Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - Married CX segments hamper business travel

[I cannot find previous discussion of this question on this forum]

I've recently become aware of the concept of a "marriage" between two consecutive flight segments. I understand that this is not unique to CX but its recent application by CX has caused me significant inconvenience.

I booked two consecutive segments CX100/293 (SYD-HKG-FCO), with a reasonably short layover at HKG, because originally I was not planning to break my trip in Hong Kong. Subsequently, however, I needed to include Bangkok in my itinerary so I asked the travel agent to bring my CX100 forward by several days so that I could fly HKG-BKK-HKG before taking CX293. I've made changes of this kind for many years with many airlines and never considered that it might be a problem.

Well, it turns out this time that CX absolutely and repeatedly refuse to allow me to do this, in the sense that if I change my CX100 reservation I will automatically lose my CX293 reservation and go back on to the waitlist that I was on originally, a risk I cannot afford to take now.

Is there someone more savvy with aviation economics than I am who can explain to me the rationale for this kind of policy? I'm also interested to know how common this situation is on other airlines.

[I cannot find previous discussion of this question on this forum]

I've recently become aware of the concept of a "marriage" between two consecutive flight segments. I understand that this is not unique to CX but its recent application by CX has caused me significant inconvenience.

I booked two consecutive segments CX100/293 (SYD-HKG-FCO), with a reasonably short layover at HKG, because originally I was not planning to break my trip in Hong Kong. Subsequently, however, I needed to include Bangkok in my itinerary so I asked the travel agent to bring my CX100 forward by several days so that I could fly HKG-BKK-HKG before taking CX293. I've made changes of this kind for many years with many airlines and never considered that it might be a problem.

Well, it turns out this time that CX absolutely and repeatedly refuse to allow me to do this, in the sense that if I change my CX100 reservation I will automatically lose my CX293 reservation and go back on to the waitlist that I was on originally, a risk I cannot afford to take now.

Is there someone more savvy with aviation economics than I am who can explain to me the rationale for this kind of policy? I'm also interested to know how common this situation is on other airlines.

It is not clear abotu your situation. Do you have 2 seperate CX tickets under 2 seperate CX CUPID PNRs or 1 CX ticket for SYD-HKGx-FCO but under 2 CX CUPID PNRs?

If it is the former, than whatever you do with SYD-HKG has no effect on HKG-FCO.

I was another victim of the married segments thing on CX.
I understand that they feel the need to do that to protect their yields from different markets, but it is a big headache when you want to change your travel plans. This happens in ALL classes.

For me, the next time I book Cathay and the fare rule allows, I will ask my travel agent to book each segment separately (in the above example SYD-HKG and HKG-FCO separately) and just pay the additional airport taxes for the additional 'stopovers'.

Antiqantas, I finally got the thing fixed (changing the second leg without cancelling my first leg) when I spoke to the right agent on the phone at CX Reservations in Hong Kong. Nobody else could help me (called CX reservations and went to city ticketing office in my city, called Marco Polo Club service center, etc.). You might want to try calling CX in Hong Kong.

It is not clear abotu your situation. Do you have 2 seperate CX tickets under 2 seperate CX CUPID PNRs or 1 CX ticket for SYD-HKGx-FCO but under 2 CX CUPID PNRs?

If it is the former, than whatever you do with SYD-HKG has no effect on HKG-FCO.

I don't think OP has ticketed. Otherwise, it will require a re-issue anyway.

If it is a promotional fare, there may be fare/POS restictions:
* No stopover. If you make that change, there can be a price change (not just because of airport taxes). The fare class may not be available for any of the original segments. In other words, it is like a new booking.
* No add-on segments allowed. This is easier to take care of - just book and ticket separately and link them together.

StarG, I agree very much. Even if I do not book with stopovers, when I ticket, I always have all o's instead of any x's. My travel plan changes often enough that I would rather pay the additional taxes.

Do you mean calling MPC? MPC should help as they may be able to do something on the priority. There is a catch. They normally cannot change the dates or add the segments before you ticket. If they do, your TA may not be able to access the PNR anymore. If you ask your TA to make the date change, then the second segment is at risk.:(

It is not clear abotu your situation. Do you have 2 seperate CX tickets under 2 seperate CX CUPID PNRs or 1 CX ticket for SYD-HKGx-FCO but under 2 CX CUPID PNRs?
If it is the former, than whatever you do with SYD-HKG has no effect on HKG-FCO.I haven't ticketed yet. It's one PNR, as far as I know, and will be one ticket when it's issued.
I was another victim of the married segments thing on CX.
I understand that they feel the need to do that to protect their yields from different markets, but it is a big headache when you want to change your travel plans. This happens in ALL classes.Interesting.

For me, the next time I book Cathay and the fare rule allows, I will ask my travel agent to book each segment separately (in the above example SYD-HKG and HKG-FCO separately) and just pay the additional airport taxes for the additional 'stopovers'.I suspect that I would not have been able to book two separate segments. In fact, I was waitlisted on both and both magically came through at the same time. It seems unlikely that CX100 by itself would have been full so far in advance.

Antiqantas, I finally got the thing fixed (changing the second leg without cancelling my first leg) when I spoke to the right agent on the phone at CX Reservations in Hong Kong. Nobody else could help me (called CX reservations and went to city ticketing office in my city, called Marco Polo Club service center, etc.). You might want to try calling CX in Hong Kong.I've done that at times but I was reluctant to do it this time in case it threw my travel agent into convulsions or had some other unexpected consequences. I've now admitted defeat because the deadline for departing earlier to take in a side-trip to Bangkok has now passed.
I don't think OP has ticketed. Otherwise, it will require a re-issue anyway.Correct.
If it is a promotional fare, there may be fare/POS restictions:No, it's a full fare, but still apparently subject to these "marriage" restrictions that go beyond any rules that CX actually publish.

.....No, it's a full fare, but still apparently subject to these "marriage" restrictions that go beyond any rules that CX actually publish.

Married segments availability is practiced by all major carriers. It is an issue of fare bucket availability for given O/D and has nothing to do with fare rules. It can also work to your advantage as I have seen it the other way around sometimes. For example, JFK-HKG-SIN is available while JFK-HKG is not available for the same flight.

Married segments availability is practiced by all major carriers. It is an issue of fare bucket availability for given O/D and has nothing to do with fare rules. It can also work to your advantage as I have seen it the other way around sometimes. For example, JFK-HKG-SIN is available while JFK-HKG is not available for the same flight.Indeed, I was surmising that I only got HKG-FCO because I also wanted a connecting SYD-HKG. However, it would be nice to be told at the time of confirmation that your reservation is subject to such a restriction, so that you know in advance that you won't be able to interrupt your itinerary. Maybe my travel agent let me down here. They were trying to find a HKG-BKK-HKG itinerary for me on the assumption that I could bring my SYD-HKG flight forward. Only when they were able to confirm such an itinerary for me (on TG) and attempted to move my SYD-HKG flight forward did they discover the marriage that made it impossible.

Married segments availability is practiced by all major carriers. It is an issue of fare bucket availability for given O/D and has nothing to do with fare rules. It can also work to your advantage as I have seen it the other way around sometimes. For example, JFK-HKG-SIN is available while JFK-HKG is not available for the same flight.

Understood that it is not just something that CX does. And yes, it can work to your advantage (as you described).
However, I have never had a 'married segment' issue when changing my booking on SQ. Don't understand why.

cxfan1960, I called MPC which connected me to CX ticketing in HKG.

Airlines that have problematic married segments are not unique. Its the way the airline controls inventory.

LX, LH, BA, QF and SQ are infamous for having such tactics. CX is actually slow to join the band wagon on this.

I am confused at the op and the replies on this tread. Since the booking hasn't been ticketed how come he can't just ask CX to change the SYD-HKG date? and then ask CX to create a seperate HKG-BKK-HKG booking? Seems it is not a difficult process. Also on the booking level, other than the fare class CX does not know the fare rules at this stage until you goto ticketing (then they will determine the price based on the rules and calculate things like HIP etc...)?

I am confused at the op and the replies on this tread. Since the booking hasn't been ticketed how come he can't just ask CX to change the SYD-HKG date? and then ask CX to create a seperate HKG-BKK-HKG booking? Seems it is not a difficult process. Also on the booking level, other than the fare class CX does not know the fare rules at this stage until you goto ticketing (then they will determine the price based on the rules and calculate things like HIP etc...)?I said originally that CX wouldn't let the travel agent change the date of my SYD-HKG flight without at the same time cancelling the HKG-FCO reservation (being "married" segments). Making a separate HKG-BKK-HKG reservation (with TG) was no problem. The issue was that I couldn't afford to lose my confirmed seat to FCO, which I would have done if I had changed the date of my SYD-HKG flight.

I found out today that CX does not get me waitlisted on a preferred flight unless I cancel the confirmed (less preferred) segment on the same route of a two-sector reservation.

I really don't understand the logic. The reservation agent I talked to was apologetic for the rule she also said she finds odd.

I was confirmed CX 509 NRT-HKG and same-day connection CX 701 HKG-BKK in D.

I then requested CX to waitlist me on CX751, which will get me in BKK earlier. I was told I have to give up CX701 to get waitlisted for CX751.

(CX509 still has a few business class seats available but economy appears oversold and CX is therefore withholding sale of business class, I was told. This is eating into the D inventory of any connections this flight has including CX751, which is showing 9 for J, C, D and I when checked as a sole HKG-BKK flight.)

I thought I could be waitlisted even if I have a confirmed segment. This does not seem to be the case under married segment rules.

I lodged a complaint.

I found out today that CX does not get me waitlisted on a preferred flight unless I cancel the confirmed (less preferred) segment on the same route of a two-sector reservation.

I really don't understand the logic. The reservation agent I talked to was apologetic for the rule she also said she finds odd.

I was confirmed CX 509 NRT-HKG and same-day connection CX 701 HKG-BKK in D.

I then requested CX to waitlist me on CX751, which will get me in BKK earlier. I was told I have to give up CX701 to get waitlisted for CX751.

(CX509 still has a few business class seats available but economy appears oversold and CX is therefore withholding sale of business class, I was told. This is eating into the D inventory of any connections this flight has including CX751, which is showing 9 for J, C, D and I when checked as a sole HKG-BKK flight.)

I thought I could be waitlisted even if I have a confirmed segment. This does not seem to be the case under married segment rules.

I lodged a complaint.

Interesting, I do not understand the logic too. It sounds more like their IT problem than rules.

My feeling is that you can ask when you check-in, by then they may have more flexibility.

I found out today that CX does not get me waitlisted on a preferred flight unless I cancel the confirmed (less preferred) segment on the same route of a two-sector reservation.

I really don't understand the logic. The reservation agent I talked to was apologetic for the rule she also said she finds odd.

I was confirmed CX 509 NRT-HKG and same-day connection CX 701 HKG-BKK in D.

I then requested CX to waitlist me on CX751, which will get me in BKK earlier. I was told I have to give up CX701 to get waitlisted for CX751.

(CX509 still has a few business class seats available but economy appears oversold and CX is therefore withholding sale of business class, I was told. This is eating into the D inventory of any connections this flight has including CX751, which is showing 9 for J, C, D and I when checked as a sole HKG-BKK flight.)

I thought I could be waitlisted even if I have a confirmed segment. This does not seem to be the case under married segment rules.

I lodged a complaint.

That absolutely doesnt make sense...you are allowed 3 w/l and 1 cnfmed booking per sector PNR. I think the person was mistaken or hungover, try calling back again and speaking to another agent.

Yes if they confirmed CX751 for u, you would have to give up CX701 booking (which I beleive u have no problem with)....

Interesting, I do not understand the logic too. It sounds more like their IT problem than rules.

My feeling is that you can ask when you check-in, by then they may have more flexibility.

Yup, the agent I spoke to told me that on the day of departure, the reservation will be airport-controlled and so long as there is a seat available, I should be able to get on an earlier flight.

The agent, in fact, called me back later and said she talked to a supervisor and got authorization to waitlist me on the desired flight, which she said a regular agent is not allowed to do.

My grievance is resolved. Now I only hope that the waitlist be cleared.

The time around Chinese New Year is a fun time for CX reservations :rolleyes:

Son#1 is in Tokyo today 30 Jan with ticket issued in PER
holds 31 Jan CX 509 to HKG w/l and CX 171 to PER confirmed
holds 04 Feb same flights confirmed through to PER.

Interestingly enough CX agents in Tokyo are saying there is no availability on 31 Jan CX509 even though when looked at on Expert Flyer as NRT-HKG it shows (really) wide open. When viewed as NRT-HKG-PER no availability either flight.

The local TA is trying to find out what the real issue is.

Any thoughts?

Fred

What class? The flight is pretty full in economy.

What class? The flight is pretty full in economy.

Yes economy on 31 Jan. Perhaps a point of sale issue with expertflyer as the following is showing

Departing 01/31/09 - Saturday
CX () 509 0 NRT
01/31/09 9:15 AM HKG
01/31/09 1:25 PM 773
Daily
89% / 11m J7 C7 D7 I7 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S9 N9 Q9 O9

The TA has confirmed full as well.......

Any potential joy at showing up and checking in as standby based on the waitlist with a confirmed connection HKG-PER?

Fred

Yes, potential joy from the look of it. Worth a shot

The time around Chinese New Year is a fun time for CX reservations :rolleyes:

Son#1 is in Tokyo today 30 Jan with ticket issued in PER
holds 31 Jan CX 509 to HKG w/l and CX 171 to PER confirmed
holds 04 Feb same flights confirmed through to PER.

Interestingly enough CX agents in Tokyo are saying there is no availability on 31 Jan CX509 even though when looked at on Expert Flyer as NRT-HKG it shows (really) wide open. When viewed as NRT-HKG-PER no availability either flight.

The local TA is trying to find out what the real issue is.

Any thoughts?

Fred

From KVS - looks full in all classes

[KVS Availability Tool 3.3.4/Platinum - Sabre: ITN/UK-ASB]

TYO Tokyo Metro JP = HND NRT
HKG Hong Kong Int'l HK [VHHH]
SAT 31 Jan 2009

Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- -----------------------------------------
CX 501 NRT 10:40 HKG 15:05 330 0 J0 C0 D0 I0 Y0 B0 H0 K0 M0 L0 V0 S0 N0 Q0
CX 509 NRT 09:15 HKG 13:25 773 0 J0 C0 D0 I0 Y0 B0 H0 K0 M0 L0 V0 S0 N0 Q0

interesting, the first time I'm seeing the following in my itinerary online cx.com (under the Flights 1 and 2 referred to in the quote):
Flight 1 & Flight 2 are married segment. Subsequent cancellations (e.g. cancel part of the married segments, change segment data, change booking class etc) could not be allowed.

interesting, the first time I'm seeing the following in my itinerary online cx.com (under the Flights 1 and 2 referred to in the quote):

Is this a flexible ticket? If you make a change with Flights 1 and 2 still married, will that be allowed?

Is this a flexible ticket? If you make a change with Flights 1 and 2 still married, will that be allowed?

No. If you alter or try to cancel any of the 2 married segments , it will either cause both to cancel, or the message that 'cancellation not allowed by airline'.