Southwest Rapid Rewards - The Impact of A-List on Families

Do not mean to start a flame war here, or discuss the merits of Southwest's revamped seating policy.
My question is very simple. For the non A-list family travellers, it seems to me that it would be relatively tough to even find 3 or 4 seats together with 60 people having boarded prior. On heavy traffic days - like Thanksgiving Sunday - it might be impossible. That is a big deal for parents with little kids.
While I agree that those that pay the premium price should get premium seating and family/leisure travellers should board after them, I also think that Southwest needs to provide a way for families to be able to sit together (no matter how far back in the plane).

I think the whole point of the new strategy is to make people who value getting first seating choice to pay a higher fare. I think the folks at Southwest would say something along the lines of: "if it's important to board first, pay a BusinessSelect fare, and you'll board first. If you'd prefer to ask people to move once on board, pay a regular fare."

I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.

If it were me I would do my darndest to check in 23 hours and 59 minutes before the flight. With the new Bix first fare and the new "A" list you will probably be towards the rear of the A group but finding seats together should be no problem.

Or Biz fare if you want to spell it that way....:p

I understand what you say. Hopefully, what is said about still being able to get an A boarding pass by online checkin might work on Thanksgiving Sunday (Yup, we're flying that day). Not sure if that will stay as a long term solution, As more people figure out the online checkin option for the A Boarding pass.

heavy traffic days - like Thanksgiving Sunday - it might be impossible.

I can't imagine you'll see to many business travellers flying on Thanksgiving Sunday so it'll be a good ole classic 23:59:59 BP war! Plus I doubt there is ever more than 5-10 A listers on a flight unless it is a heavy biz route on a Monday morning.

Thanksgiving travel would be less of an issue than a LAX-SFO on a friday afternoon. Thanksgiving flights have a lot of occasional travelers but LAX-SFO has a lot of biz travelers.

While it's pretty easy to build a scenario where seat-swapping is needed (I've seen it once since the new system started...leaving MCO), it won't be a regular event.

Most of the 737s have about 23 rows of seats or 46 three seat sets. Assuming that all 60 A's are assigned (with the 15 being held for BS pax I doubt that there will be 60 people in the A line, but that leaves room for a few preboarders) and that every traveler is a single that wants to be as far from another person as possible, would mean that the first child-families would board with 14 sets of sets occupied by two people and 32 by one person.

Those 14 sets with two persons will result in no less than three sections of single seat pax (or one or two very large sections). Each section will have several rows (about 7) front or behind each other. No less than half of the single seat rows will have a single seat row opposite.

As a result, a family of 6 knows that it can expect to sit adjacent to each other. (In front of, behind or accross from) in three rows of 2. This holds for at least the first three families of this size. After that it is possible for families to block contiguous seats but it would take a lot of coordination.

Now, if I'm traveller with a three and a six year old, then this doesn't work for me. However, I've outlined an extreme here. In that first group of 60 there will be some people willing to sit next to each other. (Just to get the exit rows and bulkhead seats, if nothing else. :<) ) And pax rarely spread themselves out evenly through the plane.

The "best" scenario here (short of all of the A's sitting three across) is that all of the A's sit two across. That would leave 16 empty sets of three seats for the child-families. It is possible that none of these open sets would be immediately adjacent to another open set.

Of course, we can go for the "reductio ad absurdum" arguments that FTers seem to enjoy by assuming 60 through pax or 32 single preboarders.

I feel that giving the A-Listers (which I am not) this benefit at the expense of child-families (of which I no longer am) is a reasonable trade. It is very unlikely that a family will not be able to sit together and totally reasonable to show the airline's most loyal pax a little LUV. As a stockholder I want Gary to keep the high paying and/or regular customers most happy and offer great fares to the rest of us.

Finally, there's nothing that says that a family cannot get a boarding number of 45 or so (by using OLCI at 24 hours). Then all of this analysis is moot.

(See, no flames. :D)

Nicely done, EJ!!

I think two things are being missed here.

1) A young child has to be seated next to a parent - it is an FAA requirement and a FA will see that this happens if it is a problem.

2) If you want assigned seats don't fly WN.

What would be the impact of proliferous instances of parents asking others to switch seats?

How easily could flight crew treat the following as very special people:
1. Anyone who moved to accommodate a family,
2. Any child forced to sit alone.

Just this may reduce parents' asking.

Travel tips: http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/travel.htm

I also think that Southwest needs to provide a way for families to be able to sit together (no matter how far back in the plane).

The Flight Attendants do a pretty good job at this, as you can see by reading the new thread at blogsouthwest.com. They will reserve rows at the back if alerted by the gate agents, for example.

Also note that flights with high numbers of A-Listers are commuter flights. These are not at all the same flights that have large numbers of families. It's almost like two different airlines.

Hi all,

What I don't understand is this...

If I were someone travelling with my family, why couldn't I buy myself a business select ticket, and buy my family the cheapest tickets. Can't they just board with me in the early A group?

I know it's absurd to think I could bring 8 other people on with me under the above scenario, but what if I am just travelling by myself (no other adult) with a child or 2. Would they tell the Buis Select traveller that s/he can board with Buis select, but the kids can't? What if it's me, 2 kids, and another adult?

AM I missing something?:confused:

I know it's absurd to think I could bring 8 other people on with me under the above scenario, but what if I am just travelling by myself (no other adult) with a child or 2. Would they tell the Buis Select traveller that s/he can board with Buis select, but the kids can't? What if it's me, 2 kids, and another adult?

AM I missing something?:confused:

You're missing that the default policy is nobody is allowed to accompany you. The gate agent can cut you a break if you appear to deserve it. Otherwise she might offer to downgrade you from BS to full fare and refund your $15, letting you board with your family when it's their turn.

They will reserve rows at the back if alerted by the gate agents, for example.

The FAs I've asked about this says it doesn't work that way as they have no authority to save seats or rows for anyone.

I don't know if this could work for SWA, but maybe they could assign seats for the A-List flyers. If a person makes the A-List, maybe in their profile they could list what row/seat they prefer, maybe three choices. Availability of thier seat choice would be based upon purchase date and time. If their seat choice is not available, then they would get A-listed, 1 thru what ever. With that said, these assigned seat folks would still have to board prior to the A-Listed folks, or even before the regular A-List passengers. Obviously the flight attendants would have to pay attention to the seats that these assigned seated passengers take. Maybe this would be too much work, who knows. But the business flyer who pays alot or even the very frequent flyer should get first seat choice.

You're missing that the default policy is nobody is allowed to accompany you. The gate agent can cut you a break if you appear to deserve it. Otherwise she might offer to downgrade you from BS to full fare and refund your $15, letting you board with your family when it's their turn.

Is this written in the policy? I don't believe I read that anywhere. I have looked through the WN web site and find nothing that says that, or anything else other than 1 free drink and 2 RR credits. Not even the FAQ has been updated.

The other problem with the boarding procedures is that sometimes people travelling together will have different reservation numbers because they booked separately, used a Rapid Rez. ticket, etc. They will have different boarding numbers. If some of these people happen to be children, won't they let them board together?

I just posted this over at blogsouthwest:

If you do the math, you can see that it's not going to be that much harder to get an "A" boarding pass than before. First, there are now 60 "A" slots rather than 45. Passengers have reported that the first 15 slots are empty so far, meaning 15 unsold Business Select seats. So A16 is almost as good as the old A1.

How many A-Listers are on your flight? Maybe 5, unless it's a commuter flight, in which case there won't be many families (I commute by air, and I rarely saw preboarding families under the old system).

But you know what? Those A-Listers knew the system cold, and they were already getting A's every time. So what you have is a pool of 45 A's, JUST LIKE BEFORE!!

I don't think people will see any real difference in their ability to get an A with the new system.

I don't know if this could work for SWA, but maybe they could assign seats for the A-List flyers. If a person makes the A-List, maybe in their profile they could list what row/seat they prefer, maybe three choices. Availability of thier seat choice would be based upon purchase date and time. If their seat choice is not available, then they would get A-listed, 1 thru what ever. With that said, these assigned seat folks would still have to board prior to the A-Listed folks, or even before the regular A-List passengers. Obviously the flight attendants would have to pay attention to the seats that these assigned seated passengers take. Maybe this would be too much work, who knows. But the business flyer who pays alot or even the very frequent flyer should get first seat choice.

I'd say this isn't workable on continuing flights.

I just posted this over at blogsouthwest:

If you do the math, you can see that it's not going to be that much harder to get an "A" boarding pass than before. First, there are now 60 "A" slots rather than 45. Passengers have reported that the first 15 slots are empty so far, meaning 15 unsold Business Select seats. So A16 is almost as good as the old A1.

How many A-Listers are on your flight? Maybe 5, unless it's a commuter flight, in which case there won't be many families (I commute by air, and I rarely saw preboarding families under the old system).

But you know what? Those A-Listers knew the system cold, and they were already getting A's every time. So what you have is a pool of 45 A's, JUST LIKE BEFORE!!

I don't think people will see any real difference in their ability to get an A with the new system.

But getting an A now is not like getting an A before. Previously, there was a large difference ( if you cared ) between A and B. Now there is virtually no difference between A60 and B1.

But getting an A now is not like getting an A before. Previously, there was a large difference ( if you cared ) between A and B. Now there is virtually no difference between A60 and B1.

True, but it works both ways. Those of us who habitually joined the A line at the end have been upgraded.

While I never liked the fact that the rugrats got to board first and their parents would hold everyone up trying to cram a household of baby crap in the overheads...

the simple fact is this...

At least you knew where the crying babies were when you finally boarded.

Yesterday... there were only 3 kids on the whole flight. I went toward the back figuring look at all that space up front. Those families will snag it no problem.

Instead I had a family of 4 squeeze in across the aisle.

To top it off, the woman sat in the aisle seat and breastfed the infant.

OMG. I know, I know, it's a natural part of life.

Guess what, so is having sex and trust me you don't want to sit across the aisle from me doing that!

My point is, I got ambushed. I used to just board and find a seat far far away from the families.

Sigh : )