Starwood Preferred Guest - Sheraton Portland, ME becomes a Wyndham with no advance warning

I WAS going to stay at the Sheraton Portland, ME tonight. I was heading up early just to add a stay to a day trip up to my Maine office to get one more status stay for the year. Turns out the hotel became a Wydham last week and I was given no warning :td:

I canceled the stay and when to the Hilton Garden Inn.

I made Plat status with over 50% of my stays at the 4 Point Milwaukee Airport, the Sheraton Portland and the Sheraton Omaha. All of these hotels have left SPG in the last year. :rolleyes:

did you have a reservation and they didn't warn you? that's not good.

william has said in the past that they can't make many announcements when properties change hands, but once it's happened you probably should have been warned (by wyndham?).

I WAS going to stay at the Sheraton Portland, ME tonight. I was heading up early just to add a stay to a day trip up to my Maine office to get one more status stay for the year. Turns out the hotel became a Wydham last week and I was given no warning :td:

I canceled the stay and when to the Hilton Garden Inn.

I made Plat status with over 50% of my stays at the 4 Point Milwaukee Airport, the Sheraton Portland and the Sheraton Omaha. All of these hotels have left SPG in the last year. :rolleyes:


You were given no warning? Humm....This information was NOT a surprise and was discussed here on FT on or around December 1.

Don't you love the search feature? ;)
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8873910&highlight=portland#post8873910

Based on statements in that thread it appears the transition might not have been handled well.

Question: When you made booking/attempted to book, were you on SPG or were you directed to the Wyndham site? Or were you trying to book via the phone?

Booked via SPG.com on December 2nd.

This is old news... it was discussed a while back. Unfortunately, there was no announcement of this change on the Sheraton website; not even the day before. One day it (the Sheraton South Portland) was there, the next day it was gone. (William already discussed this before and this is the legal practice in the lodging industry). The Doubletree Hotel in Portland (not too far from the Sheraton) was also gone in an instant last November. Ahhhhh, the hotel industry and its surprises! :rolleyes: Again, because of legal "stuff", the business is left unscathed, but the consumer is not...

Booked via SPG.com on December 2nd.

My apologies if this caught you unaware, but the hotel left the family of Starwood hotels and resorts on December 7th.

By policy, if this was a paid-rate stay, then the hotel should have contacted you prior to deactivation to let you know their status. If it was an award stay, you should have received notification from Starwood Preferred Guest.

However, because of legal restrictions, we (Starwood & SPG) are often prevented from contacting anyone at all until the very day the property deactivates. Regrettably, some folks who are on the cusp in either direction cannot be notified in a timely manner for this reason.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

Booked via SPG.com on December 2nd.

Then the transisition "team" f----d" up!

As William has stated in the past, sometime its difficult for properties to inform guest "in advance". I know it doesn't make you as a guest feel any better, but it is what it is.

My apologies if this caught you unaware, but the hotel left the family of Starwood hotels and resorts on December 7th.

By policy, if this was a paid-rate stay, then the hotel should have contacted you prior to deactivation to let you know their status. If it was an award stay, you should have received notification from Starwood Preferred Guest.

However, because of legal restrictions, we (Starwood & SPG) are often prevented from contacting anyone at all until the very day the property deactivates. Regrettably, some folks who are on the cusp in either direction cannot be notified in a timely manner for this reason.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

William,

Why are so many hotels leaving SPG? My travel has changed and I now spend 10+ nights a year in each of four locations. Omaha, NE, Portland, ME, Albany, NY and Milwaukee, WI.

As of right now, the only city on that list that has an SPG hotel is Milwaukee!

William,

Why are so many hotels leaving SPG?...

Might as well ask me why there is air. ;) They come and they go as they please in a free market economy. Try as I may to convince them that this is a dictatorship and no one can do anything without my permission, they just thumb their noses in my face. :)

Seriously though, I'm sure it is all based upon solid business decisions. It could just be they don't feel like they need to be associated with Starwood or Starwood Preferred Guest in order to thrive. If you thought you could run a successful hotel business without having to pay the fees associated with frequent stay programs and franchise licensing/managment fees, would you continue to do so anyway? I don't think so.

Anyway, what I've learned about all this is that when one leaves another usually comes along to take its place. Maybe not in the short-term, but we never seem to lose a market presence completely for very long.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

A little insight into hotel rebranding from my corner of the world.....

I live in PWM about 3 miles from the much maligned former Sheraton S Portland. In this case, Starwood had made it known to local government for some time (since 2005) that the property was aging and in real need of significant capital improvement. (They were negotiating for lowered taxes.) At that time, it also became public that the hotel was very much for sale, but few interested buyers came-a-knockin'.

Fast forward to a few months ago when a qualified and interested buyer presented itself and ultimately made an offer that was accepted. While I haven't investigated this buyer much, I wouldn't be surprised if they already had a relationship with the Wyndham brand and had sought out mid range properties that might be ripe for conversions in key markets. It doesn't take much imagination to realize this has been going on for decades. Heck, throughout the 1970s, Days Inn grew exponentially by taking old, dated Holiday Inns that were no longer meeting their franchise quality requirements and converting them (very cheaply, I might add) to newly minted Days Inns. Four Points went on to do a fair amount of that sort of thing, too.

Anyhoo -- I don't think it's so much that hotel owners are running away from *wood in droves. I think it's regular market energies at work and there just happens to have been a flurry of them in recent weeks.

A good question might be this: were the Portland and Omaha Sheratons really living up to the brand standard that Sheraton should be? No, they were not. I'd like to think that some of the reason that these properties are no longer with Sheraton is that it was made clear that neither was fit to continue as a Sheraton without significant (complete) overhauls. The buyers saw fit to move in a different direction.

...pay the fees associated with frequent stay programs and franchise licensing/managment fees,...

Those fees are not low at all ;)

A good question might be this: were the Portland and Omaha Sheratons really living up to the brand standard that Sheraton should be? No, they were not. I'd like to think that some of the reason that these properties are no longer with Sheraton is that it was made clear that neither was fit to continue as a Sheraton without significant (complete) overhauls. The buyers saw fit to move in a different direction.

I would say that the Omaha and Portland Sheratons were some of the best domestic SPG properties I've stayed at. Upgrades routinely happened for Plats, Portland had a great club lounge and a good staff, points - including the plat amenity posted without problems.

I would say that the Omaha and Portland Sheratons were some of the best domestic SPG properties I've stayed at. Upgrades routinely happened for Plats, Portland had a great club lounge and a good staff, points - including the plat amenity posted without problems.

They might treat PLT's well but I don't think that's what makes them a good property or not to the brand manager. In fact, in many cases, the worse the hotel, the better they treat PLT's. Thriving, busy properties don't need to go above and beyond the minimum to keep their rooms filled at high rates.

I would say that the Omaha and Portland Sheratons were some of the best domestic SPG properties I've stayed at. Upgrades routinely happened for Plats, Portland had a great club lounge and a good staff, points - including the plat amenity posted without problems.

Tell me more about your experiences at the Portland Sheraton. I have hosted scads of meetings at this place and finally my clients and my own staff came to me and flatly stated that the time had come to go elsewhere.

With respect, I'm wondering if something changed since I was last in this hotel's club lounge. Back in the spring of this year, it was a vacant room with a tiny sitting area and a college-sized fridge with sodas and waters for the taking. Is that the same lounge you're talking about? If so, I'm interested in why a non-staffed, exceptionally small lounge made it a "great club lounge?" In my experience, it would've rated in my bottom two.

I've done my share of defending the Sheraton Portland over the years (read my ancient posts here on FT), but this is the first time I've read anyone declaring that the old place was "one of the best domestic SPG properties."
It was a 1974 Category 2 round hotel. It had a total of two suites, one in each tower.

Wow, didn't realize that the Sheraton Omaha switched...that was my favorite Sheraton in the system, and if I am back in Omaha I'll forego *wood points to keep staying there.

Anyway, what I've learned about all this is that when one leaves another usually comes along to take its place. Maybe not in the short-term, but we never seem to lose a market presence completely for very long.


Since I'm in the Portland area often and that there is no longer a Starwood, how is it possible not to stay with the competition; Marriott or Hilton? I mean each rival has a least 5 properties in the Portland area...
Now my main question; is your above statement a hint that we could soon get a Westin, aLoft or even an element in Portland, Maine. Give us some hope, please! :)

well if SPG brings a property back to the PWM area.. and I hope that they do.. just don't bring back the prior PWM Sheraton staff.. they can stay with Wyndham and we'll all be better off for it

regarding OMA, that was a bummer for me too, I used to use that property to get SPG stays, it was decent enough and an older type property with a really neat old style restaurant.. that was a bummer to see go as well and unlike PWM, they did have a good staff at least from my stays there

...Now my main question; is your above statement a hint that we could soon get a Westin, aLoft or even an element in Portland, Maine. Give us some hope, please! :)

No, no hints at all. Believe me when I say that I am the last person at Starwood to know anything about newly-developing properties that may or may not be on the horizon. It is just the voice of ten year's of experience in seeing them come and go. :)

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I understand that sometimes... actually most of the time a property is not allowed by law to announce their change of brand, owner, etc... But why is it that sometime they can? I've seen some SPG properties with this kind of announcement on their webpage; Effective December 14th, 2007 this property will no longer be associated Starwood Hotels... and so on; like the Sheraton Nashua a while ago. The Sheraton Nashua & Sheraton South Portland were both owned & managed by Starwood and not just managed by Starwood. However, they were treated differently in their change of hands. What gives?

I understand that sometimes... actually most of the time a property is not allowed by law to announce their change of brand, owner, etc... But why is it that sometime they can? I've seen some SPG properties with this kind of announcement on their webpage; Effective December 14th, 2007 this property will no longer be associated Starwood Hotels... and so on; like the Sheraton Nashua a while ago. The Sheraton Nashua & Sheraton South Portland were both owned & managed by Starwood and not just managed by Starwood. However, they were treated differently in their change of hands. What gives?

If the hotel or Starwood (and frankly most of the time it is just Starwood and not the property itself) is prevented from commenting publicly about a hotel leaving, it is because it is written into either the franchise agreement or the management agreement or the purchase agreement. Starwood is legally bound to follow the tenets of these contracts. On the other side, my best guess is that most hotel owners are concerned that their revenues will take a hit from folks cancelling when the disassociation is announced. It might also be that nothing final has really been decided and nothing can be said with any certainty until the ink is dry, so why say anything at all until the time is right?

Regardless, you cannot look at this situation as a once-size-fits-all scenario. I've seen us ask for permission to notify, been refused, and then seen a press release from the hotel owner announcing the change the next day. Then I've seen others that say by all means do so and others that say no word until we're gone. I guess to know for sure, you would have to ask them why that is because I certainly don't know. If it were my hotel, I would let everyone know as soon as I could to lessen the impact on my customers. After all, they are going to be my customer and not Starwood's after the hotel deactivates and I would like to retain their business. But, clearly, some don't get it for whatever reason.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

MKEBound, please keep your travel to those 4 cities listed above. It appears to me that you have a knack for making SPG properties want to leave SPG after your stays! I can not afford to lose some of my other favorites! I would tell you which ones those are, but I am afraid you may go there, and next time I return, they may be gone!

MKEBound, please keep your travel to those 4 cities listed above. It appears to me that you have a knack for making SPG properties want to leave SPG after your stays! I can not afford to lose some of my other favorites! I would tell you which ones those are, but I am afraid you may go there, and next time I return, they may be gone!


ROFLMAO! I almost lost my soda! ^^

MKEBound, please keep your travel to those 4 cities listed above. It appears to me that you have a knack for making SPG properties want to leave SPG after your stays! I can not afford to lose some of my other favorites! I would tell you which ones those are, but I am afraid you may go there, and next time I return, they may be gone!

on the flip side, will MKEBound please come to the Reston Sheraton!!!

on the flip side, will MKEBound please come to the Reston Sheraton!!!
What is the upside for us SPG types in having any property quit the team, whether good, bad, or indifferent? If the Reston property, of which I have no personal experience, were to leave the family fold, do you think another would take its place as an SPG property there? If you don't like an SPG property, then by all means complain and consider staying elsewhere, even with a non-SPG hotel, but why hope to see any go?

I've found that when a franchise decides to put a lot of money into a renovation they often change brands. It may not have anything to do with the performance of SPG, they want to send a signal that there's a new sheriff in town (often when there really isn't! :D )

4pts Milwaukee wasn't one of the better ones either.

The good thing is that at least with Starwood it is generally bad hotels that leave. It's sad to lose options and chances for cheap stays with good upgrades, but at least it's not generally the best hotels defecting. Whereas Radisson seems to lose the best of its domestic properties regularly.

I'm not thinking of going into the hotel business, but it would be interesting to know how much it costs a franchisee to do business as an Starwoord property vs another chain (e.g., Wyndham, Radisson, etc.) property. Anyone have any knowledge of these matters that they might share. Are the costs to do business as a Starwood property mostly fixed (fixed number of $s according to size and category or other considerations) or variable (i.e., per customer for reservations system, number of SPG points handed out, etc.)?

The Doubletree Hotel in Portland (not too far from the Sheraton) was also gone in an instant last November.The Doubletree is also gone??? What's in its place?

I'd like to think that some of the reason that these properties are no longer with Sheraton is that it was made clear that neither was fit to continue as a Sheraton without significant (complete) overhauls. The buyers saw fit to move in a different direction.I didn't realize that the Sheraton South Portland is now a Wyndham until about 10 days ago. When we tried to see what the rates were for next week, we saw that the property wasn't part of the Sheraton website. So we called the generic Sheraton cust service line. They said that they didn't know why the property wasn't online and gave me the local number in South Portland. When Wyndham answered, I had to wonder if Wyndham joined *wood. Of course they hadn't. I called cust svc back and another rep gave me the same local phone number for the Sheraton South Portland. Do these agents not know what's going on with their own company??

The Doubletree is also gone??? What's in its place?

Doubletree reflagged as a Clarion. Ouch.

...Do these agents not know what's going on with their own company??

Obviously not...even though it says in black letters on a yellow background, "This property is no longer part of the Sheraton chain" when you bring it up in the reservation database.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

guest.forum@starwoodhotels.com

I'm not thinking of going into the hotel business, but it would be interesting to know how much it costs a franchisee to do business as an Starwoord property vs another chain (e.g., Wyndham, Radisson, etc.) property. Anyone have any knowledge of these matters that they might share. Are the costs to do business as a Starwood property mostly fixed (fixed number of $s according to size and category or other considerations) or variable (i.e., per customer for reservations system, number of SPG points handed out, etc.)?
Among the major brands, it's not all that different, particularly for just a franchise agreement. For management agreements there is probably a little more variability, particularly with respect to the amount of money the brand company is willing to invest alongside the owner to assist with renovations etc.

That said, there are a lot of reasons hotels change brands and the owners choose one over another. And sometimes it's the brand's decision to kick a hotel out, and other times its the hotel's decision to leave.

And with respect to these hotels leaving the Starwood system "in droves" I would point out that the company's net room counts continue to grow quarter after quarter -- so there are always more rooms entering the system than leaving it. I think Sheraton just announced two former Adam's Mark hotels (Dallas and Denver) will be converting to Sheratons.

William,

Why are so many hotels leaving SPG? My travel has changed and I now spend 10+ nights a year in each of four locations. Omaha, NE, Portland, ME, Albany, NY and Milwaukee, WI.

As of right now, the only city on that list that has an SPG hotel is Milwaukee!

Let's keep this all in perspective. The Wyndham Washington is now the Westin Washington DC City Center, so sometimes a Wyndham becomes an SPG hotel. Also, downtown Minneapolis had NO SPG hotels in April 2007. By September 2008, it will have 4 SPG hotels: Westin, Ivy Luxury Collection, W Foshay, and Aloft.