Northwest WorldPerks (Discontinued Program) - Any word on whether NW will match CO and only give 50% elite credit for cheap fares?

CO announced today that effective 1/1/04 (7/1/04 for tickets purchased at CO.com) the lowest priced fare classes will only earn 50% mileage for elite qualification purposes.

Any word on whether NW is going along with this change?

You have to believe the pressure from DL and CO to follow suit will be extraordinary. I presume WorldPerks members flying DL/CO will earn only 50% of miles flown when booking discount fares. If NW doesn't go along, that would create a huge disincentive to book any but NW flight numbers, which stresses the alliance.

It don't look good.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by thesilb:
CO announced today that effective 1/1/04 (7/1/04 for tickets purchased at CO.com) the lowest priced fare classes will only earn 50% mileage for elite qualification purposes.

Any word on whether NW is going along with this change?</font>

The DL infuence showing??

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mdb:
The DL infuence showing??</font>

Of course. Even though according to posters on the DL board, DL execs privately acknowledge the SkyMiles changes have gone way too far, repelled too much revenue and hurt the airline.

The thing is, I think NW has been the most pro-customer carrier since 9/11 (with UA and DL tied for most anti-customer) and it will be interesting to see if and how they knuckle under now.

I just got off of the phone with a WP supervisor. She said," ...at this time there are no plans for NW to follow suit. Of course, that is always subject to change." You WP P,G,&S's need to get on the phone and/or write to WP to keep them from stooping to DL/CO's level!

I was discussing the proceedure for a hopeful comp to NW Plat - or maybe a switch at the gate starting next year.....

This is the beginning of the end for CO - I am sure glad I don't own any CO stock!

K

Please write NW WP customer relations emphasizing your loyalty and your future loyalty if NW keeps their current policies.

- Pat

[This message has been edited by Wiirachay (edited 09-16-2003).]

It would be utterly stupid for Northwest to embrace the Delta model.

NW gained a significant amount of business from disgruntled DL pax. NW's policies are fair and clearly understood. They provide a mechanism for rewarding those who spend more, the stated goal of the revisions at DL and presumably CO.

Of course, getting airlines to do something intelligent would be absurd.

Maybe we should start firing off letters just a preemptive move. Just a thought.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by umguy:
Maybe we should start firing off letters just a preemptive move. Just a thought.</font>


I just did.

Looking at the three programs, NW has always been a different type of program for FF. For years, you could only qualify for elite though butt in seat miles. Now they have added a segment qualification, but that is only for B+ fares. I think the system that NW has is probably the most fair out there, with AA and UA having the next best. Now for a little analysis.

NW -- 25/50/75 mile qualification
Bonus miles for First/BIZ and Full Y
Segments qualify 20/40/60 on B+

UA -- 25/50/100 mile qualification
No bonus for First/BIZ full Y
Segments qualify 30/60/100

AA -- 25/50/100 mile qualify
EQM based on fare paid qualify seperately from butt in seat miles
Segments 30/60/--

DL -- 25/50/100 mile qualify with elite mileage awarded based on fare paid. some fares earn 50%
segment qualify 30/60/100

CO -- 25/50/75 mile qualify with lower fares earning 50% eqm.
Segement qualify 30/60/90 lower fare earning no segments, higher fares earning double segments.

The end result is that NW/AA reward their flyers for loyality no matter how it comes. The provide a benefit, i.e. faster/easier qualifying, to those who spend more money on their tickets, but still recognize that a person flying a lot on cheap tickets provides a lot of revenue to the airline. (i am not refering to mileage runs)

UA while not enhancing the higher fare flyers isn't upsetting the low fare flyers, by denying them priveledges for staying loyal to UA.

DL/CO -- Enchance the discount frequent lesiure traveler/or the cost conscious biz traveler, while praising the high fare traveler.

I have nothing against an airline wanting to give benefits to the higher paying traveler, but they shouldn't do this at the expense of frequent travelers that aren't able to buy the high $ tickets.

In the end, I don't think NW will end up going this route. They have always been good to their the FF's and will find other ways to enhance the priveledges of the high end flyers, without alienating the rest of the crowd.

Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MSY-MSP:
Looking at the three programs, NW has always been a different type of program for FF. For years, you could only qualify for elite though butt in seat miles. Now they have added a segment qualification, but that is only for B+ fares. I think the system that NW has is probably the most fair out there, with AA and UA having the next best. Now for a little analysis.

NW -- 25/50/75 mile qualification
Bonus miles for First/BIZ and Full Y
Segments qualify 20/40/60 on B+

UA -- 25/50/100 mile qualification
No bonus for First/BIZ full Y
Segments qualify 30/60/100

AA -- 25/50/100 mile qualify
EQM based on fare paid qualify seperately from butt in seat miles
Segments 30/60/--

DL -- 25/50/100 mile qualify with elite mileage awarded based on fare paid. some fares earn 50%
segment qualify 30/60/100

CO -- 25/50/75 mile qualify with lower fares earning 50% eqm.
Segement qualify 30/60/90 lower fare earning no segments, higher fares earning double segments.

The end result is that NW/AA reward their flyers for loyality no matter how it comes. The provide a benefit, i.e. faster/easier qualifying, to those who spend more money on their tickets, but still recognize that a person flying a lot on cheap tickets provides a lot of revenue to the airline. (i am not refering to mileage runs)

UA while not enhancing the higher fare flyers isn't upsetting the low fare flyers, by denying them priveledges for staying loyal to UA.

DL/CO -- Enchance the discount frequent lesiure traveler/or the cost conscious biz traveler, while praising the high fare traveler.

I have nothing against an airline wanting to give benefits to the higher paying traveler, but they shouldn't do this at the expense of frequent travelers that aren't able to buy the high $ tickets.

In the end, I don't think NW will end up going this route. They have always been good to their the FF's and will find other ways to enhance the priveledges of the high end flyers, without alienating the rest of the crowd.

Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. </font>


I hope you are right. One advantage here is that NW could, if it sticks to its guns, also lure the disgruntled CO pax to NW.

I just sent in my suggestion ("don't change to match CO or DL!") through the "Talk to Us" link.

Even though NWA has traditionally been customer friendly when it comes to their frequent flyer programs, now that CO and DL are aligned with NW in terms of marketing I think all bets are off when it comes to the future of WorldPerks.

I encourage even the "I'm happy with WP" people to send in a similiar message. Don't degrade the frequent flyer program!

What's next? No unlimited elite upgrades for low fares or any fares? (just like Delta)

NW will almost certainly match this move, as it is my understanding that DL required the Elite qualification changes in exchange for DL implementing a CO/NW-style reciprocal upgrade scheme...

------------------
Has YOUR airline won an award lately?

I didn't know Delta had adopted the NW style upgrade scheme...As platinum on NW, does that mean that I am first in line at Delta to upgrade? And do I get unlimited "companion upgrades" like I do on NW?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by avek00:
NW will almost certainly match this move, as it is my understanding that DL required the Elite qualification changes in exchange for DL implementing a CO/NW-style reciprocal upgrade scheme...

</font>



[This message has been edited by Live4Miles (edited 09-16-2003).]

This is my biggest fear.

From the start I always consider a bad move for NW and CO to include DL (most unfriendly airlines towards FF). Bad influence from DL shows in CO's new policy towards elite status. It will be really, really bad if NW follows.

I have faxed my concern to NW Elite Line and would encourage others to do the same.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by thesilb:
CO announced today that effective 1/1/04 (7/1/04 for tickets purchased at CO.com) the lowest priced fare classes will only earn 50% mileage for elite qualification purposes.

Any word on whether NW is going along with this change?</font>

Just sent an email off to World Perks and will be sending a hard copy as well. Hopefully more people will do the same.

WHat's the email address to send stuff like this to Worldperks? Perhaps I'm just slow, but I haven't found a place at nwa.com to send an email to them.

From a very unhappy CO gold:

I hate to burst your bubbles, but there is no way that NW is not going to follow CO and DL. In order for the unfortunate alliance with DL to work, frequent flier benefits need to be aligned (otherwise everyone would just join WorldPerks).

Brooklynflyer

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by umguy:
Just sent an email off to World Perks and will be sending a hard copy as well. Hopefully more people will do the same.</font>


In order for people to swamp WorldPerks Customer Service Center in a short amount of time, anyone care to share a template for the letter?? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
WHat's the email address to send stuff like this to Worldperks? Perhaps I'm just slow, but I haven't found a place at nwa.com to send an email to them.</font>

hit the "contact us" button

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dick Ginkowski:
hit the "contact us" button
</font>

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif OK, so I'm a moron.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Live4Miles:
I didn't know Delta had adopted the NW style upgrade scheme...As platinum on NW, does that mean that I am first in line at Delta to upgrade? And do I get unlimited "companion upgrades" like I do on NW?



[This message has been edited by Live4Miles (edited 09-16-2003).]</font>

Not quite...it DOES mean that you can expect Delta to meet CO/NW 70% of the way as Vicki Escarra mentioned a few weeks back...


------------------
Has YOUR airline won an award lately?

I sent an email, but I do not think it will make a difference. I believe this change is an unfortunate "done deal."



[This message has been edited by mdb (edited 09-16-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MSY-MSP:
Looking at the three programs, NW has always been a different type of program for FF. For years, you could only qualify for elite though butt in seat miles. Now they have added a segment qualification, but that is only for B+ fares. I think the system that NW has is probably the most fair out there, with AA and UA having the next best. Now for a little analysis.

NW -- 25/50/75 mile qualification
Bonus miles for First/BIZ and Full Y
Segments qualify 20/40/60 on B+

UA -- 25/50/100 mile qualification
No bonus for First/BIZ full Y
Segments qualify 30/60/100

AA -- 25/50/100 mile qualify
EQM based on fare paid qualify seperately from butt in seat miles
Segments 30/60/--

DL -- 25/50/100 mile qualify with elite mileage awarded based on fare paid. some fares earn 50%
segment qualify 30/60/100

CO -- 25/50/75 mile qualify with lower fares earning 50% eqm.
Segement qualify 30/60/90 lower fare earning no segments, higher fares earning double segments.

The end result is that NW/AA reward their flyers for loyality no matter how it comes. The provide a benefit, i.e. faster/easier qualifying, to those who spend more money on their tickets, but still recognize that a person flying a lot on cheap tickets provides a lot of revenue to the airline. (i am not refering to mileage runs)

UA while not enhancing the higher fare flyers isn't upsetting the low fare flyers, by denying them priveledges for staying loyal to UA.

DL/CO -- Enchance the discount frequent lesiure traveler/or the cost conscious biz traveler, while praising the high fare traveler.

I have nothing against an airline wanting to give benefits to the higher paying traveler, but they shouldn't do this at the expense of frequent travelers that aren't able to buy the high $ tickets.

In the end, I don't think NW will end up going this route. They have always been good to their the FF's and will find other ways to enhance the priveledges of the high end flyers, without alienating the rest of the crowd.

Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. </font>


Not completely correct anymore:
DL has NO SEGMENT qualification anymore, only via MQM's ( medallion qualification miles ). This is the most unfair part, as some segment flyers paying huge fares for very short flights. On the other hand very high C and Y fares earn 200/150 % qualification miles so you would requalify even faster when flying on last minute fares.

I just emailed and faxed correspondence to NW Elite CS. I hope they don't make this move.

Interestingly, on CAL's website, they indicate on the premium fares that you only earn 1 segment on NW, while you earn two on DAL and CAL. This indicates to me that there might be a sliver of a chance that there will be some difference between the programs. CAL and NW have had differences for years, especially segment related, so let's hope some differences remain!

Maybe 12-18 months ago, I read something about Anderson saying that FF's are very important to NW, regardless of the fare paid. So I'm hoping his stance on that stays the same.

I have been sitting here in a mild funk ever since I read of CO's planned changes, especially since I already have travel ticketed through March of next year. I have been playing around with a letter to send out to Northwest urging them not to match. Don't imagine it will help too much if the decision has been made, but some feedback before I send it would be appreciated. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

09/16/2003

I am writing you in regards to changes that have been announced to Continentals Onepass program for 2004, most notably changes to the elite qualification criteria that now match Delta’s unpopular program. Because of your strong alliance with Continental and Delta, I fear that it may already be a forgone conclusion that you will be instituting the same changes for the next program year.

I am writing to strongly urge Northwest to stand by your current qualification criteria as well as other positive aspects of Worldperks, and not take steps to dilute and devalue your program. Last year based on Delta’s program changes I requested and received complimentary Worldperks status. 78,532 miles later, I am now Platinum, and have flown almost exclusively with Northwest. I want to assure you though that if you choose to adopt policies that I, and I believe many others will consider hostile to your most loyal customer base, I will vote with my wallet and fly with the carrier that provides the lowest fare and most direct routing rather than continue to be loyal to one airline.

Over the years, I have flown over 300,000 miles with Northwest, and sincerely hope to remain with my preferred carrier.


OutOfOffice

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by OutOfOffice:
I have been sitting here in a mild funk ever since I read of CO's planned changes, especially since I already have travel ticketed through March of next year. I have been playing around with a letter to send out to Northwest urging them not to match. Don't imagine it will help too much if the decision has been made, but some feedback before I send it would be appreciated. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

09/16/2003

I am writing you in regards to changes that have been announced to Continentals Onepass program for 2004, most notably changes to the elite qualification criteria that now match Delta’s unpopular program. Because of your strong alliance with Continental and Delta, I fear that it may already be a forgone conclusion that you will be instituting the same changes for the next program year.

I am writing to strongly urge Northwest to stand by your current qualification criteria as well as other positive aspects of Worldperks, and not take steps to dilute and devalue your program. Last year based on Delta’s program changes I requested and received complimentary Worldperks status. 78,532 miles later, I am now Platinum, and have flown almost exclusively with Northwest. I want to assure you though that if you choose to adopt policies that I, and I believe many others will consider hostile to your most loyal customer base, I will vote with my wallet and fly with the carrier that provides the lowest fare and most direct routing rather than continue to be loyal to one airline.

Over the years, I have flown over 300,000 miles with Northwest, and sincerely hope to remain with my preferred carrier.


OutOfOffice
</font>

I would also note that NW's elite qualification changes announced last year made much more sense. They reward "high rollers" without alienating the rest of the frequent flyers. In so doing NW did what DL and CO *should* have done. By leaving the WorldPerks program intact, NW will show both the wisdom of last year's decision but additional savvy because it will continue to distinguish WorldPerks from the rest of the pack.

Just sent email and fax. Will add snail mail when I feel like stepping outside. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

IMO, NW will stand fast, at least for the time being. And, IMO, CO can expect trouble from the gov't. Or at least they should! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

Here is the fax number to the World Perks service center. 1-612-726-2214

I would rather have CO or NW raise the Platinum qualifacation level to 100,000 (an extra mileage run to SIN) then undertake the changes that CO announced today.
I hope NW has the guts to stand alone.

I also note that CO will only award 1 segment qualification point toward CO elite status for flights at higher fares on NW, where they will award 2 points for flights at CO metal.
I hope NW takes this as a slap in the face and decides on a little retaliation, like comping CO plats to NW plats. I will be first in line.

Randy Peterson said the following:

===========================================

And I would doubt that this will spread to the rest of the majors. They have now had a year to react and thus far have not. The only motivator for this from CO was their pledge toward a seamless alliance. I will go out on a limb and say that while NW went along with the restrictive measures for the alliance, I do strongly beleive they will not adopt the exact same measure that OnePass has.

==========================================

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum21/HTML/011704.html

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by thesilb:
CO announced today that effective 1/1/04 (7/1/04 for tickets purchased at CO.com) the lowest priced fare classes will only earn 50% mileage for elite qualification purposes.

Any word on whether NW is going along with this change?</font>

I have also sent NW an e-mail. I did mention that since I made elite status I try to workout my schedule to fly NW instead of another airline. If they follow the lead of DL and CO, I will no longer have an incentive to switch around my schedule to fly NW.

I hope NW is smarter than DL and CO!!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Vulcan:
I would rather have CO or NW raise the Platinum qualifacation level to 100,000 (an extra mileage run to SIN) then undertake the changes that CO announced today.
I hope NW has the guts to stand alone.
</font>

I agree here. I have flown fly 75,000 miles each for the past 4 years exclusively on K and V class fares. If these changes are implemented, the best I can hope for is Silver Status for 2005.

There is no way I can afford to fly 150,000 miles to obtain 75,000 EQM for Platinum status. I am more likely to fly 100,000 miles to re-qualify for Platinum than 150,000 miles.

I hope Northwest will continue to recognize my loyalty toward the airline, and hope they make no chagne to this program.

Most of my travel is leisure on low fares. I wouldn't dream of doubling up to maintain gold elite under this type of system and I'm not sure if I could rationalize attempting to maintain silver, either. The net result would be shifting some travel to other carriers.

Doesn't Northwest and Continental need every vote from SkyzTeam member airline to join the alliance? If this is the case, Continental and Northwest might have no choice but to follow Delta's lead, right?!

[This message has been edited by jiburi (edited 09-16-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by umguy:
Here is the fax number to the World Perks service center. 1-612-726-2214 </font>

Thanks, I'll be sending email, fax, and snailmail over the next week (snailmail on company letterhead for additional impact).

I think it's good that we are voicing our opinions now -- before any announcement is made (even if a decision has already been made in either direction). If NWA gets bombared with a large amount of correspondence now, it'll be clear to them that it'll be a huge mistake to follow DL's, and now CO's lead.

I dumped DL because of their customer disloyalty program and NWA has gained significant $$$'s based on my travel, my influence in company travel policy, and even me encouraging my family & friends to use NWA.

That's a good chunk of change for one person. Multiply that by everyone on here, many in similar positions (some who spend more, some who spend less), and that is a lot of revenue for NWA.

There is power is #'s and $$$'s.

Best,

SDF_Traveler

------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

I just got a reply to my email. It is as follows:

Thank you for contacting WorldPerks.

Feedback from our membership is important to us, as it helps us to
identify areas of concerns. To that end, your correspondence has been
forwarded to the WorldPerks Marketing department for review.

While our Marketing representatives are not able to reply to each
customer personally, I can assure you that your comments will receive
their close attention.

Sincerely,

Lola Lindberg
Correspondence Specialist
WorldPerks Customer Service Center

Sounds like Lola's been taken over... by THEM.

Officially, NW will not comp status for CO Elites...so if NW stands alone on the changes and we all want to jump ship (certainly to NW's benefit, but will anger DL/CO), how do we convince NW to slap CO/NW in the face and comp all the Elites who want to come over?

Perhaps develop a challenge system like AA? I would think we need to offer some incentive to be comped, especially those who are Platinum.

I will sit in NW's FC cabin anyday over DL or CO's coach...I dont need leather and IFE that much!

I am not surprised by Continental's move. They seem to enjoy raising ire among their OnePass members. When the alliance was first whispered, I emailed the WPs urging them not to let Delta influence them. Regrettbly DL has obviously influenced CO. Because of the alliance, CO has been my second choice, but now, I shall look elsewhere. I think it is repugnant that the announcement was made during the middle of the qualification period as I have purchased some personal travel well into next year on CO. I do hope I receive the mileage I expected, then I can drop CO. I will even go out of my way to use an airline OTHER than CO when NW is unavailable.

I sure am glad I sucked up AirTran stock when it was as low as $2.80/share.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by umguy:
I just got a reply to my email. It is as follows:

Thank you for contacting WorldPerks.

Feedback from our membership is important to us, as it helps us to
identify areas of concerns. To that end, your correspondence has been
forwarded to the WorldPerks Marketing department for review.

While our Marketing representatives are not able to reply to each
customer personally, I can assure you that your comments will receive
their close attention.

Sincerely,

Lola Lindberg
Correspondence Specialist
WorldPerks Customer Service Center</font>

It appears the service center is ready for our emails:

Dear Mr OutOfOffice,

Thank you for contacting WorldPerks.

We appreciate your taking the time to write a letter alerting us to your concerns. Feedback from our WorldPerks membership is important to us,
as it helps us to identify areas of concerns. To that end, our
WorldPerks program is constantly under review. Your correspondence has
been forwarded to the WorldPerks Marketing department for review.

While our Marketing representatives are not able to reply to each
customer personally, we can assure you that your comments will receive
their close attention in future planning.

Mr OutOfOffice, we appreciate the support you have shown for our airline in
the past and we are committed to earning and maintaining your loyalty.
Please be assured that as a member of our WorldPerks Platinum Elite
program, you are one of Northwest's most important customers. We hope
that Northwest Airlines and our alliance partners will have the
continued privilege of serving your air travel needs.

Sincerely,

Cheryl A Johnson
Correspondence Specialist
WorldPerks Customer Service Center

If they do plan to go the way of CO, hope that they announce it sooner than later....at least CO has given us CO Plats plenty of time to start looking for another FF program!

I hope someone from NW is reading these "hallowed posts",

I fly from a hub where NW competes with Airtran and Sun Country and definitely cheaper fares. My loyalty is to the FF program unless I am forced to change my wallet,

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bocastephen:
Officially, NW will not comp status for CO Elites...so if NW stands alone on the changes and we all want to jump ship (certainly to NW's benefit, but will anger DL/CO), how do we convince NW to slap CO/NW in the face and comp all the Elites who want to come over?

Perhaps develop a challenge system like AA? I would think we need to offer some incentive to be comped, especially those who are Platinum.

I will sit in NW's FC cabin anyday over DL or CO's coach...I dont need leather and IFE that much!</font>

just do what I plan on doing come Jan 1, enter op # when booking so you get the elite upgrade then use either web check-in or kiosk and switch to your wp # for credit

So, my question is, when WP members fly CO metal on deeply discounted fares (L,S, etc), do they only get 50% WP EQM after June 1, 2004?

I would not book any DL/CO flight now.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BOS-NWA:


So, my question is, when WP members fly CO metal on deeply discounted fares (L,S, etc), do they only get 50% WP EQM after June 1, 2004?

I would not book any DL/CO flight now.</font>

To know the answer, we'll just have to wait for the official announcement from NW.
Hopefully soon....

UA's already poaching WorldPerks members! (http://www.united.com/promoreg?title=Only+the+poor+(or+misinformed)+fly+ Northwest+Airlines.+Fly+United+today,+earn+1,000+b onus+miles+and+find+out+why.&pcode=NWASUCKS)

- - -

FWIW, I'm not ready to believe NW will automatically match CO/DL ...

[This message has been edited by IndustrialPatent (edited 09-17-2003).]

Is that UA link for real?? I can't believe that they would 'word it' like that.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Renard:
Is that UA link for real?? I can't believe that they would 'word it' like that.</font>

I think so http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif (http://www.united.com/promoreg?title=Yes,%20Renard,+it's+legit.+Drop+the +zero+and+get+with+the+hero+-+try+UA+and+we'll+comp+you+to+UGS!&pcode=RENARDROCKS).

I found even better promotion at UA web site. See for yourself!

link (http://www.united.com/promoreg?title=Jano+gets+10000000000+UA%20miles.+&pcode=JanoWelcome)

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Gee, those IT folks at UA, are they sleeping or what?

IP,

this is fun!

How did you find out about this?

[This message has been edited by Jano (edited 09-17-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Jano (edited 09-17-2003).]

It will be a super business deal for NW not to match CO/DL.

SM or OP members will not only fly more on NW metal, but also switch their accounts to WP. The reason is simple, they would get 50% more EQMs on WP accounts than their SM/OP accounts.

This is the dream situation for NW. I don't see any convincing reason why NW would mimic CO/DL, unless a secret deal was reached when NW/CO signed alliance with DL????

That would really suck for the consumers:-)


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by IndustrialPatent:
UA's already poaching WorldPerks members! (http://www.united.com/promoreg?title=Only+the+poor+(or+misinformed)+fly+ Northwest+Airlines.+Fly+United+today,+earn+1,000+b onus+miles+and+find+out+why.&pcode=NWASUCKS)

- - -

FWIW, I'm not ready to believe NW will automatically match CO/DL ...

[This message has been edited by IndustrialPatent (edited 09-17-2003).]</font>

I just sent my e-mail to NWA. I do not know if it will do any good. I do know that it will not hurt. Hopefully they will listen to all of us that take the time to write to them with our concerns. My hard copy letter will go out tonight.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dick Ginkowski:
I hope you are right. One advantage here is that NW could, if it sticks to its guns, also lure the disgruntled CO pax to NW.</font>

NYC based continental onepass platinum here looking to switch carriers.

as much as i love northwest, the inability to get a non-stop flight to almost anywhere (except minneapolis, detroit, or memphis) makes my use of NW almost insignificant. but, when i do fly NW i have always enjoyed the experience.

Just sent my email off too, as follows:

****************

I am writing to urge Northwest WorldPerks not to duplicate the severe benefit reductions announced September 16 by Continental OnePass. These changes penalize customers who fly a mix of full and discount-fare trips. Intended to thin the ranks of OnePass elites, they in fact diminish the Continental value proposition for most elites. Similar changes earlier in 2003 have driven numerous angry elites away from Delta Air Lines, but Continental is aligning OnePass with Skymiles anyway in apparently collusive action.

I have held elite status in OnePass since 1998 and this year am also Silver Elite on Northwest. I will stop booking Continental altogether from this date. If you maintain WorldPerks as it is I will migrate all possible business to Northwest (approx. 75,000 miles per year on average). If you align your program with OnePass and Skymiles, however, I will either seek comp status with American -- or opt for Southwest, JetBlue, etc. in future.

Airlines must realize that it is poor business to attack their own customers. I believe Northwest has distinguished itself in the difficult post-9/11 era as the most pro-customer of the US airlines. I expect you face pressure from your alliance partners DL and CO to revamp WorldPerks along their lines. If you do you will not only lose your pro-customer profile... you will be proving that SkyTeam/Wings-type-alliances are inherently collusive and anti-competitive (if it weren't for Delta, this wouldn't be happening)... and you will be losing significant future business-travel revenue. At least from me.

I hope you will stand up for your customers in the face of pressure from those other airlines and refuse to degrade the WorldPerks proposition. Thank you very much for your pro-customer efforts in this challenging era for commercial aviation, and I look forward to booking and flying NW even more often in the future.

Yours

(BearX220)

WP Silver Elite, member since 1992

******************

Maybe the fix is already in, but at least I'm on the record.

Hate to say it, but I'm convinced we're hosed. No way is CO gonna let NW elites (which can achieve Platinum on 75,000 miles of cheap tickets) compete with CO Plats (which would need 150,000 "cheap" miles). Either than or we're going to see a significant break in the reciprocal benefits... which would leave some of us (like me) out in the cold since flying NW metal only won't get the job done.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Steve

I thought that I was finished with this kind of thing when I ditched Delta in January.

I do not want to, but I will do the same again.

It looks like it is either United or American.

This sucks. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MSY-MSP:
Now for a little analysis.

UA -- 25/50/100 mile qualification
No bonus for First/BIZ full Y
Segments qualify 30/60/100</font>

Just an FYI, United offers 150% mileage for paid First (F/A) and 125% for paid Business (C/D and I think Z).

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,1360,3122,00.html

DOn't forget to thank Delta for starting this as I just did in this email:

Thanks for screwing up the Continental OnePass program with agreements that must have been signed to reduce benefits to your pathetic SkyMiles level. I hope your infection does not become full-blown in the NW WorldPerks program. A former flyer!

I have received an email from UA which asked me to send my most recent Northwest WP account statement to Mileage Plus either by mail or fax, so an elite status comp can be considered.

I will send another fax to NW Gold Elite Line to tell them:


"Would you please let me know as soon as possible if you are going mimic DL/CO so that I could book my December flight to Asia on UA?"


My fear is that NW/CO/DL alliance was nothing but a signed conspiracy against consumers. I sincerely hope that NW will think really, really hard before making a change on EQM.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NW.BTR.Than.The.Rest:
DOn't forget to thank Delta for starting this as I just did in this email:

Thanks for screwing up the Continental OnePass program with agreements that must have been signed to reduce benefits to your pathetic SkyMiles level. I hope your infection does not become full-blown in the NW WorldPerks program. A former flyer!</font>

This thing was set months ago (but not in writing!)...IMHO NW is just holding off its announcement for a few weeks to not give the DOJ too much red-meat. There is no way DL/CO will let everyone drift over to WP.

Uncle Leo won the tug-of-war...

Here's the email I received today from World Perks regarding my online complaint/concern note about possible changes to qualifying. I'm not sure if they missed the point entirely, or are saying that the program is safe (for now). I'm taking the optimistic view!

Dear bergamini,

Thank you for your E-mail.

Please be advised that WorldPerks members flying on Continental will earn Elite qualifying credit consistent with the WorldPerks program rules.

For questions regarding the rules of the WorldPerks program and their partners, please refer to your membership guide or nwa.com.

Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with us. We will continue to make every effort to serve our customers well. Thank you for your business as a WorldPerks member. The people of Northwest appreciate your patronage.

We appreciate the opportunity to review this matter with you.

Sincerely,

Colleen Stewart
Executive Staff Assistant
WorldPerks Customer Service Center

Here's my email and (non)response from NWA:
Dear ,

Thank you for your E-mail.

Please be advised that WorldPerks members flying on Continental will
earn Elite qualifying credit consistent with the WorldPerks program
rules.

For questions regarding the rules of the WorldPerks program and their
partners, please refer to your membership guide or nwa.com.

Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with us. We will
continue to make every effort to serve our customers well. Thank you
for your business as a WorldPerks member. The people of Northwest
appreciate your patronage.

We appreciate the opportunity to review this matter with you.

Sincerely,

Colleen Stewart
Executive Staff Assistant
WorldPerks Customer Service Center


Original Message Follows:
-------------------------

The Northwest Support Talk to Us form has been submitted with:

Subject type selection: WorldPerks Elite






Now that Continental has joined Delta in reducing Elite
Qualifying Miles for less expensive fares, I assume that
NWA may do the same. Indeed, NWA may already have
made the decision to do so at the time of forming the
codesharing agreement with Delta. As a 20-year
WorldPerks member, currently Platinum. and a lifetime
Worldclubs member, I would ask you to consider the
enormous gamble that you would be taking should you do
so. Many very frequent flyers such as I would respond by
using up our frequent flyer miles, and simply selecting the
cheapest airline from that moment forward. It is not clear
you would ever regain the trust of your loyal customers, even
if you later reversed your decision.
Please give this very careful thought before abusing the trust
of your many longstanding customers.

I just phone Continental to register a complaint about the change at their 800WECARE2 phone line. The agent informed me that Northwest was making the change as well because "Delta required it for the codeshare." Looks like it is definite. FYI, the CO agent also said that she had heard very few complaints regarding the change. Perhaps that could change with the 800 line listed above. It's outrageous.

The CO CSR I talked to said it was a "financial" thing and that he has heard nothing but complaints.

Just got off the phone with Elite Special Service line at NW. They just received a memo which basically states the same thing I got in my email. It also said something to the effect that the WP qualification guidelines are staying the same. For how long, it didn't say, but I honestly think that it's good news. Maybe a pre-emptive strike worked!

[This message has been edited by bergamini (edited 09-17-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SEA_Tigger:
Just an FYI, United offers 150% mileage for paid First (F/A) and 125% for paid Business (C/D and I think Z).

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,1360,3122,00.html

</font>

I guess I could have been clearer about the bonus miles I was refering to. Yes you get bonus miles on UA for paid F (A)/C (D, J, Z), but those miles don't count toward status, you just get base miles that count for status. I was refering to miles that count for status, not towards your account total.

Personally, I feel that the best solution here, if Northwest were to mimic Delta/CO, would be to grandfather all exisiting elite members under the old EQM rules until they're no longer elites.... I think this would help Northwest to keep their best customers...

But, like everyone else on this board... I've sent my letter out and if Northwest follows suit, I'm gone. UA/AA here I come http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

just booked a reward flight (using op miles for a nwa flight) and had two interesting conversations

1) co agent (since I needed a nwa ns flight) "if you have Larry Kellner's email please use it, he needs to hear from more elites about just how bad this is"

2) nwa agent to get seat assignment when asked if she heard anything about nwa matching "no I haven't heard a thing, why would they (co) do such a thing to their best customers?"

Here's my letter:

Mr. Douglas M. Steenland
President
Northwest Airlines
2700 Lone Oak Parkway
Eagan, Minnesota 55121


Dear Mr. Steenland: Re: Elite Qualifying Miles

I am writing as an NWA passenger of long standing, a WorldPerks member since the inception of the program, currently Platinum, and a lifetime WorldClubs member.

I know that it is tempting to follow Continental's lead in reducing credit towards elite qualification on cheaper fares. Indeed, the decision to do so may already have been made at the time of the Delta codesharing agreement. If you do that, however, the advantages of loyalty to NWA would disappear for me. I would simply use up my current WorldPerks balance, and then seek out the cheapest carrier for future flights.

Without a doubt, the present economic environment is challenging, but for the good of NWA’s long-term future I urge you to resist the temptation to follow the lead of a twice-bankrupt airline.


Sincerely,

"if you have Larry Kellner's email please use it, he needs to hear from more elites about just how bad this is"

Larry's email address is lkelln@coair.com

He is the ONLY one at CO that cares about the elite members. Even though he is President, he answers his own email and calls people personally. He is the lone good guy in this ugly situation.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Dear slippahs,

Thank you for contacting Northwest Airlines.

We really appreciate the feedback that you have provided in your recent
email. Thank you for taking the time to express your views and thoughts
on our elite program.

Feedback from our membership is important to us, as it helps us to
identify areas of concerns. To that end, your correspondence has been
forwarded to the WorldPerks Marketing department for review.

While our Marketing representatives are not able to reply to each
customer personally, I can assure you that your comments will receive
their close attention.

Sincerely,
xxxxx
Correspondence Specialist
WorldPerks Customer Service Center</font>

Well at least it wasn't the same e-mail everyone else got... Didn't know WPs had Correspondence Specialists in their CSR department.

This change would NOT be a good idea NWA! Personally, if this happens, I would always go with the lowest fare out of MSP which probably means more time for me on Air Tran, ATA, Frontier, etc than on NWA since there would be no value for me to be so loyal to NWA as I am.
Also, should this change take place, they would have to change nwa.com so you could select flights by fare basis (so you could compare then decide if you wanted to pay more for a qualifying ticket) in addition to price and schedules.


------------------

DELTA is only ATLs carrier!

Hey, let's look at this logic and present it to NW/CO. Delta is NOTHING outside of ATL, and we all know ATL is the largest second rate city in the world. What did DL add to this alliance? I see the NW/CO, the NW/KL, the CO/AF, but F*** DL. Let DL fly out of ATL, but get them the hell out of decent FF programs. I cannot believe that the lowest common denominator dictated what one excellent, and one potentially excellent airline would do to their FF programs.

PLEASE FLOOD DELTA with THANK-YOU notes!

My email to Beth Shultis:

This may not be a timely email as decisions may have already been made, but I just want to add a voice hoping that NWA will not follow the recent decisions by Continental to mimic the cutbacks in elite qualifying options that Delta uses.

I am a borderline silver elite member. Although I live in Houston (a CO hub) I have diverted more and more of my flying to NW. I have been so pleased with the customer-friendly policies of NW. In the past, I simply shopped every flight by price, and accumulated miles in all airline programs, but NW's promotions and customer service made it possible for me to pool a great deal of my travel on NW and what a joy it was to finally hit silver elite!

I have also flown Delta quite a bit in the past, but their decision to furnish only 50% qualification miles for certain fares simply convinced me to divert my business elsewhere. (Even though I do not always buy in the lowest fare categories, nevertheless I have no interest in giving my lowfare business to an airline that only recognizes it with 50% credit. Delta will wind up losing out on much of my business as a result, not simply the lowest fares. Continental is now placing themselves in the same place.)

I do not know if you follow the Internet buzz about the various airlines (on places such as FlyerTalk) but the "buzz" about NWA is incredibly positive. I'm sure there are factors you are dealing with that I simply do not understand.

Nevertheless it seems that DL and CO are incredibly shortsighted in their moves. The very idea that there is a huge flock of high rollers who would gladly pay inflated fares for royal treatment is ridiculous. The overwhelming majority of us are very price-sensitive and will remain so. The attempts by CO and DL are so blatant and dismissive of this group of flyers that I will not be surprised to see considerable redirection of business.

There is potential for NW to come out of this smelling like a rose! I hope you'll hang on to that opportunity!!

If NW decides to adopt the same unfriendly measures as CO and DL, I will likely do one of the following:

1 - Return to my former strategy of choosing each flight simply on the basis of price and scheduling, accumulate miles in all carriers, and forsake any effort to maintain elite status.

2 - Consider redirecting the bulk of my travel to either AA or UA, carriers in which "high dollar" customers have opportunities to be rewarded without adopting punitive measures in the qualification process for discount fare travelers.

Naturally my preference will be to become an even more loyal NW traveler, and maybe even hit gold in the future!

In any case, I truly appreciate that it is a difficult time for all airlines. Finding creative ways to market, value existing customers, and attract new customers, while paring costs must surely be a difficult task. Thanks for giving my input your fair consideration.

Shouldn't we also be flooding the DOJ with complaints about this obvious collusion?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Carolinian:
Shouldn't we also be flooding the DOJ with complaints about this obvious collusion?</font>

- NW hasn't announced anything.

- CO merely matched DL's 50% EQM... obviously an attempt to synchronize their program with DL (it's rumored DL will soon offer free space-available upgrades). While they're expecting NW to match, there's no guarantee NW will. Remember, NW doesn't have the vast number of elites that DL (and maybe CO?) does (EUA upgrades on DTW-ATL are usually a given -- DL has ~50 elites on almost every flight).

- I'm surprised CO didn't do this earlier - I'm expecting them to forbid free upgrades on cheap tickets soon...

- Wait and see... if DL/CO/NW synchronize their programs to 50% EQM, you can bet US (which tried to give 0% last year) will likely as well... which could rub off onto UA, and then AA.

The future of frequent flyer programs?

If you only purchase F, C, and J, who cares about the 2 or 3 free domestic coach trips you MAY be able to make annually. These folks don't care. If this is the future of FF programs, determine the cost per ticket, factor it in, and abolish the program all together. I HATE DELTA! WE SHOULD ALL FLOOD DELTA EMAILS WITH OUR THANKS!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NW.BTR.Than.The.Rest:
If you only purchase F, C, and J, who cares about the 2 or 3 free domestic coach trips you MAY be able to make annually. These folks don't care. If this is the future of FF programs, determine the cost per ticket, factor it in, and abolish the program all together. I HATE DELTA! WE SHOULD ALL FLOOD DELTA EMAILS WITH OUR THANKS!</font>

Dude, relax. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Don't give yourself a heart attack here. NW hasn't even announced anything.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
Dude, relax. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Don't give yourself a heart attack here. NW hasn't even announced anything.</font>

Thanks SRQ, I took a valium, and I am ok now.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NW.BTR.Than.The.Rest:
Thanks SRQ, I took a valium, and I am ok now.</font>


http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
Dude, relax. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Don't give yourself a heart attack here. NW hasn't even announced anything.</font>


Yet. Remember, they have not denied it, either.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dick Ginkowski:

Yet. Remember, they have not denied it, either.</font>

Yeah, I think I recall you mentioning that. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Until they announce that they will match, however, it's certainly not worth going into hysterics. IMHO it's not even worth that if they DO match.

Everyone who is not deluding him/herself knows that an erosion of total elite benefits (erosion of actual benefits or lowering the number of people eligible for them) is completely inevitable in the airline climate today. If it doesn't happen this year, it'll be next year, or the year after. Enjoy it while you can. The airlines absolutely need a way to distinguish high-revenue passengers to give elite perks to, and low-fare flyers who provide little if any profit to the airline. Crandall (at least I think it was Crandall) created a real monster with FF programs, and those in charge today are dealing with that monster.

Trust me, I dislike the thought of travelling in coach as much as the next guy, but my elite qualification on multiple $168.50 transcons zig-zagging across the country in F provides little or no financial benefit to NW.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
Yeah, I think I recall you mentioning that. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Until they announce that they will match, however, it's certainly not worth going into hysterics. IMHO it's not even worth that if they DO match.

Everyone who is not deluding him/herself knows that an erosion of total elite benefits (erosion of actual benefits or lowering the number of people eligible for them) is completely inevitable in the airline climate today. If it doesn't happen this year, it'll be next year, or the year after. Enjoy it while you can. The airlines absolutely need a way to distinguish high-revenue passengers to give elite perks to, and low-fare flyers who provide little if any profit to the airline. Crandall (at least I think it was Crandall) created a real monster with FF programs, and those in charge today are dealing with that monster.

Trust me, I dislike the thought of travelling in coach as much as the next guy, but my elite qualification on multiple $168.50 transcons zig-zagging across the country in F provides little or no financial benefit to NW.</font>

NW probably came up with the most reasoned approach by accelerating and enhancing elite benefits for high rollers without alienating the rest of elites. Remember, when you get your last minute upgrade, you are getting an unsold seat and the airline is getting the chance to resell the seat you occupied for a higher fare -- in fact, the most profitable fare -- to the last minute flyer. With as many packed planes as we have in the skies today, elite bennies are at worst revenue neutral and at best profitable.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dick Ginkowski:
...With as many packed planes as we have in the skies today, elite bennies are at worst revenue neutral and at best profitable.
</font>

If that were unequivocably true, they wouldn't be eroding elite benefits. Whil eit may seem like airline managers gleefully rescind benefits merely for enjoyment, truthfully there is much more at stake. They have a duty to stockholders to increase profit. I'd wager that an airline's accounting department has a better idea of the profitability of the elite program than any of us armchair airline execs do.

That said, I realize that NW modified it's program last year in a positive way, and I hope they don't screw it up by following CO's lead.

SRQ Guy: Not an armchair exec -- I have family in the industry on the finance side.

BTW-Airline finances make a schizophrenic with a multiple personality disorder seem simple and logical. The problem (among others) with airline management (and many large companies in other sectors as well) is the inability to think outside the box. Further, they seem to want to perpetuate and excuse bad decisionmaking. The ones making money today are those who are thinking outside the box and daring to be a little different.

Having said that, NW *could* profit from the mistakes of others if it does not perpetuate them. One thing they really did right (hindsight being 20-20) is the enhancement and refurbs of the DC-9 fleet a few years ago. Not only did that reduce capital outlay for equipment (particularly when finances are tight) but those workhorses have some special cost enhancement benefits operationally.

BTW--look for more Beaver Jets, though. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Someone may have already noted this, but CO seems to be hedging their bets a bit by delaying implementation for a full year with online bookings --
"You can continue to earn 100% Elite mileage and full segments/points for Q, S, T and L Economy Class fares (or equivalent fare classes) for travel on Continental Airlines, Continental Express and Continental Connection flights by booking your tickets at continental.com for flights between January 1 and December 31, 2004."
http://www.continental.com/onepass/news/continental/co_20030910_03. asp?SID=DC26DDD28FEA426A8534BFAB0CDFD663 (http://www.continental.com/onepass/news/continental/co_20030910_03.asp?SID=DC26DDD28FEA426A8534BFAB0CD FD663)
the silb's posting that started this thread indicated that the online option would only work for six months.

tom

[This message has been edited by mot29 (edited 09-18-2003).]

Ok, I have good news and I have bad news. I was just at a cocktail party/open house for an ad/marketing agency here in Minneapolis. There office is two floors above mine, and they invited the entire building. (on a side note the ad agency handles some of Starwoods marketing and loyalty products) When I got to the reception area, there is a name tag for Beth Shultis. So being the good flyertalker that I am, i looked further, and it said she was from NW, so I know we have the Beth.

A little while later, I am walking past the reception area, and see that her name tag is gone. So I track her down. This took some effort, but i found her talking to one of the hosts that I thankfully knew. After introductions and small talk, I ask her about the continental move on OnePass and what NW's position was on it. She hemmed and hawed for a minute. (it was obvious a canned response wasn't going to work here) Basically, her line was that this caught her and the rest of WP staff off gaurd, but that Delta had suggested it as a way to "harmonize" the relationship. She said that NW had considered it, but for the time being wasn't going to implement anything like that. However, she did say that they might go to a similar style program. The primary reason would be to allow EUA on DL, but NW wanted to study this further. The other thing she mentioned is that NW would prefer an arangement similar to AS for DL as opposed to the EUA, because of the large number of high status DL flyers NW is seeing on their flights since the arrangement took effect.

She also said that for the time being that she anticipated that NW would respond only as CO acts. In other words, if CO awards NW flyers half credit on QLT fares, then NW would award CO flyers the 50% on comparable fares. However, because each airline awards status miles differently she said as long as the base miles stayed the same NW would not diminish the status miles awarded. Also it seemed NW wanted to gauge the reaction of the CO flyers before doing anything.

At this point the marketing guy I knew pipped in and said that sounded like a poor move to potentially alienate your most loyal customers. Beth seemed to agree, but not fully and made some statement about the changing enviornment, and the need to increase revenues and reduce costs.

So what i got out of this meeting. NW is not currently planning to implement this style qualifying structure, but may in the future. (define future) The other thing that may be coming out of this is an EUA on DL for CO flyers, but not for NW flyers.

So can we breathe easy. I don't know, but at least I found an unprepared response. I will keep you informed, I am going back to see if I can get more info discretely, and prompt others to hit her with similar questions.

MSY-MSP, thanks.

MSP-MSY: Many thanks!

Two days ago, I sent an email to NW about OP program change. I waited and waited. Just now, here is the response from NW: (Wonder why it took them so long to reply)

======================================
Dear Dr.XXX,

Thank you for contacting WorldPerks.

In response to Continental's announcement regarding earning Elite
Qualifying Miles on discounted fares, please be advised that WorldPerks
members flying on Continental will earn Elite qualifying credit
consistent with WorldPerks program rules.

Please monitor our website at www.nwa.com (http://www.nwa.com) for any further updates.

Thank you for choosing Northwest Airlines.

Sincerely,

Roy Sanders
Correspondence Specialist
WorldPerks Customer Service Center
=====================================

So, WP members will earn 100% EQM on CO flights, regardless of fares paid?

Following is the response I got from Worldperks to the email I sent them regarding the OnePass changes:

Dear SRQ Guy,

Thank you for contacting WorldPerks.

At the present time, I am unaware of any changes in the Elite program
for WorldPerks.

Since Northwest Airlines does not determine any changes in Continental
Airlines One Pass program, if you have concerns or would like to express
your views concerning the One Pass changes, please feel free to contact
One Pass directly to express your concerns.

Thank you for choosing Northwest Airlines.

Sincerely,

Roy Sanders
Correspondence Specialist
WorldPerks Customer Service Center

Everyone has made extremely good points. I just wanted to add my two cents and vent.

I am a NW Silver Elite member. I have a weekly commute from DCA/ATL.

My company forces me to choose the lowest fare route. Due to my status and Delta horrid FF program that I refuse to be a part of, I take connecting flights on Northwest whenever possible, rather than a direct 1 hr 20 min flight on Delta.

If I take 2 flights a week, 100-105 flights a year, and I am routing as much revenue to NW, which is less convenient than DL, why in the world would I take NW if the perks would be the same. On top of that, if I have no chance of attaining elite status unless I make it to 100 flights, why in the world would I simply not choose a low fare carrier such as AirTran, where I can at least get a free RT ticket every 4 or 5 flights?

If these airlines are trying to force last minute travelers to choose them, diluting the very loyalty program that usually entice us seems counterproductive to me. How many people would really choose fare 5x as much a a low fare carrier, simply to get an "free" upgrade. It seems to me that anyone with the ability to make that decision is just as likely to purchase a first class ticket anyway. What is the net gain?

Maybe our perspective is skewed as FlyerTalkers, but I can't believe that my logic is that outlandish. Delta must have shown some CO some numbers that I am just missing. If they are trying to get Delta to match the EAU, what good does it do if people migrate to another airline.

If NW matches the changes, I am off to UA, AA, AirTran, even JetBlue is I travel to one of their cities (DirectTV, leather is coach, and 34" pitch can't be all that bad). They are cheaper and more convenient anyway. I just happened to be 80% towards Silver Elite before I began this commute.

In the end the market place will speak. Unless everyone falls into line, the one airling that bucks the trend will receive the lion's share off the market. Unless there is MASSIVE collusion going on, this has to be a trend that can not continue.

(I hope....)


Sorry for the rambling...I just had to vent. Thanks...

BeenAroundTheWorld

[This message has been edited by BeenAroundTheWorld (edited 09-18-2003).]

How soon folks forget:

In the January 2002 issue of Continental’s in-flight magazine and on its Website, Continental chief executive Gordon Bethune makes a simple, unequivocal statement: “We will not cut benefits from OnePass,” Bethune said.

They haven't cut benefits. They just made it harder to get the benefits. Well except for the new fee on K upgrades. But otherwise the benefits are still intact. At least CO didn't make the move that DL did: the simultaneous incresing difficulty of obtaining benefits and gutting of said benefits.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dick Ginkowski:
How soon folks forget:

In the January 2002 issue of Continental’s in-flight magazine and on its Website, Continental chief executive Gordon Bethune makes a simple, unequivocal statement: “We will not cut benefits from OnePass,” Bethune said. </font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
They haven't cut benefits. They just made it harder to get the benefits. Well except for the new fee on K upgrades. But otherwise the benefits are still intact.

</font>

Ahhhhhhhhh. Well, I guess we need to elaborate and who better to do that than Chairman Gordo himself:

Dear Mr. ******
OnePass Elite members like you have been telling me we made a big mistake. We never should have changed the industry’s best Elite frequent-flyer program. I understand your concern.. .and as Continental’s new CEO, I’m doing something about it....now!

Effective March 1, we’re restoring the Elite benefits you’ve been missing most:
• More Upgrades... with priority for our most frequent flyers
• More Upgrade opportunities with First Class Sections added to many of Continental’s all-Coach aircraft

You’ll also enjoy other benefits that will make OnePass Elite the most rewarding program in the industry:
• Elite Mileage Bonuses higher than any other Elite program
• Elite Threshold Bonuses for more earnings
• New travel areas for Gold Elite capacity-free rewards
• New Elite Segment Qualification that helps you stay Elite

Read more about these and other new Elite benefits in the accompanying pamphlet.

Let me assure you personally, I-know how important you and other OnePass-Elite members are to Continental. I was a OnePass Gold Elite member long before I joined the company. Like you, I earned my Elite status by putting in long, demanding travel days where I learned to prize convenience and extra comfort. That’s why we are finishing a detailed plan -- I call it our “Go Forward Plan” -- that will encompass many efforts to bring you the quality service you expect. I’ll be here to make sure we deliver.

Just to let you know how serious we are, I’ve enclosed a certificate for a free upgrade. You've earned it with your patience over the last year. Think of it as a token of things to come


See you on board.

Sincerely,

Gordon Bethune

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dick Ginkowski:
Effective March 1, we’re restoring the Elite benefits you’ve been missing most:
• More Upgrades... with priority for our most frequent flyers
• More Upgrade opportunities with First Class Sections added to many of Continental’s all-Coach aircraft

You’ll also enjoy other benefits that will make OnePass Elite the most rewarding program in the industry:
• Elite Mileage Bonuses higher than any other Elite program
• Elite Threshold Bonuses for more earnings
• New travel areas for Gold Elite capacity-free rewards
• New Elite Segment Qualification that helps you stay Elite </font>

Aside from qualification by segments, which of these benefits has been cut?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MSY-MSP:
The other thing she mentioned is that NW would prefer an arangement similar to AS for DL as opposed to the EUA, because of the large number of high status DL flyers NW is seeing on their flights since the arrangement took effect.</font>

hopefully this is serving as a hint as to what people think of downgrades in the FF program! :-)


[This message has been edited by Seat1A (edited 09-19-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
Aside from qualification by segments, which of these benefits has been cut?</font>

That is a disingenuous question. Point is that benefits were cut contrary to Gordo's promise, period.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dick Ginkowski:
That is a disingenuous question. Point is that benefits were cut contrary to Gordo's promise, period.</font>

No they weren't. Qualification was made more difficult. The benefits are the same once you get there. Arguably once you maki elite it'll be even better, as there should be fewer elites. You're just mad because you might not make elite. And unfortunately, CO doesn't WANT low-fare flyers to be elite.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
No they weren't. Qualification was made more difficult. The benefits are the same once you get there. Arguably once you maki elite it'll be even better, as there should be fewer elites. You're just mad because you might not make elite. And unfortunately, CO doesn't WANT low-fare flyers to be elite.</font>


SRQ Guy, you are absolutely incorrect.

Since you don't know me, you don't know why I am (or am not) "mad."

In this case, you answered your own question previously (elimination of segment qualification) which in and of itself is dispositive without having to address any other changes.

BTW-Did you help Bill Clinton define "sex?" I ask because if you make the "benefit" more difficult to obtain and remove people who previously qualified from getting it, then you have in fact changed the program and the benefit.

SRQ Guy incorrectly assumed the reason I am "mad."

I don't always agree with Joe Brancatelli -- and even in this except below I disagree with some of his analysis (airlines make money in MANY ways, for one, and elite benefits are revenue neutral at worst and provide the potential for profit) but this excerpt from Joe below pretty much sums up why I and many others ARE mad:

In theory, Continental is right to reward loyalty based on the money travelers spend with them. Like any business, airlines make money based on the amount of dollars you spend, not the frequency of your visits. Like virtually all other loyalty schemes, frequent-flyer programs should be based on spending, not mileage accumulation. OnePass and all the others should be dollarized. That would mean better treatment for the travelers who spend the most, which is usually us business travelers.

But such clear thinking eludes the airlines. Rather than peg their Elite plans to dollars spent, they make us all feel like Dred Scott. By continuing to tie their programs to miles flown--and then giving us half-miles when we're lucky enough to score a discount--they tell us that we are half-a-customer. They tell us there are times, at least as business travelers, that we are somehow worth less than the other guy.

Business travelers hate being treated like subhumans. They hate it when airlines publicly trumpet a purported program upgrade one day and then stealthily hammer them with repugnant changes the next. They hate it when out-of-touch, overpaid, self-important CEOs like Gordon Bethune lie to them. They hate it when the Big Six think we are too stupid to see what they are doing. And they especially hate it when they see the Big Six making dumb decisions day after day, quarter after quarter, year after year, then blaming their financial losses on us.

Joe Brancatelli is a moron. CO made an intelligient move. I hope NW doesn't follow, but it wouldn't be stupid of them to do so. Airlines cannot keep giving away first class to people like me who fly $168.50 transcons. It just doesn't make sense. At the same time they can't peg elite status totally to dollar value, because the change woul dbe too sudden. They're moving in that direction slowly. Unfortunately when they created FF programs they created on heck of a monster, and now they have to tame that monster slowly. The 50% elite qualification on low fares is a smart move, and will probably be emulated by all airlines at some point.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
Joe Brancatelli is a moron. CO made an intelligient move. I hope NW doesn't follow, but it wouldn't be stupid of them to do so. Airlines cannot keep giving away first class to people like me who fly $168.50 transcons. It just doesn't make sense. At the same time they can't peg elite status totally to dollar value, because the change woul dbe too sudden. They're moving in that direction slowly. Unfortunately when they created FF programs they created on heck of a monster, and now they have to tame that monster slowly. The 50% elite qualification on low fares is a smart move, and will probably be emulated by all airlines at some point.</font>

You're right: they created the so-called "monster" but remember, it's THEIR baby and, no, Joe isn't a moron.

NW's approach last year was the wisest of the bunch. They found a way to reward high rollers without alienating the rest of the elites. NW's example was the one to follow.

I agree: $168.50 for a transcon is insane but who was the idiot who came up with that price? The airline.

As for elite benefits, remember they really aren't money losers for an airline.

There is a great deal of schizophrenic behavior in airline management so let's utilize simple economics here.

You're a CO silver elite. You're flying today from CLE to EWR. Your ticket cost you $295 because you bought it in advance. Yesterday CO discovered it had unsold seats in F so you got an "upgrade" to F.

As a practical matter, this upgrade started out as essentially revenue neutral. You may not be CO's most profitable customer, but they made you happy and you'll buy more CO tix.

But wait--there's more to the story.

When you were moved out of your premium coach seat, that seat became available for sale for a last minute flyer who would pay $1187 for the cheapest fly-in, fly-out ticket today. Hmmm...there was a potential $892 profit on that just vacated seat which was available for sale to the MOST profitable customer, the walk-up.

Of course, profit opportunities will vary and I cited the best care scenario but that illustrates that at worst, it's revenue neutral and at best, potentially quite profitable.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dick Ginkowski:
When you were moved out of your premium coach seat, that seat became available for sale for a last minute flyer who would pay $1187 for the cheapest fly-in, fly-out ticket today. Hmmm...there was a potential $892 profit on that just vacated seat which was available for sale to the MOST profitable customer, the walk-up.</font>

True, but it makes far more sense to allow the $1187 guy to upgrade, than to allow the $295 guy to upgrade. That's the point. To get the $295 people out of the way so the $1187 people can upgrade more often.

[This message has been edited by SRQ Guy (edited 09-19-2003).]

SRQ Guy

This quote from you
"Trust me, I dislike the thought of travelling in coach as much as the next guy, but my elite qualification on multiple $168.50 transcons zig-zagging across the country in F provides little or no financial benefit to NW."

In fact there was a very well written statement from somebody on here last month. That explained in great detail this was wrong.

I may wreck it but it was to the effect of.

If you fly in a seat NW gets $168.50xhow many ever flights.

If no one fills that seat NW gets $0.00

------------------
Sorry mama i gots to get all the miles i can

Brian

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by brians51:
If you fly in a seat NW gets $168.50xhow many ever flights.

If no one fills that seat NW gets $0.00
</font>

That's true to some extent, but there is a definite cost of treating that person to F service. On my last TPA-IAH-MSP-LAX-MSP-IAH-TPA they probably spent more than $168.50 to get my butt to LAX and back. First of all only about $130 or so of that was airfare. The rest was taxes. I got meals on 4 of the 6 legs, had drinks on all 6 legs, my body weight means a certain amount of extra fuel burn, and I drank cocktails in the Worldclubs/President's Clubs (on a DL CRC membership no less). They also had to give me ~7000 EQM's and 13000 miles, which go in their books as a liability. They certainly didn't make any money and probably lost money on my ticket.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
True, but it makes far more sense to allow the $1187 guy to upgrade, than to allow the $295 guy to upgrade. That's the point. To get the $295 people out of the way so the $1187 people can upgrade more often.

[This message has been edited by SRQ Guy (edited 09-19-2003).]</font>

Its first come first served.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Arcolaio99:
Its first come first served.</font>

Which is exactly why they're trying to get rid of the low-fare elite. To get them out of the queue for upgrades, so the high-fare last minute flyer can get them. As well as so that they can reward the high-fare flyer who might only fly 20,000 miles per year.

This is one reason why CO likes to leave F seats open until just before the flight (A9F0). I can't say I blame them one bit for doing that. As they release seats from A to F they do so according the status/fare class rules they have defined. This allows a walk-up to buy an F seat if desired. Of course that doesn't happen too often, but I guess it does happen.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
Which is exactly why they're trying to get rid of the low-fare elite. To get them out of the queue for upgrades, so the high-fare last minute flyer can get them. As well as so that they can reward the high-fare flyer who might only fly 20,000 miles per year.</font>

I think the A9F0 of CO should have taken care of this "scenerio" by now... The GA should then be able to upgrade based on Y Fare, Plat, Gold & Silver.... if this TRUELY is a problem.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by brians51:

In fact there was a very well written statement from somebody on here last month. That explained in great detail this was wrong.

I may wreck it but it was to the effect of.

If you fly in a seat NW gets $168.50xhow many ever flights.

If no one fills that seat NW gets $0.00

</font>

This is what I posted recently...which I think reflects what you are saying...

"Unfortunately, this is much more difficult than can be possibly explored fully here. The airline offers these fares not only because the competition does, but they also need to fill the seats because these incremental revenue dollars help to defray fixed overhead costs. It would be great if the airline could sell every ticket at full fare, but that isn't realistic. When we talk about these "cheap elites" we have to view it as incremental revenue. The plane flies because of the full fare pax and the airline keeps flying because of all other pax. The same is true in most mature industries.

Executives struggle with this problem every day. It isn't only about total revenue, but more importantly, margin and ultimately net income. Let's take a DC 9-30 with 86 coach and 8 F seats. There are no F revenue pax. There are the 10% (9) high revenue pax paying $500, generating $4,500 in revenue. The rest of the plane is empty.
This route would be cancelled or the airline would go bankrupt.

Now, take the same plane and add 70% cheap fare pax at $139 each making this route at 80% loads. They (66) generate $9,174 in revenue. These pax keep the airline flying.

The only way to combat the necessity of low margin customers is to reduce infrastructure (ie capacity). Remember, the incremental customer utilizing existing capacity is nearly all "profit". So, although the high revenue pax is important to any airline, the airline will not continue to survive without the rest of the cheap fare customers. The airline industry has been changed by the easier entry into the industry and excess capacity. Until this changes NW and others need to treat EVERY elite as valued customers.

You stated that "on a $139.00 ticket...he gets first class 95% of the time, as does his occasional companions esentially on a ticket that NW makes nothing from...of course".

NW actually makes $139, because if he didn't fly, NW would make $0. NW wouldn't save $139 if he didn't fly...maybe $20. Again, incremental costs. This is one of the easiest industries to measure incremental costs...I wish it were that simple in my industry.

Yes, I think that obscure routings are a haven for abuse and they themselves cloud the real load factors and ideal capacity. This has been created by the airlines in their own overly complex revenue management system. This is compunded by the hub and spoke system. This is one reason WN does not have this problem to the extent of the majors. WN has published routings that it is willing to accept for a particular city pair. There are ways to circumvent by booking single RT or OW tickets, but that is okay becuase the pax is responsible for all individual fares."

"Profit" is meant to refer to the traditional, not accounting definition.

In SRQ's example he may be correct that $130 doesn't cover his 4 F meals, drinks and extra fuel burn. How much do we value the meals and drinks at cost? We don't have enough facts to make an absolute determination. For example, the plane is stocked with a given number of meals, on how many of the flights was F full, so If he didn't get the upgrade, someone else would and still consume that food? Likewise, a plane is required to carry X pounds of fuel, would there really have been a difference with that one less passenger and what is that amount? Or, did he actually open a coach seat that was then sold?

As far as CO's move, I've chosen not to comment. Should NW make the same move, however, I do have a plan in place.

------------------
Randy
-------------------------
HH Gold; WN CP; NW Gold Elite

[This message has been edited by LUVSWA (edited 09-19-2003).]

Unless the airline "guesses wrong" and overbooks, thus having to give out cash (vouchers don't really count, because, unlike cash, they can only be used for products that the airline sets the price of), any seat filled with a paying passenger is a seat making money.

Say 5 seats at $100 on a plane. That's $500 times the number of flights a day -- what...thousands? So a million dollars a day....350 million a year.

You know what they say, 350 million here, 350 million there...pretty soon you are talking about real money. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

The true number would appear to be in excess of 1 BILLION dollars. That's real doggone money.

Steve

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
Which is exactly why they're trying to get rid of the low-fare elite. To get them out of the queue for upgrades, so the high-fare last minute flyer can get them. As well as so that they can reward the high-fare flyer who might only fly 20,000 miles per year.</font>

Its called tough luck. If you buy last than you get whats left.

What I posted in the CO forum on this particular subject:

________________________________________

What I disagree with is the concept of Dis-incenting loyalty.

If I buy 20 least expensive tickets today for my December travel, and give my chosen airline my loyalty, I expect them to appreciate the no-charge loan I just placed into their pocket.

CO's screwey plan is that any old shlep can come by on December 1st, also buy the cheapest ticket available at that time, and be treated better than me. Why? Because he can't plan ahead? Because his 1 ticket cost $50 more than one of my 20?

Ok, So they gain his business for that day, and lose mine for a lifetime.

And, guess what, that same poor shlep couldn't care less about CO, as he'll buy anyone's ticket at the last minute. He's off on BA next time, AA the time after that. CO just dumped their loyal customer who buys bulk and in advance for a "whim" purchaser.

You do the math.

Should we forget that many foreign airlines are profitable and still have decent ff programs and amenities like free alcoholic beverages? Maybe we need to start letting Air France, Lufthansa, and even South African Airways compete in the US market. To heck with the out-of-touch US network dinosaurs like DL and CO!

Great post by LUVSWA...good to see something levelheaded rather than all the "quit whining" nonsense from the crowd that believes companies in general can do no wrong.

They could have addressed the "problem" of high-fare payers getting beaten out for upgrades by low-fare ones with something narrower like changing the EUA order. By mimicking DL instead, they're making people decide it's time to jump ship. I can only see negatives for revenue here.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Arcolaio99:
Its called tough luck. If you buy last than you get whats left.</font>

ROTFL! Did you ignore my last post? that's why the airlines are doing this. They need to attract the high-fare last minute buyer. The high-fare last minute buyer is a lot more likely to buy if he gets to jump ahead of the low-fare avance buyers. It sucks for us cheapskates, but it makes good business sense.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
[B] Did you ignore my last post? B]</font>

Well, mostly! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
ROTFL! Did you ignore my last post? that's why the airlines are doing this. They need to attract the high-fare last minute buyer. The high-fare last minute buyer is a lot more likely to buy if he gets to jump ahead of the low-fare avance buyers. It sucks for us cheapskates, but it makes good business sense.</font>

Than buy a F seat and not Y. Hwo about the companion upgrade. If I am with a Plat. I am getting the upgrade before any gold or silver and no status.

Well, I'm not sure what to think about this potential change to the elite program.

I admit, I am a high-fare flyer. But I fly mostly regionally from MSP, with lot of trips to ORD and DTW. My travel so far this year can be summed up with the following numbers:

26 trips (transactions) at a cost of $21,464.57
46 EQ Segments and 37,666 EQM
That's an average of $825/trip or $466 per segment.

Due to my frequent late-minute full fare tickets, I just requalified for Gold a couple weeks ago based on segments. I'll probably make it to Platinum by the end of October (again, on full fare segments).

After reading some posts in the Mileage Run forum about people that run around the world and make Gold or Platinum for less than $1000, it makes me wonder why NW wouldn't put more value on travelers with my profile. Actually, I think they do put more value on us, but they just don't show it. If this is an effort to reduce the elite pool so that those that actualy spend the money can more easily reap the rewards, I'm OK with that. Otherwise, I wish NW would find a way to reward they're high-gross customers.

[This message has been edited by msp_flier (edited 09-21-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Arcolaio99:
Than buy a F seat and not Y. Hwo about the companion upgrade. If I am with a Plat. I am getting the upgrade before any gold or silver and no status. </font>

That only works at the gate. Up until the gate agent shows up and starts working the flight, it goes by elite status. My point is that CO wants to give the upgrade to higher-fare flyers more often, and to lower-fare flyers less often. you can dispute that all you want, but the facts bear that out. It makes good business sense to give th ebest perks to the highest fares.

msp_flier, I presume your company pays for your travel and that your time is very valuable and hence you have to fly non-stop.

I cannot avoid pointing out that you are paying 'extortion fares' for your itineraries. Anything more than $299 for a domestic segment is what I would refer to as 'milking business travelers (and the businesses that pay for the trips) dry'.

I cannot but thank you for infusing Northwest airlines with lots of cash - you indeed probably foot a lot more of the bills of the airline than I do. Respectively, I do agree that you should get better treatment than I do, and should be treated like a king by this particular airline.

At the same time, I have to warn you that your life as 'royalty' may be short-lived. MSP is one of the very few cities left in the US without serious low-fare competition. The many jets that JetBlue, AirTran and Southwest ordered might possibly end up flying to MSP - and it is very likely, given how high the fares are.

When the $299 fares roll in, Northwest will loose most of us (the 'non-royalty', who don't pay $466 per segment) IF they have significantly cut our benefits. Hence, if I go from NW Silver to a non-status member, Southwest may end up having a MORE generous frequent flyer program for me. So I will switch.

As a result, NW's load factors will plummet. Not only will you be injecting them with $299 instead of $466 per segment, they will also have the coach cabin (previously full of $99 flyers like myself) quite empty. So, NW will not be able to sustain itself financially.

On the other hand, if NW does not CUT benefits to low-fare flyers and INCREASES benefits to high-fare flyers such as yourself (via Elite-qualifying segments, free airport food vouchers, increased award availability, etc.), it does have a chance of holding on to it's turf against the low-price, low-cost competitors.

A totally different question is, should we be patronizing a flawed business model, when Southwest and the like can save millions of airfare $ to both businesses and Ma and Pa Kettle flyers... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by msp_flier:
Well, I'm not sure what to think about this potential change to the elite program.

I admit, I am a high-fare flyer. But I fly mostly regionally from MSP, with lot of trips to ORD and DTW. My travel so far this year can be summed up with the following numbers:

26 trips (transactions) at a cost of $21,464.57
46 EQ Segments and 37,666 EQM
That's an average of $825/trip or $466 per segment.

Due to my frequent late-minute full fare tickets, I just requalified for Gold a couple weeks ago based on segments. I'll probably make it to Platinum by the end of October (again, on full fare segments).

After reading some posts in the Mileage Run forum about people that run around the world and make Gold or Platinum for less than $1000, it makes me wonder why NW wouldn't put more value on travelers with my profile. Actually, I think they do put more value on us, but they just don't show it. If this is an effort to reduce the elite pool so that those that actualy spend the money can more easily reap the rewards, I'm OK with that. Otherwise, I wish NW would find a way to reward they're high-gross customers.

[This message has been edited by msp_flier (edited 09-21-2003).]</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
That only works at the gate. Up until the gate agent shows up and starts working the flight, it goes by elite status. My point is that CO wants to give the upgrade to higher-fare flyers more often, and to lower-fare flyers less often. you can dispute that all you want, but the facts bear that out. It makes good business sense to give th ebest perks to the highest fares.

</font>

No its simpe if you are buying a full Y, than buy a full F. The companion may get the upgrade at the gate, but the plat companion under the new system will still get it before the full y unless he\she is plat as well. If I am buying full Y its no on CO that for sure. AA its automatic or so I think.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by msp_flier:
Well, I'm not sure what to think about this potential change to the elite program.

I admit, I am a high-fare flyer. But I fly mostly regionally from MSP, with lot of trips to ORD and DTW. My travel so far this year can be summed up with the following numbers:

26 trips (transactions) at a cost of $21,464.57
46 EQ Segments and 37,666 EQM
That's an average of $825/trip or $466 per segment.

Due to my frequent late-minute full fare tickets, I just requalified for Gold a couple weeks ago based on segments. I'll probably make it to Platinum by the end of October (again, on full fare segments).

After reading some posts in the Mileage Run forum about people that run around the world and make Gold or Platinum for less than $1000, it makes me wonder why NW wouldn't put more value on travelers with my profile. Actually, I think they do put more value on us, but they just don't show it. If this is an effort to reduce the elite pool so that those that actualy spend the money can more easily reap the rewards, I'm OK with that. Otherwise, I wish NW would find a way to reward they're high-gross customers.

[This message has been edited by msp_flier (edited 09-21-2003).]</font>

You raise some good points.

First, last year NW accelerated the ability to achieve elite status for those who buy price gouging fares. You are one of them.

On the other hand, it certainly seems like you are paying way too much and/or not being a prudent shopper. I realize that MSP is a captive NW market but there occasionaly are other options. Good luck.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Arcolaio99:
No its simpe if you are buying a full Y, than buy a full F. The companion may get the upgrade at the gate, but the plat companion under the new system will still get it before the full y unless he\she is plat as well. If I am buying full Y its no on CO that for sure. AA its automatic or so I think.</font>

It isnt always that simple some companies will not allow buying of F tickets.However I believe Yup tickets were designed to address this issue.I think one answer is to offer more YUP and BUP tickets.
-howie

I'm a low fare elite, and nope, I'm not switching yet. I've invested my money for the plat status for 2004 and will definitely utilize my benefit until its end.
I will likely be reduced to the silver status for 2005 despite flying 75000 miles in 2004, but I think the bucket of upgrade seats will still be there when it's time to upgrade. (besides, mostly everyone will be affected with this change, if it happens, and some of the affected gold and silver elites may not be an elite in 2005.) Northwest is still amongst the best airline out of Seattle with flight option to fly to Asia, Hawaii, and Europe. United comes close though. I'll miss the 125% bonus miles, almost 100% upgrade rate, discounted club benefits, exempt fees on award changes, and various other benefits, however.

I do think though that 25/50/100k mentioned by others in this thread makes more sense though... For low fare elites, 50/100/150k mile flying sounds unattainable.

[This message has been edited by jiburi (edited 09-21-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dick Ginkowski:
You raise some good points.

On the other hand, it certainly seems like you are paying way too much and/or not being a prudent shopper. I realize that MSP is a captive NW market but there occasionaly are other options. Good luck.</font>

I often have to book tickets at the last minute (1-2 days out) to destinations (DTW, ORD, etc) that require B or Y fares. I agree, the prices are crazy (sometimes $1300 RT to DTW). But that's what I have to work with.

My company won't force me to use budget airlines like AirTran, Southwest, Frontier, or commuters. I can also choose not to fly with connections and instead can take a direct flights if they're available. So as long as these company policies persists, I will continue to fly NW.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by stockmanjr:
It isnt always that simple some companies will not allow buying of F tickets.However I believe Yup tickets were designed to address this issue.I think one answer is to offer more YUP and BUP tickets.
-howie</font>

I agree. But than you run into the same argument that I am having with SRQ. It will only be eliminated of at the time of purchse of full Y a person is upgraded to F. Providing that seats are available. I think that is what you mean bu YUP. Than someone will argue that the last minute Y purchse ma end up with no F seat. To me its first some first served. Maybe the remedy is what CO does and hold back all upgrades unitl its just about pushback time.

In understanding management of any sort from an underling or "flunkie" perpective:

If the decision to be made results from several different options, ranging from the most sense and logical, to the most stupid and illogical, the decision that will be made will be the most stupid and illogical option.

Based on this assumption or "Rule of Management", then the forgone conclusion is that the NW FF Program will be at least a match of CO/DL program - but will probabbly be worse.

FWIW, I replied to that form letter response we all received regarding the Continental changes asking for more clarification. Here's the response:

Dear Bergamini,

Thank you for your recent e-mail.

Please be advised that at this time we have not had anything communicated to us that we will be following our partner airline
Continental on the changes to the Elite Qualification guidelines.

Thank you for contacting Northwest Airlines.

Sincerely,

Tina Ray
Executive Staff Assistant
WorldPerks Service Center

I really don't understand the types of responses some people are expecting:

Dear Mr. IndustrialPatent:
Thank you for contacting nwa WorldPerks. We will not be following the changes our partner Continental Airlines induced on its OnePass Frequent Flyer program. Instead we will eliminate the WorldPerks Elite program as we are eliminating First Class. This is in preparation of our sale to the Wal*Mart corporation; we will soon be known as Wal*Mart Airlines. Be sure to subscribe to our weekly e-mail newsletter -- you will be the first to know about bonus mileage oppertunities and fare rollbacks.

Mr. IndustrialPatent your business is important to us and we hope you'll continue to fly us in the future. I have forwarded your comments to our department managers; they will be used in future training programs.

Jon Doe
nwa WordPerks Support

[This message has been edited by IndustrialPatent (edited 09-22-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by IndustrialPatent:
I really don't understand the types of responses some people are expecting:

Dear Mr. IndustrialPatent:
Thank you for contacting nwa WorldPerks. We will not be following the changes our partner Continental Airlines induced on its OnePass Frequent Flyer program. Instead we will eliminate the WorldPerks Elite program as we are eliminating First Class. This is in preparation of our sale to the Wal*Mart corporation; we will soon be known as Wal*Mart Airlines. Be sure to subscribe to our weekly e-mail newsletter -- you will be the first to know about bonus mileage oppertunities and fare rollbacks.

Mr. IndustrialPatent your business is important to us and we hope you'll continue to fly us in the future. I have forwarded your comments to our department managers; they will be used in future training programs.

Jon Doe
nwa WordPerks Support

[This message has been edited by IndustrialPatent (edited 09-22-2003).]</font>

Don't forget the opening of the new hub at Bentonville, Arkansas!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by IndustrialPatent:
I really don't understand the types of responses some people are expecting:

Dear Mr. IndustrialPatent:
Thank you for contacting nwa WorldPerks. We will not be following the changes our partner Continental Airlines induced on its OnePass Frequent Flyer program. Instead we will eliminate the WorldPerks Elite program as we are eliminating First Class. This is in preparation of our sale to the Wal*Mart corporation; we will soon be known as Wal*Mart Airlines. Be sure to subscribe to our weekly e-mail newsletter -- you will be the first to know about bonus mileage oppertunities and fare rollbacks.

Mr. IndustrialPatent your business is important to us and we hope you'll continue to fly us in the future. I have forwarded your comments to our department managers; they will be used in future training programs.

Jon Doe
nwa WordPerks Support

</font>

That's good IP! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

not wanting to cross-post, but this is something that definately belongs in this thread. After getting an e-mail tonight I took a quick visit to the DL web site and found the following... looks like the colusion...ahem "alignment" has started...

Delta Medallion Program Updates (http://www.delta.com/skymiles/about/medallion_updates/index.jsp)

Interesting to note they take effect Sept 2003 Hmmmm kinda interesting that the changes in two partner programs mimic each other, all within a week...

If Beth was suprised at the CO announcement, wonder if she had any idea this was coming from DL. Looking forward to seeing who my preferred carrier will be Jan. 1... still hoping it will be Northwest.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by thezipper:
not wanting to cross-post, but this is something that definately belongs in this thread. After getting an e-mail tonight I took a quick visit to the DL web site and found the following... looks like the colusion...ahem "alignment" has started...

Delta Medallion Program Updates (http://www.delta.com/skymiles/about/medallion_updates/index.jsp)

Interesting to note they take effect Sept 2003 Hmmmm kinda interesting that the changes in two partner programs mimic each other, all within a week... </font>

Um, Delta annouced their changes last September, which is being implemented in phases and has also been under refinement.

Those changes are old news.

For Delta Medallion Program Updates, it is way too complicated for an average traveler.

If I were flying DL frequently, I would have trouble to memorize all these little details, numerous new changes, etc.

You need an attorney to read all the fine prints to determine if you can get unlimited 800-mile complimentary upgrade on X fare with Plat status or you have to pay Y dollars on Z fare with Gold or Silver status and get wait-listed.....

The DL SM Program, with all kinds of updates, now looks like IRS Tax Code!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by thezipper:


Delta Medallion Program Updates (http://www.delta.com/skymiles/about/medallion_updates/index.jsp)

Interesting to note they take effect Sept 2003 Hmmmm kinda interesting that the changes in two partner programs mimic each other, all within a week...

If Beth was suprised at the CO announcement, wonder if she had any idea this was coming from DL. Looking forward to seeing who my preferred carrier will be Jan. 1... still hoping it will be Northwest.</font>

I guess I was expecting some honesty from them, or at least saying whether they are forecasted or not. Sorry that expectation is met with derision!

Thanks IP your sense of humour is still at the high standard I have come to expect.
When it comes down to it if NW follows Dl and CO there is not much I can do about it except stay with NW (approx half my flights would still qualify for elite) or fly cheap on Sun Country. The trouble with Sun Country is with so few planes, if my flight has a problem they would put me on NW anyway.

Another WorldPerks partner, Alaska Air just "enhanced" their MVP program a couple days ago too.

Ugh.

My guess is that NW is waiting it out to see if CO rescinds, and that they basically don't want to go along with CO and DL but might if CO doesn't back down.

In a way they're hamstrung, because if NW could comp status for CO elites and could offer assurance that mileage credit would stay at 100%, then they could catch their share of the run-off. But the longer they wait, the more former CO elites will have new cards in hand from UA, AA, US, etc.

as another posted mentioned, remember how the NW domestic product is placed. It is not a revenue generator per se, like DL or CO, but rather more of a perk cabin for regular loyal customers to receive a somewhat nicer seat, meal, and service...more like a "super economy" than a true FC. Most of their FC sales are via D class type connect-first fares, which are not very expensive. I think NW will resist this move, and might force CO to rescind.

I would prefer sitting in NW FC 1000% over sitting in the coach cabin of DL or CO, or even AA/UA/US. If NW resists and comps/poaches CO elites, I will probably jump ship to NW.

Better yet, CO and NW should both tell Leo Mullin and his nasty bag of tricks to shove off and dump this unholy trinity.

I don't understand why anyone would say that NW's domestic F cabin is inferior to that of any othe rmajor US carrier. Most of my previous experience is on DL. NW's product is prtety much identical to DL's, but with more and better food. Sure the seats are cloth, but IMHO that's such a minor difference as to be insignificant. CO's F seats are a bit nicer (think more padded!) but the service on my CO flights thi syear has been identical to that on NW. NW's F cabin is fine. They just have a more sensible pricing plan than th eothe rmajors.

I'm glad that Richard Anderson has at least hinted that NW will not be following CO's changes. It coul dbe very smart for NW to sit idly by and collect customers from DL and CO.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
I don't understand why anyone would say that NW's domestic F cabin is inferior to that of any othe rmajor US carrier. Most of my previous experience is on DL. NW's product is prtety much identical to DL's, but with more and better food. Sure the seats are cloth, but IMHO that's such a minor difference as to be insignificant. CO's F seats are a bit nicer (think more padded!) but the service on my CO flights thi syear has been identical to that on NW. NW's F cabin is fine. They just have a more sensible pricing plan than th eothe rmajors.

I'm glad that Richard Anderson has at least hinted that NW will not be following CO's changes. It coul dbe very smart for NW to sit idly by and collect customers from DL and CO.</font>

I agree with you SRQ. I love getting the ug to F. Its a great seat compared to any coach seat. Free drinks and the meal when they serve it. If people are expecting SQ first than go to SQ. Unless you have the cash, bring a loan from your local bank as well.

don't misunderstand the meaning of my post...I just stated how NW places their FC cabin from a marketing perspective, not the quality of the product. I am very happy with FC on NW, and although at least some audio would be nice (nothing an mp3 player wouldn't fix anyway), I find the NW experience to be equal to, or greater than, anything I have experienced on DL or CO in the past couple years. I was only saying that from a marketing perspective, NW doesn't push the FC product with the same emphasis (or arrogance) as CO, nor does it view it as a fancy customer magnet (the way Bethune sees his).

I agree with you.

When I was sitting on CO's FC, the only thing makes feel different is the leather seat, compared to NW's cloth seat. Maybe the food is better? That I don't know. Maybe the service is better? That is subject to debate.

CO's B/F on EWR-NRT route seems better than WBC, in my experience. This is largely due to (1) better beds in B/F; (2) quieter interior in 777 instead of NW's 747.

There is nothing we could do about (2) unless NW replaces 747 by Airbus 380. I don't think Airbus 330 has the range of 8,000 miles. However, WBC will get flat bed soon.

One question: when will NW complete the process of upgrading the WBC on 747? I have a trip coming up MSP-NRT on Dec. 18 returning Jan. 10. Will I see the flat beds in the business class?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bocastephen:
don't misunderstand the meaning of my post...I just stated how NW places their FC cabin from a marketing perspective, not the quality of the product. I am very happy with FC on NW, and although at least some audio would be nice (nothing an mp3 player wouldn't fix anyway), I find the NW experience to be equal to, or greater than, anything I have experienced on DL or CO in the past couple years. I was only saying that from a marketing perspective, NW doesn't push the FC product with the same emphasis (or arrogance) as CO, nor does it view it as a fancy customer magnet (the way Bethune sees his).</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
I don't understand why anyone would say that NW's domestic F cabin is inferior to that of any othe rmajor US carrier. </font>

I agree there. I too find F cabin to be excellent. I really like First class food on NW. While I wish they had adjustable headrest, it's seats are fine. There's room for improvement on entertainment system however.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SRQ Guy:
I'm glad that Richard Anderson has at least hinted that NW will not be following CO's changes. It could be very smart for NW to sit idly by and collect customers from DL and CO.</font>

While hints by Richard Anderson may not necessarily implicate EQM changes at Northwest, I too believe that it would be a smart move for NW not to follow DL/CO. Gaining frequent flyers to its program is definitely an asset to the airline. I do, however believe that if CO/DL sticks to the plan of 50% EQM, NW elites days of "elite upgrade" on CO may be numbered. I would then fly Northwest exclusively.


[This message has been edited by jiburi (edited 09-24-2003).]

While I can't say Continental rescinded from the new EQM plan, I think Continental changed its position slightly by allowing web booking to count fully toward Elite Qualification.

I think the voices heard by its frequent flyers is working. I also think many of your letters written to NW are also helping sway NW's decision. Keep it up everyone!

[This message has been edited by jiburi (edited 09-24-2003).]

[This message has been edited by jiburi (edited 09-24-2003).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jiburi:
While I can't say Continental rescinded from the new EQM plan, Continental has changed its position slightly by allowing web booking to count fully toward Elite Qualification.</font>

But that option was always there! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by IndustrialPatent:
But that option was always there! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif</font>

I don't think so. The website/chart listing the changes on September 16 was definitely different than the one posted on September 19. The chart on September 16 did not have 100*/50 option for QSTL fares.... (although I recognize that they did post the "Earn Full Elite Miles online in 2004" page late on September 16th though)

(By the way, thanks for all of your contribution to this site! )



[This message has been edited by jiburi (edited 09-24-2003).]

Jiburi,

Do you know what happens on CO elites that fly on NW discount fares next year? My understanding is that they get whacked w/ the 50% EQM. Only CO.com booked will get the full deal.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.
I've been switching @ the gate & will hit NW Silver this weekend, already locked for CO Plat next year. Praying NW doesn't buckle.

Wingtip

If any of you have actually tried to book flights on CO.com you would know that the site is prone to being unavailable during "sales", often gives you an error due to "technical problems" and won't allow booking on anything but CO flights (including codeshares). Also, I've found that not all CO partner codeshares seem to be available (I have had problems finding certain KLM codeshares).

CO.com booking machine is terrible. It is almost impossible to book a NW or KLM flight there even if it is code-share.

Booking any flights on Co.com to Asia beyond NRT/HKG is out of question. This frustrates me.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by xyzzy:
If any of you have actually tried to book flights on CO.com you would know that the site is prone to being unavailable during "sales", often gives you an error due to "technical problems" and won't allow booking on anything but CO flights (including codeshares). Also, I've found that not all CO partner codeshares seem to be available (I have had problems finding certain KLM codeshares).</font>

It would be simple for Continental to promise 100% EQM for lower-tier fares booked through co.com... then just not display them, or display them minimally. They could dump most of their Q, K, etc. seats out to Orbitz and not show them on the site. If you can't find 'em there, you can't book 'em there, and you can't get full EQM there. So their "promise" could be technically valid but empty in practice.

Heck, they "promise" to offer standard mileage awards to Europe, too, but you can't hardly find them on the site...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BearX220:
It would be simple for Continental to promise 100% EQM for lower-tier fares booked through co.com... then just not display them, or display them minimally. They could dump most of their Q, K, etc. seats out to Orbitz and not show them on the site. If you can't find 'em there, you can't book 'em there, and you can't get full EQM there. So their "promise" could be technically valid but empty in practice.

Heck, they "promise" to offer standard mileage awards to Europe, too, but you can't hardly find them on the site... </font>

That is an excellent point, something I hadn't thought of, and really quite scary. These are the "A9F0" people after all. They sure have a history of deceptive crap like what you suggest.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by thesilb:
That is an excellent point, something I hadn't thought of, and really quite scary. These are the "A9F0" people after all. They sure have a history of deceptive crap like what you suggest.
</font>

I think certain changes are inevitable. I don't like it, but it is more likely to happen than not.

If Co gives only 50% EQM mileage to one pass members, that would logically apply to World perks members too flying on NW coded CO operated flights. If NW did not make any changes to it's programme, we will have two kinds of flights that will show up on NW schedule. Unsuspecting or unitiated will fly on NW ticketed CO metal thinking they would get full EQM. Moreover it places Co operated NW coded CO flights at a further disdvantage chipping at one of the benfits of code sharing. So my painful conclusion is that world perks changes to EQM for the cheap fares in inevitable

When a WP card holder flies CO and gets miles, who "pays" for them? NW or CO

If NW then it is a non issue.

If CO then it becomes a big problem.

In order to better align itself with its code-share partners, the wise move for NW will be to stop giving passengers on low-fare, loss-leader tickets the credit that their business justifies. NW needs to follow the trail already blazed by CO and DL, and could even lead by eliminating mileage-accrual on all deep-discount tickets. The idea is to reward your high-value customers, and treat low-value customers in a manner similar to their value.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Steal Sky Miles:
In order to better align itself </font>

The only ones that will be doing any alignment will be DL and CO... they will soon be either 'aligning' to Midway, TWA and Eastern http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif, or to Skywest http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Steal SkyMiles, welcome to FlyerTalk. Looks like you just registered today and you're barnstorming multiple forums telling us all how spoiled we are.

Look, I strongly disagree with you. A more evolved view of Customer Relationship Management demands that you look beyond today's revenue to the historical revenue trendline represented by each customer. If an airline rewards no more than today's fare class regardless of the customer's history, loyalty or lack thereof, then they're not building loyalty at all -- which is what these programs are for in the first place. Why not just can the whole program, upgrade the 16 most expensive tickets on the plane and be done with it?

Sophisticated CRM should blend revenue rewards with loyalty rewards without alienating entire tiers of customers, as CO and DL have done. DL at least is starting to grok the proportions of their miscalculation.

Finally, it ought to go without saying that in its worst economic straits ever, the airline industry should be cementing relationships with loyal customers, not destroying them. But I guess it doesn't.

According to Randy, the ID (Steal SkyMiles) is banned permanently :-)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BearX220:
Steal SkyMiles, welcome to FlyerTalk. Looks like you just registered today and you're barnstorming multiple forums telling us all how spoiled we are.

</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Wingtipflier:
Jiburi,

Do you know what happens on CO elites that fly on NW discount fares next year? My understanding is that they get whacked w/ the 50% EQM. Only CO.com booked will get the full deal.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.</font>

I don't have the answer to your question. I don't know how they will treat NW flights and the codeshare flights. Will they give you full CO EQM when you book your ticket at continental.com and flying codeshare NW flights? Hmm..

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Yaatri:
I think certain changes are inevitable. I don't like it, but it is more likely to happen than not.

If Co gives only 50% EQM mileage to one pass members, that would logically apply to World perks members too flying on NW coded CO operated flights. If NW did not make any changes to it's programme, we will have two kinds of flights that will show up on NW schedule. Unsuspecting or unitiated will fly on NW ticketed CO metal thinking they would get full EQM. Moreover it places Co operated NW coded CO flights at a further disdvantage chipping at one of the benfits of code sharing. So my painful conclusion is that world perks changes to EQM for the cheap fares in inevitable

</font>

My hope, while I have no input to their decision at all, was that all NW flights qualify for full EQM for NW's frequent flyer members, just as Continental is offering full EQM to CO's OnePass members when booked online. When a member flies its partner airline, that's when EQM is reduced to 50%, just to meet Continental and Delta's new program policies, likewise, if Onepass member flies NW flights, they will only receive 50% EQM. I think this is the best way to treat the situation should Northwest decide not to follow CO/DL.

Obviously, there will be DL/CO elite flyers who will upgrade using DL/CO status, and change the account to earn NW mileage on NW flights but by the end of 2004, NW will have won many valuable frequent flyers from its partner airlines. It'll be Northwest's gain, and CO/DL loss.

(If anyone reading this is a Northwest Worldperks agent, please suggest this to your boss as an alternative! Thanks! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif )

[This message has been edited by jiburi (edited 09-25-2003).]

[This message has been edited by jiburi (edited 09-25-2003).]

Maybe, or maybe not.

The issue in dispute is the calculation of EQMs, 50% or 100%.

EQMs are not miles credited to the account balance. So technically OP or WP members get 100% miles flown, plus class or elite bonus miles, regardless which airline they fly. This stays same, 2003, or 2004 or 2005 or whatever.

Then each airline decides how many EQMs you get. But if a WP member flys CO metal, I don't see CO is paying NW EQMs, no?


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by fromYXU:
When a WP card holder flies CO and gets miles, who "pays" for them? NW or CO

If NW then it is a non issue.

If CO then it becomes a big problem.</font>

jiburi writes: <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">While I can't say Continental rescinded from the new EQM plan, I think Continental changed its position slightly by allowing web booking to count fully toward Elite Qualification.</font>

Not exactly. The first big change was that they were offering 100% EQMs on low fares only thru June 2004 if those were booked on CO.com. So the CO.com element was always there.

After June 2004...it was only 50% EQMs on the lower fares, no matter where you booked 'em!

They then backpedaled (likely because of flack) to extend that CO.com "limited time promotion" waiver, until the end of 2004.

So as it stands now, beginning Jan 2005...only 50% EQMs on the lower fares even if you book on CO.com! 50% EQMs on those lower fares...period.

So nothing has fundamentally changed with their revision of policy. It's just a stay of execution for an additional 6 months.