Online Travel Booking and Bidding Agencies - Deceived by Hotwire - advice, please

I searched for a hotel in the Paris area on hotwire, and was offered a 4 star in the CDG area for $96. It also said on the booking page that the retail rate of the same hotel is $161.34 (a 40% discount). After I did book, the hotel (Radisson CDG) turned out to be available for $111 at pretty much any transparent booking website (on the other hand, the Hyatt CDG is available at precisely $161.34 on e.g. expedia).

I checked hotwire's T&Cs, and there is no mention to the retail rate and discount information (i.e. no disclaimer saying it's only for guidance and doesn't have to be true, etc).

I would like to get a refund since I made this purchased based on false information, and I'm ready to dispute the charge with my CC, but I am worried since my stay is in only 3 days and I won't have resolution from either hotwire or my CC in such a short time. Should I simply not show up and book my accommodation elsewhere? Do you believe I have a very clear case and my CC will reverse the charges for sure if I do so? I've made screen captures of all the information (including the Hotwire advertisement of a 40% discount which turned out to be a 13% discount).

FYI, here's the e-mail I'm planning to send to hotwire (I'm currently traveling and it's a bit difficult to call them).

Thanks!



Dear Hotwire Customer Support,

I am writing in regard to Hotwire itinerary xxxxxxx with confirmation code xxxxxx. This is for a stay at the CDG area in Paris for a 4 star hotel for one person; I was booked into the Radisson SAS CDG, from December 14 to December 16.

On the search results page, it said that the retail rate for each night is $161.34 and that I am saving 40% (the Hotwire rate per night was $96). After completing the booking and learning the name of my hotel, I did check the retail rate at several booking sources. At the hotel's own website, it is 91 euros including taxes and fees - or $135 at today's exchange rate, substantially less than the claimed $161.34 retail rate (which I presume does not include taxes, since the Hotwire rate it is compared to does not). At both Expedia.com and Travelocity.com, two leading online hotel booking websites, the rate before tax was less than $111 per night. In all cases I checked rates specifically for the dates I booked through Hotwire and the same number of guests (one). I do have screen captures of all the information I have just given.

The 40% discount with respect to the retail rate was the leading reason while I booked this particular option and why I booked through Hotwire. Although the Hotwire rate is still somewhat cheaper than the rate available through any popular retail booking source (or the hotel itself), it is only between 13% and 14% cheaper. And unlike retail rates, Hotwire rates carry additional restrictions, like non-refundability and impossibility to earn frequent stay points. Therefore, a 14% discount (15 dollars per night before tax) does not offer, to me, enough incentive to book a Hotwire rate and I would have not booked this stay had accurate information been shown at the Hotwire web page at the time of my booking.

I do understand mistakes happen and I am sure this was due to an inadvertent programming issue, and Hotwire is not purposefully deceiving its customers. However, given the preceding information, I urge you to cancel my reservation immediately and refund the amount paid. Should I not get resolution before the starting date of my stay (December 14), I will NOT show up at my hotel and will dispute the charges with my credit card company.

I kindly ask you to forward this e-mail to your supervisor or to the appropriate department, should you not be able to address this issue as requested.

With my best regards,

iwillflytheworld

IMHO you don't have any case to make a claim - as I would not be surprised if the retail rate indicated was that from the hotel's own web site. It is your responsibility to check-out all options when booking a hotel (or whatever).

I have another tail of woe with Hotwire and for this reason would never ever use them again. I booked a rental car recently for 1 week in Salt Lake City for what looked like a very reasonable price ($US 180 per week). As it turned out the car was from Avis - however in the 'fine print' it indicated that insurance was not included - something I did not notice until after I had booked. Well when I turned up at Avis in SLC I asked about the insurance cover - I had assumed that at least third party was included and that more coverage would be extra. Well to my surprise absolutely NO insurance was included and Avis were quite willing to let me drive away with NO insurance whatsoever. Now as I live overseas (Australia) - my credit and/or own car insurance does not include insurance on rental cars - not even in Oz. Well - even basic coverage from Avis was $250 for the week - clearly I had no option but to take this up. What really irked me was that I could have rented a car from the Avis web site with insurance for much less than the $180 + $250 which I did pay.

For this reason I would never ever use Hotwire - your example of the hotel price for an unknown hotel is another reason I have (previously) steered clear of Hotwire. For hotels in Europe I have always found otel.com to give the best deals (much better than expedia for example) - their quoted rates always include all taxes and a full breakfast for 2 (what can easily cost 50 euros in European hotels). Also, if you "join" otel.com as a registered user you get a 5% rebate on all booking which is credited towards your next booked - this adds up when you're staying in many hotels. Finally their cancellation policy is very generous - eg full refund if you cancel within just a few days of your stay.

IMHO you don't have any case to make a claim - as I would not be surprised if the retail rate indicated was that from the hotel's own web site. It is your responsibility to check-out all options when booking a hotel (or whatever).


Actually the hotel's own rate including taxes is $135 (vs Hotwire's claimed $161 before taxes). I forgot to mention this in my OP, and agree that it's an important piece of information.


For hotels in Europe I have always found otel.com to give the best deals (much better than expedia for example) - their quoted rates always include all taxes and a full breakfast for 2 (what can easily cost 50 euros in European hotels). Also, if you "join" otel.com as a registered user you get a 5% rebate on all booking which is credited towards your next booked - this adds up when you're staying in many hotels. Finally their cancellation policy is very generous - eg full refund if you cancel within just a few days of your stay.

Thanks for the recommendation, will check it out!

Whether it is fine print or not... it IS there. I can't see that "they" did anything wrong really...of course it is your decision whether to use them again or not...

I have never used opaque sites for car rental over there.. simply because:

"Insurance" is not provided on ANY rental cars in the USA in the sense that Aussie rental cars are insured...

I doubt what they sold you was actually insurance.. it was probably a "CDW/LDW".. A waiver of their right to hold YOU responsible for any and all costs associated with damage to the vehicle (including loss of use!!!) As you discoverd it can really add up! (USD$12 to USD $ 25 per day is the range I've seen) Other liabilities are generally covered by any decent travel insurance.... but not the car itself!!!

It is the biggest single difference between car rental here, and car rental there. It has cost some folks $$$$$$, when they declined the waiver...and then had a prang...

If you are interested, try www.cheap-car-rental.com Rates are decent and INCLUDE CDW from the start.... In fact the rates are NOT available to US residents...(:confused:)

Hi trooper - agreed but I think that Hotwire should make the issue absolutely clear to overseas customers. Also, I still cannot believe that Avis would let anyone drive away without any type of cover (whatever you call it) - particularly what we call "third party" - ie cover if you injure another person. Some people may decide to "self-insure" the car itself thinking their liability is limited to the value of the car but injury to a third party can result in millions in damages !!

As far as cheap rental cars go - I have always found in the past that the large companies (Avis, Hertz, Budget, Europcar) are highly competitive so have always used them directly in the past. And in spite of the large number of traveller complaints about rental car companies, I have always found these to be the least risky and hastle all round. Also, you can cancel and amend your booking up until the last minute - a convenience which is worth paying a little more for.

I would always argue the "up to us/caveat emptor" line in the final analysis....:rolleyes:... but I can only agree that it would be "nice" or "helpful" if ALL travel providers in countries like ours (where rental cars ARE insured) gave some sort of emphasis to warnings of that nature.... some don't even seem to know! Try finding travel insurance here that DOES cover the car - as in comprehensively.. "Oh yes Sir, the 3rd party liability and excess is covered!".. GRRR.. NOT what I was asking about!!!:(

(I even tried to get a BofA VISA so I'd have "cover'!:D)

Of course many booking engines WILL show only "all inclusive - CDW included" rates when you click on Australia as the place of residence (pretty sure National does)... so yes, at least some of the "majors" can be quite easy to use too....

So I suppose sites like Hotwire are the most problematic.... as I am too chicken to use them I haven't run into that problem!!;)

Well, I decided to stay at the Radisson on the hotwire rate, since trying to argue my point and/or book alternative accommodation would be too much of a hassle since my stay starts in two days. This sucks though and if my stay wasn't so close I would definitely fight this.

Unlike the car rental discussion, the information I was given (and based on which I made my purchase) is outright incorrect, by a large margin, no matter how you define "retail rate" (i.e. own hotel or standard market rate). In addition there is no small print or mention to this in the T&Cs, so I still believe I would have a strong case to dispute the charge.

After the stay I will ask for a partial refund (Since they promised 40% off the retail rate, I will ask that they charge me 60% of the actual retail rate). I'm not expecting to succeed, but I'll make my point. Needless to say, no more Hotwire for me, ever.

Just to put in my perspective - Most frequent travelers do not book a hotel room based on the fact that it's 40% off the regular price so it must be a great deal and that's why I should stay there. It's usually a mix of location, price and quality. I can't understand why the discount is grating the OP's nerves! It's an advertisement of a possibility which is abundantly clear as the exact hotel being booked wasn't known until after the booking. IMHO - you always take your chances with hotwire, priceline, etc. I always have an idea of what area I need to be in and how much I'm willing to pay. From a traveler point of view, did you get the area and quality you were promised for the price you were told you were going to pay? If the answer is yes, I don't feel you have a gripe with hotwire and you should put your valuable time towards another battle.

:eek:Your points are very valid, furthermore.... the OP stated that in the end he found a different price for $111, less that the $161 and some odd change. He paid $96 and he is stil moaning about this. He still got it for a discount. There's no reason to complain. Whatever discount I get no matter how big or small.. I feel happier knowing I got some service or product less that what "The going rate" was. :D^

Just to put in my perspective - Most frequent travelers do not book a hotel room based on the fact that it's 40% off the regular price so it must be a great deal and that's why I should stay there. It's usually a mix of location, price and quality. I can't understand why the discount is grating the OP's nerves! It's an advertisement of a possibility which is abundantly clear as the exact hotel being booked wasn't known until after the booking. IMHO - you always take your chances with hotwire, priceline, etc. I always have an idea of what area I need to be in and how much I'm willing to pay. From a traveler point of view, did you get the area and quality you were promised for the price you were told you were going to pay? If the answer is yes, I don't feel you have a gripe with hotwire and you should put your valuable time towards another battle.

Deleted

Just to put in my perspective - Most frequent travelers do not book a hotel room based on the fact that it's 40% off the regular price so it must be a great deal and that's why I should stay there. It's usually a mix of location, price and quality. I can't understand why the discount is grating the OP's nerves! It's an advertisement of a possibility which is abundantly clear as the exact hotel being booked wasn't known until after the booking. IMHO - you always take your chances with hotwire, priceline, etc. I always have an idea of what area I need to be in and how much I'm willing to pay. From a traveler point of view, did you get the area and quality you were promised for the price you were told you were going to pay? If the answer is yes, I don't feel you have a gripe with hotwire and you should put your valuable time towards another battle.

I agree. A huge discount may mean nothing. A low final price is what I am looking for ... and $96 would be OK for me, that's only about Euro 66. I always look (for fun) at the prices shown in the room (at the door or so). They mostly are ridiculously high. I have paid $100 and the price on the door was $320 or so. BTW, I know the Radisson CDG. It's OK, but not great. It's "behind" CDG and they have a shuttle. The Hyatt CDG he is mentioning, is a real nice and stylish hotel.

This thread is unenecssarily confusing. The OP asked about a hotel at CDG and we should limit the discussion. If you have a problem with a car rental, start a new thread. Anyway, Hotwire should be good to you on the phone - keep trying. I received a hotel from Hotwire and paid less than the going price but the retail they quoted was much higher, and I had expected a better property. So I called to complain. The agent said the "retail price" is an average of many properties and not the one I was at but he offered me a $25 credit. He also said the credit was small and he could transfer me to a supervisor. She told me the same story and offered me the choice of cancelling with no penalty or keeping what I had and getting a $150 credit (it was a multi-day booking). Fair enough. Hotwire customer service is usually excellent. Give them a chance.

I received a hotel from Hotwire and paid less than the going price but the retail they quoted was much higher, and I had expected a better property.


Finally someone who gets my point ^


So I called to complain. The agent said the "retail price" is an average of many properties and not the one I was at but he offered me a $25 credit. He also said the credit was small and he could transfer me to a supervisor. She told me the same story and offered me the choice of cancelling with no penalty or keeping what I had and getting a $150 credit (it was a multi-day booking). Fair enough. Hotwire customer service is usually excellent. Give them a chance.

Thanks for the advice, now that I'm home (for a day) I'll give them a call.

:eek:Your points are very valid, furthermore.... the OP stated that in the end he found a different price for $111, less that the $161 and some odd change. He paid $96 and he is stil moaning about this. He still got it for a discount. There's no reason to complain. Whatever discount I get no matter how big or small.. I feel happier knowing I got some service or product less that what "The going rate" was. :D^

The reason I'm moaning is very simple. I saved $15+taxes per day, but in exchange I have a non-refundable, non-upgradeable, non-points earning reservation, and many hotels give hotwire/priceline customers their worst rooms and service. Yes, I know those are the rules of hotwire (well, not the part about bad rooms, but hotels do it anyway). But it's still worth it for me if the discount is substantial, especially for a two-day airport stay. For a $15 discount, however, I would have rather booked through transparent sites. You're not comparing apples to apples when you say that I got it for a discount.

By the way, according to B1, hotwire says that the percentage off they advertise is from an average of properties. This is never indicated in their website (not even in any fine print) and certainly it is not what one would infer using common sense. The fact that B1 was offered the chance to cancel and compensantion, proves that they know they are deceiving their customers (but still make a profit from the deceiving advertising, even after compensating the small minority who complains).

Finally someone who gets my point
I think most of us got your point right away but just disagree with it! :D

I don't put too much faith in "retail" prices quoted in situations such as this one. They are usually highly inflated to make the "deal" sound much better than it really is. I don't think Hotwire is unique in this regard.

Here's hoping you get some relief for your complaint using the good counsel you've gotten here, though!

I, too, find this practice deceptive. For a random Seattle 4* I just pulled up, Hotwire states the following under "Hotel Details":

$119 per room per night
Retail: $209.00
You save: $90.00

Next to this, there is a big yellow star that indicates "43% savings" -- and if you click on that star, you see the following:

You'll pay $119 per night for this room -- 43% less than the retail rate of $209.00.

There is no disclaimer that this statement refers to overall, year-round, average 4* prices, and I would say that a reasonable customer should be able to expect that such a detailed statement refers to actual savings. Hotwire might be well-advised to adopt more general language ("Hotwire customers save an average of 43% on Seattle hotels," "Hotwire hotel prices in 2007 were 43% lower than the average Seattle 4*," etc.)

.....Hotwire might be well-advised to adopt more general language ("Hotwire customers save an average of 43% on Seattle hotels," "Hotwire hotel prices in 2007 were 43% lower than the average Seattle 4*," etc.)

There is no need for this .. at least not for me!
I don't reserve a room because I "save" xyz%. I check the Internet for the best possible price and reserve a room. BTW, I have never booked a room at Hotwire, never got the best possible price ....

I have had very good experiences with Hotwire and Priceline. But I will no longer use HW for hotels because they have their own * rating system that defies logic to me.

I will use PL for 3 or 4 * hotels only and I have only had one (out of about 40 bookings) where the hotel was DEFINITELY not 3 star. This year (calendar 2007) I saved over $7000 on hotels using Priceline and over $2000 on car rentals using PL and Hotwire.

This is my ritual for hotel rentals:

Use hotels.com, google maps, and/or yahoo maps to get a general idea of the retail rates near my biz location
Take 25% off the retail price for moderate accomodations
Use this amount to bid for 4 star hotels (3 star if no 4 star available)
80% of the time I am delighted at the hotel that accepts my bid. 15% of the time I am quite satisfied. 3% of the time I say "oh well, its a gamble". 2% of the time (only once) I note not to us PL for that geo.


For car rentals I find them both fantastic. No, they don't include insurances... but then again when I get a quote directly from any rental agency on line I get the no-insurance-included amount and then I am given the option to add the various insurances. Often this more than doubles the total price.

So when I am looking for a car deal I do the following:

Check HW for rates they are offering as "Hotwire Specials" for compact and economy cars.
Based on the HW daily rate for low end cars I start bidding several dollars lower on Priceline for full-sized cars.
If my bids are never successful, I take HW's offer on the full-sized rate. ALWAYS (at least with me) a great savings over direct booking.
Whether my bid at PL was successful or I resorted to HW, I call AMEX and get the purchase covered with AMEX Premium Car Rental Protection.


I find AMEX's premium protection to be great. It is $24.95 per rental (NOT PER DAY) for any rental up to 21 days. (I don't have all the specifics of the coverage handy but I will get to claims later in this post.) If I book with any rental agency directly the $24.95 is automatic. But if I use HW or PL the automatic charge is missed very often by AMEX since the charge shows up as "Hotwire Purchase" or "Priceline RNTL Purchase". So to be sure I am covered I call AMEX before I pick up the car.

I have used the AMEX insurance twice. Neither time was my personal insurance provider involved. AMEX paid everything but the rental car companies own "administrative fees". Hertz had a ridiculous admin fee so I avoid Hertz now. Thrifty 's fee was more reasonable as it was about $250 which I think of as a "deductible". When the accidents happened I called AMEX from the site, gave them the relevant information, they gave me a case number and then I took the car back to the agency. I gave the agencies (Hertz and Thrifty) the AMEX case number information and was off in another car in less than 40 minutes. I never heard anything else with the exception of the bill for the "deductibles" I mentioned above. (My personal insurance covers everything BUT the damages to the actual car I rent. But neither accident involved anyone being injured.)

All in all I find it a much better deal to waive all coverages with the agency; get AMEX's premium coverage for the very reasonable $24.95 per rental; cover myself if I use an opaque agent; and take the savings and spend it on ME!

I also look at what I save based on other websites... and not the percentage they quote.

You never know what source they are using for that rate... I doubt they are lying... may be the rate they have available or rack rate or some other rate.

Sounds like you got a good deal... really see no reason for a complaint.

They offered you a deal... and you agreed to it... i personally do not see the percentage savings comment as part of the agreement.

William

The reason I'm moaning is very simple. I saved $15+taxes per day, but in exchange I have a non-refundable, non-upgradeable, non-points earning reservation, and many hotels give hotwire/priceline customers their worst rooms and service. Yes, I know those are the rules of hotwire (well, not the part about bad rooms, but hotels do it anyway). But it's still worth it for me if the discount is substantial, especially for a two-day airport stay. For a $15 discount, however, I would have rather booked through transparent sites. You're not comparing apples to apples when you say that I got it for a discount.


My opinion is that if you are savvy enough to be doing a cost-benefit analysis on the benefits vs. burdens of using Hotwire vs. other sites, you should also be savvy enough to determine the actual retail rates in the area and figure out how much you're REALLY saving instead of relying on the "retail" prices posted on Hotwire and Priceline (which, no doubt, are pure salesmanship) to determine that.

Also, for the uber-savvy Hotwire user, there are sites which allow you to get a guesstimate of which hotel you may receive in a zone, based on the amenities shown!

I still cannot believe that Avis would let anyone drive away without any type of cover (whatever you call it) - particularly what we call "third party" - ie cover if you injure another person. Some people may decide to "self-insure" the car itself thinking their liability is limited to the value of the car but injury to a third party can result in millions in damages !!

That is true; however, in a majority of U.S. states, those damages would not be due from Avis (even if they own the car) but exclusively from the driver of the car. So, if you take one of their cars and kill someone, all they would be concerned with is, how badly did you dent the hood and when can they start renting it again.

There are a few exceptions to this (I believe New York is one of the exceptions, not sure of the others) which have what is known as "strict liability", in which the owner of a car can be held liable for damages caused by the car. However, in most states the law is not written this way and the owner of the car bears no risk for damages caused by the driver of the car. In those states, rental companies do generally include some minimal amount of liability protection in the base rate, precisely to protect themselves. In other states, they would not do so because there is no need.

That may be one reason they're willing to let you drive away without liability coverage.

i don't think you got the best possible deal but i also think you don't have any hope in hell disputing your CC charges

We all know when using priceline/hotwire etc that it can be a crapshoot at times

just put it down to experience

The supposed retail prices quoted on bidding pages by Priceline are also fantasy. I have been bidding for a 4* hotel in the Tampa airport zone and PL pops up with a statement on the bid page a few minutes ago that 4* hotels in Tampa usually go for $336! Yet some recent bidders got the 4* Hyatt (the only 4* hotel currently available in Tampa) for only $80. Those inflated rates are there just to entice an inflated bid out of us. Ignore them. Those prices are meaningless. Look for yourself.