>Many Americans who routinely travel to Canada may have more to worry about beyond passport requirements. Looks like the Canadians are using their access to U.S. criminal data bases to keep some Americans on the U.S. side.
This is an article from the Cleveland Plain Dealer:
Canada steps up criminal background checks at border
Posted by Jim Nichols December 03, 2007 20:00PM
Categories: Breaking News, Crime
You know that busybody neighbor who knows everybody's secrets and has no tolerance for anyone imperfect?
Yes, that neighbor -- Canada.
If you're considering a holiday visit to Niagara Falls or a Windsor casino, be advised: Canada doesn't want your company if you've ever gotten busted shoplifting, holding a joint or driving drunk.
And don't think Canada doesn't know.
Agreements struck in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks have opened the border to a much freer flow of criminal-background information between Canadian and U.S. law enforcement. Now, police at the international border can access the same records available to cops at the Lakewood-Rocky River border -- including that years-old DUI.
Consequently, Canadian agents at airports, bridges and other crossings are routinely turning away Yanks for some offenses considered minor or ancient back home.
***
"The last thing you need at Christmastime," the Toronto lawyer said, "is to have the kids and the presents all packed into the car, and then you arrive at the border and -- oops! That old skeleton pops out of the closet. And there goes Christmas."
seanthepilot
Dec 3, 07, 11:54 pm
I guess you reap what you sew.
Ocn Vw 1K
Dec 3, 07, 11:55 pm
Please follow this in our Newsstand forum. Ocn Vw 1K, moderator, TravelBuzz
Rejuvenated
Dec 4, 07, 12:23 am
This practice have been going on for a few years now. Not the first time I've heard someone been denied entry because of criminal record.
Hvr
Dec 4, 07, 12:24 am
I guess you reap what you sew. or even sow.
Exactly, how long have the Americans be doing this to other nations?
CousinNick
Dec 4, 07, 11:01 am
or even sow.
Exactly, how long have the Americans be doing this to other nations?
Somehow, I knew someone here would blame this on Yanks.
Maybe if you don't commit crimes, this is not a problem.
But I'm sure Canada is only doing this as a tit-for-tat thing, right?
Far as I can tell, this has been going on for years.
YVR Cockroach
Dec 4, 07, 3:21 pm
What the journalist doesn't go into is that it may well be part of U.S. policy:
They should have been so vigilant when Mohammed Atta and his pals came through Canada to get into the United States in September 2001. Also, is the U.S. going to do the same scrutinizing with Canadian citizens ?
pdx42
Dec 4, 07, 8:41 pm
...have been pretty painless outside of a one hour-long interrogation a couple of years ago at the Peace Bridge crossing in Buffalo heading into Canada. I've crossed in Blaine and Buffalo numerous times - usually a question or two and a wave to proceed. So, I assume the people who are getting turned around for criminal convictions are those subjected to additional checks where they require to see identification.
Jalinth
Dec 4, 07, 9:24 pm
They should have been so vigilant when Mohammed Atta and his pals came through Canada to get into the United States in September 2001. Also, is the U.S. going to do the same scrutinizing with Canadian citizens ?
?? Unfortunately, most of the attackers were legally in the US on visas. So why do you expect Canada to have done better than the INS?
As far as US scrutinizing, who do you think does it the most? Canadians were getting turned back a long time ago for petty things that were pardoned up here (this is equivalent to having your record sealed - it isn't a Libby type thing). Looks like Canada is unfortunately reciprocating. Stupid for much of it, especially the pot smoking given the general attitude up here.
AC110
Dec 4, 07, 9:44 pm
They should have been so vigilant when Mohammed Atta and his pals came through Canada to get into the United States in September 2001. Also, is the U.S. going to do the same scrutinizing with Canadian citizens ?
News flash.
None of the 911 hijackers came through Canada.
None of them.
This urban legend has been floating around since about 5 minutes after the first plane crashed into the WTC. It's regularly trotted out by the right wing blowhards who know better but are more concerned with how their bow tie looks under the television lights than with the truth. (Yes, the left wing has it's own blowhards, but this isn't one of their rants.)
Most or all of the 911 hijackers were legally in the US, but not one came in through Canada.
They should have been so vigilant when Mohammed Atta and his pals came through Canada to get into the United States in September 2001. Also, is the U.S. going to do the same scrutinizing with Canadian citizens ?
Refering back to the article cited (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2005Apr8.html) in my last post look at this;
"In August, Rep. Ruben Hinojosa (D-Tex.) declared to a congressional committee -- and repeated in a press release -- that "as we all know, terrorists entered the U.S. from Canada on Sept. 11, 2001, using passports that the Canadians accepted as valid despite the fact that the documents were doctored.""
Now he later retracted it because it wasn't true, but think about it for a moment. Even if he was right, he claimed that "terrorists entered the U.S. from Canada on Sept. 11, 2001, using passports that the Canadians accepted as valid despite the fact that the documents were doctored." So he thought it was Canada's fault that the US allegedly allowed these terrorists in using doctored passports. You'd think that if this dunce had the brains to get elected he'd be able to figure out the absurdity of his allegation. No surprise that it turned out to be a total crock.
Arthurrs
Dec 5, 07, 12:40 am
Also, is the U.S. going to do the same scrutinizing with Canadian citizens ?They have been for quite a long time! :rolleyes:
AC110
Dec 5, 07, 3:50 pm
They have been for quite a long time! :rolleyes:
FlyingNone has become strangely silent.
pdx42
Dec 5, 07, 3:58 pm
I don't know how Canadians feel about driving into the U.S., but I've always had a pretty painless experience crossing the border - and I'm usually driving solo.
AC110
Dec 5, 07, 8:33 pm
I don't know how Canadians feel about driving into the U.S., but I've always had a pretty painless experience crossing the border - and I'm usually driving solo.
I've never encountered problems either way. Generally the border ppeople are business like and speedy, our last trip the US border guy wisecracked that he was going to have to seize our tin of Tim Horton's coffee that I was taking as a gift for my brother in the US. He would have to prey it out of my cold finders.
Think we get testy about the 9/11 thing? Try messing with our coffee and see what happens. :p
FlyingNone
Dec 5, 07, 11:43 pm
FlyingNone has become strangely silent.
------------
No, I'm not strangely silent...I've been working all day, came home about 9:00 pm, watched TV, ate something and checked into Flyertalk at 12:41 a.m......This is the FIRST I'm reading about Atta supposedly not coming in through Canada, though.
general45
Dec 6, 07, 12:11 am
I live on the border. I have never encountered a problem going back and forth between our countries. You may be denied entry to Canada because of OUI's or minor law violations. I have employees who i can't send across for parts and supplies because of this. It's been that way as long as I can remember. You can get a "reprieve" however if you have been clean or demonstrated that you are not a threat to Canadian citizens. This info can be obtained from Immigration Canada. FWIW, I have had no problem going into Canada by uttering the following.
Canadian Immigration Agent-"Where are you going"?
General45-"To a hockey game".
Canadian Immigration Agent-"O.K. Have a good time".
:)
YVR Cockroach
Dec 6, 07, 1:34 pm
-This is the FIRST I'm reading about Atta supposedly not coming in through Canada, though.
Which goes to show how deep this myth has steeped into the ill/misinformed American mindset and how it persists.
Mohamed Atta was never a green-card holder. Worse still, he never had a valid entry visa. On the contrary, in January 2001, Atta was permitted reentry into the United States after a trip to Germany, despite being in violation of his visa status. He had landed in Miami on January 10 on a flight from Madrid on a tourist visa—yet he had told immigration inspectors that he was taking flying lessons in the US, for which an M-1 student visa is strictly required.
Essentially, Atta had entered the US three times on a tourist visa in 2001, although INS officials knew the visa had expired in 2000, and Atta had violated its terms by taking flight lessons.
What's better, Atta and another alleged hijacker had their U.S. visas approved 6 months later.
http://www.ilw.com/articles/2002,0328-Latour.shtm
I've always known Atta, et al, didn't come here through Canada. So much for that generalization.
Perhaps some people are getting Atta confused with Ressam.
Mabuk dan gila
Dec 6, 07, 4:36 pm
I always thought it ironic that I have traveled all over the world without restriction and personally know of no country that would reject me if I followed their immigration procedure EXCEPT Canada. Where me personally, I'm fairly sure they would reject me if they ran my name.
USA and the rest of the world yes. Canada, off limits. Go figure.:rolleyes:
AC110
Dec 6, 07, 6:37 pm
------------
No, I'm not strangely silent...I've been working all day, came home about 9:00 pm, watched TV, ate something and checked into Flyertalk at 12:41 a.m......This is the FIRST I'm reading about Atta supposedly not coming in through Canada, though.
Fair enough, perhaps I was a little snarky - for which I apologize.
The whole 'came through Canada' thing came up very quickly. The hijackers flew into Boston from some Portland, Maine the morning of 9/11. Apparently there is a ferry to Portland from Nova Scotia. Some people quickly jumped to the conclusion that they had come off the ferry from Canada.
However, they had driven from Boston on September 10th - their rental car was found in at the airport in Portland. Apparently they thought it would be easier to get through security at a small airport and would arrive in Boston behind the security perimeter, though they were wrong about that - they still had to clear security in Boston on 9/11.
There's a good writeup of the chronology at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Atta
A lot of politicians and idiot talking heads from across the political spectrum stirred the pot claiming the hijackers came in from Canada and it became conventional wisdom and seriously damaged Canada/US relations.
Personally I'm a dual citizen - Canadian born with strong family ties to the US, so I feel like I can see things from both sides.
However I must say that the whole urban legend about the 9/11 hijackers coming from Canada really strikes a raw nerve. It's like the commentators who criticize Canada for not pitching in in the war on terror, conveniently forgetting the many Canadian troops killed in combat in Afghanistan - a significant number of them by American friendly fire.
Hope this sets the record straight for those who read this.
Regards,
AC110
YVR Cockroach
Dec 6, 07, 6:40 pm
It's like the commentators who criticize Canada for not pitching in in the war on terror, conveniently forgetting the many Canadian troops killed in combat in Afghanistan - a significant number of them by American friendly fire.
The very 1st 4, in fact. The person responsible still doesn't want to acknowledge his role or fault.
CousinNick
Dec 6, 07, 11:27 pm
The very 1st 4, in fact. The person responsible still doesn't want to acknowledge his role or fault.
This person is from my home area. All I can say is war is hell, and any situation like this is sad. It's not the first time this has happened, and it's happened to/in various countries.
Something tells me your indignation wouldn't be nearly as righteous if some other country were at fault.
YVR Cockroach
Dec 7, 07, 11:15 am
This person is from my home area. All I can say is war is hell, and any situation like this is sad. It's not the first time this has happened, and it's happened to/in various countries.
Something tells me your indignation wouldn't be nearly as righteous if some other country were at fault.
The friendly fire incident was during an exercise and not during combat ops. From all accounts, Harry Schmidt was simply trigger happy.
Rejuvenated
Dec 7, 07, 10:17 pm
You can get a "reprieve" however if you have been clean or demonstrated that you are not a threat to Canadian citizens. This info can be obtained from Immigration Canada.
It's called being rehabilitated: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/conviction.asp
CousinNick
Dec 8, 07, 2:45 am
The friendly fire incident was during an exercise and not during combat ops. From all accounts, Harry Schmidt was simply trigger happy.
There are three sides to every story: Mine, yours and the truth.
fDodge
Mar 10, 08, 7:13 pm
I will be flying to Shanghai China next week. Our flight leaves from Boston and has a connection in Toronto on aircanada. I have a DUI offense on my record from 2004, will I encounter any trouble during the layover in Toronto?
From the internet research (including this site and the aircanada site) it looks like I will be required to go through Customs B. Has anyone heard of any other individuals in a similar situation having trouble going through customs B for a connecting flight?
I know that if I were visiting Canada I would not be allowed, but have no idea what the rules are about an international layover through Canada.
Best regards and thanks.
sbm12
Mar 10, 08, 9:18 pm
I know that if I were visiting Canada I would not be allowed, but have no idea what the rules are about an international layover through Canada.
I would call your local Canadian consulate ASAP and get an answer direct from them. My recollection is that Canada does not offer international transit for passengers heading TO the United States, so even if they let you through on the outbound you'll have to clear on the way home. And since you're "in Canada" when you clear, your plans to continue on may have little impact.
Make the call; don't risk something messing up your trip (though this may already have).
polonius
Mar 11, 08, 1:05 am
...have been pretty painless outside of a one hour-long interrogation a couple of years ago at the Peace Bridge crossing in Buffalo heading into Canada. I've crossed in Blaine and Buffalo numerous times - usually a question or two and a wave to proceed. So, I assume the people who are getting turned around for criminal convictions are those subjected to additional checks where they require to see identification.
Yes, I have several times been sent for "additional screening" in which they checked something on the computer and then asked a lot of questions about any criminal record. I said, no, unlike I respect and admire most in this world (Mahatma Gandhi, Lech Walesa, Nelson Mandela, and Jesus Christ) I've never been arrested, although I have tried very hard on a number of occaisions.
The policy is beyond revolting -- amongst many others, this means that Aun San Suu Kyi and all the other Burmese monks and others who were arrested en masse during recent pro-democracy protests in Burma cannot enter Canada. But a right-wing death squad leader like Uribe or a despot like king Abudalla of Saudi Arabia would waltz right in.
Top Tier
Mar 11, 08, 2:34 am
I find it a bit interesting that they won't let you into Canada if you were convicted of some minor offense years ago, but if they find you in Canada while you are wanted for triple murder in Texas or somewhere else where the death penalty applies, they won't send you back! :confused:
YVR Cockroach
Mar 11, 08, 11:35 am
There are three sides to every story: Mine, yours and the truth.
It gladdens my heart when I hear of coalition casualties.
YVR Cockroach
Mar 11, 08, 11:39 am
I find it a bit interesting that they won't let you into Canada if you were convicted of some minor offense years ago, but if they find you in Canada while you are wanted for triple murder in Texas or somewhere else where the death penalty applies, they won't send you back! :confused:
Canada doesn't have a death penalty and will not deport/extradite (in some cases) to where the death penalty can be imposed unless guarantees are given that the death penalty will not be sought. Canada will aid in rendition to countries that practise torture.
This ex-USMC was convicted after extradition when California assured he wouldn't receive the death penalty:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE5D61E38F932A35752C1A96E9482 60&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all