyteam or *A, Skyteam works best for me domestically and therefore is where I earn most of my miles.